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[VlaudTheImpaler]

Well, on the one hand, fucking finally. On the other, do I really want to congratulate anyone for finally accomplishing in 2017 what I expected to happen in 2006? (Referring to the AF).

I mean, this is kinda disingenuous coming from you no? Considering how far behind a whole lot of Japanese devs are in terms of graphical techniques and implementations on PC yet you still love them, help them, praise them when they make steps in the right direction and encourage them to do better in the future. It's one of the many things I admire about you.

I mean, isn't that what we should be doing here or anywhere we see anyone in the industry taking steps in the direction that they should?

I guess I'm just a fan of giving praise where praise is due regardless of my bias.

 

[Freeman76]

So many experts in this thread without a fucking clue what they are talking about.

 

[wesleyshark]

So does this console improve x360 games quite a bit?

Yes

 

[Pinky]

Nice hardware, REALLY nice hardware - but that's only half the battle. I can't realistically imagine Microsoft have been sitting on a gang of interesting exclusives though. Gotta have stuff to play on the damn thing.

E3 will be interesting.

 

[marrec]

4K 30 seems okay. 1440p 60 seems possible too. I expect many games won't reach those targets however just like always

Yep, expect dynamic resolutions and frame rates and maybe some custom upscaling solution. I don't even expect 4k 30fps without upscaling.

 

[Kibbles]

Wait, I guess the GPU improvements don't reach the targeted 6TFlops then?
The memory increase is very much welcome, though. Don't know why Sony thought keeping the same 8GB was a good idea.

Where do you get that? Richard says they stuck to their 6TF mark in his video.

 

[BaasRed]

It would be cool if it came with a Xbox Elite controller bundle (maybe with Halo or some other shooter like rainbow siege?)

 

[Thursday War]

sounds good

now let's see some games

 

[Tagyhag]

I want a pc quality gaming experience on a console... So it's perfect

It depends on what you want out of PC gaming.

If it's 60fps in every single game then this probably won't be it.

 

[Marmelade]

Any chance Sony can take a page or two from this announcement and start forcing downsampling/texture filtering on a system level through OS updates?

That's what I'm wondering about too

 

[dreamfall]

So does this console improve x360 games quite a bit?

Red dead remaster confirmed?

We can dream!

Depending on the performance differences of Red Dead Redemption 2 before a PC port, I'll pick up one of these mid-gen machines.

 

[Resistance100]

It's got the power. Now needs the price and the games or it's all for nothing

 

[Cpt_Cabal]

I want to know how the performance is when all the cars start driving. The GPU use will go higher and framerate will then go below 60.

How about you read the article instead of going off a solitary picture.

I mean, COME ON!

 

[Markoman]

Native 4K at 60 is what next gen should be shooting for and if that's what this claims to be then that's what it claims to be.

My rig can barely get 30 at native 4K resolutions and it isn't a slouch and costs a good deal more than this thin will.

No it shouldn't. Better physics, better assets, better AI, better FX.... Just focussing on resolution and framerate is pointless.

 

[pastrami]

Unless we know, in overall CPU workload percentage during rendering, how much CPU workload is saved by having draw calls processed by dedicated hardware outside the CPU, it's seems like an adjective battle where no one is right.

What really matters is it we'll see 30fps games that are CPU limited on Xbox One/PS4/PS4Pro running at 60fps on the Scorpio.

 

[MaulerX]

Technically, Jaguars can't hit 2.3 GHz. There is probably some silicon changes.

Pretty much this. My take is that this is some serious hardware they're putting together. All in all very impressed with what they've accomplished with Scorpio and very well thought out.

 

[The Salt Life]

Exactly. They are already starting damage control because they are obviously nervous about the price.

What damage control?
It's a premium console that will be the most powerful on the market no questions asked. It's not just a 'slightly better pro's as some are saying so yeah, $499 sounds reasonable to people who would never buy a PC.

 

[sanstesy]

Is it as strong as the Nintendo Switch?

 

[Fardeen]

this thing is a beast suddenly the scorpio is king

 

[Kaako]

SenjutsuSage fucking overslept on the reveal trying to stay up didn't he? Haha. Ryse & shine!

 

[Chobel]

Guys & Gals, since the GPU is clocked at a ridiculous rate, this is very good isn't it, as the entire GPU benefits from this and it's not just benefiting from a higher CU count for example?

Or am I completely off the mark?

Yes, higher clocks is better than higher CU assuming same TF number. Higher clock means more vertices can be processed (at vertex shader stage).

 

[Wishmaster92]

Is the gpu stronger than a 1070?

No.
The 1070 is $400-450 GPU..

Lol no

From what I've seen so far, there is some evidence that Scorpio's true 4K performance could pose a challenge to the likes of Nvidia's GTX 1070 and AMD's Fury X-class hardware. I've seen Microsoft's new console running a Forza Motorsport 6-level experience locked to 4K60 on the equivalent to PC's ultra settings - cranking up the quality presets to obscene levels was one of the first things developer Turn 10 did when confronted with the sheer amount of headroom it had left after a straight Xbox One port. Out of interest, we tested Forza 6 Apex with similar settings at 4K on GTX 1060, 1070 and 1080. Frames were dropped on GTX 1060 (and a lot of them when wet weather conditions kicked in), while GTX 1070 held firm with only the most intense wet weather conditions causing performance dips. Only GTX 1080 held completely solid in all test cases. It's only one data point, and the extent to which the code is comparable at all is debatable, but it certainly doesn't harm Scorpio's credentials: Forza 6 Apex received plenty of praise for the quality of its PC port.

So which is it?

 

[burgerdog]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...-five-ways-your-existing-games-will-be-better

Improved texture filtering sounds interesting:

I think I'll buy a scorpio just for this. Mandatory 16xAF should be applauded.

 

[Outrun]

I've not read all 17 pages of this thread, but am I the only one who thought DF (Leadbetter) was a little too enthusiastic about this reveal?

I mean, I love new hardware, and who doesn't like tech specs, but this particular coverage just seems overly glowing. I'm sure it was a condition of their privileged access, but I'm still taking all this with a large dose of salt.

Well firstly, let's see if he talking out of his ass, or lying.

If not, he has reason to be enthusiastic.

 

[enemy2k]

High res SoC image from Major Nelsons Blog. https://majornelson.com/2017/04/06/project-scorpio-update/

 

[PanicFreak]

The difference this time is they will still have the Xbox One S which will do a good enough job at running all the new releases that come out for the Xbox brand and will be very reasonably priced. May even see an Xbox Scorpio mini released as a refresh and to keep the styling the same.

Then the Scorpio is the premium console for core gamers who want the best gaming experience. The market has been changing over the past few years with more focus on core gamers, premium hardware and e-sports. Rather than motion control, budget hardware and casual market.

Core gamers who what the best performance are playing on their PCs. This is a "premium" mass market device. Hardware is designed with a price point in mind and it would be baffling if, after that series of events, they settled on $499 for the base unit.

 

[LordOcidax]

Also jaguar is 28nm...this is 16 finfet...this is a customized silicons with the underpinnings of jaguar...like they said

PS4Pro...

 

[wesleyshark]

I think I'll buy a scorpio just for this. Mandatory 16xAF should be applauded.

It's a beautiful thing

 

[00ich]

They added the new DX12 hardware piece which allows them to do that. The CPU is custom @ 2.3ghz and rather than handling those draw calls itself, it sends it to the new processor that does it allowing the CPU to have resources go elsewhere.

Where does the new processor come from? All I understood is that they extended the x64 instruction set to accept some Direct3D 12 commands as native instructions.
Which the CPU then translate into Opcodes, the actual tiny CPU instructions, as it does with every x64 instruction.

 

[AirPowerFTW]

The specs are there for you to react for yourself. Let a tech-man be excited about tech.
It's not like the specs are bad and the are saying "this is amazing really" (Like the XB1 reveal was...)

Well that's kinda my point, the specs aren't mind blowing, they're iterative at best, especially considering the late 2017 release date.

And there IS some oddness, for instance the assertion about custom hardware allowing DX12 to run with much reduced CPU load. Sounds good in theory, but so did the 'power of the cloud' or Kinect's fidelity or *insert Microsoft broken promise here*. I just would have thought DF would have tempered their enthusiasm for something that is so far only a promise. Normally Richard is excited about new tech, but also critical where applicable - this (unprecedented) reveal lacked the latter completely and just doesn't seem to sit right.

 

[Formosa]

Is the Scorpio more powerful than the PRO? Yes, slightly.
Will the games on Scorpio run and look better than the PRO? Probably not.

 

[Trago]

I am curious to how the scorpio is going to use Freesync because the HDMI 2.1 is not on 2017 4k tv's but will probably be in the 2018 4k tv's. The HDMI 2.1 spec is still being implemented by tv manufacturers.

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/should-i-buy-tv-now-or-wait-hdmi-21#o5XmlvpEUk4DgfJd.97

My guess is that since this console is releasing at the end of the year, it'll give TV manufactures a chance to highlight the consoles as a "must buy" thing to justify the use of these extra new features.

Hell, I hope the PS5 supports variable refresh.

 

[nubbe]

Scorpio sound really hype
Seem much more like a new gen thanks to all the crazy optimizations and customizations
super low latencies could make it a PC killer

 

[EmiPrime]

$500 would mean about £500 in the UK. It would be dead on arrival at that price.

That's significantly higher than what the PS3 launched at here.

 

[Milennia]

this won't be running games that run at 900p30 on XB1 at native 4k60.

hte only game mentioned so far is forza which ran at 60fps on og xb1

also 60fps for most games will never ever be a target. next gen will target 4k30 w/ increased complexity

I misread your response, you just said fidelity, could have sworn you said performance as well

It would depend on what people expect out of a generational leap then.
People fully expected 60 fps at the very least standard going into this generation and were sorely mistaken

 

[gofreak]

Someone break this down for me;



Wouldn't this mean a lot more than just 'a custom 2.3ghz' cpu?

'Traditionally' isn't necessarily the baseline you want to compare to. Draw call overhead on console CPUs, and even CPUs in general more recently (post-DX12, Vulkan), isn't what it used to be to start with.The question is how much of a saving it is over a modern console setup without the same, and if it's significant.

I have a little tendency after the MS's presentation of Xbox One's 'custom hardware' and 'special sauce' to wonder how often now the relatively ordinary is being wrapped up as the extraordinary. I don't know if Scorpio is or isn't doing anything particularly extraordinary here.

 

[shandy706]

Is it as strong as a 1060GTX is what i'd be asking.

An OC 1060 is 4.4TF vs Scorpio's 6.0TF

(Note: TF comparisons can be strange when comparing NV vs AMD)

Best to look at the RX 480 and a GTX 980 performance wise. It probably falls in behind a 1070 if you must pick the newest Nvidia GPUs.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

I don't think it'll be $500 they obviously wanna gt more ppl on board $500 does nothing put entice the fanbase they have which is fine but I'm sure they want more

 

[marrec]

So which is it?

It is not as powerful as a 1070. Probably more powerful as the FE 1060.

 

[leeh]

lol people are so sensitive. You can call it "highly customized super special" cores and they'll still be jaguar.

It is Jaguar though, customised or special whatever but its Jaguar, remember recently the customised X1 special for Switch......Heavily customised lol

I just dont think AMD / Nvidia redesign hardware for such things, its massive undertaking, they just use there pre-defined and tested blocks and pull them together IMO.

I bet when the chip images come in the blocks look exactly like Jaguar....

My post brought up the post said it's "just" Jaguar. It's not just jaguar. It's a custom CPU based off Jaguar.

AMD won't customise the arctitechture, it'll be MS.

 

[Buba Big Guns]

Hmmm

Sounds like an even more upgraded pro, which is good, but not for me. If it was steam compatible that'd be amazing and I'd buy right away.

 

[Dlacy13g]

So is it me or did Eurogamer hint that the Scorpio finished box design was potentially on par with the Xbox One S?

 

[wachie]

So which is it?

lol, this sure is a fluff piece from DF.

The 1070 comparison is total whack which is why they end it with a disclaimer.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Why would they keep talking about it being a "premium" console for OCD gamers who need the absolute best experience (my paraphrase) if it's going to cost the same as every console has for the last ten years?

Get ready for $499, boys . . .

Yeah, this is targeted at the enthusiast crowd, which is the crowd everyone knows is willing to pony up the big bucks.

 

[Gitaroo]

I like how Scorpio's hardware doesn't differ much from PS4 Pro but its implementation gives it the 40% advantage. Some very clever engineering there. This also basically confirms that Scorpio can compete with the PS4 Pro on price. Comparable price, 40% more powerful.

Sony will always have an advantage over them when it comes to BOM, less ram and smaller die, no UHD, if they both priced aggressively Sony can always be 70-100 below it, unless MS is willing to take a hit on every unit. IRC Richard said before the ram difference itself is already 38 bucks in BOM cost. Best case scenario they will keep a 50 dollar price gap and take a smaller hit and hope to gain back from software sales.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

High res SoC image from Major Nelsons Blog. https://majornelson.com/2017/04/06/project-scorpio-update/

Is it weird that I get goose pimples when I look at stuff like this?

 

[Detective]

Is the Scorpio more powerful than the PRO? Yes, slightly.
Will the games on Scorpio run and look better than the PRO? Probably not.

The definition of delusional.

 

[HardRojo]

Is it as strong as the Nintendo Switch?

Hopefully it can resist high falls too.

 

[Hoo-doo]

So 399$ then, smart choice. Zen would have been a waste.

 

[SlimySnake]

gpu, uhd Blu ray,fancy for console cooling system and custom chip set. It's not going to be 399 and 499 is wishful thinking. There is a reason they keep using the term ENTHUSIAST when talking about the price point.either way it looks impressive on paper. One good exclusive that I can't play on my PC and I'm in

Your forgetting UHD player will add to the cost
Until we get what MS has it as the price point, no way this comes at $399.99 unless MS making it back with accessories quickly
$449 looks like an OK price, $499 will be a rough price point

Remember Sony can drop Pro -$50, to $349.99
So MS has to keep it balanced, I mean $150 extra to play X1Pro-er on the holidays might not look enticing to the public at large while the PS4Pro looks way cheaper almost "bargain"
Lord help if Sony goes PS4Pro Holiday Bundles at $349.99 or Double pack in for $399.99

UHD add-on was only $15 extra last year when Sony decided not to put it in. It should be lower than that this year. Their Slim has had a UHD and it's sold for $250 last holiday season.

Also, The Pro was effectively $340 a couple of weeks after it came out. I remember target, Amazon and Bestbuy dropping the price to $340 price matching each other before black friday. they wouldnt have done that if they weren't making money off of them. That means Sony still made money off of those $340 sales. Sony should have the Pro down to $299 this holiday season.

I think the main costs come from the main processor chip and i just dont see it being that much bigger than the pro with just 4 extra compute units. the extra cooling system might add some dollars to the overall cost, but we have to remember that the PS4 Pro was priced for 2016. In 2016, these parts are simply going to be cheaper.