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[enzo_gt]

The story of Uber continues to intrigue.

According to The Information, the ride-hailing company's covert software-based program called "Hell" spied on its staunchest competitor's drivers from 2014 to early 2016. It's called Hell, because it served as the counterpart to "God View" or "Heaven," Uber's in-company app that tracked its own drivers and passengers. Unlike God View, which was widely available to corporate employees, only top executives along with select data scientists and personnel knew about Hell.

The program apparently started when Uber decided to create fake Lyft rider accounts and fooled its rival's system into thinking they were in various locations around the city. Those fake riders were positioned in a grid to give Uber the entire view of a city and all of Lyft's drivers within it. As a result, the company can see info on up to eight of its competitor's nearest drivers per fake rider.

That allowed the team running Hell to learn of each driver's habits, which, in turn, helped them to figure out which drivers practice "double-apping." In other words, they used the data they gathered to pinpoint the Lyft drivers that drove for them, as well.

Travis Kalanick and his select employees then executed a plan meant to entice double-appers to drive exclusively for them. First, the Hell program would send more riders to double-appers than to those who drove solely for Uber. Then, the company would give them special bonuses for meeting a certain number of rides per week. Considering the program's data revealed that 60 percent of Lyft's drivers were double-apping, Uber ended up doling out tens of millions of dollars a week in bonuses. Clearly, loyalty didn't pay for those who stuck with Uber those years.

Source.

 

[Slayven]

How long before we find out Uber HQ was built with child labor?

 

[WedgeX]

Encapsulating the very worst in capitalism.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

lmao what the hell is going on at this company

 

[Glass Shark]

God, fuck literally everything about Uber. Every time you think you've seen it all...

And surely this is the type of anti-competitive move that would be investigated, right?

 

[Veritigo_X]

Realllly glad I didn't take them up on a job offer I got a couple years ago. I imagine it's going to be hard for their employees to find work.

 

[louiedog]

The wording on all of this sounds sinister, but I don't really see it as evil or anything any more than when other businesses keep tabs on the competition to get ahead of them.

 

[radios shipping overview]

This company is insane. SV hubris embodied.

 

[Ashby]

At what point is it going to be more ethical to drive drunk than give money to Uber

 

[Man God]

How long before we find out Uber HQ was built with child labor?

Pedophile ring first.

 

[Foffy]

This company is really trying everything to do to make money in the most brazen, fastest, and most exploitative way possible.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

I remember a Lyft driver telling me this about Uber back in 2014/2015, I thought it was bullshit. Huh.

 

[Flying Toaster]

This company is really trying everything to do to make money in the most brazen, fastest, and most exploitative way possible.

Just like 99% of startups.

I am not defending the practices of Uber but these things are not new. I am glad it is coming out though.

 

[faceless007]

This almost certainly would have been using Lyft in direct violation of their TOS. That's not illegal, but if nothing else it demonstrates the corporate mindset that it doesn't need to play by anyone else's rules. Presumably the company wouldn't blithely accept a competitor breaking Uber's TOS in a similar way.

 

[Cat Party]

This company is really trying everything to do to make money in the most brazen, fastest, and most exploitative way possible.

Uber doesn't make money. They are trying to run their competitors out of business or set them up for acquisition. Then they can make money.

 

[Reverend Funk]

Lmao the hell program

 

[Foffy]

Uber doesn't make money. They are trying to run their competitors out of business or set them up for acquisition. Then they can make money.

That's what makes their efforts darkly hilarious.

 

[Sunster]

lol Uber is so gross

 

[goodfella]

I fail to see what is so wrong about this? Just seems very smart to me.

 

[elostyle]

So beneath the hyperbolic writing of this article, what they appear to have done is to data mine whatever Lyft's API is by creating dummy accounts and querying for nearby drivers.

Probably is a terms of service violation.

 

[louiedog]

I fail to see what is so wrong about this? Just seems very smart to me.

Yeah I'm not really getting it. Competitors break rules of retail stores by coming in and recording prices, layouts, etc. Companies incentivize you to sign up for their service by paying termination fees for their competitors, price matching + 10%, etc. This seems related to both of those and people like those things.

I think people are mostly up in arms to keep the hate train going this time.

 

[KevinRo]

This is old news?

Lyft and Uber were always trying to poach other drivers. How the hell did you think they found out about the 'other' drivers?

 

[louiedog]

This is old news?

Lyft and Uber were always trying to poach other drivers. How the hell did you think they found out about the 'other' drivers?

Amazon too. They were poaching drivers for their deliveries. I don't know what methods they used though.

 

[Izuna]

I have to say, that was pretty smart, haha

 

[Timeaisis]

The hits just keep on coming. Good lord this company.

 

[Soriku]

 

[WeAreStarStuff]

That's pretty clever.

 

[KingV]

Yeah I'm not really getting it. Competitors break rules of retail stores by coming in and recording prices, layouts, etc. Companies incentivize you to sign up for their service by paying termination fees for their competitors, price matching + 10%, etc. This seems related to both of those and people like those things.

I think people are mostly up in arms to keep the hate train going this time.

The scummy part is where they are effectively hacking their competitors app for information. It's very close to being corporate espionage, but not quite.

 

[commedieu]

Just like 99% of startups.

I am not defending the practices of Uber but these things are not new. I am glad it is coming out though.

Did someone make a declaration of this being new?

 

[spwolf]

I fail to see what is so wrong about this? Just seems very smart to me.

yeah, dont see whats wrong with sabotaging competition by calling in fake rides so their drivers would be pissed off and you can get them to your side.

Not a first thing Uber has done to sabotage Lyft... last year there were articles about corporate espionage and sabotage.

 

[TurboButts]

i don't see anything wrong with this. sounds pretty clever to me

 

[Kyzer]

Wow so they make it seem like the grass is greener on their side but then its not

Just like 99% of startups.

I am not defending the practices of Uber but these things are not new. I am glad it is coming out though.

Uber is a startup?

And you say that like what they did here is something every business does but its really not and its pretty specific to driving apps lol

 

[Zelenogorsk]

How long before we find out Uber HQ was built with child labor?

At this point I wouldn't be suprised to find it was built on an ancient Indian burial ground.

 

[ColdPizza]

Uber doesn't make money. They are trying to run their competitors out of business or set them up for acquisition. Then they can make money.

Their plan is to get people hooked and soak up as much market share as they can before jacking up prices.

Following that Amazon playbook.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

i don't see anything wrong with this. sounds pretty clever to me

Fraudulently ordering 100 pizzas so the new shop across the street wastes time and resources delivering to an abandoned shack instead of servicing real customers isn't a normal part of doing business.

 

[Kyzer]

Fraudulently ordering 100 pizzas so the new shop across the street wastes time and resources delivering to an abandoned shack instead of servicing real customers isn't a normal part of doing business.

And you ordered the pizzas to your own pizza shop where you showed off how much more you make in tips cuz theres more business and then after successfully stealing their employees you reveal its actually less pay than they were originally getting and all the business you were showing off before was also fake

 

[sangreal]

Fraudulently ordering 100 pizzas so the new shop across the street wastes time and resources delivering to an abandoned shack instead of servicing real customers isn't a normal part of doing business.

but they did nothing of the sort

they just used the live view to see where drivers, cross-referenced it with their own system, and came up with a pretty decent incentive program to entice dual-drivers into favoring uber (which failed)

they weren't hailing lyft cars or wasting anyones time

 

[louiedog]

The scummy part is where they are effectively hacking their competitors app for information. It's very close to being corporate espionage, but not quite.

WTF? How is it close to corporate espionage? It's the same info you get by opening up the app on your phone.

Fraudulently ordering 100 pizzas so the new shop across the street wastes time and resources delivering to an abandoned shack instead of servicing real customers isn't a normal part of doing business.

It's not like that at all. It's more like some people have their app open who aren't actually looking for a ride. In your analogy it's more like they got the pizza place to spill a few flour particles.

 

[phaonaut]

The things they're doing is terrible, but at the same time impressive.

 

[Paskil]

I needed a ride for the first time in a few years two weeks ago after returning a rental car. I called a local cab company.

 

[TurboButts]

Fraudulently ordering 100 pizzas so the new shop across the street wastes time and resources delivering to an abandoned shack instead of servicing real customers isn't a normal part of doing business.

ok cool but what do you think about this uber article tho

 

[Malvolio]

It's cool, the free market will correct it something.

 

[Slayven]

The things they're doing is terrible, but at the same time impressive.

Makes you think what would happen if they put the energy into actually turning a profit

 

[TwoDurans]

I needed a ride for the first time in a few years two weeks ago after returning a rental car. I called a local cab company.

You should still use a rideshare app. Lyft isn't perfect but at least they have their shit together. Cabs are crazy expensive, and in some cases the drivers manipulate their passengers. I remember have one cab force me to go to an ATM because he wouldn't take my credit card. This was after I'd returned from a long flight from NY to Dallas. I complained and got my money back, and the driver got a point on his cab cert, but how many people just deal with this and don't complain? I refuse to trust cab companies anymore.

 

[SugarDaddy]

This almost certainly would have been using Lyft in direct violation of their TOS. That's not illegal, but if nothing else it demonstrates the corporate mindset that it doesn't need to play by anyone else's rules. Presumably the company wouldn't blithely accept a competitor breaking Uber's TOS in a similar way.

I thought it is technically illegal to violate TOS through the C.F.A.A. ?

 

[louiedog]

I needed a ride for the first time in a few years two weeks ago after returning a rental car. I called a local cab company.

I'm glad it worked out for you. I'm not giving the cabs companies where I live any more money. They've made me wait for ridiculous amounts of time, sent me abusive drivers, only let me pay by credit card about 20% of the time, and would sometimes refuse to come out where I live which isn't even that far from downtown. The latter two, btw, are them refusing to follow regulations. A pregnant neighbor mine had 2 cabs refuse her service at around 7 PM. Fuck them.

 

[therealist]

This is clever, you can tell who read the excerpts from OP and who didn't.

 

[samn]

I'm glad it worked out for you. I'm not giving the cabs companies where I live any more money. They've made me wait for ridiculous amounts of time, sent me abusive drivers, only let me pay by credit card about 20% of the time, and would sometimes refuse to come out where I live which isn't even that far from downtown. The latter two, btw, are them refusing to follow regulations. A pregnant neighbor mine had 2 cabs refuse her service at around 7 PM. Fuck them.

The cabs in my city had a drive-slow protest that stopped ambulances from reaching people in need. They also made my friend late to see the Star Wars movie with me. Fuck them to hell

 

[Operations]

That's pretty ingenious actually. Perverse, but smart. Also, if they hadn't, surely Lyft and the others would have beaten them to it (and probably did) anyways.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

I needed a ride for the first time in a few years two weeks ago after returning a rental car. I called a local cab company.

All of my experiences with cab drivers involved them refusing to give me rides because I was with a black friend.

Uber it is.