What issue? It explains the situation, which is what the poster I replied to was requesting.
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Rime Creative Director: "Reading Neogaf made me cry for two days"
- Thread starter Ahasverus
- Start date
What issue? It explains the situation, which is what the poster I replied to was requesting.
semiconscious
Member
it can often sadden me at times just how deeply invested, emotionally, some posters can get up here. it's like people looking to fill some kinda hole in themselves. depressing...
King Gilga
Member
Sounds like he's a drama queen. I wonder how many days he's gonna cry for if meta reviews aren't positive.
That said neogaf can be a very very one sided circlejerk and always landslides the majority opinion over differentiating ones.
That said neogaf can be a very very one sided circlejerk and always landslides the majority opinion over differentiating ones.
This used to be a baord where a lot of devs posted, even big ones. Then it grew and grew and more and more toxic people came in being really, really unfriendly with devs, often turning into pile ons. So most devs simply left.
And like with the Rime dev, what did the guy do besides post? None of the GAFFfers had any money riding on the project, he was not an omnipresent social media presence, his game wasn't hyped to high heavens. Yet for some reason some GAFfers felt the need to ruthelssly attack him. I bet some of them had a "Last Guardian" hanging around too, to add to the hypocrisy. And if not, GAF never shat on that game, merely grieving it's possible cancellation.
I wont argue for heavier moderation to the tone of "mind your manners at this table, young man" but sometimes, I wish it was. If I step over line, I'd gladly take a 1-2 month ban if that means others get it too.
And like with the Rime dev, what did the guy do besides post? None of the GAFFfers had any money riding on the project, he was not an omnipresent social media presence, his game wasn't hyped to high heavens. Yet for some reason some GAFfers felt the need to ruthelssly attack him. I bet some of them had a "Last Guardian" hanging around too, to add to the hypocrisy. And if not, GAF never shat on that game, merely grieving it's possible cancellation.
I wont argue for heavier moderation to the tone of "mind your manners at this table, young man" but sometimes, I wish it was. If I step over line, I'd gladly take a 1-2 month ban if that means others get it too.
Omnistalgic
Member
yup, and internet "meaness" has become normalized, so if you complain about it, or god forbid say something on a forum or twitter hurt your feelings, "toughen up" is about all that one can expect to receive.
I really grew up on forums, and like talking to people who share my passions since a lot of my friends I grew up with aren't into gaming as much as I am, but yeah, over the years, it's gotten more and more toxic. I can see my daily post began to dwindle and the goal is to ultimately get off of social media for good.
That said, I will say for this thread and Rime creators, the best thing would be to let the game do the talking. The Drive Club devs, the No Man Sky devs, heck, maybe even Mark Cerny with Knack could all come on GAF and say about the same thing.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
I do agree with this. Neogaf is just it amplified since this is the go to spot for English speaking hardcore gamers to discuss gaming on the internet.
But yeah, while every hobby has this to some degree I've just never seen a community as full as negativity and cynicisms as gaming. I'm sure some are probably out there in hobbies I don't partake, but movie, music and even sports forums don't tend to be as overly critical. Still very critical, and lots of terrible communities out there (especially the unmoderated and poorly moderated ones), but gaming takes the cake IMO.
I think people are just more invested as games cost more and take much more time commitment than a lot of hobbies--especially other entertainment ones where criticisms and reviews are a big part of the culture. In some ways it makes sense that more people are defensive of a game they spent $40-60 on and spent anywhere from 10-100+ hours playing vs. a movie they bought for $20 (or rented for a a couple bucks or watched on cable for no direct cost etc.) and watched in 2 hours. There's also the fanboyism/console warrior nonsense here due to the proprietary nature of gaming with certain games exclusive to certain hardware vs. movies and music being universal formats not tied to any specific hardware maker. So gaming gets the extra defensiveness from people who can only afford one and/or only have time for one console becoming overly loyal to it and overly critical of the other consoles and their exclusives. Where as fanboyism/loyalty in movies and music is mostly things like Star Wars/Star Trek or fans of certain bands etc. that's at least about the content rather than the corporations making hardware that plays the content.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Reminds me:
Except there was some truth to the what was happening with the game. Maybe you came to tears because what was leaked, brought back bad memories of the development period and how things weren't going to well.
Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought it was being presented as an example of a aggressive or toxic post.
Damn...well said. Thanks for this!
Xaero Gravity
NEXT LEVEL lame™
He's not wrong.Reminds me:
And yet Cliff fits in so well here!
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, for games with mass appeal like Gears of War there's absolutely no reason for the developers to give two shits what GAF or other hardcore communities think as they tend to be out of touch with the mainstream gamer market. At least the vocal minority that's most active--GOTY threads are usually full of popular releases when all is said and done--but the community is still a super tiny fragment of the larger market.
For smaller, more niche releases that mostly appeal to the hardcore and not the mainstream, then gauging reaction here and on other forums is more important for devs as that's a bigger chunk of their potential base.
So is this like one of those GAF quantum mechanics things? This board is where tons of developers come all the time and give lots of attention to but its also a place where we've driven them all off at the same time and they never visit because we're terrible.
This is a bit nonsense. You have the weights completely reversed here.
How many examples do you have of companies actually trying to screw gamers over? And I don't mean "mediocre game = screwing gamers" I mean, actually making an effort to trick people into buying their products? I have a sneaking suspicion that the number would fall far short of a million. I honestly don't think the same could said about the reverse.
And the sentiment of "The internet is a tough place, you just need a thick skin" is the sentiment used by assholes to pretend as if they aren't any worse than anyone else.
ToysAndMoreClub
Member
Only real example I can think of is Digital Suicide. No Man's Sky was more a problem of allowing the creator of the game to handle PR talk, when he was not suited for it.
Different people, threads, situations, etc.
Honestly, some of the RIME stuff was, indeed, crossing the line. There was a lot of negativity, a lot of baseless assumptions, a lot of cruel accusations, and a lot of general mob mentality running rampant.
RIME was, and is, a game I'm looking forward to, so it was a rather depressing read for awhile as a large portion of the people posting were rather hostile and dismissive of the game.
It was pretty unwarranted, I thought.
The Albatross
Member
We're a game enthusiast forum that obsesses over very minute details of videogames. The thing that drives NeoGaf to influence game sales is the same thing that drives people to focus on negativity. It's not very different from any enthusiast consumer group... Pro-wrestling enthusiasts, car enthusiasts, music genre enthusiasts.
I'm a software developer and part of improving your product is consumer feedback. You have to tune out destructive consumer feedback and not think of your product as your child, but as a product that you're trying to deliver to customers (if that is, in fact, the case).
I'm a software developer and part of improving your product is consumer feedback. You have to tune out destructive consumer feedback and not think of your product as your child, but as a product that you're trying to deliver to customers (if that is, in fact, the case).
There are still plenty of devs here? Unless you're talking about folks like Dyack.
Lionel Richie
Member
Yes and people get way too angry when you say something that sounds like it goes against the moral principles of the esteemed community. This thread got ridiculous in one bit, you had people being way too aggressive and fucking impolite to defend the idea that people shouldn't be way too aggressive and fucking impolite. How the fuck does that even make sense?
Glass Shark
Banned
.
Spukc
always chasing the next thrill
do people actual read those?
what mostly bothers me in this forum is how easily threads about xbox and Nintendo gets derailed by drive by post or or opening up past mistakes not related to the topic of the thread.
i don't really care about xbox nowadays but i feel bad for the those who support them in this forum, i sometimes see that they can't get excited for something without somebody ruining the thread for them.
i don't really care about xbox nowadays but i feel bad for the those who support them in this forum, i sometimes see that they can't get excited for something without somebody ruining the thread for them.
I get that but it just seems like people use a lot of the stories to try and point out some unseemly underbelly of GAF that they think no one sees or disavows when most are pretty up front that we still have shit posters here, some more slick and subtle than others. I still see a ton of developers post here, some more than others and some who are far more opinionated and loud about it while others just drop in and out seemingly at random. Not every thread about Deformers goes to shit when a developer posts because the Order 1886 wasn't well received here.
Lets not pretend a lot of developers, some big names at that, don't post here because they were banned for making very public and obvious asses of themselves. I think several don't post here much because there comments wouldn't last very long and they're well aware of that and the fact things on GAF tend to reverberate far outside of the confines of this forum for better or for worse so airing your dirty laundry here isn't a great idea. I won't condone the dog piling over every little thing or that we don't have a lot of hyperbole and drama here but I find its far more contained and less overtly ugly and over the top than most any other forum out there.
Bloodporne
Member
I think the 'would you say that to their face?' rule is a good one to live by online.
Then again, I guess that depends on your threshold.
Then again, I guess that depends on your threshold.
ToysAndMoreClub
Member
"Splatoon 2 is not really a sequel. It's a port!". Yeah, people can barely talk about Splatoon 2 or other games here without the conversation going down a cliff. I appreciate good conversations, but those 'drive by posts' need to be eliminated and treated with greater force.
SweetJohnnyCage
Member
I'll speak about my own comments made in various RIME threads. This game was vaporware as far as I was concerned after Sony pulled out and the game went pretty much dark. It seemed like anything Tequila was putting on their Twitter was a lie. Wasn't this game close to done 2 years ago? We got reports from supposed ex-employees telling about working conditions and how the trailer shown at E3 wasn't real, that it was all fabricated just for the trailer and barely any of it was even in the game.
As far as I'm concerned, until this game is on a shelf, it doesn't exist. I've looked forward to this game for too long and I'm tired of being lied to about it.
As far as I'm concerned, until this game is on a shelf, it doesn't exist. I've looked forward to this game for too long and I'm tired of being lied to about it.
That's actually a pretty sensible thing to live by (and post by). I'm going to steal that for many online conversations...
Dusk Golem
A 21st Century Rockefeller
I pre-ordered the game for PC a few days ago. Love the style and it looks up my alley. Wish him luck with the release!
Lys Skygge
Member
I agree. I'm not very interested in Microsoft, so I mostly stay out of the threads. Not sure why others can't do the same. Microsoft seems to be doing a lot of exciting things for their fans, why can't others let them be excited?
slackern1nja
Banned
Eh, the fact that this guy is crying about it makes me want to hate on it even more.
Bloodporne
Member
I know people will think this is a dick/douche thing to say, but in real life situations, I escalate that to 'would I be able to take that person?' and adjust my threshold of 'would I say that to their face?' accordingly. Maybe it's being a New Yorker or whatever but I definitely live by those two lines and it's served me well.
AlexFlame116
Member
Personally I feel that a lot of GAF's reputation is further damaged by the people who are banned from posting in this site again.
They act so bitter and sometimes even claim that they did nothing wrong and they were unfairly banned by the evil community and the tyrannical mods.
They then start attacking GAF in every single way possible. From cherry picking not so good posts made by some of our members to posting links about NeoGAF SJWism and hatred towards the straight male on YouTube videos that we link to this forum.
The other side are the people who want to be a part of this forum but can't because of reasons. They get upset and eventually just straight up hate this site. Finding ways to show how "entitled" we are.
It's very weird.
They act so bitter and sometimes even claim that they did nothing wrong and they were unfairly banned by the evil community and the tyrannical mods.
They then start attacking GAF in every single way possible. From cherry picking not so good posts made by some of our members to posting links about NeoGAF SJWism and hatred towards the straight male on YouTube videos that we link to this forum.
The other side are the people who want to be a part of this forum but can't because of reasons. They get upset and eventually just straight up hate this site. Finding ways to show how "entitled" we are.
It's very weird.
Dusk Golem
A 21st Century Rockefeller
I think you need to look at yourself on where that hate is coming from. I think this is more telling of your own scars and emotional supression rather than the developers. Spiting someone for being open with their emotions is a curious thing with suggestion you view suppression of emotions to be the best approach, and wanting to toss down on others for not suppressing enough. Very backwards way of thinking and sounds like you're externalizing personal issues.
ToysAndMoreClub
Member
People need to be really patience in order to be part of this forum. It literally took me over six months before I was finally accepted into it and allowed to make contributions to the threads. I know we are talking about the "dark side" of this forum, but this is a great platform to be a part of and for the most part, I am really proud of GAF.
Tumle
Member
So referring to a guy as girl, because he thinks he's weak for crying about the shit that got thrown his way.. is not a sexist claim?
Yes he could have used the word boy instead. If he wanted to insinuate that the developer is acting like a little kid that needs to grow up.. but apparently girls cry more than boys right?
I'd have no trouble with that.. other than that it is a childish and bullyish statement that only tryes to make a fool of the developer and not actually trying to defend the things that was posted here about his game, to show him that he was wrong to be that sensitive..
TheJollyCorner
Member
I don't like hearing that comments around here made Raul cry. Exaggerated or not, I don't doubt Mr. Rubio took a lot of what he read to heart. The creative process can be a difficult mental, emotional, and even physical drain when trying to create something for public consumption. My interest in RIME might have fallen a bit (no more Yamaoka music? Or was that ever really a thing?), but there are really a lot of good people around here that devs can have discussions with/get feedback from/ etc. I don't want to just handwave this as 'the internetz', but yeah... bad apples spring up all over the place.
There's certainly a part of me that hopes RIME is a critical success and Raul can come here and talk a bit about it (*cough*gloat a little*cough*
).
This is why I'm glad The Tomorrow Children is kind of under the radar.
We're able to get an amazing individual like Dylan Cuthbert actively updating this forum and contributing to discussions. He even weathers through the occasional baseless "f2p wank!" posts in good stride.
Also a guy like jstevenson from Insomniac that has been here since the days of Resistance 1/PS3 launch and brings a lot of goodness to the forums. I felt for the guy during the whole FUSE mess, but he soldiered on.
Unfortunately then you have those like Tomm Hullet and Denis Dyack that show up with poor attitudes and chests-puffed looking for a fight. That's normally a bad idea that ends poorly for them. It seems to be the ones that get themselves banned that are the most vocal about "GAF is a shithole", but then again as Cliffy B said - HUNDREDS of devs that even only he knows avoid this place.
There's certainly a part of me that hopes RIME is a critical success and Raul can come here and talk a bit about it (*cough*gloat a little*cough*
).This is why I'm glad The Tomorrow Children is kind of under the radar.
We're able to get an amazing individual like Dylan Cuthbert actively updating this forum and contributing to discussions. He even weathers through the occasional baseless "f2p wank!" posts in good stride.
Also a guy like jstevenson from Insomniac that has been here since the days of Resistance 1/PS3 launch and brings a lot of goodness to the forums. I felt for the guy during the whole FUSE mess, but he soldiered on.
Unfortunately then you have those like Tomm Hullet and Denis Dyack that show up with poor attitudes and chests-puffed looking for a fight. That's normally a bad idea that ends poorly for them. It seems to be the ones that get themselves banned that are the most vocal about "GAF is a shithole", but then again as Cliffy B said - HUNDREDS of devs that even only he knows avoid this place.
It does seem worse with respect to gaming.
I'm also a sports car enthusiast. A much larger, and just as passionate community with rivalries that involve way more than just a handful of manufacturers.
On no car forum have I ever felt an overwhelming feeling of negativity, vitriol, or condescension like I've seen on gaming forums.
The difference between the two can at times feel like stepping out of a classy restaurant and into a highschool cafeteria.
#MakeGAFgreatagain
I'm also a sports car enthusiast. A much larger, and just as passionate community with rivalries that involve way more than just a handful of manufacturers.
On no car forum have I ever felt an overwhelming feeling of negativity, vitriol, or condescension like I've seen on gaming forums.
The difference between the two can at times feel like stepping out of a classy restaurant and into a highschool cafeteria.
#MakeGAFgreatagain
Yeah insomniac dudes post here, Stinkles works at 343 and is extremely active over on the Off Topic sides but posts on the gaming side (actually, he posted a rebuttal in the "Halo Anniversary is a scam" thread, so good on him for facing that kind of criticism head on like that). Lots of indie devs of course.
As far as Shinobi goes, I don't trust him anymore, but it wasn't the Mass Effect thing, it was the fact that he became an insider of virtually everything. He knew Sony stuff, MS stuff, tons of publisher plans, the Scorpio specs before they were revealed, etc. No one insider knows all that info (obviously insiders have jobs deep within the industry) and some of his "inside knowledge" felt like speculation (like saying Crackdown was in development trouble). It drives me up the wall when an insider proclaims to know literally everything because they can be trusted so highly that anything they say can set off a firestorm. I'm glad he left GAF, he belongs on Twitter, and the community is better as a result.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I mean
I run a company, that sells a thing that I make
I have hired people who's job it is to read customer feedback and distill it and present it to me stripped of the actual, in the moment reaction
Because its fucking rough
I run a company, that sells a thing that I make
I have hired people who's job it is to read customer feedback and distill it and present it to me stripped of the actual, in the moment reaction
Because its fucking rough
thepenguin55
Member
Yeah, it's weird and sad really. This game going multiplatform should not have inspired the feelings it did in some people. I was sad when this game dropped off because it made me wonder if Sony had pulled the plug on it or something so I was happy to see it not only return but return as a multiplatform game.
Even though it costs more I'm planning to get a physical copy for the Switch. Also, people getting upset at the dev team about the game being more expensive on Switch is ridiculous considering the fact that they're really not the ones to blame for that. On a whole people need to calm down, take a breathe and remember that these are just video games man.
GAF to developers who visit here:
Lol.
See, shit like this is so obnoxious, but it's what I love about NeoGAF.
Beerman462
Member
It's not worth it to hound after a game during development. Kinda forgot about this game after it's reveal. Glad it's coming out, looks great.
Cracklox
Member
Thank you. That's more or less my rule too.
and usually steering clear from commenting in the more 'controversial' topics like these