Discotheque
Banned
Nah. Have it be bucky. And then get cap defending his best friend looking like a dick again.
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Spider-Man Homecoming - Official Trailer #2
- Thread starter Theorry
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Nah. Have it be bucky. And then get cap defending his best friend looking like a dick again.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I'd say that'd be a really, really presumptive conclusion to arrive at, and also maybe indicative of how little importance they assign to anything that isn't pure plot. But again, that's on them. That's not really on the commercial.
It's this weird roundabout way to essentially brag that you're smarter than the movie you haven't watched yet and don't really know anything about beyond the 2 minutes of out-of-context noise & imagery comprising the commercial.
I don't blame someone for seeing a trailer that hits very basic plot beats and aesthetically doesn't appeal to them, or the promise of the story that contains those beats not being appealing. That makes sense. But to complain that those beats are the story entire, and that it's now not worth seeing because all the possible value that story could have ever held is now utterly spent?
Nah. Bullshit.
Especially considering that it appears, for the most part, people talk that shit, see the movie anyway, and never actually complain about all the stuff the trailer ruined for them, because they're too busy discussing all the (much more consequential) stuff that never made a marketing campaign at all. Or even funnier, they waste a whole bunch of time complaining that stuff that was in the marketing wasn't in the film!
MugiwaraCole
Member
I mean, he didn't look like a dick the first time. He was right. *shrug*
Do y'all think we'll see even an image of Uncle Ben in this? Like maybe on a nightstand in Peter and Aunt May's crib or some shit?
Tony killed Uncle Ben so he could get with Aunt May.
Peter finds out the secret in the sequel and we have a R rated Spider-Man film.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Not really? Honestly, when I'm watching the movie, I'm paying attention to the movie. I'm not really trying to go out of my way to recall all the bullshit I saw in the marketing, nor am I looking for gaps in the story to pre-emptively plug in that marketing.
Besides which, being familiar with marketing - I'm pretty used to the notion the commercials are going to contain shit that comes from early cuts of the movie, and even stuff created specifically FOR the marketing. Which is another reason I'm not bringing that shit into the theater with me if I can help it.
I remember seeing TDK for the first time and immediately figuring Gordon wasn't dead if, for no other reason, because that shot of him breaking the Batsignal hadn't happened yet.
When you're hyped for a particular movie and really absorb the trailers and other promo material, it's hard not for certain images and scenes not to sink in to the point where you're, deliberately or not, conjuring them up while watching the actual movie. If you see a trailer for a movie you're looking forward to and there's a part where you're like "That shit looks cool", it's hard to forget about that cool-looking shit during the actual movie. It is, after all, part of the reason you're sitting in the theater in the first place.
When you're hyped for a particular movie and really absorb the trailers and other promo material, it's hard not for certain images and scenes not to sink in to the point where you're, deliberately or not, conjuring them up while watching the actual movie. If you see a trailer for a movie you're looking forward to and there's a part where you're like "That shit looks cool", it's hard to forget about that cool-looking shit during the actual movie. It is, after all, part of the reason you're sitting in the theater in the first place.
The only major time I can remember the marketing affecting my enjoyment of the film is probably Iron Man 3, but that shit was on purpose. They weren't just promoting the film, they were setting up a certain expectation, so they could subvert the fuck out of it.
For some people, it worked and was great. For me, it's difficult to analyze the twist on it's own merits within the movie because I keep coming back to the idea of "We're getting Marvel's Ra's al Ghul!" and...we didn't. And it's hard to get over that.
Otherwise, you're right, trying to take the movie on it's own merits is usually the best way to go.
CrazyShady
Member
It's the only reason I see movies anymore. Just to fill my lists
DeathoftheEndless
Crashing this plane... with no survivors!
If you value the shock factor of movies so much that knowing a few plot points ahead of time ruins the movie for you, then you shouldn't watch trailers. Trailers are spoilers by definition.
Glass Rebel
Member
Achievement Unlocked: I've done questionable things.
You watched every cut of Blade Runner except for the Workprint.
Zeyphersan
Banned
What did you do
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Workprint = Best Cut.
thread whining in a Zelda thread
Mate, have some respect she's nearly 60.
And fine as hell.
I'm positive Uncle Ben will be a Silver Fox to go with Hot AF Aunt May
Closer to 50 than 60.
Really? For me it requires no effort. For example in the BvS trailer I saw Wonder Woman in her costume fighting so when she gets on the plane I know she's not leaving and she's going to join the fight. Things like that are what I'm talking about. It doesn't require preemptively doing anything; your brain just recalls things. However, I guess everyone is different.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Well, not if you've expended the effort prior to entering the theater.
How many times did you watch the BvS trailer, and how many of those times did you watch it for the express purpose of trying to figure out the story before you saw the movie? The "effortlessness" makes sense, then.
But yeah, for people who just have photographic memory and instant, total recall, I got no argument. That's just how it works for 'em.
Even if you never watched the trailer do you seriously think Wonder Woman is going to simply get on a plane and fly away? Why even have the scene if not to show she changes her mind?
It would a waste to have a scene showing Diana getting on a plane and leaving. You know that scene is there for a reason whether you watched the trailer or not.
captainnapalm
Member
Bit late to this one, but I have to say I was disappointed with the CGI here. Obvious animated Spidey is obvious. I don't remember this being a big issue in past Spider-man movies outside of a few moments here and there so it's a bit weird.
I'm not someone who complains about excessive CGI in these movies because I think they're an essential tool for really capturing the look and feel of the comics, but it has to be done believably.
Otherwise it looks fine. The trailer does a feel a bit like a fast forward through the movie, but I'm sure there's a lot more going on.
I'm not someone who complains about excessive CGI in these movies because I think they're an essential tool for really capturing the look and feel of the comics, but it has to be done believably.
Otherwise it looks fine. The trailer does a feel a bit like a fast forward through the movie, but I'm sure there's a lot more going on.
Zeyphersan
Banned
Oh that's not so bad
If you are judging this from your high school memories, your opinions are invalid
People look older when you are younger.
I am judging things from the perspective of a guy in his mid thirties who has taught high school in recent years, and therefore sees a lot of kids actually that age. One of my high schools was the home school for an OHL team (Canadian semi-pro junior hockey team for mainly 16-21 year olds). Those kids tend to be big guys (some of the defense players are 6'4 or so and well over 200lbs), but you can still tell that they are teenagers.
Joe Manganiello was 25-26 and looked old for his age. Compare that to Tony Revolori (Flash in homecoming) who was about 20 when Homecoming was filmed, but can easily pass for a 17 year old.
The Playstation king trailer made me like it.
What is this even from?
Yeah I knew it was the suit from the Sony game, but I've never seen this little snippet from the game. They haven't showed much material from the game at all.
Suit looks so good here.
Callibretto
Member
It's cg and from playstation commercial where there's a king going on adventure alongside spiderman, aloy, Kratos etc.
Its not clip from the game
faceless007
Member
I can only speak for myself but it really doesn't take the obsessive hardcore detective mode you're trying to portray it as for some reason, and I think your attempts to mind-read the people you're ostensibly discussing this with come off as awfully condescending just to avoid the conclusion that maybe some of these films really are just that derivative. To illustrate how off-base your assumptions are, I watched the trailer exactly once, when it aired during a commercial break last night, while also glancing at my laptop, I am not a fan of comic book movies or Hollywood tentpole movies generally, I have never read a Marvel comic book, I haven't seen any of the Marvel movies released in the last 3 years, I will not see this movie in theaters, and I will likely never see it anywhere (maybe if I happen to be on an airplane and it's showing). My level of investment in thing is about as close to 0 as I can get without consciously ignoring thing.
Despite that, I was easily able to mentally piece together some idea of how the strands of how the origin story will play out, what the major turning points will be in order, what story beats will be used to propel the story forward and how, and of course what the third-act villain reveal and final confrontation will look like and where. Anyone who has a basic understanding of the basic structure that most Hollywood tentpole screenplays slavishly subscribe to (especially when it comes to origin stories for some reason), how they usually use increasingly elaborate set pieces to create turning points, and admittedly, the already well-trodden origin story of Spider-Man, should be able to do the same. It was not difficult, I barely thought of any of it after it finished (the show came back on), and it did not require multiple viewings.
Of course I can't know for sure if any of my assumptions are correct; maybe Michael Keaton isn't the real final villain but just a decoy in the second act to make room for the real Big Bad in the third (other films have certainly pulled this one); or maybe the boat sequence isn't actually the second-act obstacle that prompts Peter to reconsider his purpose and Iron Man is referencing some other major event so far unseen. And of course I don't know everything; I'm sure Aunt May has some major role to play if not a hostage to be rescued but she's only seen briefly in the trailer; and I don't know much about how the first-act origin plays out.
But "It gave away the whole story" doesn't literally mean that all the connective tissue and minor scenes are knowable; it means that this trailer makes it easy to piece together a basic skeleton of how the plot will probably go which is by no means required or even common for trailers to do, and which thereby gives away that there is probably nothing unconventional or surprising about the story of this film. By my recollection, even trailers that seem to give away a lot of scenes don't always make it so obvious the order that they ultimately appear in; the trailer for Logan IIRC is mostly a montage of scenes intended to evoke the tone and genre of the film but it doesn't give any clear sense of how the plot will unfold (did it even include X23?).
Now maybe that approach isn't appropriate for every film, and of course, this being an origin story of a well-understood character being adapted for yet the third time in recent cinematic history, there might be little room to introduce anything even remotely original story-wise, and maybe some of the disappointment being expressed reflects some of that. As I'm not the target audience for the film and can't imagine being impressed by any version of the trailer one could cut, I can't speak to what those who would be in the audience would likely find more impressive. Maybe there are people who call themselves fans of this property who really do act in the way you describe (I guess there are people who actually do it on YouTube so that shouldn't be surprising).
But it's a mistake, and more than a little presumptuous, to conflate the excitability and apparent fervor (which I don't share) that outspoken fans might have when deconstructing trailers this way, with the mental difficulty and effort required to do so. Marketing products aren't inscrutable puzzle boxes. They're in fact designed to be accessible and digestible. So, again speaking for myself, I'm not disappointed at how much the trailer showed and leaving so little left to surprise. I'm disappointed that the marketing machine thinks so little of its audience that it still finds it necessary to do so without trying to be even slightly challenging.
CadetMahoney
Member
kek
His homemade costume from before Tony's Civil War upgrade. It bears a resemblance, but that's about it.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
That they're derivative is part of the point though. I'm not denying that they're derivative. I'm suggesting that being derivative is pretty much a given at this point, so maybe choosing (and it's always a choice) to consume marketing as some sort of mystery to unravel before watching the movie is even more a counterproductive and presumptive waste than it already is, because the nature of these things means any pursuit of surprise (again, as if surprise is the single sole benefit of storytelling) is probably going to be a disappointing, if not fruitless one. And if you're looking to preserve surprise as the key aspect of your hypothetical future experience, why are you seeking out trailers for the movie you already know you're gonna watch in the first place?
Again, most people can and do understand this already. Before they ever click play on the second trailer for the 6th Spider-Man movie that is also the 16th movie in the continuous Marvel Cinematic Universe.
It's also fairly common for trailers to reveal the basic skeleton of the plot in their trailers. Teasers tend to skimp on those sorts of details, but trailers themselves will often provide some sense of the story thrust because audiences want to know what kind of story they're getting.
But you're also, if I'm reading you correctly, seeing the commercial as first and foremost a puzzle to be solved? You're Solving for X here, which is what I'm arguing leads to loads of people presumptively whining that they had "the whole movie spoiled" when that almost never, ever happens (and even when it does, it doesn't just based on the sheer amount of footage still unseen). I didn't say it was hard (although people acting like sussing out very basic plot arcs for blockbuster films is a remarkable achievement does frequently happen), I said it's an almost always self-defeating choice in focus on the part of people who treat commercials like games they have to beat before they watch the movie, and then complain that the experience they have yet to actually have is definitely, somehow, ruined for them, precisely because of their decisions.
"Well, they showed the whole movie" is an almost-always-empty, often-baseless, typically presumptious, easy knee-jerk criticism that tends to say not much more than "I noticed basic plot beats in this commercial."
Well, yeah. But like I said:
Story beats ain't a story.
Plot synopsis ain't a movie.
Metronome click ain't a song.
Table of contents ain't a book.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Jesus christ Bobby is doing more acrobatics than Spidey himself to justify a spoilery trailer.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
BronsonLee
Member
You know, I've never seen a single scene of Blade Runner.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
It's a pretty good movie
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Nah.
Even if I did - shit worked, didn't it?
$90 mil budget
$429mil worldwide
Academy Award nominee Tom Hanks
In 2000, it appears a lot of moviegoers weren't too fussed about the idea that the plot was revealed in the trailer, because about $429 million worth of people decided HOW something happens is more important than WHAT happened.
I was taking bullets for a podcast!
Even if I did - shit worked, didn't it?
$90 mil budget
$429mil worldwide
Academy Award nominee Tom Hanks
In 2000, it appears a lot of moviegoers weren't too fussed about the idea that the plot was revealed in the trailer, because about $429 million worth of people decided HOW something happens is more important than WHAT happened.
I was taking bullets for a podcast!
Spoilery trailer is an oxymoron. If you are sensitive to your experience being spoiled by 2 minutes of loosely arranged footage you probably shouldn't be watching exactly that.
It's a great cure for insomnia.
It's a great cure for insomnia.
Pretty decent movie too if you don't fall asleep during the first hour.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Oh hey, just occurred to me:
I thought the trailer was okay. I'm not much for Tony being Spidey's main inspiration in this version of Spidey, but overheated superhot superhate of Tony aside, it makes sense for this version of Spidey (even though he really should be able to make a suit better than Starks but HEY WHATEVER) and I'm cool with seeing how it plays out.
I think whatever we're seeing in this trailer that's focused largely on the angst & disappointments of young Peter Parker is okay, but I feel like the stuff that isn't in the trailer, the stuff that deals with the high-school coming of age shit: THAT'S what's gonna make or break this film. If they really did try to squeeze a John Hughes comedy from 1985 into this 2017 superhero flick and managed to nail that, I'll be happy.
We're not really seeing any hints of that, just the basic Superhero beats. But those beats seem to be done decently, at least.
I thought the trailer was okay. I'm not much for Tony being Spidey's main inspiration in this version of Spidey, but overheated superhot superhate of Tony aside, it makes sense for this version of Spidey (even though he really should be able to make a suit better than Starks but HEY WHATEVER) and I'm cool with seeing how it plays out.
I think whatever we're seeing in this trailer that's focused largely on the angst & disappointments of young Peter Parker is okay, but I feel like the stuff that isn't in the trailer, the stuff that deals with the high-school coming of age shit: THAT'S what's gonna make or break this film. If they really did try to squeeze a John Hughes comedy from 1985 into this 2017 superhero flick and managed to nail that, I'll be happy.
We're not really seeing any hints of that, just the basic Superhero beats. But those beats seem to be done decently, at least.
BronsonLee
Member
I hope Peter is the one who makes the wingsuit but then it fails and then Tony has to make him a better one cause he's better
joking aside, that clip where the spider drone flies away and he's like "whoa" rather annoys me. are there going to be several moments in the movie where some surprise happens with his suit and Spidey is just dumbfounded?
BronsonLee
Member
They're all cameras, Tony really wants him to wear the suit at home for some reason
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
If there are any major leaks for TLJ, you gonna read 'em? I think I'm staying away this time.
Yeah, this annoys me too. I don't want Spidey going "woah" at every aspect of his tech, I want him being like "Check out this shit I did".
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I'll probably avoid em, but if I trip over one or two, it won't be that big a deal.
I missed almost everything about Rogue One, actually.
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