Have you ever read a DCEU thread LMAO
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Rime Creative Director: "Reading Neogaf made me cry for two days"
- Thread starter Ahasverus
- Start date
What was the deal about Shinobi, if someone could enlighten me on who he was, as I've heard his name pop up quite a bit since the whole debacle with Mass Effect Andromeda went down.
Yes, because it's the fault of the Switch and not the publisher who've set the prices. Makes sense.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
Just some dude who was a regular poster here and frequent twitter poster about gaming stuff. He's close with some guys at Bioware so he got ME:A early and posted a thread of his postive impressions on the game.
He got slammed as just being a marketing shill for Bioware, especially after reviews came out and were very mixed. Some posters were very personal in attacking him. He basically rage quit GAF at that point and hasn't been back. Members couldn't let it go though and even the first ME:A review thread got locked as people were still attacking shinobi. It was pretty pathetic as it was just some dude who liked the game, as do/did many of us who actually played it (even if it has tons of flaws) who got attacked and ran off.
Anyway, as for the thread topic, it just is what it is. There's a vocal minority here that posts frequently and aggressively that seem to be overwhelmingly negative, nitpicky etc. about all things gaming that does make this place pretty miserable. I wouldn't be here if the OTs and community threads weren't generally good and most of that stuff left for general threads, sales threads and preview/review threads. Then you have the fanboy console warriors that are another vocal minority that create a lot of grief.
That said, it again is what it is, and as Evil Lore posted earlier in this thread as long as people are not getting into personal attacks people can have whatever opinions they want. Devs that can't take the criticism should just stay away-especially if it's not a niche game aimed at hardcore types as that critical minority here has tastes that are largely irrelevant in the larger gaming market anyway. For the rest of us, just avoid threads where that type of discussion congregates (review and preview threads etc.) and make heavy use of the ignore user feature. Only way the site is remotely enjoyable to me, and even then I'm still on the verge of leaving as I think I enjoy gaming more when I stay the hell away from gamers.
Is it getting a physical release on Switch? Nintendo has required digital and physical versions cost the same I believe. Price of the carts drives up the physical release more than the usual disc and case pricing and thus the digital versions get a bump too.
Tumle
Member
Wow very sexist and great job at trying to deflect the criticism... like a lot of the other posts in this thread "well everyone else is doing it"
But cudos on the sexist part..
From the top of my head I can tell you Rushy (DriveClub) is active here and also someone involved in Ratchet and Clank posts here regularly.
And that's just the two I know of. It's not like I actively look for devs.
Maiden Voyage
Gold™ Member
You don't have to be Republican to notice.
GAF is a great community for many things. However, I think due to its sheer size it's prone to much of what any community is. It allows tons of hyperbole and downright idiotic claims, personal attacks, and the bashing of dev without any evidence to warrant it. In this case, yes the RIME team poorly managed their PR in the early stages and deserve criticism for that', but some of what of said is honestly out of bounds. Being told the game you're making simply doesn't exist and it's all some big lie is degrading a team without any backing to the claims. and once that happened, it grew into this big hatefest over a "fake game" with little evidence their efforts were actually fake.
It's not just that though - this turned into a greater commentary over GAF's role in the gaming industry. I use to defend GAF on YouTube and other comment areas or forums from those that despised the place because I didn't see what they saw. But the longer I've been here, the less and less I want to defend GAF, because I kind of understand why some don't like it. How easy it is to get banned for say, an opinion that's against the grain on say, anything to do with Anita, while drive by shitposts just stirring the pot get no actions taken and cause tons of thread derailing. It feels like the freedom of speech at times is only allows if your viewpoints match those of the mod team, and you'll have better time here if you just want to troll.
Been banned once personally for a viewpoint that went against the grain on some controversial topic. My feeling from that experience and my appeal? You have to agree with the popular opinion, or at least with the mods viewpoints, or you can't be here. Since then, I just avoid topics of controversy. Jontron? Anita? If I say anything in those topics I keep it vanilla. Because I'm afraid of getting banned for simply disagreeing.
I can't imagine what it would be like for a game maker. To be constantly told how bad something is that no one has seen and maybe due to contractual obligations, you can't even talk about. I love many aspects of GAF, but it gets really nasty at times and sometimes bans feel random as someone could be absolutely saying something trashy but it agrees with a mod so they are fine. Nothing I have said has even been that bad or that driven in hate at all. Doesn't really matter I guess.
I love it here, but you have to take the good with the bad. If I was a game maker, I'd stop paying attention to places like GAF. At least until after the game is released. Proof is in the pudding, until then it's all noise.
It's not just that though - this turned into a greater commentary over GAF's role in the gaming industry. I use to defend GAF on YouTube and other comment areas or forums from those that despised the place because I didn't see what they saw. But the longer I've been here, the less and less I want to defend GAF, because I kind of understand why some don't like it. How easy it is to get banned for say, an opinion that's against the grain on say, anything to do with Anita, while drive by shitposts just stirring the pot get no actions taken and cause tons of thread derailing. It feels like the freedom of speech at times is only allows if your viewpoints match those of the mod team, and you'll have better time here if you just want to troll.
Been banned once personally for a viewpoint that went against the grain on some controversial topic. My feeling from that experience and my appeal? You have to agree with the popular opinion, or at least with the mods viewpoints, or you can't be here. Since then, I just avoid topics of controversy. Jontron? Anita? If I say anything in those topics I keep it vanilla. Because I'm afraid of getting banned for simply disagreeing.
I can't imagine what it would be like for a game maker. To be constantly told how bad something is that no one has seen and maybe due to contractual obligations, you can't even talk about. I love many aspects of GAF, but it gets really nasty at times and sometimes bans feel random as someone could be absolutely saying something trashy but it agrees with a mod so they are fine. Nothing I have said has even been that bad or that driven in hate at all. Doesn't really matter I guess.
I love it here, but you have to take the good with the bad. If I was a game maker, I'd stop paying attention to places like GAF. At least until after the game is released. Proof is in the pudding, until then it's all noise.
How the hell is that sexist? Because he said the world girl? So if I say bro, or boy is it sexist? Stop trying to find sexism and oppression where there is none.
Calibos
Member
Geez...I always wondered about this situation and the references. It's pretty tough to have a positive opinion on the Gaf (the internet in general really), if something is critically mediocre...Not sure how to fix that. I feel for game developers who pour their lives and passion into something only to see it trashed online. The world sucks at looking at the positive.
To steal an Austin Walker turn of phrase, NeoGAF definitely loves to dunk on things. In some ways it comes from a good place, as I feel this forum tries to be very pro-consumer with regards to not getting caught up in marketing hype/pre-order culture. It's good to be weary of a product and any perceived shadiness until it makes it to market.
That being said, I think this account is a sobering reminder that there are real people behind the business decisions and development, and not always some massive corporate monolith. If more developers were candid about their reactions to threads here on an emotional level, I wonder if that point would stick with people more. Honestly though, if I were a game developer mid-project, I would probably steer clear of threads about my work until the final product was done.
As an aside, the whole Shinobi situation in that Mass Effect thread was utter garbage and showed the worst of this community. It's one thing to beat up on developers, who are in a sense trying to sell a product and earn your money. It's another to shit on a trusted member of the community until he feels unwelcome. How embarrassing in retrospect too given the games Metacritic score...people were acting like it was impossible for a fan of the franchise to like it.
That being said, I think this account is a sobering reminder that there are real people behind the business decisions and development, and not always some massive corporate monolith. If more developers were candid about their reactions to threads here on an emotional level, I wonder if that point would stick with people more. Honestly though, if I were a game developer mid-project, I would probably steer clear of threads about my work until the final product was done.
As an aside, the whole Shinobi situation in that Mass Effect thread was utter garbage and showed the worst of this community. It's one thing to beat up on developers, who are in a sense trying to sell a product and earn your money. It's another to shit on a trusted member of the community until he feels unwelcome. How embarrassing in retrospect too given the games Metacritic score...people were acting like it was impossible for a fan of the franchise to like it.
onemanasylum
Banned
Neogaf is pretty mean so it's not for the faint of heart 
.
.It is, yes. Do you have a source for this info by chance, though? I ask because it seems at the least if it is the case there are workarounds, as Puyo Puyo Tetris for example (in some regions) is a different price for physical and digital (and comes with physical bonus items, so if there is such a requirement for physical/digital parity that might be the workaround).
ToysAndMoreClub
Member
NeoGAF alerted me to when this game went down to $29.99 for the Switch version on Amazon and was able to get it for around $23 with the discount. I'm sure that helped others jump on the game as well, even those who had discarded it because of the higher price tag on Switch. Eagerly awaiting its release this summer. Seems like it will turn out good.
This isn't really exclusive to NeoGAF. It just happens to be that gamers are, by far in my opinion, the harshest and most unforgiving critics there are.
Few other mediums encite personal vitriol to the level gaming does.
I'm a working stand-up comedian, and those audiences and critics are puppies compared to gamers.
Few other mediums encite personal vitriol to the level gaming does.
I'm a working stand-up comedian, and those audiences and critics are puppies compared to gamers.
witchedwiz
Member
That's news to me..
I mean as a whole gaf it's fine but at times i see criticism turning into a spitting contest..
The guy working at rime took it too badly (overreacting even) but he's not 100% wrong...
Still given the general impression a pr spiel at the time would have done wonders in both calming down ppl and renew their interest..
Anyway glad the game seems to have turned ok.. One more good game is always better than One more bad game..
ToysAndMoreClub
Member
This is what I had written (and credit to Dystify who alerted us to the price decrease back then)
https://shigerunews.com/2017/04/04/...tendo-switch-version-of-rime-priced-at-29-99/
It is available again, but back to the $39.99 pricetag for Switch.
I didn't say those don't exist. Though I will say that they are as toxic if not more lol. Movie topics are more hilarious than rage inducing. And political topics in general will always get heated, no matter who you talk to or where you are discussing it.
Appreciate this response. I know what you mean.
In some ways, those community thread simulate what I nostalgically think of as "the old internet." The old internet was largely made up of smaller enthusiast sites with a tightly knit groups of members that were extremely dedicated to a particular interest. I can remember old internet forums that narrowly focused on say, The Lord of the Rings or on Star Wars expanded universe stuff. There was some spirited discussion, but the communities were so homogeneous that there tended to be more or less no outright conflict. A good GAF community thread has that feeling, I experience it when I duck into a community thread for niche titles like Shenmue or Yakuza. Everyone loves something and simply wants to share their enthusiasm for it.
The great thing about the internet thing today is that everyone is on it, and everyone has a voice. This is a great thing, but it is also a dreadful, terrible thing, because EVERYONE has a voice.
As the internet world increasingly whirls around big sites and massively popular social networks, the kind of tribal conflicts and destructive behavior that characterize the real world have been completely imported into the digital world. This has happened very fast, much faster than we can come up with norms to try and harmonize the dialogue. The result increasingly feels like pure chaos.
NeoGAF is much better than most of the internet because it is so heavily moderated, but that can produce its own particular pathologies (vicious groupthink surrounding "safe" opinions that seem to match the general mood).
I don't have any solutions, but its worth recognizing that something has gone terribly wrong in the online conversation over the past few years. I don't think it is anyone's fault in particular, it's just a systemic side-effect of the stunning growth of social networking.
Sure, mods can be over zealous sometimes. They're only human, they can make bad calls.
However, usually you have to do more than just present a dissenting opinion. You either have to present the opinion poorly, or the opinion itself could be something gaf won't tolerate, ie: bigotry, sexism, misogyny, racism, etc...
And while the latter can seem unfair, this is their house so we need to abide by their rules.
Not sure which category you fell into, but you need to respect the fact this is their house and their rules, and if you ever feel unfairly treated you can always appeal.
Sure this can cause issues, but I'll take it over most internet communities of this size. Online discussion without this kind of strict moderation can become a cesspit.
Lol what a topic. Not everyone is going to be nice, and not everything should be taken to heart. These are people, but this is also the Internet. Some people just don't care about you and yours, and it's a bummer, but this ain't a rainbow emporium. Coming from GameFAQS to here, though, difference is night and day.
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To put it bluntly, I think the signal to noise ratio on GAF isn't that much better than on many of the forums GAF loves to look down on and most of users and posts (definitely not excluding myself from that) don't add any really worthwhile thoughts to many discussions, especially about the dev side of gaming. There's a handful of users who really know their shit and there's the rest of us who don't have to add much beyond opinions and educated guesses. Due to the pretty strict moderation trolls need to be more subtle and the level of discourse may appear to be higher, but I think devs make a mistake when they value opinions on GAF higher than opinions on other gaming forums.
I believe some games or situations just bring out the worse in people. Take for instance Destiny. I absolutely love the game and have been playing it for more hours than I care to admit. The community in the OT is phenomenal and I spend a great majority of my time there when I want to read something about the game but threads about Destiny outside of the OT are the worse "for me" it's like people see the thread name crack their knuckles and get ready to destroy. So i decide to read the OP maybe a few comments then immediate bail to the OT. The hardest thing to do is look away from a wreck. I make sure I keep my eyes forward with games that I really enjoy.
Universal acclaimed games like Horizon which I love and can go into any thread and read it without having to worry about much negativity. Criticism is one thing. Coming into a thread to say you hate everything I just choose to ignore.
Universal acclaimed games like Horizon which I love and can go into any thread and read it without having to worry about much negativity. Criticism is one thing. Coming into a thread to say you hate everything I just choose to ignore.
tl:dr version:
God, grant me the serenity,
To accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things that I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.
;-)
Great post btw...you and EviLore dropping amazing posts.
ToysAndMoreClub
Member
As far as the community goes, the problem is that we have three distinct viewpoints (Microsoft, Nintendo, Sony) that we take to heart and defend to death. Sure, not everyone is like that, but the harshest critics and vocal proponents most of the time can overshadow a much larger group who likes to keep things civil and in perspective.
I do enjoy GAF because there are people here with great knowledge and with great access to information not available anywhere else, but there's a handful of people (and by far the minority here) who likes to (quoting The Dark Knight) "watch the world burn".
I do enjoy GAF because there are people here with great knowledge and with great access to information not available anywhere else, but there's a handful of people (and by far the minority here) who likes to (quoting The Dark Knight) "watch the world burn".
It might help if you read the entire sentence and not just quote the last part.
Also, people are often tone deaf and don't realise their opinion is harmful. For those people, being banned will seem unfair.
This isn't difficult enough to parse to warrant your ? spam.
Professor Renegade
Banned
Gaffers gonna Gaf.
This place can be pretty mean sometimes. I remember Andy from Playtonic would come here and post about Yooka Laylee quite often, and even shown up when people were bashing the Cashino stage. Once the Jontron drama happened I haven't seen him around, and tbh I don't blame him from the stuff I've read online.
The Republican platform and voting is toxic on a fundamental level. It's quite frankly an impossible conversation to have nice discussion about as there's no middle ground now. Not really comparable to being a dick about video games.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-03-10-why-nintendo-switch-games-are-ending-up-more-expensive
And yeah I think the keychains packed in with Puyo Puyo Tetris were a workaround in some areas where the eshop version is $30 vs. the $35 physical. Though if I'm not mistaken it's digital only on PS4 and $25 there so the Swtich version is still more expensive. I'll be getting it digital on Switch anyway as it's a pick up and play game I'd really only play portably anyway--not going to sit down and play Tetris on my big screen when I could be playing whatever AAA game I'm in the middle of at the time.
NeoGAF shines in the many sub-communities, where you have a few dozen regulars and a few score more occasionals who share some common interests. Actual focused discussion can take place in those. The larger GAF gaming news threads just devolve into everyone shouting for attention.
Great post 👏 👏 👏
Edit -
This needs to be in the OP because it provides more context on things which is not including in the OP.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
There's nothing their stopping switch developers from charging lower costs (3DS RRP for games is lower than that of PS4 XB1) Part of it is yes it's costs more to manufacture and distribute but a lot is simply down to it's a new console and developers are looking to profit. The exact same thing was seen in the PS4 and Xb1 launches.
Jesus fuck. I had no idea. I had heard about something like this but didn't understand the full scope until now. I loved shinobi's leaks and hints, and while I didn't think Mass Effect: A turned out as well as he told it I'd never thought to hold it against him as he was speaking from personal opinion. :/
That is cruel as hell...
Oh, gotcha. Thank you both for the clarification. Hopefully if Eurogamer is correct, there are other workarounds to avoid at least digital price parity when it means Switch has a more expensive digital game than on other platforms, if at all possible. I can understand if limited production cart runs make pricing up physical copies inevitable.
I wish we had specific posts that caused the issue. For example I've said that the game looks bland in terms of gameplay to me. I don't apologize for that because it's a sincere and legitimate response to the game trailers. Is the Rime creator upset because there are a thousand people who had sincerely negative responses, or were there people who were just being outright hateful? If the former, he needs to cope with it - that's how internet feedback works. If the latter, yeah that sucks and we need to do better.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
Seems different here as the implication is that Nintendo is requiring eshop and physical releases to be priced the same as part of the licensing agreement with publishers to use the carts. Hard to say for sure though as we haven't gotten the full story from a publisher yet that I'm aware of as the Eurogamer report is the most detailed I could find and pretty vague.
Unless you mean that the publishers could just take a hit by lowering the cost on the physical version. I don't think that would help as many would still bitch about the eshop version costing the same as some just feel digital releases should always be priced lower since they don't involve producing and shipping a physical good.
BumblebeeCody
Member
[skimmed the whole thread after reading OP]
That's the kind of comment that makes me glad I just took up an interest in software development in general rather than games.
That's the kind of comment that makes me glad I just took up an interest in software development in general rather than games.
ToysAndMoreClub
Member
I believe (my personal opinion) the real reason behind the price increase on the Switch version is that they started development late on it, and had budgeted for the PS4 version (which was years in the making) and the Xbox One version. If Switch had been part of the equating at least at the same time as Xbox One joined the fray, they could have relegated their resources better and probably had price parity between all versions of the game.
Because Switch was the last console to join in and done so much later, it is costing them more and they need to recoup some of that.
I had some very negative things to say about Rime around the time that it was revealed that everything they had been pushing as game footage was in fact a completely non-interactive render. If reading those reactions was difficult then I hope the people in question took a long look at themselves and how they were choosing to conduct their business.
However, I don't wish anyone on the team any actual ill will and I agree that it is important to remember that when we slag off on games we are going to be affecting the actual individuals who put work into it. With all that said, I will say that the game is looking better and better as we approach release and it looks like they may have pulled it off after all. Good for them, hopefully the game will be worth the wait and will be a success.
No one should be hoping for a game to be bad just to justify a poor opinion of a developer.
However, I don't wish anyone on the team any actual ill will and I agree that it is important to remember that when we slag off on games we are going to be affecting the actual individuals who put work into it. With all that said, I will say that the game is looking better and better as we approach release and it looks like they may have pulled it off after all. Good for them, hopefully the game will be worth the wait and will be a success.
No one should be hoping for a game to be bad just to justify a poor opinion of a developer.
John Kowalski
Banned
It's implying a relationship between being a girl and having thin skin, and it's sexist because it's a gendered discrimination.
I honestly don't see any issue with that post.