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[Blackquill]

And it pisses me off. I just read some posts on a facebook page saying that 52% of gamers are women. These posts (that got a ton of like) told that mobile games are not real games. Aside from the blatant sexism, I really can't understand how people can say there is two gaming style, and one is worse than the others, how are we still stuck with such backwards thoughts ? Games are still seen as a "inferior hobby" by some people and "gamers" can do better than decide what is good gaming or bad gaming. What really makes an AAA game obviously better than a mobile game or to an extend, a casual game such as "Wii Sports" ? The only thing that is objectively better in AAA game is the production value, but that doesn't mean the game will be good. And in the other hand, it's not because a game is directed towards the "casual gamers" (godamnit I hate these words) means it will be to simplistic or bad, Mario Kart is a perfect example for that. What I mean is : looking down on people playing mobile and casual games should stop, I cannot believe it still exists.

Btw, the posts I talked a lot earlier : first one and the second one (they are in french unfortunately but you get the global idea if you read what I've said above)

 

[Hux1ey]

A lot of core gamers feel threatened by mobile gaming, I think for awhile there was a perception that everything would go mobile, but that doesn't really seem to be the case with how strong console and PC are right now.

 

[Kill3r7]

See the following threads and responses on GAF. People are very passionate about their hobbies. http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1361967
http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1361971

 

[KZXcellent]

I don't really like much of mobile gaming or it's business model. That doesn't mean I look down on those who play it. Games are for fun, who cares!

 

[ponpo]

OP is talking about you, anti-pachislot posters of neogaf.

 

[Hux1ey]

See the following threads and responses on GAF. People are very passionate about their hobbies. http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1361967
http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1361971

Still can't believe post #4 got banned for asking a question though lol.

 

[Machina]

Mobile gaming is definitely gaming. That doesn't change the fact that 95% of it is dumpster fire trash

 

[blankempathy]

It this really specific to gaming though? I swear every hobby I've ever seen has had elitists who look down on people just getting started or those who aren't as "hardcore" as them and are seen as casuals in their eyes.

 

[Jampsuliini]

Still can't believe post #4 got banned for asking a question though lol.

A really biased and condescending question, but sure...

On topic: It's pretty weird to look down on mobile gaming. There's plenty of quality games on the platform, you just have to know where to look. Steam is full of shitty games and it's the biggest digital platform on PC. Is PC an inferior system as well? No.

 

[Phoenix944]

Well I think mobile gaming and console/PC gaming are different, but yea it's still gaming

 

[Buddy Mcpuddy]

Mobile gaming is definitely gaming. That doesn't change the fact that 95% of it is dumpster fire trash

.

 

[Horp]

Ok whatever, is kinda what I feel.
If all gaming (including things like online casinos) are gaming, then we might as well come up with another word for proper games.
Lets call them "grames" from now on. Then everyone can enjoy the word "game" and "gamer" and we can still separate the people that enjoy they hobby that is gaming from the rest, that play games for other reasons than the pure enjoyment of gaming as a hobby.

When I say "I like to play golf. I'm a golfer" I dont mean I go out with a stick and smack on rocks, I mean the proper kind of golfing. Same with other hobbies.

So from now on I'm a -gramer-, and this word refers only to people that enjoy true gaming.

 

[El Topo]

Of course there are "real gamers" and "fake gamers". There are those that have played Robot 3, the really good obscure German-only adventure game from 1992, and then there are those that haven't.
Seriously though, why would I care how people use the term "gaming"? If it's a game then it's a game.

 

[Spyware]

It this really specific to gaming though? I swear every hobby I've ever seen has had elitists who look down on people just getting started or those who aren't as "hardcore" as them and are seen as casuals in their eyes.

I can't think of many others that combine the ugly elitism with blatant sexism tho.
(aside from a bunch of sports)

 

[Panajev2001a]

And it pisses me off. I just read some posts on a facebook page saying that 52% of gamers are women. These posts (that got a ton of like) told that mobile games are not real games. Aside from the blatant sexism, I really can't understand how people can say there is two gaming style, and one is worse than the others, how are we still stuck with such backwards thoughts ? Games are still seen as a "inferior hobby" by some people and "gamers" can do better than decide what is good gaming or bad gaming. What really makes an AAA game obviously better than a mobile game or to an extend, a casual game such as "Wii Sports" ? The only thing that is objectively better in AAA game is the production value, but that doesn't mean the game will be good. And in the other hand, it's not because a game is directed towards the "casual gamers" (godamnit I hate these words) means it will be to simplistic or bad, Mario Kart is a perfect example for that. What I mean is : looking down on people playing mobile and casual games should stop, I cannot believe it still exists.

Btw, the posts I talked a lot earlier : first one and the second one (they are in french unfortunately but you get the global idea if you read what I've said above)

Regardless of mobile vs console there is a difference between games that challenge the player vs games designed for super short attention spans and to never ever challenge the user who is looking to be simply entertained while waiting for other stuff. Mobile games, partially due to the nature of how we use the devices and their more limited control schemes in terms of accuracy and precision and lack of muscle memory/tactile feedback seem to be targeted to that user group more often than not.

 

[ponpo]

So from now on I'm a -gramer-, and this word refers only to people that enjoy true gaming.

lmao

Assuming that post was all sarcasm but still lmao

 

[PodcastFips]

I think it's fine if you prefer to split up the gaming landscape into competitive (ESports) and non-competitive (e.g. many mobile games but also lots of console and PC games).

Any other separation does not make a whole lot of sense.

 

[BGBW]

Funnily enough, the "fake" games are usually 100% gameplay focused as they tend to be puzzle games and the like, whereas the "true" games in the AAA space are venturing more and more towards being interactive movies.

 

[stargateheaven]

I think probably what they mean is.. can you call yourself a gamer if all you play is a kim kardashian mobile game?
Yes, it's a game. Does that mean i'm a gamer?

edit: therefore they are placing them as "fake gamers"

but hey, doesnt even affect me.. i just play what i want. lol

 

[Nabbis]

I don't want to be lumped into the same category of people that don't really have anything in common with me. My problem with "gaming" is that it's essentially like saying someone is an "animal lover", except someone likes dogs while someone else might like parrots.

 

[QuixoticNeutral]

While there is obviously a fair degree of gatekeeping or sexism baked into this, it's important to recognize that this isn't one industry, one medium. That isn't even the case within the demographic of traditional console owners; aesthetic/design preferences have splintered in all directions for generations now. No one is under any obligation to embrace everything. We all set boundaries on what we can stand to play and desires for where would prefer the medium to go, and we might as well be honest about them.

The trouble with thinking in terms of games that count versus games that don't count, over whichever pejorative or dividing line you prefer (casual, mobile, shovelware, AAA, et al.), is that the reality is far more fragmented and divided than that. We are not one tribe. This is something on which NeoGAF, which for all of its glaring blind spots is more of a generalist/crossover/multiplatform/multi-genre hangout than most, often doesn't have a good perspective.

 

[HMD]

I guess the question is, should there be a distinction between mobile gaming and console/pc gaming? I can't exactly say the two are the same, but there's nothing inherently different about mobile gaming, it's a weird situation.

 

[HawthorneKitty]

Regardless of mobile vs console there is a difference between games that challenge the player vs games designed for super short attention spans and to never ever challenge the user who is looking to be simply entertained while waiting for other stuff. Mobile games, partially due to the nature of how we use the devices and their more limited control schemes in terms of accuracy and precision and lack of muscle memory/tactile feedback seem to be targeted to that user group more often than not.

Sounds like you don't play mobile games if you're gonnna throw that blanket.

 

[Lusankya]

Games are games, and playing a game is playing a game.

I don't like all genres or type of games, but there are so many different ones that I always find something I like. Just because other people like other games than me doesn't mean I will be worse of in the future nor does it make them lesser gamers.


That's not only related to gaming, but in general people tend to think change and new things somehow always threaten them and their way of life. It's the same with racial equality, emancipation, LGBT rights, etc.

 

[alt27]

Most mobile games are terrible though . If you truly enjoy games you would seek out better experiences imo

 

[Horp]

lmao

Assuming that post was all sarcasm but still lmao

Just gramer humor

 

[ponpo]

Hardware is irrelevant. Time investment and personal identification are the only metrics that matter imo. If you consider gaming a hobby and spend 5 hours a day playing smartphone games, that doesn't seem less 'valid' than someone doing the equivalent (or less) on a PC.

Just gramer humor

Good, I laughed!

 

[Lord Frieza]

Real gaming is about picking up women and dating and/or getting laid. Video games are just video games, bruh.

 

[HawthorneKitty]

Most mobile games are terrible though . If you truly enjoy games you would seek out better experiences imo

Damn, I just learned I don't truly enjoy gaming.
Please teach me more oh superior one.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

To play devils advocate there's a large difference in the complexity, skill required, level of engagement and overall quality between something like

Injustice Mobile

and

Injustice

I don't think you would consider someone who plays "pin the tail on the donkey" at the same level as a moderately skilled chess player. Both qualify as games but they are vastly different. One requiring a level of skill and critical thinking and the other requiring the player to just participate.

I find personally that the vast majority of mobile games require very little for someone to be good at them. They are built around engaging people enough to get them into the IAP loop. Games like Marvel's Future Fight for example something fairly dominant on the mobile platform will literally play itself for you.

Comparing the two is both absolutely acceptable because they exist within the same overarching genre and it's possible to draw a line and say X is one thing and Y is another.

We do it all the time across media. We don't treat fanfic with the same reverence as great literature and we don't consider john's home movies in the same realm as cinemas finest.

 

[MLH]

People take the same attitude with lots of activities. I've heard people say that reading a magazine or the internet isn't really 'reading' and is not the same as reading books...

Seems kind of stupid to me, I don't get the attitude either.

 

[L4DANathan]

Mobile gaming is definitely gaming. That doesn't change the fact that 95% of it is dumpster fire trash

.

 

[TheJoRu]

Most mobile games are terrible though . If you truly enjoy games you would seek out better experiences imo

If you truly enjoy games you truly enjoy the games you play and disregard people who say they shouldn't.

 

[Spyware]

Time investment and personal identification are the only metrics that matter imo. If you consider gaming a hobby and spend 5 hours a day playing smartphone games, that doesn't seem less 'valid' than someone doing the equivalent (or less) on a PC.

Yeah this. A "gamer" is someone who sees gaming as a hobby (unlike someone who picks up a mobile game just to spend ten mins on something while waiting). Doesn't matter what they play or how they play it.

Funnily enough, the "fake" games are usually 100% gameplay focused as they tend to be puzzle games and the like, whereas the "true" games in the AAA space are venturing more and more towards being interactive movies.

This is pretty funny actually.

 

[El Topo]

We do it all the time across media. We don't treat fanfic with the sam reverence as great literature and we don't consider john's home movies in the same realm as cinemas finest.

You know what we don't do? We generally don't mock people that read only certain books. We generally don't mock people that only watch simple movies.
No one here is ostracized or ridiculed because they watch superhero movies. No one here is shat upon because they read comic books. You won't find threads where people shame those that watch wrestling.

 

[Spectone]

I'm so confused. I play both match 3 and FPS games. Am I fake or real?

 

[Jampsuliini]

Ok whatever, is kinda what I feel.
If all gaming (including things like online casinos) are gaming, then we might as well come up with another word for proper games.
Lets call them "grames" from now on. Then everyone can enjoy the word "game" and "gamer" and we can still separate the people that enjoy they hobby that is gaming from the rest, that play games for other reasons than the pure enjoyment of gaming as a hobby.

When I say "I like to play golf. I'm a golfer" I dont mean I go out with a stick and smack on rocks, I mean the proper kind of golfing. Same with other hobbies.

So from now on I'm a -gramer-, and this word refers only to people that enjoy true gaming.

Future copy pasta in the making

 

[alt27]

Damn, I just learned I don't truly enjoy gaming.
Please teach me more oh superior one.

So you only play mobile games ? Enlighten me to the greats of that market .

Not saying playing mobile is bad , I do myself occasionally play on mobile while travelling , but if you like games , why wouldn't you want to play games with far more content , better graphics and gameplay etc ?

I just don't understand your viewpoint

 

[Savantcore]

When I was at school, one kid told me that 'true gamers' knew that FPS games were the only 'real' ones because they're the most immersive.

People are dumb.

 

[Lanrutcon]

There is a notable degree of separation between hobbyist gamers and your average cellphone user with a F2P mobile game they "waste" time on every every day.

What labels you want to use is up to you. Unsure what gender has to do with it.

 

[choodi]

People still judge a game primarily on the quality of the graphics...why would anyone be suprised by this?

 

[Eumi]

And all the people who feel threatened by mobile gaming come racing in to call it trash and disavow it, lest their gamer credentials be taken away.

 

[alt27]

If you truly enjoy games you truly enjoy the games you play and disregard people who say they shouldn't.

I'm saying if you truly enjoy games , you would try games on a variety of platforms , not just one . And vast majority of people would find out that games on better hardware are better than your phone .

 

[Blobbers]

some people think mobile games aren't real games
some people think "walking simulators" aren't real games
even in the AAA space, there are people who think TLoU or Uncharted games aren't real games

where do we draw the line? let's just get rid of the line

But if you wanna get nuts, let's get nuts. I think a game can only be a "true game" if the story, characterization, world building and a bunch of other shit takes a massive backseat to good old pure gameplay. This means most JRPGs are now at the most "half games". Which is cool, because when you think about it, JRPGs are the uncharteds of the earlier gens.

 

[Stilton Disco]

I think the different markets that come under the blanket umbrella of 'gaming' are so disparate and distinct that it is actually highly disingenuous to use any broad statistics that lump them all together to draw any kind of conclusion on current trends in the industry.

And like it or not, as much money as mobile games make, and as accepted by wider society as they have been, they and the people who play them are so far removed from the dedicated enthusiast market found on PC and console as to be basically irrelevant to one another.

It's like comparing supermarket value meal sales to the health of the restaurant industry. They both involve people eating, and there is an obvious competition for people's money, but that's pretty much where the similarities end.

Quite honestly I also think comparing the PC, console and handheld markets is a bit of a stretch.

Saying that, obviously people's choice in entertainment is equally valid, and hobbyists turning their noses up at mobile gamers is elitist, although also understandable, given the toxic nature of a lot of mobile gamings conventions. Anyone doing so for reasons of pure misogyny can also fuck right off.

However, I also think using mobile games to paint the gender division in game players in a more favourable light for woman is actually doing more harm than good, and paints a false, rosy facade over some deep, ugly cracks.

Lumping mobile, PC and console players in together like that completely obfuscates the gender divides in those very disparate categories, which both hurts the women playing games in those groups less welcoming to them already by giving ammunition to those wishing to dismiss their concerns, and risks being a justification for publishers to double down on the young male demographic because it suddenly looks like that market is shrinking.

So yes, it is obviously wrong to dismiss mobile games as not 'real', but to treat them like they're the same as their traditional counterparts is doing a great disservice to both markets and the struggles we've all had for decades to move away from the lack of appeal to a more diverse audience.

 

[michaelius]

Sorry but when I look at business and gameplay model of something like Mobile Strike then I have no problem saying this isn't the same type of gaming that I do.

True and fake are bad words for it but casual and core gaming are good description since they are quite accurate description of how those products are played usually.

 

[Lord Frieza]

I'm so confused. I play both match 3 and FPS games. Am I fake or real?

Bisexual

 

[Blackquill]

Funnily enough, the "fake" games are usually 100% gameplay focused as they tend to be puzzle games and the like, whereas the "true" games in the AAA space are venturing more and more towards being interactive movies.

to be honest, I wanted to say that in my first post but I didn't wanted to be labelled a troll

 

[Prisoner KSC2-303]

I think it's a problem with the term "gamer" itself too. It seems to imply someone more entrenched in the medium, whereas similar phrases as a base standard don't exist for those who watch films or read books, it's just accepted that everyone does to some extent. The lack of this distinction perhaps is why the supposed masses were pushed away, relegating them with the pejorative "casual" label to create a two tiered hierarchy.

It works the other way too, with people who clearly play some games either not wanting or failing to recognise their habits would categorise them as someone who plays games, therefore a gamer. I'm sure I can't be alone in having family members who play freecell / solitaire, or mobile puzzle games who wouldn't even think of categorising themselves as gamers.

I wonder how many people, though they may play the odd game on their phones once in a while, would choose not to categorise themselves as "mobile gamers".

 

[Kill3r7]

Most mobile games are terrible though . If you truly enjoy games you would seek out better experiences imo

Same can be said about movies, books and music. Money spend on games is what the industry is interested in and whether it is spend on a trashy mobile game or TW3 is immaterial.