GearDraxon
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In my dreams, the ladies all have clean faces.
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So what exactly is the true nature of the Elder Scroll Universe? *Lore Spoilers*
- Thread starter Trojita
- Start date
Pinko Marx
Banned
It's always great reading the reactions to TES lore newbies. The best kept secret about these games is the lore. It gets into some real 4th wall breaking shenanigans where some of the higher beings are aware of the player's existence.
I'm new be nice
Member
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
JonnyDBrit
Member
Here, a letter (not in-game, but in the Imperial Library, a lore site) from the Fifth Era:
elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Loveletter_From_the_Fifth_Era,_The_True_Purpose_of_Tamriel
Lostconfused
Member
TissueBox
Member
There's also supposedly an alternate continent that's a mirror world to Tamriel possibly to the south -- though who knows the literal from the downright untrue in these games -- called Lyg. And there's also a theory that the continents represent different time shifts and manifestations of the same world, and Akavir is Tamriel in the future and Yokuda the past, or something, though this is seen as very speculative, being first brought up by Kirkbride in pasing iirc.
Pinko Marx
Banned
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/CHIM
It's been so long since I've read up on some lore but basically the cosmos of TES can be visualized by a wheel with a tower in the middle as the hub.
As stated in the OP when someone becomes aware of "the dream" but can still hold on to the tower (the tower doubles as a metaphor to the letter "I", as in "myself" your physical identity as you know it) they achieve CHIM and become a god.
The cool part about this is that because of this the lore then is able to support the idea of the player playing with and actively screwing around with the game via mods, cheats, glitches etc. Because the player character in some ways is channeling CHIM through being controlled by the player.
Or something to that effect. There are YouTube's and wikis out there you can dig deeper into.
JonnyDBrit
Member
It's brilliant, really. Kirkbride's strung together a lore so batshit crazy that he can put out whatever the hell he wants, and people will be going 'What does it all mean?!'
...I wonder if FROM Software took notes.
Orochinagis
Member
moustascheman
Member
So I just read up on C0DA... I am very confused right now.
BouncyFrag
Member
Just look up the goodtimes Molag Bol and Vivec had*.
*NSFW
*NSFW
I'm still laughing at this post.
Darkstorne
Member
Pelinal Whitestrake. Pops up all over the place, singing the praises of heroes who haven't been born yet. Wins duels and topples empires. Claims to be from the 9th era. Has a heart made of Ruby, possibly the Amulet of Kings.
It's some absolutely amazing lore, mostly by Kirkbride who worked as part of the team until Morrowind, but then left and only acted as adviser of sorts. He has written a lot of "unofficial lore" since then, which Bethesda always seem to include in their games anyway. The shouty priest yelling incessantly about Talos in Whiterun for example, he preaches Kirkbride's story about how Talos used his CHIM to shout away the jungles of Cyrodiil and replace it with fertile hills. It's something the Beyond Skyrim mod team have latched onto with their Cyrodiil mod, showing the jungle retaking the heartlands due to the worship of Talos having being banned in the Empire. Cool stuff.
You know, I think this is probably a good explanation as any.
TissueBox
Member
Yep there's so much possibility because of the ridiculous amount of details we know peripherally combined with the rock hard, genre stew foundations set up by Kirkbride and co... the set up now is pretty much a goldmine for all kinds of intrigue to follow because the mysteries just keep going lol, while all feeling connected. It's rich enough to bask in.
Would also be cool to see Miyazaki shouting out Morrowind lol.
Pinko Marx
Banned
The hero from Oblivion (the character you played) actually did go mad. I think after the shivering isle expansion he becomes Sheogarath (I think that's his name) and there's even a questline in Skyrim where you meet him.
I loved the whole sheogptarh questline. Oblivion's quest were so much better than Skyrim's that it's not even funny.
YES
The lusty Argonian maid
Pinko Marx
Banned
The 36 sermons of Vivec.
That does not really refute that you can't be a dream. Though this is ultimately pointless, it's fundamentally impossible to CHIM if there is no outside interference.
It's true. I don't even like the games. I played Morrowind just to find all the in-game books.
AnathemicOne
Banned
Haha seeing the reactions here are precious. But yes the stuff the OP has described has existed since Morrowind to my knowledge. For anyone who recalls, Cyrodiil (the province where Oblivion takes place) was originally supposed to be a jungle; Talos/Tiber Septim with CHIM essentially changed the reality of such to accommodate the spread of his Empire thus you see the result come Oblivion in-game with Cyrodiil virtually having no jungles whatsoever.
In addition, more mind-blowing stuff is present in Skyrim as well!
In addition, more mind-blowing stuff is present in Skyrim as well!
CountAntonius
Member
Best part of ESO is running around all the places I had only read about.
Skittzo0413
Member
Yeah essentially. I think it's implied somewhere that Vivec got a hold of the modding tools to build his city and all that.
It also lets you explain the possibility of player mods in-game. The Dragonborn wants Thomas the Tank Engine dragons? The Dragonborn gets his Thomas the Tank Engine dragons!
It doesn't refute that we're in a dream, it refutes that you don't exist. Cogito ergo sum is totally compatible with the Matrix theory, as in both cases an "I" must exist in some form.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
Correct me if I'm wrong, but when realizing you are in a dream and you *poof* out of existence, you are literally removed from past, present, and future. The ramifications of that are staggering. Does the individual lose sense of self and therefore ceases to exist or is the dream self correcting itself?
Meanwhile the person that achieves CHIM has to reconcile several contradictory things. They have to realize the world they live in is a dream, they have to realize that they were born in a "fake" world, exist in a "fake" world, but believe they themselves as an individual is still real. I think therefore I am.
Meanwhile the person that achieves CHIM has to reconcile several contradictory things. They have to realize the world they live in is a dream, they have to realize that they were born in a "fake" world, exist in a "fake" world, but believe they themselves as an individual is still real. I think therefore I am.
AnathemicOne
Banned
I believe it involve both options, if one fails to CHIM then said individual would caese to exist within the Dream, as it were, self-correcting in removing said individual from existence in all aspects like they were never there to begin with in the first place. After all, there's only theorized records of people who have succeeded to CHIM (Talos, Vivec, etc.), but never those who've failed.
Or I could be entirely wrong as while I've read up alot of TES lore I cannot claim I'm an expert. If you're invested in learning more, should check out the TES lore community on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/
I did not really want to comment about the existence thing but it's a little more tricky than that. The problem with that statement is that it's derived on the notion that whatever "exists" outside the matrix follows the same rules. For all we know, you can throw logic into the dumpster and the concept of existence with it. Though that pretty much makes the whole question useless and we might as well disregard it.
Darkstorne
Member
Ehhh, I don't know about that. Valenwood is atrocious in that game. So is Blackmarsh. And Ayleid ruins are everywhere even when they shouldn't be. Each province only has one style of architecture for all of its towns and cities. Imagine if every city in Skyrim was basically Whiterun - that's the level of detail in ESO's world building.
I have learned to appreciate a lot of the lore it adds, and I adore the gameplay, but the exploration is easily that game's biggest flaw imo.
Pinko Marx
Banned
Yeah. Its to reconcile the fact that you're playing and game and are able to do all this wacky stuff. The player automatically achieves CHIM because we're interacting with a video game, we already know it's a "dream".
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Kirkbride went on to write some crazy stuff about the distant future of the Elder Scrolls world and how an elven queen (?) from ES history was actually a robot or something. It all ties together somehow.
AnathemicOne
Banned
Pelinal Whitestrake (seen in Oblivion DLC Knights of Nine) is a timetravelling cyborg that shoots lazars. No lie.
My favorite thing about Elder Scrolls lore is the fact that very little of it is concrete. Most of the cosmology of Elder Scrolls hasn't been fed to us directly through cutscenes, it's been told to us second hand by in-game authors who believe this is the way the world is. Elder Scrolls games basically run on the unreliable narrator trope.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
I.. can't find the source on this?
Hm, it's more like the nature of the universe according to Hinduism. Brahma is dreaming and he's got his sleep schedule on an alarm clock. Get your living in before it sounds off.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
IIRC, they disappeared because they fucked with the disembodied heart of a forsaken dead god responsible for physical existence. Basically, they hit the heart with a magic hammer and cut the line of their race forever. One Dwemer survived because he was in another plane of reality at the time, so his existence wasn't tied down to Lorkhan (the aforementioned dead god.)
Common Knowledge
Member
No matter your opinion on the Elder Scrolls games, you have to appreciate the sheer amount of work that has gone into fleshing out the universe of the series. I don't really have the patience to read through all the in-game books you can find, but skimming through some it's incredible how much you can learn about random stuff if you desire.
AnathemicOne
Banned
Within in-game texts Pelinal is mentioned multiple times being present in events hundreds of years apart. Sol's reddit links are a good summary of it.
Mwuahahaha this this so much.
Fushichou187
Member
Sounds like TES is cribbing some Lovecraft (Azathoth) or Lord Dunsany (MĀNA-YOOD-SUSHĀĪ
which I'm more than okay with. I think TES lore in general is pretty fascinating.
which I'm more than okay with. I think TES lore in general is pretty fascinating.civilstrife
Member
This is blowing my mind.
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