Support NeoGAF

[Daemul]

Yeah, Elder Scrolls lore is good, though you need to be careful not to take some of the more outlandish stuff as anything more than metaphors.

If anyone is looking for a good introduction to Elder Scrolls lore, then check out videos by Zaric Zhakaron. He has by far the best and most detailed Elder Scrolls Lore series on Youtube (the rest are trash tbh), and it's a must watch for anyone wanting to learn more about the origins of the Elder Scrolls Universe.

[TESLORE] The Elder Scrolls Lore Series

You can skip the first video in the series unless you're interested in learning about the lore community and the concept of canon, episode 2 is where the series proper starts.

The series is also still ongoing and will be continued soon.

 

[Incandenza]

I find C0DA utterly incomprehensible.

 

[AnathemicOne]

I find C0DA utterly incomprehensible.

Starship Tribunal

 

[Rymuth]

Interesting stuff, OP.

Btw I read somewhere, in passing, that there is an A.I or some futuristic sci-fi being manipulating things behind tne empire. Any truth to that?

 

[UserDoesNotExist]

I'm on to you, Trojita, you're a Bethesda astroturfer trying to get me to buy the shiny new version of Skyrim so that Takakaka, the Khajiit Book Thief Extraordinaire, may ride again.

Spoiler

It's working.

 

[Zel3]

I find C0DA utterly incomprehensible.

Oh my god what is is this? Why is Vivec taking like that? I have so many questions...

 

[JonnyDBrit]

Oh my god what is is this? Why is Vivec taking like that? I have so many questions...

No-one is quite sure what Kirkbride is on, but I imagine many of us want some.

 

[BigDes]

Part of the reason I never feel bad for cheating in Elder scrolls games. It's canon motherfuckers.

 

[TwelveJaguars]

My favorite thing about Elder Scrolls lore is the fact that very little of it is concrete. Most of the cosmology of Elder Scrolls hasn't been fed to us directly through cutscenes, it's been told to us second hand by in-game authors who believe this is the way the world is. Elder Scrolls games basically run on the unreliable narrator trope.

Yes! This is what makes ES lore really intriguing. In many properties you would get an intro with "Zolgar is the god of thunder..." and so on and that would be that. But in ES all of the history, theology and cosmology is presented from in world sources. This gives the world an incredible sense of authenticity. Each culture has it's own pantheon, often seemingly mutually exclusive, and the observant player is left wondering if anyone knows the true nature of the world. It's really very clever and as far as I know unmatched in the industry.

 

[Hentailover]

I mean, isn't one incredibly major event in the universe (daggerfal related) has no canon resolution IN UNIVERSE? like, all the timelines and results of that event exist simultaniously and that's how certain things are at all possible? TES was always weird and funky and nothing like usual Fantasy stuff. Which makes it looking more and more generic lately a bit of a shame. I want that original vision of empire, that is mix of Japan and Roman empire, with roman looking dudes plowing fields for Rice and riding on dragon-like things.

 

[I'm new be nice]

So basically anything can be changed and player agency is fully considered in lore and encouraged and some things are to be believed and others not and fanfiction is now canon and everything is a dream come realized and the author is possibly trolling but in his trolls are truth

 

[Alebrije]

I think heard there is some link between Fallout and Elders Scroolls

Maybe Elders Escrools is the Earth after Fallout era , thousands of years later , continents changed. Fallout creatures evolved to dragons , trolls , elfos , etc....magic is the result of radiactive exposure by years....etc....

 

[InsaneFandom]

It's all very weird.
I'd think almost everyone who just plays the games doesn't have a clue about any of it either, I know I didn't before I got slightly sucked into the rabbit hole when looking for theories explaining why the Thalmor gave a crap about people worshiping Talos in Skyrim

It all might not even be true though, just a belief sections of in-universe (and real life) population have. Who the hell knows

This talk is kinda making me wanna replay some of the games as an academic/philosopher type character trying (&probably failing) to get more info on the nature of their universe

 

[duckroll]

Holy shit. TES was Star Ocean 3 all along?!

 

[Gabriel_Logan]

This is crazy

 

[Sushi Nao]

Wow, thanks Trojita. I had no idea about this and had wondered exactly what had happened to Talos.

Was this, to a lesser degree, what gave Vivec his powers? I feel like I read what the lore is for him but it's been a while.


The only way to "reveal the monster" and keep it scary with the Sload is to give them limited but effective CHIM

 

[Outrun]

Chim pan A

To

Chim pan Z

Seriously, this lore sounds interesting.

 

[Starfield]

understanding TES lore is equal to being a rocket scientist.


Just let that sink in your head that the Khajiit who are kind of worshiping a moon tried to get to said Moon via building HUGE ladder made out of...Khajiit ontop of each other. And they suceeded doing so I believe.

 

[Trojita]

Wow, thanks Trojita. I had no idea about this and had wondered exactly what had happened to Talos.

Was this, to a lesser degree, what gave Vivec his powers? I feel like I read what the lore is for him but it's been a while.

Yes. It's assumed Talos and Vivec are the only two known beings to achieve CHIM.

Holy shit. TES was Star Ocean 3 all along?!

The best game just keeps getting better.

 

[Ahasverus]

Thanks to this thread I fell into the ES lore rabbit hole.

Did you know that Talos is NOT Tiber Septim, but an amalgamation of three guys who shared a part of Lorkhan's soul, which means all Skyrim is wrong?

Welp-

 

[Tubobutts]

This is why I just shake my head when people dismiss Elder Scrolls as "generic fantasy"

 

[thumb]

This is why I just shake my head when people dismiss Elder Scrolls as "generic fantasy"

It's certainly all that it actively shows to the player. And there's very little I experienced in-game that made me think "the lore for this world is probably both deep and super strange."

 

[TissueBox]

Thanks to this thread I fell into the ES lore rabbit hole.

Did you know that Talos is NOT Tiber Septim, but an amalgamation of three guys who shared a part of Lorkhan's soul, which means all Skyrim is wrong?

Welp-

Yeah that's also where the whole mantling thing comes in. The statue with Talos and the sword over the snake represents the collective mantling of godhood, where Lorkhan is the snake, iirc -- allegedly what the Champion of Cyrodiil may have done to Sheogorath at the end of Shivering Isles and the Tribunal to Azura, Mephala, and Boethiah. Supposedly there's several ways to go about that though.

Essentially the people of Skyrim believe in one aspect of the Talos story whereas the Mer/Thalmor believe in another... though they both acknowledge Tiber Septim the circumstances surrounding his 'mantling' of Lorkhan and filling that empty role as a god is hotly debated on.

 

[JimmyRustler]

I absolutely love the TES lore and didn't knew about this.

My mind is blown. WTF?

 

[Mr. Phellps]

This thread made me desperately crave a TES VI.

 

[MattyG]

Welp. Looks like I'm jumping back into ESO and paying more attention to lore.

I just hope they utilize the full potential of this stuff in TES6. I hate when storytellers have potentially interesting material and squander it on boring stories.

 

[Jamiaro]

What is the best site for TES-lore? I love reading that stuff.

 

[Col.Asher]

Holy shit. TES was Star Ocean 3 all along?!

So the protags of Star Ocean 3 were CHIM. Makes sense, I think.

 

[Speely]

IIRC, they disappeared because they fucked with the disembodied heart of a forsaken dead god responsible for physical existence. Basically, they hit the heart with a magic hammer and cut the line of their race forever. One Dwemer survived because he was in another plane of reality at the time, so his existence wasn't tied down to Lorkhan (the aforementioned dead god.)

Aka, they found a way to wake from the dream by realizing that it was one. What better way to conceptualize the nature of reality than to strike the heart of a dead god responsible for physical existence?

Spoiler

Just kidding.

 

[Tubobutts]

What is the best site for TES-lore? I love reading that stuff.

The Imperial Library and UESP

The official forums also have some good stuff but I haven't visited them regularly in years. I also don't know much about the TES Lore Reddit but it probably has some good info.

 

[TissueBox]

My favorite theory about CHIM is of it essentially being all about "selfless love", in that you're able to achieve a love both for yourself and the universe as a dream that transcends yourself or simple notions of right and wrong to the point you ascend to that ultra consciousness. That's just beautiful imo. Of course the dark side is that this is actually a selfish act too, with numerous implications. But the concept alone is great.

Welp. Looks like I'm jumping back into ESO and paying more attention to lore.

I just hope they utilize the full potential of this stuff in TES6. I hate when storytellers have potentially interesting material and squander it on boring stories.

Nah they don't need to, there's still soo much surface stuff, let alone anything beyond those layers, that carry questions and uncertainties that can be explored, such as the case of Hammerfell, the relations between Black Marsh and Morrowind, etc. The political climate + elven gods would be much more immediately accessible and functional probably.

Nevertheless, they always derive aspects of the plot and story from these deep innards of batshit insanity. If you look at the origins of the REAL Alduin, for example (not the lame second-rate de-powered dragon we see in Skyrim), the true World-Eater, well, let's just say it's Kirkbride in his fnest. I'm sure ESVI will throw sprinkles of this across its template as well.

What is the best site for TES-lore? I love reading that stuff.

Really, checking out teslore on Reddit is a very good starting point as they have introductory guides to ease you in. That said, though they're probably one of the most prominent communities out there, keep in mind that their stances are also a certain breed and for your own interpretations of the lore it is also always beneficial to check out the sources themselves thoroughly. For that the Imperial Library has all the reading material you need, and UESP is a great condensed database.

 

[Creaking]

If I could become a godlike being I'd improve the fucking combat first thing. Then I'd move it to a new god damn engine as Amaranth needs to stop dreaming in GameBryo.

I lol'd.

 

[Darkstorne]

It's certainly all that it actively shows to the player. And there's very little I experienced in-game that made me think "the lore for this world is probably both deep and super strange."

It's there if you look for it. Most players ignore the books though (or at least reading them) and don't dig into some of the more interesting side quests like meeting the ghost of one of Talos' warriors at Old Hroldan who refers to you as Hjalti, and claims to have fought by your side all those years ago. That throws a lot of weight behind an alternate history of Tiber Septim that claims he was born in High Rock instead of Atmora, with his power derived from a secret alliance with Ysmir, the Underking, an avatar of Lorkhan, who just wanted to use Hjalti to gain revenge on Morrowind's Tribunal. That was a nice little headfuck the game threw in there, and suggests the people of Skyrim have their history of Tiber Septim all wrong.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

What's the deal with the sentient tree in Black Marsh that floats in the sky or something? I remember reading about it, but can't remember where.

 

[Vulcano's assistant]

This is why the glitches you use to speed run Morrowind are canon and lore-friendly.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

According to the nitty gritty TES lore, the actual plot of Skyrim is completely different than what it appears on the surface level.

Alduin and the dragons aren't just reptilian monsters, they're interdimensional time eaters that just look like reptiles to mortal eyes.

The Thalmor aren't just elf supremacists trying to suppress Talos because he's a human god and that offends their hoity toity elf sensibilities, it's because Talos used CHIM to retroactively exist from the lives of three different people and "mantled" (mythologically took on the role of, and thus became) Lorkhan/Shor, the god that allowed Mundus to exist. Humans worship Lorkhan for tricking the other gods into making reality and time, but elves despise him as a trickster, and believe that the introduction of time and physical reality denied them their true nature as spirits. Akatosh, the Time Dragon, is wound around reality itself by this act and thus is forced to only move forward, thus causing the linear nature of time (and therefore why time paradoxes and manipulation are known as Dragon Breaks).

By seeking the destruction of the remaining Towers (as seen by the fact that the Crystal Tower was supposedly destroyed by the Oblivion Crisis, but was possibly orchestrated by the early Thalmor), and suppressing Talos worship to unmantle him and thus retroactively make him-as-Lorkhan no longer exist, the Thalmor are trying to destroy the anchors of reality and the god who birthed it, thus unmaking physical matter and freeing Alduin from a linear timeline, which they believe will allow them to be like gods unfettered by the conventional rules of spacetime.

 

[MCN]

Part of the reason I never feel bad for cheating in Elder scrolls games. It's canon motherfuckers.

In fact, by not using TGM, you're basically breaking canon!

 

[Iriscomeback]

According to the nitty gritty TES lore, the actual plot of Skyrim is completely different than what it appears on the surface level.

Alduin and the dragons aren't just reptilian monsters, they're interdimensional time eaters that just look like reptiles to mortal eyes.

The Thalmor aren't just elf supremacists trying to suppress Talos because he's a human god and that offends their hoity toity elf sensibilities, it's because Talos used CHIM to retroactively exist from the lives of three different people and "mantled" (mythologically took on the role of, and thus became) Lorkhan/Shor, the god that allowed Mundus to exist. Humans worship Lorkhan for tricking the other gods into making reality and time, but elves despise him as a trickster, and believe that the introduction of time and physical reality denied them their true nature as spirits. Akatosh, the Time Dragon, is wound around reality itself by this act and thus is forced to only move forward, thus causing the linear nature of time (and therefore why time paradoxes and manipulation are known as Dragon Breaks).

By seeking the destruction of the remaining Towers (as seen by the fact that the Crystal Tower was supposedly destroyed by the Oblivion Crisis, but was possibly orchestrated by the early Thalmor), and suppressing Talos worship to unmantle him and thus retroactively make him-as-Lorkhan no longer exist, the Thalmor are trying to destroy the anchors of reality and the god who birthed it, thus unmaking physical matter and freeing Alduin from a linear timeline, which they believe will allow them to be like gods unfettered by the conventional rules of spacetime.

Mind blown

 

[Tubobutts]

What's the deal with the sentient tree in Black Marsh that floats in the sky or something? I remember reading about it, but can't remember where.

I'm a bit rusty on the lore so I'm not sure what you're referring to specifically, but the sentient trees are The Hist.

 

[Pinko Marx]

Holy shit. TES was Star Ocean 3 all along?!

Minus cute anime girls
Plus better writing.

 

[Darkstorne]

What's the deal with the sentient tree in Black Marsh that floats in the sky or something? I remember reading about it, but can't remember where.

Might be referring to the novels, the Infernal City. There was a time travelling floating island from Oblivion that royally screwed over Blackmarsh and Morrowind with zombie magic. It had some really interesting trees growing on it though, and Ysolde in Skyrim suggests that the Sleeping Tree outside Whiterun grew from a seed that fell from these trees. There's also a theory that the hist trees of Blackmarsh originated from these trees, since they also speak to people and, well, the island time travels. Something like that.

 

[CloudWolf]

Pelinal Whitestrake (seen in Oblivion DLC Knights of Nine) is a timetravelling cyborg that shoots lazars. No lie.

Good old Bethesda, stealing ideas from old Black Sabbath songs.

 

[Pinko Marx]

Just to blow you guys' mind some more.
The Imperial City was built to resemble "The Wheel" with "The Tower" in the middle.

 

[JimmyRustler]

According to the nitty gritty TES lore, the actual plot of Skyrim is completely different than what it appears on the surface level.

Alduin and the dragons aren't just reptilian monsters, they're interdimensional time eaters that just look like reptiles to mortal eyes.

The Thalmor aren't just elf supremacists trying to suppress Talos because he's a human god and that offends their hoity toity elf sensibilities, it's because Talos used CHIM to retroactively exist from the lives of three different people and "mantled" (mythologically took on the role of, and thus became) Lorkhan/Shor, the god that allowed Mundus to exist. Humans worship Lorkhan for tricking the other gods into making reality and time, but elves despise him as a trickster, and believe that the introduction of time and physical reality denied them their true nature as spirits. Akatosh, the Time Dragon, is wound around reality itself by this act and thus is forced to only move forward, thus causing the linear nature of time (and therefore why time paradoxes and manipulation are known as Dragon Breaks).

By seeking the destruction of the remaining Towers (as seen by the fact that the Crystal Tower was supposedly destroyed by the Oblivion Crisis, but was possibly orchestrated by the early Thalmor), and suppressing Talos worship to unmantle him and thus retroactively make him-as-Lorkhan no longer exist, the Thalmor are trying to destroy the anchors of reality and the god who birthed it, thus unmaking physical matter and freeing Alduin from a linear timeline, which they believe will allow them to be like gods unfettered by the conventional rules of spacetime.

 

[Eusis]

I think heard there is some link between Fallout and Elders Scroolls

Maybe Elders Escrools is the Earth after Fallout era , thousands of years later , continents changed. Fallout creatures evolved to dragons , trolls , elfos , etc....magic is the result of radiactive exposure by years....etc....

Ugh, no.

I'll take it being the mad mind of that one guy in a vault in 3 though.

 

[Luigiv]

I was was mind blown by this little snippet of TES lore. Apparently many of the NPCs used to be adventures, just like us, until they all took an arrow to the knee.

 

[Chobel]

Where the fuck are this stuff from guys?

 

[Monocle]

Oh wow, I just read C0DA and then got lost in the warrens of the Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages and The Imperial Library, catching up on some of Michael Kirkbride's writings.

The 36 Lessons of Vivec are some of my favorite in-game lore ever. Now I remember why I loved Morrowind so much. The Elder Scroll's universe has some of the most compelling lore in the entire medium. Fantastic, enthralling, mind-expanding stuff.

According to the nitty gritty TES lore, the actual plot of Skyrim is completely different than what it appears on the surface level.

Alduin and the dragons aren't just reptilian monsters, they're interdimensional time eaters that just look like reptiles to mortal eyes.

The Thalmor aren't just elf supremacists trying to suppress Talos because he's a human god and that offends their hoity toity elf sensibilities, it's because Talos used CHIM to retroactively exist from the lives of three different people and "mantled" (mythologically took on the role of, and thus became) Lorkhan/Shor, the god that allowed Mundus to exist. Humans worship Lorkhan for tricking the other gods into making reality and time, but elves despise him as a trickster, and believe that the introduction of time and physical reality denied them their true nature as spirits. Akatosh, the Time Dragon, is wound around reality itself by this act and thus is forced to only move forward, thus causing the linear nature of time (and therefore why time paradoxes and manipulation are known as Dragon Breaks).

By seeking the destruction of the remaining Towers (as seen by the fact that the Crystal Tower was supposedly destroyed by the Oblivion Crisis, but was possibly orchestrated by the early Thalmor), and suppressing Talos worship to unmantle him and thus retroactively make him-as-Lorkhan no longer exist, the Thalmor are trying to destroy the anchors of reality and the god who birthed it, thus unmaking physical matter and freeing Alduin from a linear timeline, which they believe will allow them to be like gods unfettered by the conventional rules of spacetime.

This is my jam.

I think heard there is some link between Fallout and Elders Scroolls

Maybe Elders Escrools is the Earth after Fallout era , thousands of years later , continents changed. Fallout creatures evolved to dragons , trolls , elfos , etc....magic is the result of radiactive exposure by years....etc....

Good god, I hope not.

 

[Darkstorne]

According to the nitty gritty TES lore, the actual plot of Skyrim is completely different than what it appears on the surface level.

Alduin and the dragons aren't just reptilian monsters, they're interdimensional time eaters that just look like reptiles to mortal eyes.

The Thalmor aren't just elf supremacists trying to suppress Talos because he's a human god and that offends their hoity toity elf sensibilities, it's because Talos used CHIM to retroactively exist from the lives of three different people and "mantled" (mythologically took on the role of, and thus became) Lorkhan/Shor, the god that allowed Mundus to exist. Humans worship Lorkhan for tricking the other gods into making reality and time, but elves despise him as a trickster, and believe that the introduction of time and physical reality denied them their true nature as spirits. Akatosh, the Time Dragon, is wound around reality itself by this act and thus is forced to only move forward, thus causing the linear nature of time (and therefore why time paradoxes and manipulation are known as Dragon Breaks).

By seeking the destruction of the remaining Towers (as seen by the fact that the Crystal Tower was supposedly destroyed by the Oblivion Crisis, but was possibly orchestrated by the early Thalmor), and suppressing Talos worship to unmantle him and thus retroactively make him-as-Lorkhan no longer exist, the Thalmor are trying to destroy the anchors of reality and the god who birthed it, thus unmaking physical matter and freeing Alduin from a linear timeline, which they believe will allow them to be like gods unfettered by the conventional rules of spacetime.

This is why I side with the Empire every time. Stakes are so much higher than they seem. The Thalmor aren't trying to take over the Empire, they want to destroy the world and end time by erasing all men and all record that man ever even existed to prevent Talos ever happening again. Plus they're probably wrong and will only kill themselves as well.

Skyrim can sort its internal shit out once the kool-aid cult has been dealt with.

 

[I'm new be nice]

I'm impressed by its malleability that's for sure. Brilliant for its medium. Enough structure to keep you interested, and enough leeway to maintain itself throughout the numerous player interpretations and choices.