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[A Human Becoming]

Even if it came to a vote, you wouldn't get all Democrats to vote for it... let alone moderate Republicans.

I think the CBO score really matters. Maybe not enough to flip a sufficient number of Republicans to pass, but if it's a stark contrast from Ryancare, that helps greatly.

A man can dream.

 

[andycapps]

Some Republican needs to latch onto providing Medicare for all as it's more fiscally reasonable thing to do than the current system. Medicare is cheaper and provides a better service.

 

[Netherscourge]

There's an interview up on CNN somewhere with Donald Trump, from 2000, talking about how much he likes Canada's single-payer HC plan.

Trump might actually go for it.

But that fucking Freedom Caucus doesn't want any HC plan.

Getting Republicans to go against a GoP SuperPac is hard as hell if you don't have another funding source.

 

[Tallshortman]

I don't see how when only 16% of Republicans favor keeping the ACA, while 41% favor medicare for all.

The definition in that poll is so broad Ryan & Trump's horseshit plan that just got shelved could be defined as such. It should have just asked if they were for a medicare like plan for everyone or mention single payer.

 

[The Technomancer]

I think the CBO score really matters. Maybe not enough to flip a sufficient number of Republicans to pass, but if it's a stark contrast from Ryancare, that helps greatly.

A man can dream.

I honestly don't think it does. I support doing this wholeheartedly to get people used to the concept, but I think we have more than enough evidence that we can't expect rational action along certain axis from a large chunk of the population, our politicians included

 

[BronsonLee]

This screams 'put it on the record so we can use it as ammo when they reject it out of hand'

 

[Zubz]

Bernie isn't stupid. He knows this won't pass.

He's only introducing it as a strategic move since the GOP blundered on the health bill.

He's playing chess not checkers.

The ACA has gaps and this will help get it back in the public consciousness.

Yup. Even if politicians won't let it get traction, it'll definitely plant a seed for the public to support it or a plan like it down the road.

 

[guek]

This screams 'put it on the record so we can use it as ammo when they reject it out of hand'

You say that like it's a bad thing

 

[metalslimer]

I would be willing to sacrifice political capital again to get a better solution passed if I wasn't sure Republicans could immediately repeal it

 

[A Link to the Past]

The Freedom Caucus are a bunch of far-right extremist Republicans, right?

If so, it seems that everything that's happening right now is really good wrt killing off extremism in the party.

 

[Henchmen21]

This screams 'put it on the record so we can use it as ammo when they reject it out of hand'

Maybe to you. Or maybe Bernie actually gives a shit about the people in this country

Honestly, the cynicism in this thread. The fact that Bernie has been trying for UHC for years might mean he actually wants it and is not trying to score "political points" like so many of the corrupt POS we've had running this country.

 

[BronsonLee]

You say that like it's a bad thing

Oh it ain't a bad thing, but I'm pretty sure Bernie knows the deal

Maybe to you. Or maybe Bernie actually gives a shit about the people in this country

Honestly, the cynicism in this thread. The fact that Bernie has been trying for UHC for years might mean he actually wants it and is not trying to score "political points" like so many of the corrupt POS we've had running this country.

dude they can't even agree on their own fucking plan

 

[TurnipFritters]

There's an interview up on CNN somewhere with Donald Trump, from 2000, talking about how much he likes Canada's single-payer HC plan.

Trump might actually go for it.

But that fucking Freedom Caucus doesn't want any HC plan.

Getting Republicans to go against a GoP SuperPac is hard as hell if you don't have another funding source.

Trump is a narcissist who will say and do whatever he thinks makes him look good. It's theoretically possible one could harness that and actually do good things, but it's like, ok, have you ever seen a movie, or played a game, or whatever, where the villain plans to summon some kind of elder god/demon/whatever and bind it to their will, but then when the elder god/demon/whatever actually shows up it kills the villain outright? I feel like that's sort of a cautionary tale for this.

Maybe to you. Or maybe Bernie actually gives a shit about the people in this country

Honestly, the cynicism in this thread. The fact that Bernie has been trying for UHC for years might mean he actually wants it and is not trying to score "political points" like so many of the corrupt POS we've had running this country.

"He actually wants this" and "He is trying to score political points" are not mutually exclusive ideas.

 

[Koomaster]

This man is insufferable.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

I would be willing to sacrifice political capital again to get a better solution passed if I wasn't sure Republicans could immediately repeal it

Isn't that what we have now? The amount uninsured and angry constituents are enough as swords of Damocles to keep it even with a GOP majority.

The repeal chant really lost its teeth.

 

[sphagnum]

This man is insufferable.

What is insufferable about putting forth a UHC plan?

 

[whyamihere]

It doesn't matter if it won't pass, that's not the point.

However, the CBO score will really matter when there is unified Democratic control of government. It will be in the details.

Isn't that what we have now? The amount uninsured and angry constituents are enough as swords of Damocles to keep it even with a GOP majority.

The repeal chant really lost its teeth.

Yes that was the idea behind Obamacare.

 

[old manatee]

This screams 'put it on the record so we can use it as ammo when they reject it out of hand'

Sounds good to me.

 

[kirblar]

What is insufferable about putting forth a UHC plan?

That's not a UHC plan. It's a single-payer plan.

UHC is achievable. Single-payer is not.

 

[whyamihere]

That's not a UHC plan. It's a single-payer plan.

UHC is achievable. Single-payer is not.

Well, single-payer is achievable (anything is achievable) but it would be such a gigantic shock to the medical industry that I'm not how those first few years would go.

A system like the UK's is probably more realistic than, say, Canada's.

 

[sphagnum]

That's not a UHC plan. It's a single-payer plan.

UHC is achievable. Single-payer is not.

You know what I mean. And his single player plan aims to be UHC.

It won't go through, it's just posturing, but I don't know what's insufferable about that.

 

[Crimson_Gold]

Doesn't hurt to put it out there, but please make sure it is crafted in a way that won't backfire when it is reviewed.

 

[Bluenoser]

Surely Bernie understands that the reason healthcare is universally accessible in Canada is because the Government runs the healthcare system, unlike the US where hospitals and medical practices are run like businesses.

 

[Ponn]

The people who continue to ask for Medicare for all as a Single Payer system who don't even know how Medicare works is amazing. Medicare would have to be completely overhauled for it to be a single payer system and it also wouldn't get rid of for profit insurance companies as a large chunk of people would have to opt for Medicare Advantage plans through private insurance companies to fulfill their needs. Maybe a nice start but as someone coming off the ACA market place and going to medicare next month for disability my premium has actually tripled.

 

[whyamihere]

Surely Bernie understands that the reason healthcare is universally accessible in Canada is because the Government runs the healthcare system, unlike the US where hospitals and medical practices are run like businesses.

That's why a Canadian system, at this point in time, is most likely unachievable. But that's okay. There are other hybrid systems that the US can model off of.

 

[bplewis24]

This man is insufferable.

Yeah, fuck Bernie for doing the right thing! We don't need any of that around here!

/s

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

Surely Bernie understands that the reason healthcare is universally accessible in Canada is because the Government runs the healthcare system, unlike the US where hospitals and medical practices are run like businesses.

This is probably the largest hurdle for single payer. Not to mention the provider/insurance industry is a huge job provider and especially in rural areas where they are the biggest provider of good paying jobs. A quick shock and even transition to a single payer system could very well crash the industry and economy.

 

[whyamihere]

Hmm. NHS Wales does have the best logo of the four.

 

[kirblar]

Well, single-payer is achievable (anything is achievable) but it would be such a gigantic shock to the medical industry that I'm not how those first few years would go.

A system like the UK's is probably more realistic than, say, Canada's.

Few years? It'd be a decade+ of shockwaves. Mass layoffs, businesses downsizing/closing, having to create an entire gigantic organization from scratch inside the government? It's completely undoable without immediately giving the GOP the reigns in two years (and with actual good reason, unlike w/ Obamacare.)

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

I think I prefer the English NHS logo there but I also like plain hamburgers with just meat and bun so my tastes are insufferably boring.

That's why a Canadian system, at this point in time, is most likely unachievable. But that's okay. There are other hybrid systems that the US can model off of.

Wait Canada's hospitals are privately operated, which is closer to the US. I think you're confusing it for the NHS, which has public hospitals and their employees are public sector. Unless I'm confusing Canada and the UK's systems, I would think Canada's would be more achievable because it would be paying for the private services like we do with Medicare instead of nationalizing healthcare facilities.

 

[Boney]

I appreciate the effort.
I'm torn on how much effort I want put into actually writing this. On the one hand, there's not much point in putting a ton of development work into something that's never going to pass. On the other hand this is Bernie's chance to show me that there's literally anything of substance inside him

You keep dissing this same narrative with a cloak of naivety, despite the numerous times you've been answered your rethorical not-so-subtle questions on "what has this old coot ever done".

I realize the futility of bringing this up, so I'm not going to waste my time on addressing the arrogance or the stupidity of the accusation, but I still thought it was worth it to bring it up.

 

[whyamihere]

I think I prefer the English NHS logo there but I also like plain hamburgers with just meat and bun so my tastes are insufferably boring.

Wait Canada's hospitals are privately operated, which is closer to the US. I think you're confusing it for the NHS, which has public hospitals and their employees are public sector. Unless I'm confusing Canada and the UK's systems, I would think Canada's would be more achievable because it would be paying for the private services like we do with Medicare instead of nationalizing healthcare facilities.

I thought the opposite? Maybe I'm wrong. The one where hospitals are privately owned. That one.

 

[kirblar]

You keep dissing this same narrative with a cloak of naivety, despite the numerous times you've been answered your rethorical not-so-subtle questions on "what has this old coot ever done".

I realize the futility of bringing this up, so I'm not going to waste my time on addressing the arrogance or the stupidity of the accusation, but I still thought it was worth it to bring it up.

The same narrative keeps coming about Bernie because Bernie, over the past two years, has shown himself to be unable to discuss policy details in any way shape or form. When he talks about stuff, it takes the form of angry invectives and blame placed at the feet of a scapegoat.

 

[old manatee]

The same narrative keeps coming about Bernie because Bernie, over the past two years, has shown himself to be unable to discuss policy details in any way shape or form. When he talks about stuff, it takes the form of angry invectives and blame placed at the feet of a scapegoat.

I don't see any of that in the op.

 

[kirblar]

I don't see any of that in the op.

You'd see it if you watched his rallies, debate appearances, and his campaign's proposals over the past two years.

When you are trying to increase coverage, not disrupting coverage to those who have it is incredibly important. When 65% of people get insurance through their jobs, that's one hell of a backlash if you screw it up. Obamacare has successfully weathered the storm because it avoided doing that for the vast majority of people.

edit: it's 56%, I mixed up the numbers in my head.

 

[neurosisxeno]

When 65% of people get insurance through their jobs, that's one hell of a backlash if you screw it up.

Yes businesses would hate not having to deal with providing health insurance plans to all of their employees.

 

[pigeon]

Yes businesses would hate not having to deal with providing health insurance plans to all of their employees.

They'd hate having to replace that payment in kind, heavily subsidized by the federal government, with actual wages.

 

[kirblar]

Yes businesses would hate not having to deal with providing health insurance plans to all of their employees.

The backlash is from the voters, not the businesses. Eventually getting health insurance set up like Car Insurance is a mass net gain for businesses, but people freak the F out at change. (see: 2010.)

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Shoot your shot.

 

[VendettaRed07]

The republicans just displayed to the world they don't know what the fuck they are doing and have no idea how to fix healthcare or make it more affordable for Americans

This is a good move for Bernie and democrats should just keep hammering away at how they actually have a plan while republicans haven't got shit

 

[neurosisxeno]

The backlash is from the voters, not the businesses. Eventually getting health insurance set up like Car Insurance is a mass net gain for businesses, but people freak the F out at change. (see: 2010.)

While that's true, I think Bernie has done a good job explaining his goals over the past few months and by and large the support for a system like Medicare For All is in fact there. Just needs to be pushed the right way.

 

[Boney]

The same narrative keeps coming about Bernie because Bernie, over the past two years, has shown himself to be unable to discuss policy details in any way shape or form. When he talks about stuff, it takes the form of angry invectives and blame placed at the feet of a scapegoat.

Because public speeches have never been technical in nature. in fact, at the very least him not being tone deaf and moving the conversation towards actual policies that matter like health care reform, college tuition and campaign finance reform puts him, comparatively speaking, in a much better position than most other politicians.

Being the Senator known for passing the most amendments ever should at the very least constitute some proof of not being a Barbie that cruises on his good looks alone.

 

[bebop242]

Love this move.

 

[kame-sennin]

Trump is a narcissist who will say and do whatever he thinks makes him look good. It's theoretically possible one could harness that and actually do good things, but it's like, ok, have you ever seen a movie, or played a game, or whatever, where the villain plans to summon some kind of elder god/demon/whatever and bind it to their will, but then when the elder god/demon/whatever actually shows up it kills the villain outright? I feel like that's sort of a cautionary tale for this.

I can see that.

You know what I mean. And his single player plan aims to be UHC.

It won't go through, it's just posturing, but I don't know what's insufferable about that.

Because it would reveal that many democrats are also against single-payer because they work for the insurance and pharma companies.

The same narrative keeps coming about Bernie because Bernie, over the past two years, has shown himself to be unable to discuss policy details in any way shape or form. When he talks about stuff, it takes the form of angry invectives and blame placed at the feet of a scapegoat.

Who does he scapegoat?

 

[ZOONAMI]

Maybe Trump will listen to Bernie, because, I dunno.

We're living in some sort of alternate reality.

Would be hilarious if UHC goes through under total GOP controlled government.

 

[Rentahamster]

Who does he scapegoat?

Those poor souls on Wall Street, woe is them.

 

[Henchmen21]

Maybe Trump will listen to Bernie, because, I dunno.

We're living in some sort of alternate reality.

Would be hilarious if UHC goes through under total GOP controlled government.

It would signal the end of the Democratic party

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Too many Republicans envision masses of Black and Brown people getting "free shit" from the "gubment" and it'll always taint their viewpoint of national health care.

This is another example of White supremacy hurting White people.

 

[pigeon]

It would signal the end of the Democratic party

You realize the Democrats would be the ones passing it, right

 

[a very cute dog]

Godspeed, Bernard, godspeed. Hopefully this will reinforce the need for UHC in the public consciousness.