boredandlazy
Member
The dude with the bloodied mouth? And how for some people that's seemingly an acceptable outcome for not complying with being told you're not allowed to have the seat you've paid for and are sitting in.
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United Airlines violently drags a doctor off a plane so employee could take his seat
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The dude with the bloodied mouth? And how for some people that's seemingly an acceptable outcome for not complying with being told you're not allowed to have the seat you've paid for and are sitting in.
They can't do that. How would you feel if you were the "next" person selected, and they only came to you because the guy before you resisted? You would feel that why should he get to stay and I have to go? That would have honestly been worse PR than what they got.
The amount of inconvenience this airline was willing to put it's passengers through in this circumstance should have made them realize they need to open their wallets to get some cooperation. When they stood firm at $800 they screwed themselves over. I'm not saying they need to go into the thousands all the time, but this time it was necessary, because the next flight wasn't until the following afternoon and they are bumping people due to their own logistical incompetence, not due to overbooking.
You're saying he should take responsibility. What about United? Maybe they should take responsibility for fucking up and find alternative accommodations that work for everyone. Put your employees on the next flight, everyone already boarded ffs
A man that has his face busted up ?
You know what they could have done when he refused and said he was a doctor and had to see patients?
A manager could have said
"You know sir, we understand you have important considerations and we apologize profusely for the inconvenience.
We would like to point out that when you booked your ticket you accepted the possibility of being asked to get out for compensation, but in the spirit of accomodation we would like to provide you with the chance to prove your circumstances by coming with us to the terminal.
If what you say is correct and you are a doctor needed for patients, we will allow you to reembark with a $100 compensation for the disturbance.
Otoh, if not, you accept to give up your seat and you will be compensated accordingly to our guidelines. If you refuse to follow us, you lose the right to bid on upcoming offers anyway."
Then if the guy still refuse and won't budge, you increase the bid.
A manager could have said
"You know sir, we understand you have important considerations and we apologize profusely for the inconvenience.
We would like to point out that when you booked your ticket you accepted the possibility of being asked to get out for compensation, but in the spirit of accomodation we would like to provide you with the chance to prove your circumstances by coming with us to the terminal.
If what you say is correct and you are a doctor needed for patients, we will allow you to reembark with a $100 compensation for the disturbance.
Otoh, if not, you accept to give up your seat and you will be compensated accordingly to our guidelines. If you refuse to follow us, you lose the right to bid on upcoming offers anyway."
Then if the guy still refuse and won't budge, you increase the bid.
Good. It's maddening that United continued to spit on that customer in the CEOs responses. About time they start viewing all of their customers as people and treat them with a degree of respect.
Also, those Chicago officers that assaulted him need to be investigated.
MisterFalcon
Member
Has anyone talked to the patients yet ? I'm really curious what exactly is going on when a doctor has patients waiting for him hundreds of miles away, is he some sort of specialist that travels around the country ?
There's dozens of images already posted in this thread with just his face...but you posted something with underlined text we've also already seen. So I wasn't sure if there was something untranslated you were trying to get at.
Mr. Giggles
Member
Yes, if united tanks (hypothetically) that would leave a lot of inventory and talent that will be absorbed by the competition.
It really should not matter if he was a doctor or unemployed or whatever.
autumnleaf
Member
That isn't important at all. He could have had an appointment with his couch sat in his pants eating beans from a tin. What he needed to travel for is not the story.
AlexFlame116
Member
I think he was talking about looking for the comment defending United.
OverBlood 3
Banned
If he's a doctor invariably he'll have patients. That's all there is to it.
NeoGold123
Member
Is talking to the patients at this point really necessary? I'm sure doctors, like other professions, have the need to travel at times, too.
I got the image straight from the CNN article, but no, I was specifically referring to the busted face.
I can't read chinese
I'm surprised how many people are saying United had to choose between involuntarily bumping or having the crew miss the other flight. That's not true at all, they just needed to offer more/better compensation to get more volunteers. If they just offered $800 cash instead of an $800 voucher, they'd probably have gotten people, if not, offer a little more. It'd cost them a hell of a lot less than this mess, which will cost them millions.
guybrushfreeman
Unconfirmed Member
There's no way that would've been worse PR than assaulting a person
Uhhh doctors go on vacations and business trips. Maybe he was on vacation for the past week and he has a full schedule to get back to at work.
BronsonLee
Member
This is like a comedy minefield of errors at this point
Forget About United Staff
Involuntarily Bump 3 People
Call The Cops On The Last Guy
Play Basketball With His Head
Have A Terrible Callous First Response
Make A Better One, Then Fuck It Up With Private Letter to Employees
Like it just keeps going
Forget About United Staff
Involuntarily Bump 3 People
Call The Cops On The Last Guy
Play Basketball With His Head
Have A Terrible Callous First Response
Make A Better One, Then Fuck It Up With Private Letter to Employees
Like it just keeps going
Audioboxer
Member
In the wake of this and the debates being brought to the surface about what airlines can do with overbooked flights, in general, we can try and pressure for it to be made illegal.
To understand why it happens you go down the rabbit hole of understanding airline ticket prices and the race to the bottom of passengers wanting the cheapest prices possible to travel across the country. Airlines claim to do it to make up for loss in people not travelling or cancelling at the last minute, empty seats, and say that outweighs the costs they have to spend in the likes of the figures above of 132k passengers bumped in a calendar year. That is to say more money would be lost from empty seats versus the amount of money that has to be given out in compensation. So the airlines say overbooking is the lesser of the two evils if passengers main concerns are rock bottom prices to travel. Everyone claims to say they'll pay more for quality, but the bigger core of any service industry tends to be price sensitive, not always quality sensitive (although people do demand great quality even at the cheapest prices). In todays world of "comparemyticketprices.com" sites, the majority are always sorting by lowest price.
Having these debates isn't inherently defending it but trying to get to the bottom of why it happens, if it can be stopped and what the consequences are for stopping it. One opinion may be for the money it can save on ticket prices maybe the short-term step is demanding airlines don't assault passengers before going right to we need to abolish overbooking asap? Considering how long overbooking has been going on with relatively few PR issues/0 people being assaulted, is that really the main issue here, or is the real issue that UA brought on police to drag someone violently off a plane?
Many including me have said multiple times, the guy said he was a doctor and was very clear in saying he wasn't leaving, leave him alone and move onto someone else. Considering involuntary bumping is cash in hand, I'm sure another passenger selected randomly would have given in just like the 3 prior to this man did. Then there would have been no assault and no PR nightmare. That simple. How the cabin crew and manager couldn't accept that and went right to calling on security is mind-numbing. Even if involuntary is suppose to mean strictly involuntary, management needs to be able to use it's head to look at SOME cases in a case-by-case basis. Not always tow a rigid company policy line. This is the perfect example of what happens in a company when there is 0 autonomy at ALL times. You actually could use this in business schools as a prime example of what happens when management does not think on the spot, and instead answers to chain of command like they are literally IN chains.
You don't get cash in hand for voluntary bumping. You literally HAVE to hold out for involuntary to get cash. Therefore logic would dictate there would literally be someone else on that plane who would jump at the ability to get 1k in their bank account to travel 24 hours later. They cannot get it from volunteering, though. Or even if it's not "jump at it", certainly agree in a disgruntled manner, but agree nonetheless. Hence as I just said above UA cabin crew and management acting like there was NO other option than to force this man led to this mess.
3 people got off the plane for the cash who originally did not volunteer. That tells you people may well "agree" once the offer of compensation is far more attractive than flying vouchers and a hotel. Although, maybe it was best for their own sakes they agreed as not to get dragged off the flight...
According to some posters defending United ITT, this (picture to the left) is okay if you "don't comply" or rather - not do exactly what you paid for without risking to get beaten up.
Fucking christ.
You have to be brainwashed from childhood to worship the Police/ so-called free market capitalism to think like that. A company can treat you like an animal and it's their right because muuuuuh private property muuuuh free market muuuuuuh you refuse to comply Sadly too many people on Gaf seem to fall in this category.
I have to admit that I had never read this kind of stuff before I started to post on Gaf. Really seems to be an american thing.
Not in of itself, no, but it could have led to something worse, as the person they moved on to would have been furious.
bigmit3737
Member
Apparently CEO is depending their actions , calling passenger "belligerent and disruptive "
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/un...f-plane-disruptive-and-belligerent-2017-04-11
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/un...f-plane-disruptive-and-belligerent-2017-04-11
As I said earlier in this thread:
You see the mentality in just about every industry.
BoogieWoogie
Banned
https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/851781248871739392
Think of the savings by not offering the passengers more money to leave the plane though (not even including the payout to the guy himself).
BronsonLee
Member
DudeWithNoName
Member
I hope the other airlines are taking notes. Maybe something good will come out of this.
guybrushfreeman
Unconfirmed Member
This may be one of the worst PR disasters of all time. Your fantasy scenario doesn't begin to compare to the image of an elderly doctor bleeding from the face after being assaulted by police trying to plead with staff that he had to stay on the flight to attend his patients at home. There may be nothing that compares to this
Auto-Reply
Member
I find it somewhat problematic that the amount of compesation is stated to be the culprit here, more than once in this thread.
The ammount of money/compensation doesn't even matter here, they fucked up by prioritizing their own employees over paying customers.
Plane is full of rich people, they don't even blink at a 50k offer - solution = Security dragging people off the plane!
BronsonLee
Member
Then you will never give up your seat
Just more money wouldn't do it, it would continously spiral out of control.
Mix of lottery and increasing offer.
$400... No takers? Pick 4. If they refuse,
($100 at a time) increase the bid slightly and ask. If again no taker, pick more randomly but the previous 4 are barred from the offers. Rinse and repeat. If anyone is interested in money and get picked, they'll have to accept.
It was at least a starting point before bringing in security though. No amount of money was getting that doctor off the plane, but maybe if they ponied up some more, it would have got someone to take his place.
What am I even reading here.
Breaking news, doctors can have off days and vacations that they can use before returning to work.
Such a crazy concept, right?!
old manatee
Banned
I also think that United is lying about the doctor being chosen at random. That witness account claimed that he started to volunteer, found out how long he had to wait for a new flight, and then decided against it. Then I'm supposed to believe that a computer​ randomly chose that same guy for disposal?
Um, no? You just offer more money. Case closed.
My version works better because you have an incentive to take the bid instead of waiting.
It seems everyone on board that plane agrees with you.
FAA needs to consider raising the max amount and giving the consumer choice of cash.
Yup ... I don't get it.
Every one has a natural instinct that urges you to stand with the little guy. It's like survival instinct. There's also something called empathy. Why would you support the big guys who already have all the power and privilege they need and more ? Don't these people realize that they're one of the little guys and that they're almost defenseless ?
It makes me so fucking sad.
You sound elitist. Do you look down upon people who are not intelligent? I dont understand what you are saying.
You want him to complain afterwards... to who? To some customer service rep? And then what. All they have in power is place him on the next flight. Perhaps that flight would be too late for him. So if he follows the rules as you say then he knows for sure he will miss his flight. If he kicks up resistance.. He atleast has a chance.
And him screaming is childish? What about people who have spider phobia. Is it childish that they dont have a intelligent proper response to seeing a spider? Because unless you live in florida or Australia.. a spider is harmless. So screaming is no use. How do you know what reason he screamed. Maybe it was bad childhood memories.. Maybe it was his defence to not get kicked out. He had NOTHING to loose. Comply to rules.... = kicked out of airplane. Scream = kicked out of airplane. Both loose/loose
And actually in this case... he will probely sue them for a lot of money. So you can argue this was the 'intelligent' response.
According to a flight analyst who was just on CNN, he would have been due much more than $800, for the inconvenience of delayed bags, flight delay of 18 hours, etc. She was talking $5000+. So while they may not have offered more than $800, any passenger who took the next flight should have received much more than that.
NeOak
Member
How did you think this would be a good post? Seriously.
old manatee
Banned
BronsonLee
Member
If I'm one of the three that got off the flight I'd bitch at United until I got that
Wel, there are people who thought dragging an innocent man off a plane was a good idea, so
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