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[Principate]

Found the gif.

Doing this non-motion controllers probably requires two button presses and tilting two analog sticks. Doing this with motion just requires two punches while tilting.

The bigger question is if this is possible while moving and if so that makes everything a lot more complicated.

Which are pretty much the same thing in terms of inputs. Motion you inflate with forward and twist whatever. Same with sticks. You dash with the other triggers/buttons. Should be easy to do while moving with non motion.

 

[Totakeke]

Which are pretty much the same thing in terms of inputs. Motion you inflate with forward and twist whatever. Same with sticks. You dash with the other triggers/buttons. Should be easy to do while moving with non motion.

You can move backwards and forwards though. Can't do that with just triggers unless you really complicate the whole control scheme. The difference between a punch and a move forward is a punching motion vs a forward tilt for motion controls. That's not available to non-motion controls without additional button presses.

 

[Diprosalic]

That's the weird thing has no one outside of this writer bothered to use the physical controls or were they not available.

they don't showcase the game with anything but motion controls. it was always the same demo that they used since january. they're probably a bit more open now about that stuff and have a (close to) final version of the game for journalists to try out.

 

[Peléo]

I thought the same thing at first, but then I realized that this was for a single Joy-Con.

Huh, that would be good news. Hopefully, other schemes are available.

 

[Principate]

You can move backwards and forwards though. Can't do that with just triggers unless you really complicate the whole control scheme.

Yeah but how do you do that with with motion either. That's what I'm not getting at. That requires a separate input either way. The punching and moving forward inputs would have to be different.

they don't showcase the game with anything but motion controls. it was always the same demo that they used since january. they're probably a bit more open now about that stuff and have a (close to) final version of the game for journalists to try out.

How do you move forward with motion controls.

 

[cireza]

Doing this non-motion controllers probably requires two button presses and tilting two analog sticks. Doing this with motion just requires two punches while tilting.

Only push the stick to launch the punch ? No need for another button pressed.

 

[Skyzard]

You click the left stick to guard

Yikes.

Man, I hate anything that involves clicking in the sticks tbh but guarding? You're gonna need to do that a lot...

 

[Diprosalic]

How do you move forward with motion controls.

tilt the controllers slightly forward.

 

[Principate]

tilt the controllers slightly forward.

Can you do that while punching simultaneously. As in same input.

 

[nynt9]

no it doesn't.
unless they updated it after launch.

 

[Totakeke]

Can you do that while punching simultaneously. As in same input.

Are you talking about gyros for tilting the controller forward? Or are you talking about just using analog sticks?

 

[Principate]

Are you talking about gyros for tilting the controller forward? Or are you talking about just using analog sticks?

Gyro's.

 

[Plum]

Was anyone expecting single joy-con play to work well? I mean, it's great to have an option but having only one more button overall than the SNES controler doesn't lend itself well to many games and genres.

I'm more interested in how the Pro-Con/Grip/Handheld controls work, that should hopefully have enough in terms of buttons that motion controls don't become the only "good" way to play the game.

 

[Totakeke]

Gyro's.

Then you still end up using motion controls, just in a different way. I'm sure there's also people against that notion. That's also probably why they did not describe non-motion controls when using two joy cons separately.

 

[NEO0MJ]

I'm PMing a mod to ad more details to the thread title.

Only push the stick to launch the punch ? No need for another button pressed.

You have two different arms, though. You're not just launching one punch after the other, sometimes you'll want to use a different fist depending on the situation.

 

[Diprosalic]

Can you do that while punching simultaneously. As in same input.

i don't think you can move at all while punching, you can't do that in most fighting games no? you can jump forward and backward and it keeps the momentum if you punch in the air.

 

[go_straight]

Then you still end up using motion controls, just in a different way. I'm sure there's also people against that notion. That's also probably why they did not describe non-motion controls when using two joy cons separately.

gyro =/= swinging your hards in the air

I guess?

 

[Principate]

Then you still end up using motion controls, just in a different way. I'm sure there's also people against that notion. That's also probably why they did not describe non-motion controls when using two joy cons separately.

Yes but if you can't do that in motion controls (punch and move in at the same time), then it's really no difficult than physical and you can probably replicate punch and move with physical anyway. All of that theoretically should be possible with physical with minimal differences in terms of convenience. There should be gameplay options open to one and not the other.

 

[Totakeke]

gyro =/= swinging your hards in the air

I guess?

Sure, but it's not like Splatoon required swinging your hands around and a number of people didn't like it either.

 

[Principate]

i don't think you can move at all while punching, you can't do that in most fighting games no? you can jump forward and backward and it keeps the momentum if you punch in the air.

That's what I thought. So yeah that's all easily replicate-able with a pro controller. There would just be a separate move forward button.

Basically this

RB = Right punch
LB= Left punch
RT=dash right
LT=Dash Left
Right stick right arm angle
Left stick left arm angle
A or something jump
B move forward.
X super.
Click or another button block.
another button back or whatever.

 

[Vital Tundra]

Wait so this is just for a single joycon or what?

 

[UnemployedVillain]

I had a feeling that the "traditional controls" people were clamoring for wouldn't be as precise. I kept wondering to myself, "How are you going to be able to curve your punches?" With the same stick that controls your movement, apparently.

It's the same as Splatoon. If you play without gyro, especially with a charger, you're significantly disadvantaging yourself and your team

 

[dickroach]

I had no idea there was gonna be non-motion controls.
my interest just got bumped up from 0 to 1

 

[StreetsAhead]

Just me or you can move while punching, at least a little bit, in the video on this tweet?

 

[Herb Alpert]

I would be really disappointed if classic controls weren't as precise as motion controls. I mean, they talked about e sports, do they really imagine an motion based e sport?

 

[Jonneh3003]

Have we not passed the "motion controls=bad" mindset? Hopefully dual joycons provide a better traditional experience for those who really hate motion.

 

[Principate]

Have we not passed the "motion controls=bad" mindset?

Why did you even think that. I mean really why on earth do you think the wii and "waggle" are still demonised.

 

[Vital Tundra]

Have we not passed the "motion controls=bad" mindset?

Im sure most of us have a level head about it, but I don't think anyone should be forced to use them when there are possible ways to do without. I for one really dont want to have to swing my arms around to play a game. I loved my Wii but even playing Metroid for over an hour put strain on my hand.

 

[brinstar]

I had a feeling this was gonna be the case, I don't have a problem with motion controls at all but I do hope I can get used to the other scheme for portable mode sessions.

 

[nynt9]

Have we not passed the "motion controls=bad" mindset? Hopefully dual joycons provide a better traditional experience for those who really hate motion.

They're not bad, but for certain types of motion that requires gestures instead of one-to-one tilt mapping, they have input lag and can be imprecise. Not what you'd want in a competitive game. For aiming they're pretty good. Also, they can cause fatigue in extended play sessions depending on how they're implemented. And given the appeal of the switch is that you can use it as a handheld, the game needs to play just as good in handheld mode. So no motion controls there.

 

[Devil]

I'm not saying it's bound to happen again with arms, but in the past Nintendo made same stupid things concerning controls in order to support the lowest common denominator like Wii mote only controls. Mario 3D World, NSMB and DKTF really suffered from the fact that supported controllers with more buttons were not allowed to actually use them. Although they are still great games.

Edit:
I should clarify that I already played the game with motion controls and liked it.

 

[BNGames]

I don't want motion controls myself, map it to a controller right or its a no buy for me.

 

[Herb Alpert]

Have we not passed the "motion controls=bad" mindset?

I'm sorry, I really don't like motion based games... I get bored really quick and I find them inaccurate. I would like to love them but I just can't...

 

[DMONKUMA]

Figure this would be the case for single joycon especially when they even said that it would work with limited functions.

Patiently waiting to see the portable scheme.

 

[rjc571]

I'm sorry, I really don't like motion based games... I get bored really quick and I find them inaccurate. I would like to love them but I just can't...

Have you ever used the motion controls on the Switch or are you basing your opinion on the one time you used the original Wiimote in 2006

 

[JoeM86]

I'm sorry, I really don't like motion based games... I get bored really quick and I find them inaccurate. I would like to love them but I just can't...

I don't like them either, but after playing ARMS I can't imagine playing it with buttons

 

[Principate]

I'm not saying it's bound to happen again with arms, but in the past Nintendo made same stupid things concerning controls in order to support the lowest common denominator like Wii mote only controls. Mario 3D World, NSMB and DKTF really suffered from the fact that supported controllers with more buttons were not allowed to actually use them. Although they are still great games.

There should be the option really this isn't the wii people aren't paying the switch with motion as an optional feature all control schemes outside of single joycon should be equally viable unless there's something specially that absolutely cannot be replicated by another.

 

[atr0cious]

Wireless controllers & fighting game tournaments don't mix very well.

You'll be fine, the last two tourneys showed they have the ability to wire joycons.

Just me or you can move while punching, at least a little bit, in the video on this tweet?

You can with motion controls.

 

[MouldyK]

I would be really disappointed if classic controls weren't as precise as motion controls. I mean, they talked about e sports, do they really imagine an motion based e sport?

No, they imagine people to go into the Esports without Motion and get creamed because the game is designed to be played optimatally with Motion.

 

[Regiruler]

If the full controller setup is different, they need to detail it, pronto.

People don't like being treated like red headed step children for not using motion.

 

[atr0cious]

People don't like being treated like red headed step children for not using motion.

Splatoon did fine. And it'll be inferior to motion controls, so why not learn them?

 

[StreetsAhead]

You'll be fine, the last two tourneys showed they have the ability to wire joycons.
You can with motion controls.

I know, I thought there was discussion about whether movement was possible at all during punches. If I was misreading, I apologise.

 

[Blackquill]

Have we not passed the "motion controls=bad" mindset? Hopefully dual joycons provide a better traditional experience for those who really hate motion.

I like motion controls when it's appropriate, I loved Sin & punishement 2, Trauma Team or Skyward Sword more thanks to that but for a fighting game which requires as much accuracy as possible it's just a no-no for me. Even after playing the game with motions controls I would rather play on a single joy-con scheme than this

 

[MouldyK]

Splatoon did fine. And it'll be inferior to motion controls, so why not learn them?

Using your own body is not as accurate as using a controller...

...according to some people.

I remember people having this debate in June 2014 about Splatoon and Gyro Aiming and then I was the first person at EGX 2014 in September to play it...it worked fine.

Played ARMS the week before the Switch came out and had no issues with using the motion.


But some people don't like change.

I mean, can someone show me a game which maps Left and Right arms to each Thumbstick and it works well? As in "Gee, this game tracks my swings so accurately I wouldn't need motion at all!"

 

[DrLazy]

Left analog stick is used for both player movement and aiming left punch. Since you can do left punch and right punch at the same time and tilt them in different directions it's impossible to map tilting to just one analog stick.

I get it, people don't like motion controls. But I'd rather they design the game for the control scheme that best fits the game then to make the combat less interesting to placate the set of gamers who have closed off trying motion control games. Nintendo makes ballsy control choices all the time. Sometimes it works out sometimes it doesn't

 

[Totakeke]

I know, I thought there was discussion about whether movement was possible at all during punches. If I was misreading, I apologise.

There is. How do you curve left punch rightwards, right punch leftwards, while moving left at the same time? Even for motion controls that's a question that doesn't have a clear answer to. If the punch curve is only determined when the punch is initiated it might be still plausible, if it's not then there must be some limitations to it.

 

[TotalMackerel]

I don't want motion controls myself, map it to a controller right or its a no buy for me.

Yeah this info has dropped Arms off my buy list. I'm up for trying motion controls but if playing with a pro controller is not a complete experience, I'm out.

 

[Principate]

There is. How do you curve left punch rightwards, right punch leftwards, while moving left at the same time? Even for motion controls that's a question that doesn't have a clear answer to. If the punch curve is only determined when the punch is initiated it might be still plausible, if it's not then there must be some limitations to it.

I mean if both sticks control punches it would actually be very easy to do that dashing left or right with traditional. you simply hold the dash and the punch. Moving forward and doing it would be a bit more difficult in all scenarios but possible.

 

[Totakeke]

I mean if both sticks control punches it would actually be very easy to do that dashing left or right with traditional. you simply hold the dash and the punch. Moving forward and doing it would be a bit more difficult in all scenarios but possible.

Control schemes have to be intuitive in some fashion. You can't map leftwards, rightwards, forwards, backwards movement to four trigger buttons without it feeling you're juggling with some monstrosity. And then what if I want to dash/evade instead of move? I'll have to grow another thumb to push another button while controlling the analog stick?

 

[MouldyK]

Yeah this info has dropped Arms off my buy list. I'm up for trying motion controls but if playing with a pro controller is not a complete experience, I'm out.

What do you mean "Complete Experience"? If the Motion gives an advantage, is the Pro Controller not a "Complete Experience"?

I can't get a "Complete Experience" of shifting gears in a racing game without a wheel and gearbox...better not play them.