ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Exactly. We will see how it works out for that game.
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Phil Spencer: We're upping our investment with first party and committed to innovate
- Thread starter leeh
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Exactly. We will see how it works out for that game.
MilkyJoe
Member
Well there's no single player in Sea of thieves so it's no good to me. I don't have the time, nor inclination for that sort of shit.
DriftingSpirit
Member
I wouldn't be surprised if they fleshed it out a bit more. I heard the game seemed unfinished in some parts.
Lord of Ostia
Member
That's great for you, but all of this is extremely anecdotal. Good singleplayer games continue to sell very well. Good multiplayer games also sell very well. And a good first party slate of titles should include both types of games.
Okami Haundo
Member
That definitely seems like goalpost moving... You stated that exclusive "single-player" first party games move systems, now it's somehow any form of exclusivity for any game title...
I'll just rewind with you as well and point out that you're agreeing with the point I made in the first place. I think first party exclusives are important to the health of a platform. I do not believe that they're the sole reason why platforms are successful though.
So what are you saying? If it's successful what do you think will happen? And if it's not successful what you do think will happen?
They got sucked into the Windows void. Xbox dances to the tune of the Windows team now. App Store being a mobile App Store for Xbox games. Yeah. Being a complete shit show in comparison to Steam. The Windows team will get right on that, the mobile apps download fine most of the time....what's the problem.
I always wondered about those 0g games in my online profile, I played the demos but not the full games but they list quite a few of them for some reason.
The competition provides both experiences.
The Salt Life
Banned
That's great but there is a large market that loves that and he knows it.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
No it's not that simple.
If it's successful then we probably know what a lot of MS exclusives will look towards with GaaS. If not we'll see some edits to GaaS.
Maintenance
Member
I've wasted too much time riding that hamster wheel since the early MMO days, very tired of that now.
Lord of Ostia
Member
Having diversity on your platform is extremely important, and first party often leads the way for that diversity. Sony and Nintendo understand this. Xbox doesn't seem to.
I skipped on Star Wars Battlefront because no meaningful SP. I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess I'm not the only one, and I'm also not the only one who skipped BF1 who is drooling over BF2 with its campaign mode.
Phil is underestimating how many people like me are out there.
Phil is underestimating how many people like me are out there.
I'm not shifting goal posts, I still stand by original statement, but your counter isn't really helping your cause.
Why on Earth would anyone pick between Thing 1 and Thing 2 if Thing 1 has everything that Thing 2 does but more?
First party exclusives aren't everything but they're one of the biggest things a hardware manufacturer can do to entice people. What do you think is more compelling if you don't agree?
They have diversity. It just doesn't satisfy a lot of people on this forum.
MilkyJoe
Member
I'm talking about the market that exists that guys BOTW, Uncharted 4, Zero Dawn etc... You can have your games like GTA online, but that does not mean every game has to be a GTA online. Fuck I've never even played it on line, I have no interest in doing so.
And a large market that are willing to buy great SP experiences, but t looks like that he's more open to playing it safe and has therefore learn't nothing. Forza 8/GoW 5 / Halo 6 is looking to be the best you can hope for then.
Well then it's good that Microsoft is aiming squarely at people like you who play games solely for that and disregard everything else. It's like the people that just play COD, and nothing else. These people don't need single-player campaigns.
I'm not like that though, I play games solely for myself and don't give a rat's ass about it being a service that lives on for years. I want an experience, a story, adventure. I don't care about the never-ending hamster wheel that GAAS always seem to turn into.
And while other platforms seem to offer both GAAS and proper single-player titles, Microsoft doubling down on GAAS while leaving the traditional SP gamers flapping in the wind is a risky move.
Psyrgery ES
Member
Yeah, that games as service worked pretty well for Fable Legends, didn't it?
Don't screw this up Phil
Don't screw this up Phil
Aaronrules380
Member
Of course not. Hence why the Wii U was an abject failure and the xbone, while trailing far behind PS4, is still doing ok. But that doesn't change that in order to compete with the PS4 that does have a lot of fantastic single player exclusives as well as the same third party support, Microsoft needs to match up if they want to compete.
Exploratory
Banned
So you think trying to complete with them head on would change that? I think a SP game has a far better chance selling well, than another GaaS that'll takes hundreds of hours (and probably dollars) to get to where my Guardian is at in Destiny. Destiny 2 about to drop just makes it even harder now.
I don't think that's the point. The market shows that these sorts of games are in decline, we don't see them as much anymore, and even though they sell well, they probably don't make the same revenue and margins as games which are more GAAS.
How can you as a leader invest an awful lot of money into a new game in which the market is declining for? You'll have to create something particularly exceptional and unique, for example, Horizon or Zelda.
What The Forest Taught Me
Member
Bingo.
They're investing more money but it's in games as a service style crap because they see that's a current trend. It's not innovative and it's all slightly reminiscent of how they put all that money into kinect because of the Wii. Which as we all know didn't work out well for them.
They all but admit they're happy to surrender the AAA single player space to Sony and I don't think they can out-compete/better stuff like Overwatch/GTA Online/League of Ledgends/whatever else they've been eying up.
Not impressive.
They all but admit they're happy to surrender the AAA single player space to Sony and I don't think they can out-compete/better stuff like Overwatch/GTA Online/League of Ledgends/whatever else they've been eying up.
Not impressive.
But it doesn't? I can't play the games of my choice on Thing 1 so I stick with Thing 2.
Eitherway, I'm going to wait and see what Microsoft announces before I jump to conclusions. It's good though that they are investing more in their 1st party studios.
What kind of edits? Finish your thought man.
Crayon
Member
That's been a big question mark. After building up the scorpio as a super powerful monster console, how can they actually demonstrate that? Digital Foundry can count up the pixels and verify that there are more. But what are they going to have that blows away uncharted 4 or horizon graphically? Is there a difference between having the most powerful hardware and having the best looking games?
As of May 2016, they'd reported 14 million copies sold. I don't think they missed you as much as you think.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
This is the same GAF was surprised Wildlands sold more than Horizon and Zelda. They shouldn't have been surprised, but for some reason they were.
FonkyByNature
Member
Disappointing answers.
The way i read it is Microsoft don't want to invest in single player games but more service games. Well, i really want a Scorpio but if they don't deliver on games then i will not buy it. If it's more service games and more DLC and microtransactions, then i'm out.
I sometimes feel like Microsoft are disconnected with what people want. When i hear people around me talking about consoles, the word variety comes very often and Microsoft lacks a lot of that. I mean come on MS, they can easily afford to have a studio that can pump these kind of games and it wouldn't even hurt them financially but would give them a lot of mindshare.
And forget Zelda ? lol, i've played all the major Zelda titles and not even forgot one and right now, i'm having a blast playing Zelda BOTW and the experience is freakin amazing. Take notes MS.
The way i read it is Microsoft don't want to invest in single player games but more service games. Well, i really want a Scorpio but if they don't deliver on games then i will not buy it. If it's more service games and more DLC and microtransactions, then i'm out.
I sometimes feel like Microsoft are disconnected with what people want. When i hear people around me talking about consoles, the word variety comes very often and Microsoft lacks a lot of that. I mean come on MS, they can easily afford to have a studio that can pump these kind of games and it wouldn't even hurt them financially but would give them a lot of mindshare.
And forget Zelda ? lol, i've played all the major Zelda titles and not even forgot one and right now, i'm having a blast playing Zelda BOTW and the experience is freakin amazing. Take notes MS.
You making gaming sound like work, like it's all about keeping up with the guy next door. No thanks.
Single player games will continue to exist as an art form just like films and books. That kind of media isn't going anywhere
Let me break it down for you in case you didn't understand. Thing 1 is PS4 and Thing 2 is Xbox One.
The Salt Life
Banned
Then I guess don't buy a Xbox? Keep playing on PS4. Quantum Break could have been the greatest game in the world but it's still disposable after you beat it. I'll never touch that game again. They know that.
It is work, it's work I'm into, you're not
And that's ok
Urgh, very sad these thoughts.
Simply can't agree when so far this year, in fact shaping up to be one of the best years of gaming for a while for me, is mostly filled with large SP games.
I'm not ever going to be a fan of microtransactions in full priced games which seems to be the direction they're going mostly.
Fine if he believes business wise it's not worth the investment in those types of games, but really that is only going to push me to PS/Nintendo even more and it's scary how far below Xbox is in terms of first party compared to PS/Nintendo to me and it still doesn't really feel that they want to try and compete with it still.
Simply can't agree when so far this year, in fact shaping up to be one of the best years of gaming for a while for me, is mostly filled with large SP games.
I'm not ever going to be a fan of microtransactions in full priced games which seems to be the direction they're going mostly.
Fine if he believes business wise it's not worth the investment in those types of games, but really that is only going to push me to PS/Nintendo even more and it's scary how far below Xbox is in terms of first party compared to PS/Nintendo to me and it still doesn't really feel that they want to try and compete with it still.
Papo Swing
Member
Is there any chance any of this pans out for 2017 or early 2018? Like a Fallout 4 situation where they announce because they have the game ready?
So, what's the problem here? They have talented people in their first party studios, and they have the money to hire more. Why can't they pull 343i from Halo and have them create a new IP? Would that be so bad?
Of course its sold well. It's Star Wars, and it's been heavily, heavily discounted since about a month after release. You could pick this game up on PSN for under $10 many times. I'm just using that game as an example of something I would have loved to play if it had a campaign. Since BF2 does, I'll be there day 1. The fact that it also has MP is a nice bonus.
Aaronrules380
Member
The thing is, console makers need something to make their console stand out. That's why they can't approach game development in the same way that third party do. They need to take risks and diversify their platform with games that may be unlikely to succeed in and of themselves, because that allows them to draw more audience to their platform, and that audience will then be more likely to look at other offerings on the platform. The real money to be made as a platform owner is in royalties, not just their own games. If I can get big GaaS games on both ps4 and xbone,and I only want one or the other, and Ps4 has great single player offerings the xbone lacks, then why buy the Xbone? And if I only have ps4, I'll also be getting all those third party GaaS on ps4 as well
If the games are selling well, the market isn't exactly in decline. Less are being made because AAA games are costing more and more and a risk averse industry have lost confidence in making those kind of games. What you are saying seems to mean MS has lost confidence in their ability to produce a game of the same caliber as Horizon or Zelda. If the console maker for make those games on their own platforms, you can't expect it from any other source.
Been wondering that for years. Imagine if MS announced a brand new AAA-level IP, developed in-house. That's how you excite the community.
Aaronrules380
Member
I didn't a buy an XBONE, I do stick to my PS4. And this is honestly a huge problem for Microsoft, because the market is clearly showing that I'm not alone
Even then that is factually incorrect.
Why would you want to invest into a game which will provide you less return on that investment because it doesn't implement service like features?
Like it makes no sense. It's why mobile is so large, and the 3rd party GAAS games are so huge (Overwatch, FIFA, GTAV etc).
Just because it gives you brownie points within hardcore communities? That doesn't make you anymore money.
CrimsonEclipse
Member
You make a point.
As far as I see it, some will probably disagree with me but...it's not like you can't have a game with a great expansive SP experience and also have that MP (GaaS) thing as well. My guess this is what MS will do or continuing trying to do both. The problem with games that offer both is that devs don't have the time focus on both experiences extensively sometimes.
I do find myself sometimes purchasing games that have both SP/MP but only ever playing the SP campaign (ie. Call of Duty)
Do I think we won't see several other SP focused games from MS? Absolutely not, but obviously they will continue to make Gaa's. They just need to find a good balance, they can have a mixture of all 3 - SP games, SP/MP games, & GaaS games. They just need to make things captivating with whatever model they choose for whatever that particular game may be.
My two cents.
The Salt Life
Banned
They can make more money off a service game than they could off the sale of a sp jrpg.
Outrun
Member
No. I think what he said was more nuanced.
He needs to convince his superiors that SP games are a worthy investment. MS takes some convincing, moreso than Sony.
Acquiescence
Member
I could've sworn he said something similar to this a couple of years ago. "We're placing more emphasis on first-party...," so on and so forth. Whether he lived up to that promise is debatable.
Sleight of Jam
Banned
Cool story Phil, actions speak louder than words. And cancellations speak louder than what you're saying..
Problem is, just doing GaaS is not a sure-fire recipe for success, otherwise Evolve and Battleborn would've sold gangbusters.
Heck, even The Division had terrible retention that they've ended up giving away the expansions for free.
In summation: don't put all your eggs in one basket.
BRocknRolla
Member
Honestly, some of this stuff is not a good look for me. If MS says they're investing in their first party output, great - exactly what I'd want to hear. But to follow that with, "It's great and all that two of the best games of the year are SP, narrative driven experiences, and our competitors are really good at those, but we think service based is a better, more popular approach," that's s huge turnoff. If it's just more Halo-as-an-esport, Gears-with-more-loot-boxes, and Forza-with-a-hundred-different-DLC-options, I just don't care. And saying your competitors are good at providing exactly not that, doesn't attract me to future MS consoles.
I know MS and Xbox are in a strange place right now with gaming, but they've got to provide a broad appeal like their competitors.
I know MS and Xbox are in a strange place right now with gaming, but they've got to provide a broad appeal like their competitors.
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