Does the scorpio support fp16?
30% perf improvement on the pro sure sounds good and this would further help the scorpio.
Polaris supports it [as well as PS4 Pro]
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Digital Foundry: Xbox Scorpio
- Thread starter LelouchZero
- Start date
Polaris supports it [as well as PS4 Pro]
It's going to be Scorpio.
EVEN IF rockstar makes no improvements to the game for Scorpio and just ports what they have for the pro, it will still run better. But I'm betting we'll see an improved resolution, texture quality/filtering, and/or a better framerate on Scorpio. Going off of rockstars past games, we could also very well see a grass gate situation where the Scorpio has more foliage.
The Scorpio is the stronger system, by a significant margin (better gpu, better cpu, more ram). Games will run/look better on it
Finally some reality. Hype is a powerful drug.
Pretty clear tbh, there's no technical reason why Scorpio shouldn't produce better results in every single multiplatform title...technically speaking...Im sure some game will be close to each other...Much in the same way a number XB1/PS4 are very close to each other even though there's a clear power difference in the PS4's favour...
FlutterPuffs
Member
Scorpio would definitely be the best place for third party games, don't see how it won't.
SolidusDave
Member
Seems pretty good/impressive (if slightly overkill for this gen's games).
I hope this will force Sony to release a PS4pro2 or PS5 sooner than expected so that we can leave that half-assed mess of PS4pro behind us quickly.
I hope this will force Sony to release a PS4pro2 or PS5 sooner than expected so that we can leave that half-assed mess of PS4pro behind us quickly.
potatohead
Member
Half ass apparently means highly successful?
Shit, this upgrade will hold me over for another three years maybe four after purchase... that's fine with me
Edit.. no to mention I think "generations" are a thing of the past.
There is really nothing more or less half assed about the Pro compared to Scorpio.
Had a chance to read all the articles and videos from DF. Super impressed by the details we have so far.
360 BC had been such a huge success story for me, epecially after MS made the engineering and coding investments to get the emulator working so damn well. So many games from my backlog look better because of no screen tearing and faster frames than 360 native, all free. MS didn't have to continue improving it and could left it half assed. So I'm excited that MS is carrying that type of BC momentum forward to Scorpio and improving 360 AND XBOX One games by default. Is anyone as happy about the BC work done on the XBOX One and now the Scorpio as I am? I think it's been such an underrated feature IMO.
360 BC had been such a huge success story for me, epecially after MS made the engineering and coding investments to get the emulator working so damn well. So many games from my backlog look better because of no screen tearing and faster frames than 360 native, all free. MS didn't have to continue improving it and could left it half assed. So I'm excited that MS is carrying that type of BC momentum forward to Scorpio and improving 360 AND XBOX One games by default. Is anyone as happy about the BC work done on the XBOX One and now the Scorpio as I am? I think it's been such an underrated feature IMO.
SolidusDave
Member
A 4K-marketed machine that is not powerful enough to render games in native 4K nor has playback for the only 4K physical movie format is half-assed to me.
Other small things like downsampling on a system level make it also seem more thought through.
Doesn't matter if it's successful (do we even have data on the ratio of slim vs pro?)
Yeah this is the most confusing sentiment I've seen.
Scorpio and PS4 Pro both seem to have followed the same intentions, just separated by time and money.
PS4Standard does have FP16 shader opcodes but does not give much benefit. PS4Pro is the first AMD GPU able to run a double-rate FP16 opcodes so it gives a real benefit. If shaders need to run two identical opcodes and FP16 data precision is enough then PS4Pro can run them simultaneously. PS4 can run the same shader but 2x speed benefit is lost.
If am right it's AMD Vega PC gpu to have a double-rate FP16 feature on PC environment. DigitalFoundry/Microsoft did not say if this is available in Scorpio, time will tell.
(disclaimer: Nvidia has had a double-rate FP16 for few gpu iteration already)
Ploid 3.0
Member
See, if true, this is why we need to wait until scorpio is out and in observer's hands before running with the Scorpio does better than 1070 and 1080 claims. We don't even know if it would do better than RX 480 in the game because the similar situation wasn't benchmarked in controlled testing. Just wait, just like people waited to go to town on testing when it came to Ryzen.
Looked up the first Forza 6 RX 480 ultra setting video. It seems to be running good 60. It could be the wrong game, how many Forza games are on PC?
The Pro can render games in native 4K.
I'm not getting into it about the UHD drive.
hanspampel
Banned
So lets see -
Scorpio CPU is Jaguar not Zen6TF GPU is Polaris not Vega(Jaguar evolved)12Gigs of GDDR5 confirmed(32fp, Sorry OnQ)1TB HDD confirmed(4 for OS, 8 for games)
Plus a ton of other constomizations throughout the hardware
We have no idea what the name or the price is at this point, or what it looks like
Also...
Apparently Scorpio is 'liquid cooled'(it's not, it's just a glorified air cooled system)
Albert Panello is tweeting secret sauce!(nah, he just said it's more than just the numbers, which could mean anything)
And DF went from paid Sony shills to paid MS shills today(they're not, its just fanboy douchebaggery, their article is very informative and fair as always)
All in all, been a great day for popcorn and entertainment on Gaf once again. It's good news though. All of it. Hardware spec reveals are always good news
Uh a great post in here. Nice to read such rare things
I really hate all the fake news written by df
Xbox Scorpio has no 6tflops. No 2.3ghz CPU. No 12gb ram with 326gb/s bandwidth and forza 6 does not run at 4k/60fps with 55 - 70% GPS usage.
Richards opinion doesn't matter at all. The specs are the specs.
SolidusDave
Member
Oh come on, you know what I mean.
Please give me the percentage of all pro-patched games that render in 4K.
Now of only the games that are not just indie 2D sprites or remasters.
Now only of the games in which the 4K mode doesn't have to sacrifice performance for the native 4K.
0%
And regarding the drive. You may ignore it but it's still a valid point when Sony does not ignore movies completely by advertising 4k Netflix for ps4pro etc
ALLseeingEYE
Member
Keeping Jaguar has nothing to do with porting the games actually, X86 architecture is X86. They could literally swap in any X86 CPU which is basically any CPU on the market, and essentially all it would do is make the game's CPU computations run slower or faster (obviously they would still need 8 cores in order to preserve multi-core optimizations).
Keeping Jaguar likely had everything to do with cost, and biggest bang for their buck in system balance. The CPU is fine as it is, a slow CPU with a monster GPU can still let games run up to 60fps, and the beefy GPU allows the visual quality and game resolution to maximize. A beefier CPU would have likely been wasted on most games, especially since consoles never go over 60fps, and generally run at 30fps.
Wishmaster92
Member
Games developed from the ground up for ps4 pro and then scaled down to the original ps4 would help the disparity between the pro and scorpio imo. Sony needs to start doing that, as of now all pro versions are upres ps4 games.
Sad Affleck
Member
The best console for third party, just to be precise.
...so? The Pro came out last year, and is about the best they could do for the time and price, just like the Scorpio is now. The Scorpio would be a more powerful product if released next year, that doesn't make what we are getting in the fall "half-assed" either.
SolidusDave
Member
Then they should have waited instead of announcing a 4k machine that does essentially nothing in 4k.
Half-assed.
My point was that they will hopefully won't wait long to release the next PS4/PS5 that does not have these limitations / can actually do what they position it for.
Ideally with way to incorporate that VR box with HDR while they are at it. ..
We can call the Scorpio half-assed if another console iteration comes out in the year or two following, then? Not getting that comment either.
Specs look good and if MS/Sony leapfrog each other then consumers will never be more than a year or two away from "the most powerful console", if they want one. Developers are going to be pretty pissed, though...so much optimisation.
Edit: Sollidus, you need to understand that machines never catch up with the marketing promises...once we get specs that can almost do native 4K the devs will up the detail and the bar gets reset. Happens every time. If you want 4k with no compromise get a PC.
Sad Affleck
Member
That's not really true. The PS4 Pro was marketed as a machine to play PS4 games at 4K. It very clearly can't pull that off at PS4-level quality and framerates. The Scorpio has the horsepower to play Xbox One games at 4K, at least in theory. In that sense it's true that the PS4 Pro is half-assed and the Scorpio isn't. One machine (supposedly) achieves its goal, the other doesn't.
The Pro is a big upgrade from the PS4, and higher resolution than 1080p is a serious improvement, even if it doesn't generally run at native 4K.
All Scorpio games won't run at native 4K, nor will they have perfect framerates. That doesn't make Scorpio half assed either.
Tell me, if the Pro was coming out next year instead of last year, would you be here calling the Scorpio half assed because it isn't as powerful as the Pro will be?
What are you disappointed in? Regardless of what Scorpio was before the reveal to what it is now the library of games was always going to be the same....
Not all Scorpio games will be native 4K either. That's not an insult to the system.
Going by the one screenshot we have, it does look a bit bad though.
edit:
The image I mentioned. Give it some proper AA and there goes the 66% GPU utilization.
Collingwood, exactly. It's neither a slight difference, nor a massive difference. It's a significant difference, no more, no less.
Deckard Chapel
Banned
All valid points; but will Rockstar actually come forth and say which will be the definitive platform based on "all of the above"?
I don't care about exclusivity regarding DLC - I want to know when RDR2 launches, which console to buy so I can play it to it's utmost potential - since I do not own either a PS4 Pro or an Xbox Scorpio.
I will buy the platform that RDR2 will run the best on as a console game.
Not having the time doesn't stop a lot of Gaffers (I know it didn't stop me
).Umm, no probably not. What publisher ever advertises that a version of their game is inferior?
Have they ever done that? Asking because I legitimately don't know. I'd think that's what DF was for.
Metalingus5150
Member
Rockstar probably won't come out and say it. Scorpio is your best bet on the best console performance.
One of the biggest games in the world is native 4K on pro, there's plenty native 4K titles in pro and some of the techniques used to get to 4K even df say look almost native at times.
cireza
Member
I took the time to read the information and watch the videos, and MS proposal with Scorpio looks very impressive.
If you only look at the raw numbers, there is definitely a lot that you might be missing.
Innovation is pretty much everywhere is this thing, and it looks like you simply can't propose anything better right now (taking into account the constraints that come with a console : size, power consumption, price, cooling etc...)
The gain is real, and comes from other interesting ideas that they implemented, like the Direct3D instructions built-in the GPU, and how they managed to reach the GPU frequency too etc...
I can see a lot of coordination here between very different teams and aspects involved in the creation of a console.
This was the point of view of someone who is not expert at all in the domain.
If you only look at the raw numbers, there is definitely a lot that you might be missing.
Innovation is pretty much everywhere is this thing, and it looks like you simply can't propose anything better right now (taking into account the constraints that come with a console : size, power consumption, price, cooling etc...)
The gain is real, and comes from other interesting ideas that they implemented, like the Direct3D instructions built-in the GPU, and how they managed to reach the GPU frequency too etc...
I can see a lot of coordination here between very different teams and aspects involved in the creation of a console.
This was the point of view of someone who is not expert at all in the domain.
My expectations were 980/980 ti range performance as a high mark. Today I'm hearing GTX 1070. Sure, it was an ideal situation with a very well optimized engine, but it's looking to beat my performance expectations if what I read today ends up proving true.
I expected Zen and Vega, but my performance expectations for that setup was 980/980 Ti in a console box. Scorpio appears to be better than that without the need for either. I'd say that's potentially great news.
I can't believe I somewhat fell for your hype. Now that executives have pretty much lied to your face, how can you be happy about continually eating the bullshit and re-spewing it on here?
I now have the perception that this is weaker than it should be thanks to you, it should be an absolute killer machine that would no question be able to deliver not only existing games like Witcher 3 but also future efforts like Cyberpunk 2077 or the next Elder Scrolls at 4K 60 and yet, because of the gimped CPU we likely won't get that level of future performance. That sucks to me, sorry.
The advertising deal with sony probably holds them back from saying anything about the other versions. Im actually kind of curious to see if there will be forced parity with ps4 pro due to the deal.
Sad Affleck
Member
That will be by developer choice. I'm talking about hardware capabilities. The PS4 Pro's hardware is not enough to run 4K games at PS4 quality and framerate. The Scorpio (theoretically) is. These are the facts, developers will choose whether to run games at native 4K or use the hardware in different ways.
Absolutely was, very smart. This discussion is the 'boring' side for a lot of people, leaving MS to focus on the more 'exciting' side of things.
The Scorpio isn't strong enough to run everything at native 4K. Devs will make choices yeah, just like they do for every system.
Yep, people look at things in terms of performance when trying to predict the price, but cost is determined by chip size and yields. The SoC is almost the same size as the launch XBO SoC, and Scorpio uses 12 GDDR5 modules compared to the 16 used in the launch PS4. While the improved cooling setup will cost more, cooling isn't something that noticeably raises the price unless you get into water cooling. And hell, the extra cost in cooling will be made for up by the integration of the PSU, which needed its own casing and cooling in the launch XBO. My guess is that the final build cost is remarkably close to the launch XBO not counting Kinect, maybe even less.
Ive been saying it since E3 last year and I'm even more confident in it now, Scorpio will have a $399 1TB SKU and a 2TB+stand $499 SKU. But whatever, the more people convince themselves that it's going to be $500 the more impact the $399 announcement will have.