Support NeoGAF

[Winthorpe]

It's a pity to hear this sort of narrow minded thinking.

It shouldn't be a case of one particular style of game. Sony has excelled this year because it offers great single player titles alongside the best commercial agreements (DLC and timings) for large scale third party titles.

And Nintendo has produced a platform that will combine handheld / home console experiences and produce a plethora of different style games.

It feels like MS is going after the hardcore 16-28 bro-market. Now that may be commercially sensible, but it's a pity.

 

[MilkyJoe]

I'm not shifting goal posts, I still stand by original statement, but your counter isn't really helping your cause.

Why on Earth would anyone pick between Thing 1 and Thing 2 if Thing 1 has everything that Thing 2 does but more?

First party exclusives aren't everything but they're one of the biggest things a hardware manufacturer can do to entice people. What do you think is more compelling if you don't agree?

Thing 1 has a shitty controller and no Forza Horizon


Edit,

Just noticed the title is really not what I am getting from reading this thread. Committed to first party cash cows over memorable SP experiences. sounds more fitting.

 

[Maintenance]

Just because it gives you brownie points within hardcore communities? That doesn't make you anymore money.

You mean like Backwards Compatibility and the Scorpio?

 

[Bluenoser]

Why would you want to invest into a game which will provide you less return on that investment because it doesn't implement service like features?

Like it makes no sense. It's why mobile is so large, and the 3rd party GAAS games are so huge (Overwatch, FIFA, GTAV etc).

Just because it gives you brownie points within hardcore communities? That doesn't make you anymore money.

Because it brings a more diverse group of customers to your brand. People like me have no interest in GAAS, and I buy 10-15 games per year usually. Sure, none of them will last me the whole year like a Destiny or GTAV but I still find enjoyment and value in the games I play.

I'm not arguing that the GAAS market isn't lucrative, but this market doesn't differentiate them or make them stand out from the competition. That said, if they were to develop their own Overwatch or Diablo I'm sure it would move a ton of consoles and sell 10M copies. So what is stopping them? Seems like they have no one in that company with any original game ideas.

As for the comment about money, I hope their vision isn't so shallow, for their sake. They have a responsibility to make money, but every decision can't be about money or they lose creative focus.

 

[leeh]

Thing 2 has a shitty controller and no Forza Horizon

.

 

[Aaronrules380]

They can make more money off a service game than they could off the sale of a sp jrpg.

On an individual game basis maybe. But as a platform holder drawing more people to their platform is a higher priority than the success of a single game

 

[MarveI]

Exactly. We will see how it works out for that game.

It won't.

No it's not that simple.
.

It really is.

 

[Night Angel]

To be fair, not many predicted the impact of Zelda and Horizon. By the time we know the impact, MS studio's projects already halfway in the oven.
Maybe Phil see the impact now, we'll get those single player games from MS studio in 2020.

How much longer can we make excuses for the pathetic output of MS FP Studios? Great SP games have always sold well in general - this isn't some crazy new trend for the industry. MS has been failing on this front for years.

It's all words with Phil. He's been in a leadership position with plenty of power to mold FP output for years. What we've seen so far is his best effort. I expect nothing to change.

 

[What The Forest Taught Me]

Phil Spencer is right about single player games. There isn't as large of an audience if you're making mediocre games. One thing Sony and other third party publishers have shown is that if you make a great single player game, there is still quite the audience and they're very appreciative. It's a big commitment, because Sony has also put out a bunch of mediocre ones to get there. I don't blame them for being a bit apprehensive about making such games.

Not only that, but if a franchise is handled properly, successive new entries can sell greater numbers than previous releases. Look at the GTA series. The next RDR is likely to significantly outsell its predecessor. Skyrim's likely to be outsold by its successor by no small number. The Last of Us 2's poised to crush the sales numbers of the first entry. And so on and so forth.

 

[I'm Spartacus]

I think most adults, who have never really played that many games get consoles because their friends have those and they played games with them. In SP game like uncharted 4 you need like a three hour investment from beginning of the game if the gameplay isn't anything amazing versus when playing cod with your friends in split-screen you are hooked in mere minutes and possible get a console.

I can't deny what your saying but the problem here is that the rival platform is offering all this (and more) and in the current climate that non-console owning person is statistically more likely to have a ps4 owning friend than an xbox owning friend.

 

[Winthorpe]

I tell you one thing MS could do. Find the developers from Black Box, reassemble them like the A-team and make Skate 4 an Xbox exclusive.

 

[Dark Cloud]

I'm not shifting goal posts, I still stand by original statement, but your counter isn't really helping your cause.

Why on Earth would anyone pick between Thing 1 and Thing 2 if Thing 1 has everything that Thing 2 does but more?

I'm getting some strong Dr. Seuss vibes from this.

 

[The Salt Life]

On an individual game basis maybe. But as a platform holder drawing more people to their platform is a higher priority than the success of a single game

They are more than making up for their losses I'm sure. (Well I'm assuming since people love to throw their wallet at microtransactions)

Pllus considering everyone went PS4 because it was "more powerful than Xbox one"

And now Scorpio will be more powerful than a pro, I'm sure those people that are looking for "the best" will come on over.

 

[nycgamer4ever]

Originally Posted by The Salt Life

That's what the majority of gamers seem to like now. Playing together, a community. When I play a SP game I know I'm wasting time and falling behind my friends in those service based games.
Originally Posted by The Salt Life

That's a question I ask myself, why am I playing a SP game when I can be playing destiny, marvel age of heroes or sea of Thieves and keeping pace with my friends who are at end game and geared up for raids and such.

Sounds more like an obligation to keep playing those games more than anything.

That was how I felt when I played Destiny for months. I loved playing with friends and raiding and generally hanging out with friends but it got to a point when it became a "job" if you know what I mean. Every time I logged on to play a new game i got pulled into another raid and I ended up neglecting a bunch of great games until the backlog was huge.

 

[Okami Haundo]

Of course not. Hence why the Wii U was an abject failure and the xbone, while trailing far behind PS4, is still doing ok. But that doesn't change that in order to compete with the PS4 that does have a lot of fantastic single player exclusives as well as the same third party support, Microsoft needs to match up if they want to compete.

I absolutely agree with you on that, Microsoft needs to diversify! They currently have far too much overlap between their first party titles and third party offerings. I honestly haven't said anything to the contrary, though the user that I was replying to in this scenario seems to think I have.

 

[Aaronrules380]

They are more than making up for their losses I'm sure.

Pllus considering everyone went PS4 because it was "more powerful than Xbox one"

And now Scorpio will be more powerful than a pro, I'm sure those people that are looking for "the best" will come on over.

Power isn't the reason the ps4 is winning at all

 

[Lord of Ostia]

It's a pity to hear this sort of narrow minded thinking.

It shouldn't be a case of one particular style of game. Sony has excelled this year because it offers great single player titles alongside the best commercial agreements (DLC and timings) for large scale third party titles.

And Nintendo has produced a platform that will combine handheld / home console experiences and produce a plethora of different style games.

It feels like MS is going after the hardcore 16-28 bro-market. Now that may be commercially sensible, but it's a pity.

Sony recognized that it makes more sense financially to fund single player games internally, and support multiplayer service games with marketing help for third parties. Any service game is going to be hamstrung by being an exclusive, especially if your platform has 1/2-2/3rds the install base of your competitor. Those games are expensive to both develop and maintain, and they need to cast the widest net possible to be successful and profitable. Nintendo is an exception because they have to do everything themselves, but they've done a good job making both multiplayer games and singleplayer games with high engagement (I hesitate to call them service games because outside of a few titles they are pretty conservative when it comes to DLC and microtransactions).

 

[bede-x]

An area I think Microsoft need to invest in more is the middle ground. The games that aren't the AAA's and not the indies either. Games with good replayability that are focused on the single player market rather than the multiplayer and lots of different ideas that may or may not work. This is ultimately why I prefer Sony platform for consoles, it isn't the big named games as I don't really care for them.

Exactly. Even if they want to focus primarily on selling service games and subscriptions, there's no reason they couldn't have 2-3 smaller teams diversifing their portfolio. Yooka-Laylee was made by a very small studio. Why can't we have a Banjo, Voodoo Vince or other made with a similar small team/budget?

I miss Twisted Pixel and to a lesser extend Press Play..

 

[AmuroChan]

I skipped on Star Wars Battlefront because no meaningful SP. I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess I'm not the only one, and I'm also not the only one who skipped BF1 who is drooling over BF2 with its campaign mode.

Phil is underestimating how many people like me are out there.

I don't think Phil is underestimating how many people like you are out there. He just overestimated how many people like you are in the XBox ecosystem. He tried with SP games like Quantum Break, Recore, and Sunset Overdrive. They all underperformed in sales. Two of them are good games and the other is a GOTY contender. Maybe he saw that data and came to the conclusion that the core XBox audience just aren't people like you who prefer SP games

 

[Netherscourge]

Originally Posted by Phil Spencer

”The audience for those big story-driven games... I won't say it isn't as large, but they're not as consistent. You'll have things like Zelda or Horizon Zero Dawn that'll come out, and they'll do really well, but they don't have the same impact that they used to have, because the big service-based games are capturing such a large amount of the audience. Sony's first-party studios do a lot of these games, and they're good at them, but outside of that, it's difficult – they're become more rare; it's a difficult business decision for those teams, you're fighting into more headwind."

^This is a buzzkill for me.

I LOVE Single-player story-driven games. ESPECIALLY games like Breath of the Wild and Horizon Zero Dawn.

If they are focusing on fighting games, sports games, driving games and FPS shooters, I'm out. These genres are completely overplayed and not defining of any system. I don't even care much about Halo anymore.

I want RPG, adventure, story-driven, character-building, open-world games FIRST AND FOREMOST.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

It won't.



It really is.

Do you know how many good games don't sell throughout the years?

 

[The Salt Life]

Power isn't the reason the ps4 is winning at all

Oh I'm sure constant articles circulating fb and other social media saying "this game looks better on PS4" for every third party release didn't help at all. Word of mouth is a myth.


Price played a big point and Scorpio, but if they both released at the same price ...

 

[Hoo-doo]

They can make more money off a service game than they could off the sale of a sp jrpg.

But how does it impact the consumer. Microsoft's pocketbook is really not anyone's concern.

The way I see it, Microsoft is trying to push out service-like games that rival Blizzard, Bungie, Ubisoft and EA in terms of their continued moneymaking potential. Which is smart for them. But that move also means that there'll be even less proper single-player titles on the platform. Which is still a big market. And in this interview they are basically saying 'go to Nintendo or Sony for those type of games'.

I'd say let third-parties come up with the huge MMO-like games as a service and distinguish your platform with some actual focused AAA titles that actually turn some heads. They should be creating teams for that purpose because that type of game is not going away. And honestly? I don't think Microsoft's teams are going to cut it in between games like Overwatch, RDR2 and Destiny 2.

 

[Hero]

I'm getting some strong Dr. Seuss vibes from this.

One fish, two fish
Red fish, no games.

 

[leeh]

You mean like Backwards Compatibility and the Scorpio?

Backwards Compatibility will of cost a fraction of the price, a slither in-fact of AAA development. The benefit to cost ratio on that is huge. I mean just look at the spike of sales for RDR, BO, BOII etc.

Because it brings a more diverse group of customers to your brand. People like me have no interest in GAAS, and I buy 10-15 games per year usually. Sure, none of them will last me the whole year like a Destiny or GTAV but I still find enjoyment and value in the games I play.

I'm not arguing that the GAAS market isn't lucrative, but this market doesn't differentiate them or make them stand out from the competition. That said, if they were to develop their own Overwatch or Diablo I'm sure it would move a ton of consoles and sell 10M copies. So what is stopping them? Seems like they have no one in that company with any original game ideas.

I don't think they'll stop completely providing SP experiences, but I think in-terms of the money which is pumped into SP/MP, you'll see it become heavily one-sided towards MP. From a business stand-point, they can't make as much money out of you. Hence why they report on MAU's also.

Regarding your second paragraph, I think Sea of Thieves is meant to be that and IMO it's looking rather good. My mates who're all into the GAAS games, they put many hours into Destiny, Diablo, Ark, Overwatch and Smite have all had very positive things to say about it during the bare-bones alpha. I'm quite excited for it personally.

 

[greenegt]

Why would you want to invest into a game which will provide you less return on that investment because it doesn't implement service like features?

Like it makes no sense. It's why mobile is so large, and the 3rd party GAAS games are so huge (Overwatch, FIFA, GTAV etc).

Just because it gives you brownie points within hardcore communities? That doesn't make you anymore money.

Because MS should take the long view of investing in themselves as a gaming brand rather than solely looking at how individual titles perform. Not every game will be a hit, but MS should not be skittish about trying. Sony has earned a great reputation within the community and are reaping the benefits with tons of hardware and software sales. MS may never catch Sony worldwide, but they could grab a bigger share of the pie by catering to more gamers.

 

[tiredheadcrab]

Again, they will still invest in SP games and games that blend SP and GaaS (Halo). But they aren't going to go off and make something like Horizon and honestly they shouldn't. Its not easy to chase something like that in this industry.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

Really feels like too little too late at this point, unless all these new games are for Xbox Two/900/whatever the hell they're gonna call the next console after the Scorpio.

 

[Bluenoser]

How much longer can we make excuses for the pathetic output of MS FP Studios? Great SP games have always sold well in general - this isn't some crazy new trend for the industry. MS has been failing on this front for years.

It's all words with Phil. He's been in a leadership position with plenty of power to mold FP output for years. What we've seen so far is his best effort. I expect nothing to change.

MS has largely relied on third party partnerships for their single player type games. But as they say all good things come to an end, so those weren't reliable long term. They could try to partner up with a studio again like they did with Insomniac, but the better bet for them is to either buy a studio, or create a new one of their own. Hopefully that's what Phil means.

 

[EGM1966]

Given my experience on MS statements on PC I'll take a wait and see approach to more first party. It's easy to say but I'll need to see actual portofilo expansion delivered before its going to influence my purchasing decisions.

 

[Arials]

Again, they will still invest in SP games and games that blend SP and GaaS (Halo). But they aren't going to go off and make something like Horizon and honestly they shouldn't. Its not easy to chase something like that in this industry.

It's not easy but if you want to be a major player that's the level you have to compete at.

 

[polyh3dron]

The audience for those big story-driven games... I won’t say it isn’t as large, but they’re not as consistent. You’ll have things like Zelda or Horizon Zero Dawn that’ll come out, and they’ll do really well, but they don’t have the same impact that they used to have,

how so? They certainly had more impact than Halo Wars 2, the lone notable Xbox exclusive title that released while PS4 got Yakuza 0, Horizon, Nier: Automata and Persona 5. How exactly do these games not have the impact they used to have? You know what doesn't have the same impact it used to have? Xbox first party releases. They were doing great up until they decided Kinect was more important than actual games in the 360 days. You say you want to innovate, Phil, but methinks you want to innovate in the wrong ways, like how a phone or cable company wants to "innovate" ways to screw their customers over more.

 

[Aaronrules380]

Oh I'm sure constant articles circulating fb and other social media saying "this game looks better on PS4" for every third party release didn't help at all. Word of mouth is a myth.

It may have helped at launch, but it quickly became irrelevant and at launch MS suffered far more from their own decisions even the ones they backed off on than the power difference

 

[tiredheadcrab]

It's not easy but if you want to be a major player that's the level you have to compete at.

They never have competed at that level. Sony and Nintendon have always had a better first party out put.

 

[primovinny]

This forum is funny. When Scoprio was announced the question was: where are the games? Now that we have some hints of some exclusives the type of games is the problem. Guys, If you don't like what they offer don't buy. Not every console is for everyone, I have to tell that. And aren't we reading a bit too much on this statement?

 

[nycgamer4ever]

I don't think that's the point. The market shows that these sorts of games are in decline, we don't see them as much anymore, and even though they sell well, they probably don't make the same revenue and margins as games which are more GAAS.

How can you as a leader invest an awful lot of money into a new game in which the market is declining for? You'll have to create something particularly exceptional and unique, for example, Horizon or Zelda.

As an executive year he is making decision that is right for the company but as a gamer this is the worst decision ever. The results will be that sales of xbox hardware will alway trail the competition but they will remain relevant in sales by dollar.

 

[Papo Swing]

How the hell does he say that about SP games when we've had so many successful SP games in the beginning of 2017 alone.

And the have Fable! One of my favorite SP games from the past.

 

[jelly]

"it’s a difficult business decision for those teams, you’re fighting into more headwind."

How does that not apply to GaaS games.

 

[The Salt Life]

But how does it impact the consumer. Microsoft's pocketbook is really not anyone's concern.

The way I see it, Microsoft is trying to push out service-like games that rival Blizzard, Bungie, Ubisoft and EA in terms of their continued moneymaking potential. Which is smart for them. But that move also means that there'll be even less proper single-player titles on the platform. Which is still a big market. And in this interview they are basically saying 'go to Nintendo or Sony for those type of games'.

I'd say let third-parties come up with the huge MMO-like games as a service and distinguish your platform with some actual focused AAA titles that actually turn some heads. They should be creating teams for that purpose because that type of game is not going away. And honestly? I don't think Microsoft's teams are going to cut it in between games like Overwatch, RDR2 and Destiny 2.

SP Games don't sell well to their audience? So why bother with one trick ponies I suppose.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

That's been a big question mark. After building up the scorpio as a super powerful monster console, how can they actually demonstrate that? Digital Foundry can count up the pixels and verify that there are more. But what are they going to have that blows away uncharted 4 or horizon graphically? Is there a difference between having the most powerful hardware and having the best looking games?

Yeah, I hadn't really thought about it either. I guess stuff like Halo, Forza and Gears can do that job for them while still maintaining the GaaS model. Granted, I'm not sure how much that will help drawn in new people but I don't think MS is targeting new people anyway. They want their core base to get Scorpio.

 

[What The Forest Taught Me]

LOL

I love the one that includes Captain America.

 

[nycgamer4ever]

This forum is funny. When Scoprio was announced the question was: where are the games? Now that we have some hints of some exclusives the type of games is the problem. Guys, If you don't like what they offer don't buy. Not every console is for everyone, I have to tell that. And aren't we reading a bit too much on this statement?

What does this have to do with Scorpio? All of these games will be on Xbox one s also and probably PC. There are no Scorpio exclusives.

 

[JaggedSac]

^This is a buzzkill for me.

I LOVE Single-player story-driven games. ESPECIALLY games like Breath of the Wild and Horizon Zero Dawn.

If they are focusing on fighting games, sports games, driving games and FPS shooters, I'm out. These genres are completely overplayed and not defining of any system. I don't even care much about Halo anymore.

I want RPG, adventure, story-driven, character-building, open-world games FIRST AND FOREMOST.

They did release Quantum Break and Recore last year. Those were single player games. Quantum Break was very story driven. Recore was somewhat open world and had rpg elements.

They also just released an RTS game, which is a genre not particularly covered in the console space.

Dead Rising 4 was also open-minded.

 

[Real_Madrid]

Microsoft has always been a MP first brand, so what Phil says isn't that surprising, but I have to wonder how Microsoft can compete with the big really expensive service games.
It's all nice to say that service games are very popular nowadays, but how many service games can a console sustain? We've seen it in the MOBA market where a few games get almost all the money. Or even Hearthstone or Overwatch, who will continue to dominate their specific market segment.

With a SP game, you play it and a month later you can resell it and buy a new game. That alone makes it more games can exist in that space.
Sucker Punch is a +- 70 people studio, I can't see them making a good service game that makes the same amount of money Infamous Second Son did. The game sold one million copies in a few weeks (at full AAA-price) and that in the launch window of the PS4. If they made a service game, they would need a good chunk of their workforce supporting the game, while now they'll have a new game ready to go in probably a year.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

Is there any chance any of this pans out for 2017 or early 2018? Like a Fallout 4 situation where they announce because they have the game ready?

It isn't impossible but I certainly wouldn't be expecting it.

 

[LegalEagleMike]

all this means to me is we wont be getting any more traditional fable rpg games, which is sad. They will still put out games with single player but they will also have multiplayer elements as well.

 

[leeh]

As an executive year he is making decision that is right for the company but as a gamer this is the worst decision ever. The results will be that sales of xbox hardware will alway trail the competition but they will remain relevant in sales by dollar.

No, for you it is and for the mass on here. Not the actual market.

GAF proves time and time again it is very out-of-touch with the masses.

 

[LKSmash]

How the hell does he say that about SP games when we've had so many successful SP games in the beginning of 2017 alone.

And the have Fable! One of my favorite SP games from the past.

Because the only SP game to make the top 10 in 2016 sales was FFXV at 10?

 

[Dark Cloud]

This forum is funny. When Scoprio was announced the question was: where are the games? Now that we have some hints of some exclusives the type of games is the problem. Guys, If you don't like what they offer don't buy. Not every console is for everyone, I have to tell that. And aren't we reading a bit too much on this statement?

The Scorpio isn't going to have exclusives.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

Power isn't the reason the ps4 is winning at all

"At all"

Oh come off it, the resolution talk was a major dominant of the early years of this gen. not the main reason but to make out it played no part at all? Nah I can't agree with you.