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[Trojita]

So apparently the actual true nature of The Elder Scrolls universe is that of a dream. A being known as the Amaranth is dreaming the Elder Scrolls universe while it has been in a long slumber.

Now here's where things get extra fuckey and tie into things you've seen in the game.

There are two possible results of you realizing that you are the inhabitant of a dream. If one day in Tamriel you realize that you live in a dream and nothing is real, you *poof* out of existence. You literally have that one thought and instantly disappear.

If you instead realize that you live inside a dream, but fervently maintain your own individuality, you reach a state named CHIM. CHIM is basically like gaining root permissions to the world of The Elder Scrolls. You can manipulate the world as you see fit since you realize it is a dream while at the same time you haven't disappeared.

One very well known character in Tamriel history reportedly achieved CHIM. The god hero Talos that is worshipped on the continent. He achieved CHIM which gave him the abilities of a deity in the world and allowed him to do all the things he was able to do. This is why he is both referred to as a living man and as a god.

So when did this stuff get added into Elder Scrolls lore? I'm guessing most people that play the games, even some that like the lore read in the games, didn't know about this.

 

[SargerusBR]

W-what? Is this shit from TESO?

 

[Sephzilla]

*Reads OP*

 

[Durrzerker]

This stuff has all been lore since at least Morrowind and maybe earlier. You miss out on a ton of backstory if you don't read all the books in these games.

Michael Kirkbride wrote most of that stuff and he is one crazy son of a bitch.

 

[60EffPeeEss]

Its conjecture based on stories in the games about how Lorkhan shaped the world of Nirn by giving himself up to the aetherial magic threaded throughout the Universe. He gave his life so that others, namely mortals, would understand how to transcend the limits of existence and be able to re-write reality as they see fit.

This reality rewriting thing allows TES writers to retroactively change stuff, as they did with doing away with the jungles of Cyrodill for Oblivion, and can effectively allow them to change a whole load of shit in future to suit their own desires to play a certain plot within the world.

It'll never really appear in the games for real because it'd just be too stupid and plot breaking to actively fashion it as a mechanic of the story the player experiences, more just as an excuse for things changing rapidly between game releases.

 

[BigTnaples]

TES lore is the best lore.

 

[HStallion]

If I could become a godlike being I'd improve the fucking combat first thing. Then I'd move it to a new god damn engine as Amaranth needs to stop dreaming in GameBryo.

 

[Skittzo0413]

This stuff has all been lore since at least Morrowind and maybe earlier. You miss out on a ton of backstory if you don't read all the books in these games.

Michael Kirkbride wrote most of that stuff and he is one crazy son of a bitch.

Yeah this. Vivec was another character who achieved CHIM. He basically used the Morrowind TES construction set to create the city of Vivec, using the same meshes/textures present in Molag Mar.

I don't recall the dream stuff though.

 

[Eusis]

It'll never really appear in the games for real because it'd just be too stupid and plot breaking to actively fashion it as a mechanic of the story the player experiences, more just as an excuse for things changing rapidly between game releases.

Alternatively: what do you think modding is? It's even on consoles now!

 

[Lashley]

I fucking love TES lore

 

[Starfield]

Basically Tamriel is the Matrix

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

Basically Tamriel is the Matrix

Then you wake up in a Fallout 5 cryo chamber.

 

[EatinOlives]

TES lore is the best lore.

Yep, I don't know of any other long-running game series that has a lore as developed and constant as long as TES has been going. Maybe WarCraft? But I think Arena is older by a few years.

 

[Skittzo0413]

Basically Tamriel is the Matrix

Sort of. It's more like the characters can achieve a state of awareness such that they realize they are characters in a game. It's sort of like holodeck characters gaining self awareness, a bit more than like the Matrix.

I think I remember Michael Kirkbride writing about having "discussions" with Vivec, as if Vivec sort of talked to him from the game and helped him write the sermons. That guy is the best kind of crazy.

 

[13ruce]

Meh i hate the it's all a dream story explanation in movies/games/books etc it was cool in the Matrix but it pisses me off now.

Majora's Mask one (source is that new Zelda book that is released in Japan) already made me my roll eyes. So all the side quests i did for those people and all other emotional things in that game, yeah when Link leaves termina it stops existing anyway so Kafei's whole sad sidequest yeah....

It makes emotional or meaningfull story/sidequests/gameplay less impactfull since who cares it's all a dream/fake reality.
Sure it's all fiction and fake but i just find that it's all a dream/fake reality ruins character/lore development.

Honestly i did not know this about Elder Scrolls and it dissapoints me a bit i am not heavy in ES lore but i did like what i knew and this sours it a bit for me.

Will still ofcourse play the next big ES singleplayer game.

 

[Gaminar]

Hahaha love it.

 

[John Kowalski]

Oh yeah, Amaranth is an anagram for

Spoiler

i'm high as fuck

Someone dragon break this shit

 

[doemaaan]

Then you wake up in a Fallout 5 cryo chamber.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Honestly i did not know this about Elder Scrolls and it dissapoints me a bit i am not heavy in ES lore but i did like what i knew and this sours it a bit for me.

Ehh. Some people would say our world is all a dream. It doesn't make a difference to most of those living in it.

 

[pitchfork]

Yeah, this kind of blows my mind when I see it in the lorebooks

 

[Velocity:Design:Comfort]

Isn't this just kind of the idea behind Buddhism/Taoism? and Talos is Buddha?

 

[omnislayer]

Meh i hate the it's all a dream story explanation in movies/games/books etc it was cool in the Matrix but it pisses me off now.

Majora's Mask one (source is that new Zelda book that is released in Japan) already made me my roll eyes. So all the side quests i did for those people and all other emotional things in that game, yeah when Link leaves termina it stops existing anyway so Kafei's whole sad sidequest yeah....

It makes emotional or meaningfull story/sidequests/gameplay less impactfull since who cares it's all a dream/fake reality.
Sure it's all fiction and fake but i just find that it's all a dream/fake reality ruins character/lore development.

Honestly i did not know this about Elder Scrolls and it dissapoints me a bit i am not heavy in ES lore but i did like what i knew and this sours it a bit for me.

Will still ofcourse play the next big ES singleplayer game.

Can you say with absolute certainty that your own existance isn't meerly the dream of a great entity of unimaginable power?

Just because you believe you're "real" doesn't mean you are.

 

[Drillary Clinton]

If I could become a godlike being I'd improve the fucking combat first thing. Then I'd move it to a new god damn engine as Amaranth needs to stop dreaming in GameBryo.

I'm crying

 

[Blue Ninja]

The Elder Scrolls universe is a lot more intricate than most people give it credit for. A lot of it can't be found in the games, though, and only exists in supplementary materials. I'm not sure if CHIM and the true nature of Talos ever get mentioned, even though they're a heavy motivator for Thalmor actions post-Oblivion. Most of that stuff was thought up by Michael Kirkbride and his fellow writers, I think. Guy's a mad genius. He's not with Bethesda anymore, but a lot of his ideas permeate every aspect of TES lore even today.

You should check out C0DA. It's not officially canon, but it's a total mindfuck, taking place in a far-future Elder Scrolls universe.

 

[Jigorath]

That sounds very Lovecraft.

 

[JonnyDBrit]

It is, IIRC, a bit of a blurry line between what's actually present and included in a game, vs what is basically glorified fanfiction but from Michael Kirkbride, one of the major parties involved with building the series lore. From the Elder Scrolls wikia page on CHIM:

So CHIM is certainly a thing, but whether or not it fully reflects Kirkbride's further writings on the matter is something at the whims of Bethesda. It doesn't help that Vivec is a popular character so the pseudo-canon/pseudo-fanon is appreciated by many, but it is not clearly set in stone.

To be honest, the nature of the Elder Scrolls universe, if anything, is uncertain. Deliberately so really, as it allows the creators to throw in all sorts of retcons as needed, or have clearly contradictory elements of lore, but not technically have resulting plotholes. Elven gods apparently exist even though you literally summoned the dragon god worshipped by men in a previous game? Eh, it works somehow, you're just too mortal to get it.

 

[Cuningas de Häme]

Elder Scrolls are the best scrolls.

I love this crazy world and it's lore, all the crazy books from even crazier authors. For example the traveling guides written buy a guy who's openly racist and maybe even hasn't visited half the places he writes about. Or the real Barenziah (the OG Daggerfall, lewd!) and actually anything regarding her.

I have all the books as e-books and read them from time to time. One things that's awesome is that those are written by characters in the world and one can interpret (?) them as wanted. I seriously think that there is no single "correct" lore but instead lots of theories that may have controversies.

 

[Col.Asher]

Is that what happened to the dwemer? Realized it was a dream and dissapeared?

 

[CAR105 3]

So you figured it out OP? How does it feel turning into godhood?

Spoiler

TES has the best lore

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

Yep, I don't know of any other long-running game series that has a lore as developed and constant as long as TES has been going. Maybe WarCraft? But I think Arena is older by a few years.

Warcraft lore isn't as good IMO

 

[ryseing]

I think I remember Michael Kirkbride writing about having "discussions" with Vivec, as if Vivec sort of talked to him from the game and helped him write the sermons. That guy is the best kind of crazy.

Have you ever read You by Austin Grossman? He worked at Looking Glass in the 90s. The book is about a studio that is a mishmash of Looking Glass and Bethesda, and the main character does something similar to Kirkbride. Definitely worth a read.

 

[Lashley]

So OP, did you disappear or get godlike powers?

 

[LinkSlayer64]

Meh i hate the it's all a dream story explanation in movies/games/books etc it was cool in the Matrix but it pisses me off now.

Majora's Mask one (source is that new Zelda book that is released in Japan) already made me my roll eyes. So all the side quests i did for those people and all other emotional things in that game, yeah when Link leaves termina it stops existing anyway so Kafei's whole sad sidequest yeah....

It makes emotional or meaningfull story/sidequests/gameplay less impactfull since who cares it's all a dream/fake reality.
Sure it's all fiction and fake but i just find that it's all a dream/fake reality ruins character/lore development.

Honestly i did not know this about Elder Scrolls and it dissapoints me a bit i am not heavy in ES lore but i did like what i knew and this sours it a bit for me.

Will still ofcourse play the next big ES singleplayer game.

I just looked up the Majora's Mask thing. Fuck that.

 

[C.Mongler]

And here I was thinking this game was just about vikings and cat-dudes and shit. Wow.

 

[PandaPedinte]

If I could become a godlike being I'd improve the fucking combat first thing. Then I'd move it to a new god damn engine as Amaranth needs to stop dreaming in GameBryo.

Lol. Amazing post.

 

[Col.Asher]

Are the deadric Princes CHIM? Does that mean the hero of Kvatch achieved CHIMhood through madness? So many questions.

 

[AWizardDidIt]

This is kind of like when I realized the Wizardry and Might & Magic series (pre-reboot) were actually about aliens and spaceships with a fantasy setting painted over them.

 

[Trojita]

So you figured it out OP? How does it feel turning into godhood?

Spoiler

TES has the best lore

It feels good

So OP, did you disappear or get godlike powers?

doglike powers

If I could become a godlike being I'd improve the fucking combat first thing. Then I'd move it to a new god damn engine as Amaranth needs to stop dreaming in GameBryo.

The true chains over Tamriel is Gamebryo. Emancipate yourself!

 

[Kuraudo]

You should check out C0DA. It's not officially canon, but it's a total mindfuck, taking place in a far-future Elder Scrolls universe.

Just looked this up. My mind is still reeling.

TES lore is one hell of a rabbit hole to go down.

 

[Tame Deity]

I always liked Elder Scrolls lore and even did a deep ass dive some few years ago, but never found this out. This is some cool ass shit.

 

[Peroroncino]

Is that what happened to the dwemer? Realized it was a dream and dissapeared?

Now that would be one way to solve it and blew the minds of everybody who doesn't know about that.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

I just looked up the Majora's Mask thing. Fuck that.

Can I read up on this somewhere online?

 

[Kalentan]

Just looked this up. My mind is still reeling.

TES lore is one hell of a rabbit hole to go down.

And online has only made it a bigger rabbit hole.

Since for all it's complaints on the three factions, I know a lot of Lore buffs seem to really enjoy a lot of the information ESO gives that other games neglected.

 

[I'm new be nice]

I always liked Elder Scrolls lore and even did a deep ass dive some few years ago, but never found this out. This is some cool ass shit.

Yeah this one's new to me. I was curious about the moons and that's when I started to realize how strange it all gets.

Apparently the stars are not stars but portals or something?

 

[TissueBox]

And here I was thinking this game was just about vikings and cat-dudes and shit. Wow.

Read the books, then check out the wikis, then surf through the Imperial Library online.

'Canon' is a touchy topic in the fandom, but several notable minds behind the game's lore have created one of mainstream gaming's most fascinating world set-ups, especially because they're the foundation of the actual games which scratch but the surface while hinting at the deeper layers below (or rather, above) despite never actually exploring it all the way (which, in fairness, is probably for the best).

This is postmodern metaphysical mindscrew spec fiction in its loveliest babehs..! It would be cliche and exhausted by now if it weren't for the ambiguous, 'unreliable narrator' approach taken by the series.

 

[sirap]

I legitimately thought OP was trolling until I did my own research.

Now I don't know what to feel anymore.

 

[Darkstorne]

Kirkbride had some crazy awesome ideas. TES lore even has a time travelling Android for example. And the dream theory works for real life as well, if any of you have practiced lucid dreams it's the exact same thing - normally you wake up when you realise you are dreaming, but if you can focus the willpower to accept the dream and stay in it you can do literally anything. I flew once!

C0DA can sod off though. That felt like a middle finger to the franchise more than anything else.

 

[Majima Everywhere System]

Add recommended addition readings please.

 

[Kalentan]

C0DA can sod off though. That felt like a middle finger to the franchise more than anything else.

I sort of agree, if just that if they acknowledge it, then the entire series is sort of on limited time.

 

[JonnyDBrit]

Yeah this one's new to me. I was curious about the moons and that's when I started to realize how strange it all gets.

Apparently the stars are not stars but portals or something?

They're basically believed to be holes torn into reality when a bunch of the original spirits that existed prior to 'reality' (in the mortal sense of such) ran away from the creation of the mortal world. The elves believe that their souls come from any spirits that weren't able to get away being stuck inside physical bodies and limited to being mortal and shit. IIRC, this is actually important to the whole ban on Talos in Skyrim as the Thalmor think

Spoiler

his continued existence is what maintains the physical world, and thus, if they can have him cease to exist - by having people stop believing in him, because faith is weird in the Elder Scrolls - then Mundus ceases to exist, and they get to be ethereal spirits

.