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[Hoo-doo]

The first two years it was all about Rez and being more powerful. Now it doesn't matter. What happened?

Did you miss the fact that the Xbox One was 100$ more expensive and had the big stink-cloud of their always-online fiasco around it? That's convenient.

Because i'd wager those were a LOT more influential than the resolution differences. Sony capitalized on every mistake Microsoft made. That was the gamechanger.

What service titles have they released that failed?
Halo 5 thought criticized for its single player seemed to clean up well for its microtransactions

Fable legends never even saw the light of day. You going to argue that that wasn't a 'failure'?

 

[Linkified]

From reading the article and seeing what people on GAF are saying.

Directly from the article

”We've got to understand that if we enjoy those games, the business opportunity has to be there for them. I love story-based games. I just finished [LucasArts-inspired RPG] Thimbleweed Park – I thought it was a fantastic game. Inside was probably my game of last year. As an industry, I want to make sure both narrative-driven single-player games and service-based games have the opportunity to succeed. I think that's critical for us."

MS Studios will still produce single player content for games where it needs a story such as Halo/Gears and potentially new IP from Phil's comments on investment. GaaS doesn't have to mean no single player, similarly single player games don't have to be no service elements.

Spencer feels there are also design issues with a lot of mainstream single-player games. They tend to be part of long legacy franchises, and they rely too much on assumed knowledge about control interfaces and game conventions. ”As creators, we've got to think about accessibility of the content that we build. Our big narrative story-driven games are in some ways less accessible. They may be the nth iteration of a story that, if you didn't play the first and minus-one versions you don't feel connected to. From a mechanics standpoint, they know the core audience has been playing games since PS1, and they just assume you're a master with a controller."

Out of new single player only titles how many were a new IP without any multiplayer content. The only one I can think of is Horizons. I believe that is what Phil is referring to at earlier points in the article. That they need community side of GaaS to be injected into new IP single player games.

 

[Aaronrules380]

From reading the article and seeing what people on GAF are saying.

Directly from the article


MS Studios will still produce single player content for games where it needs a story such as Halo/Gears and potentially new IP from Phil's comments on investment. GaaS doesn't have to mean no single player, similarly single player games don't have to be no service elements.



Out of new single player only titles how many were a new IP without any multiplayer content. I believe that is what Phil is referring to at earlier points.

It sounds more like he wants the single player games to continue to exist on Xbone, but has no intention of using first party developers to make them

 

[Fisty]

From reading the article and seeing what people on GAF are saying.

Directly from the article


MS Studios will still produce single player content for games where it needs a story such as Halo/Gears and potentially new IP from Phil's comments on investment. GaaS doesn't have to mean no single player, similarly single player games don't have to be no service elements.



Out of new single player only titles how many were a new IP without any multiplayer content. The only one I can think of is Horizons. I believe that is what Phil is referring to at earlier points in the article. That they need community side of GaaS to be injected into new IP single player games.

That last quote is... interesting...

 

[kadotsu]

What service titles have they released that failed?
Halo 5 thought criticized for its single player seemed to clean up well for its microtransactions

Halo 5(Five) isn't what I would call a cold launch. Sea of Thieves is.

 

[Hero]

What would you say my "cause" is that I'm not helping? I don't recall saying that first party exclusives aren't important. I've said that they aren't the only reason that people are driven to one platform or another. I think diversity is key there, and Sony has that in spades right now. Microsoft has plenty of exclusives, they just don't do enough to diversify their library. Can we move on?

I mean, you started out by quoting me, but I think we're in agreement that Microsoft needs to do better.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Come on now, that's not true when taken as a whole what xbox is now doing since he has taken over. As for 1st party, like I said, we need to see it.

Well he's ticked all the right boxes and now we are close to what we need thus reads like they are abandoning single player in preference to gaas (read maximise profit). Does he think his average working age customer has the time to play this sort of thing?

He says games like Zero Dawn and Botw did really well, all I can see is he hasn't got the bottle to follow up.

 

[The Salt Life]

Fable legends never even saw the light of day. You going to argue that that wasn't a 'failure'?

It never even came out? If anything they protected me from wasting money on a poor game. That's a success to me.

 

[black070]

It never even came out? If anything they protected me from wasting money on a poor game. That's a success to me.

Lol.

 

[nycgamer4ever]

But how does it impact the consumer. Microsoft's pocketbook is really not anyone's concern.

The way I see it, Microsoft is trying to push out service-like games that rival Blizzard, Bungie, Ubisoft and EA in terms of their continued moneymaking potential. Which is smart for them. But that move also means that there'll be even less proper single-player titles on the platform. Which is still a big market. And in this interview they are basically saying 'go to Nintendo or Sony for those type of games'.

I'd say let third-parties come up with the huge MMO-like games as a service and distinguish your platform with some actual focused AAA titles that actually turn some heads. They should be creating teams for that purpose because that type of game is not going away. And honestly? I don't think Microsoft's teams are going to cut it in between games like Overwatch, RDR2 and Destiny 2.

They are chasing fool's gold. A lot of competition in the space also. No way they will be able to compete with Blizzard, Rockstar, and Bungie.

 

[Papo Swing]

Because the only SP game to make the top 10 in 2016 sales was FFXV at 10?

when we've had so many successful SP games in the beginning of 2017 alone

 

[Bluenoser]

From reading the article and seeing what people on GAF are saying.

Directly from the article


MS Studios will still produce single player content for games where it needs a story such as Halo/Gears and potentially new IP from Phil's comments on investment. GaaS doesn't have to mean no single player, similarly single player games don't have to be no service elements.



Out of new single player only titles how many were a new IP without any multiplayer content. The only one I can think of is Horizons. I believe that is what Phil is referring to at earlier points in the article. That they need community side of GaaS to be injected into new IP single player games.

I agree with him to a point, but these sound like excuses. It really comes down to "it's hard, so we aren't going to try". They will continue to make partnerships to get some exclusive story driven content, but at the end of the day, it will not match what the competition is doing, because they don't really care about it.

 

[Schrödinger's cat]

I'm not going to pretend I know how these companies run or have access to the numbers they do.

I've yet to invest in an Xbox console this generation as I want more content that appeals to me in order to do so. I have a PS4 and a reasonably beefy PC so I feel I've still got a decent library of games if I want them.

Phil's statements in the OP - and elsewhere - aren't really swaying me from my current fence-sitting position.

I don't have a problem with that.

But I would assume, possibly incorrectly, that reaching more consumers is something a platform holder would want to be doing. Growing their marketshare - which in turn puts them in a stronger position elsewhere.

Perhaps that's less important to Microsoft than maximising the value of the marketshare you currently have. Getting those current customers to spend more and more money on your services.

From where I'm sat, it seems like Microsoft are doing more of the latter at the expense of the former.

 

[Fisty]

It never even came out? If anything they protected me from wasting money on a poor game. That's a success to me.

It cost MS $75 million

 

[Raide]

I like what I am hearing but E3 is the crucial time to show the goods. They commitment to keeping the XB Dash etc, up to date, has been amazing to see. Would love to see them do as Phil said and throw the same devotion to gaming as a whole.

 

[Okami Haundo]

I mean, you started out by quoting me, but I think we're in agreement that Microsoft needs to do better.

You started by quoting me mate, but it's all good. We definitely agree on that point, and I really hope they have something to show soon. I don't expect them to randomly pull Uncharted 4 or Horizon: Zero Dawn out of thin air, but I'd like to see them focus on different experiences.

Heck, improving their relationships with certain third parties would help as well. They need to convince companies like Square Enix to give them titles like the Kingdom Hearts and FF remasters. Likewise, gameslike Nier, Persona, and Nioh were fantastic examples of how to diversify a lineup without shelling out tons of cash or your own developer resources.

 

[BlackBuzzard]

What service titles have they released that failed?
Halo 5 thought criticized for its single player seemed to clean up well for its microtransactions

Fable Legends.

 

[mysteriousmage09]

The first two years it was all about Rez and being more powerful. Now it doesn't matter. What happened?

The game library's started speaking for themselves.

 

[Raide]

Fable Legends.

Never released unless you count alpha/beta tests.

 

[nycgamer4ever]

With the past two years of releases and games like GTA V that sold extremely well before the online took off the way it did would say their totally wrong.

All the copies of witcher 3, gta v pre-online, uncharted 4, horizon, bloodborne, farcry, ac doom, among many others would disagree with that statement.

That's why his statement is baffling. AAA single player games are still doing great if they are good.

 

[Hoo-doo]

Never released unless you count alpha/beta tests.

That still makes it a failure. A huge one, even.

But next time they'll hit it out of the park, i'm sure.

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

Yay! Glad they're finally going to put more money into the first party software. I'm even more confident that they're going to show multiple exclusives at E3 now.

 

[Yoshi88]

Phil Spencer is right about one thing: Games as a service are where the big and constant profits are right now. In terms of business it makes sense to concentrate on those experiences. But he's missing two things, I think:

1. Competition. The type of game he's talking about are rarely exclusive to one platform holder. If he wants to attract the MP/GaaS crowd he needs to consider that most of these experiences can also be found on PS4, PC (aside from play anywhere) etc. And then you have to offer the customer some added value to get them to choose your platform over the others. Which leads to point 2.

2. Growing and cultivating a userbase big and engaged enough for GaaS experiences. These games function best when there's​ a huge pool of potential players where a committed userbase can crystalize. On F2P mobile and PC that's no big deal. On a more closed platform like consoles it certainly is. A huge part in making your platform attractive, I think, is what most here already said: diversifying and growing your games portfolio, especially with highly lauded and discussed SP experiences. Each and every one of those cater to different players, make the platform attractive and lead to a healthy system. And it's a healthy system with a huge and dynamic audience where you can turn those GaaS into big profit.

So I hope Phil isn't loosing sight of the bigger picture and narrowing his approach, which will only hurt MS in the long term, I think.

 

[jelly]

That still makes it a failure. A huge one, even.

Maybe we have to wait for that 75 million to be not spent on other games then we get new games.

 

[BlackBuzzard]

Never released unless you count alpha/beta tests.

Cost 75M so it failed the test without even releasing Microsoft was so sure of its failure that right before it launched they canned it and closed the studio.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

That's why his statement is baffling. AAA single player games are still doing great if they are good.

For Microsoft they've been average, so for them they've found diffficulty making them a success.

Which isn't a valid reason to abandon those games, just go above and beyond and make them good.

 

[Raide]

That still makes it a failure. A huge one, even.

But next time they'll hit it out of the park, i'm sure.

They saw the writing on the wall and dropped it before it released. Shame, I actually thought the premise was fun and gameplay was not bad too.

 

[Maintenance]

You know, you can actually use the glass to store stuff when it's empty. That's a pro, not a con.

Spoiler

How's Fable Legends even remotely close to a success. That's taking glass half full to the extreme.

 

[kpaadet]

It should be the platform holders job to create a wide variety of games to appeal to a board demographic, not create the same type of games the biggest 3rd party companies deliver in spades. A comment like that makes it so easy for someone like me that prefers SP games to not bother with Xbox.

 

[Salty Hippo]

From reading the article and seeing what people on GAF are saying.

Directly from the article


MS Studios will still produce single player content for games where it needs a story such as Halo/Gears and potentially new IP from Phil's comments on investment. GaaS doesn't have to mean no single player, similarly single player games don't have to be no service elements.

Read his wording carefully.

”As an industry, I want to make sure both narrative-driven single-player games and service-based games have the opportunity to succeed. I think that's critical for us."

As an industry? Neither Phil Spencer nor Microsoft is an industry. He's speaking in very, very generic terms here. As Microsoft, he wants an industry that "makes sure" both types of games have the opportunity to succeed. That's doesn't mean SHIT. He's not committing to a single thing in that quote.

Phil Spencer deserves a prize for his PR skills. His ability to imply things without actually saying them at all is fucking amazing.

 

[gamz]

Did you miss the fact that the Xbox One was 100$ more expensive and had the big stink-cloud of their always-online fiasco around it? That's convenient.

Because i'd wager those were a LOT more influential than the resolution differences. Sony capitalized on every mistake Microsoft made. That was the gamechanger.



Fable legends never even saw the light of day. You going to argue that that wasn't a 'failure'?

Right, but I remember post after post bragging about Rez and power. I just wondered what happened is all.

 

[kadotsu]

Right, but I remember post after post bragging about Rez and power. I just wondered what happened is all.

I let you in on a secret: Power discussion are only big when there is fuck all to play.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

"At all"

Oh come off it, the resolution talk was a major dominant of the early years of this gen. not the main reason but to make out it played no part at all? Nah I can't agree with you.

Maybe among the dozen or so Gaf members that truly care about that but it was never the determining factor. The PS4 launched $100 cheaper and had more variety of games in the long run. If you like any genre besides shooters and racing games then PS4 was the system to get and that reputation sticked. Sony marketed the PS4 as the system for gamers by gamers and Microsoft did not. Guess which system more gamers got?

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

Right, but I remember post after post bragging about Rez and power. I just wondered what happened is all.

Don't worry those posts are coming when the Scorpio releases.

 

[TsuWave]

What does he mean by "you have things like Zelda or HZD that come out and do very well but their impact is not as it used to be"?

 

[Hoo-doo]

Right, but I remember post after post bragging about Rez and power. I just wondered what happened is all.

Nothing happened, the same will happen come holiday season when Xbox Scorpio will undoubtedly show off higher resolutions than the other consoles. The cycle will repeat.

I just don't think that that conversation extends into hard sales potential, to be honest.

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

What does he mean by "you have things like Zelda or HZD that come out and do very well but their impact is not as it used to be"?

Cannot monetize with loot boxes only the occasional DLC.

 

[VincentMatts]

E3 is the time to shine.

Really looking forward to seeing what they announce/reveal.

Considering most games are on a 2-3 years cycle, i doubt well see much new this year.

 

[Linkified]

I agree with him to a point, but these sound like excuses. It really comes down to "it's hard, so we aren't going to try". They will continue to make partnerships to get some exclusive story driven content, but at the end of the day, it will not match what the competition is doing, because they don't really care about it.

Thing is they are in a damned if you do damned if you don't they released games like Sunset Overdrive, Quantum Break, Recore all single player games one with a little MP. Gamers responded with we want single player games but not those.

I don't envy the position but I would prefer games that kept on continually to update over 10 years than be one and done.

 

[gamz]

Don't worry those posts are coming when the Scorpio releases.

And around we go. So damn funny...

 

[JaggedSac]

Don't worry those posts are coming when the Scorpio releases.

There won't be any games so there won't be anyhting to discuss. At least it will have a UHD Blu Ray so people could watch movies that make use of their 4k TV's.

 

[StereoVsn]

Yep. It's probably wise to chase after that games as a service stuff, but I get that from third parties on the PS4, I'm much more interested in AAA SP games. MS isn't in financial trouble and I don't care how much money they make. I want games I'm interested in.

This is the issue. Sure people like to play the big multiplats. They will get that with Destiny 2, Division 2 (when that comes), Battlefront 2, etc... However, PS4 also offers other games in its library which makes the choice easy for most players. They can still play all the multiplats but they can dabble and play bunch of great single player games in a variety of genres.

Is another one or two multiplayer GaaS titles going to change the overall picture? My guess is that its not. Maybe these games will make money for MS but they are unlikely to lure many additional players over.

 

[The Salt Life]

Fable Legends.

They never released that, I said what was released that failed because someone said "Microsoft can't pull it off" or something like that.

What does he mean by "you have things like Zelda or HZD that come out and do very well but their impact is not as it used to be"?

These games are only hot for a short time.

The whole interview is basically "I wish we still had bungie"

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

There won't be any games so there won't be anyhting to discuss. At least it will have a UHD Blu Ray so people could watch movies that make use of their 4k TV's.

Those posts necessarily come with third party multiplats because you can't compare an exclusive.

There will be lots of third party games. I know you're probably joking though.

 

[leeh]

You are still riding out an avatar bet you lost by betting on a wild fantasy. Maybe go easy on the out of touch talk.

Lol what? GAF is in touch with the mass market?

 

[VincentMatts]

There won't be any games so there won't be anyhting to discuss. At least it will have a UHD Blu Ray so people could watch movies that make use of their 4k TV's.

Im pretty sure 3rd parties haven't left MS behind. This is Scorpio, not switch.

 

[mysteriousmage09]

I let you in on a secret: Power discussion are only big when there is fuck all to play.

This. For the longest time it was nothing but playing the same games on either platform with the occasional exclusive like The Order:1886 or Sunset Overdrive, but for the most part they were pretty much background noise to CoD and Assassins Creed, etc. Now though? Sony has put out one of the most aggressive waves of exclusive games i've seen in the last decade.

Just look at the offerings of the last 6 months for PS4 and Xbox One.

 

[Hoo-doo]

They never released that, I said what was released that failed because someone said "Microsoft can't pull it off" or something like that.

So then you agree they didn't 'pull it off'? Because that was supposed to be their AAA GaaS title and yet they canned it after investing millions.

 

[LKSmash]

Im pretty sure 3rd parties haven't left MS behind.

He has a halo avatar. I think he's being sarcastic.

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

This. For the longest time it was nothing but playing the same games on either platform with the occasional exclusive like The Order:1886 or Sunset Overdrive, but for the most part they were pretty much background noise to CoD and Assassins Creed, etc. Now though? Sony has put out one of the most aggressive push exclusive games i've seen in the last decade.

Just look at the offerings of the last 6 months for PS4 and Xbox One.

Power discussion is always about the comparison of third party games that release on both consoles and sometimes PC. Are you saying there weren't those games in the last six months?