gutter_trash
Banned
Hillary was Left of Obama domestically.LOOK AT THAT BITCH OVER THERE EATING CRACKERS.
Seriously. Mega eyerolls.
Oh you mean like Hillary Clinton.
Only on foreign affairs was she mainstream
Hillary was Left of Obama domestically.LOOK AT THAT BITCH OVER THERE EATING CRACKERS.
Seriously. Mega eyerolls.
Oh you mean like Hillary Clinton.
He was blue dog territory.
Do you think his 2016 platform would have really been any different than Hillary's?
Bernie Sanders is also a long term member of the US Senate.And this is exactly what would have sank him against Trump.
Bernie Sanders is also a long term member of the US Senate.
This is not an establishment vs anti-establishment problem as people frame it.
And this is exactly what would have sank him against Trump.
No, it's a problem of record, if you look at Joe's voting and policy history he's center/right leaning as fuck.
Any Bernie supporter who's cheerleading the idea of "Uncle Diamond Glass what the fuck ever Joe" are clearly people who vote purely on personality and empty promise and not at all on platform or policies.
Diamond Joe is right
I'm really confused where this comes from.
She was Senator for 8 years, followed by 4 years as Secretary of State. Even if you want to tack on her time as First lady for both Arkansas and Pres. She will still fall about 10 years short of Biden.
Biden has 25 years as a Senator, 8 years as VP, With multiple years on several of the Senate Committees
You're implying the vast majority of voters cares to inform themselves on policy and don't just use their gut to vote.Any Bernie supporter who's cheerleading the idea of "Uncle Diamond Glass what the fuck ever Joe" are clearly people who vote purely on personality and empty promise and not at all on platform or policies.
I'm really confused where this comes from.
She was Senator for 8 years, followed by 4 years as Secretary of State. Even if you want to tack on her time as First lady for both Arkansas and Pres. She will still fall about 10 years short of Biden.
Biden has 25 years as a Senator, 8 years as VP, With multiple years on several of the Senate Committees
this is a weird point to bring up considering hillary's support over bernie was largely justified as being a more pragmatic choice against trump as opposed to who was more progressive
I'm basing my assessment on the words coming out of their respective mouths. Hillary appears smarter and more knowledgeable in general, with a deeper understanding of geopolitics.
What a shitty thing to say.
I don't think it would have made a difference. His son dying was tragic but I can't help but think he would have been discouraged to run anyway. Dems were betting everything on Hillary and wanted to keep it as clean as possible. Hillary vs Joe would have been a mud slinging fest and both would have likely resorted to stupid petty attacks to one up each other. Sort of like 08.Biden/Warren 2016 if Beau didn't pass away.
this is a weird point to bring up considering hillary's support over bernie was largely justified as being a more pragmatic choice against trump as opposed to who was more progressive
What a shitty thing to say.
Pragmaticism != Centricism
Hillary's policies were more realistic compared to Bernie's, but she was still progressive.
Biden isn't.
If he wouldn't have beaten Clinton, he sure as hell wouldn't have beaten Trump.He absolutely would have been a better candidate, but would he have won the primaries? I can see him losing to Clinton. She really had the deck stacked in her favor.
It's true. She's not good at actually running for office. Doesn't mean she's a bad person, just that a candidacy want the right role for her.this is just dumb
i agree completely with him. She doesn't connect well at all while campaigning
She wasn't a good candidate because she is not well liked as political person. Add in people were sick of her and her husband.
Biden would have been sunk in the primary. Things like the crime bill, the bankruptcy bills etc aren't fresh in voters minds.
No, it's a problem of record, if you look at Joe's voting and policy history he's center/right leaning as fuck.
Any Bernie supporter who's cheerleading the idea of "Uncle Diamond Glass what the fuck ever Joe" are clearly people who vote purely on personality and empty promise and not at all on platform or policies.
at the SALT hedge fund conference
If he wouldn't have beaten Clinton, he sure as hell wouldn't have beaten Trump.
If he wouldn't have beaten Clinton, he sure as hell wouldn't have beaten Trump.
eh, can't really compare primaries to a general election, but he probably would've lost the primary. I firmly believe that.
That's not necessarily true. From the start, Hillary had support from many key figures in the DNC as well as some superdelegates. When you're only running against people from your own party, that kind of support matters more than when you're running against the opposition.If he wouldn't have beaten Clinton, he sure as hell wouldn't have beaten Trump.
Considering that in 2008, Biden fizzled out early while Obama just barely scraped ahead on delegates, with Clinton winning the actual popular vote, the answer is probably no. Sanders massively underperformed the last upstart to come from behind and win the Democratic primary against the established favorite.I think it's a fair question to ask whether a three-candidate primary of Clinton, Biden, and Sanders wouldn't have resulted in the nomination of Sanders.
Which is completely irrelevant. Support from the party elite doesn't explain why the rank and file voted so overwhelmingly in favor of Clinton, especially in the later contests and major Democratic strongholds.That's not necessarily true. From the start, Hillary had support from many key figures in the DNC as well as some superdelegates. When you're only running against people from your own party, that kind of support matters more than when you're running against the opposition.
This is why the best candidate for the general election should be chosen. Being #1 in your own echo chamber doesn't mean much.That's not necessarily true. From the start, Hillary had support from many key figures in the DNC as well as some superdelegates. When you're only running against people from your own party, that kind of support matters more than when you're running against the opposition.
I think it's a fair question to ask whether a three-candidate primary of Clinton, Biden, and Sanders wouldn't have resulted in the nomination of Sanders.
Considering that in 2008, Biden fizzled out early while Obama just barely scraped ahead on delegates, with Clinton winning the actual popular vote, the answer is probably no. Sanders massively underperformed the last upstart to come from behind and win the Democratic primary against the established favorite.
Which is completely irrelevant. Support from the party elite doesn't explain why the rank and file voted so overwhelmingly in favor of Clinton, especially in the later contests and major Democratic strongholds.
ThisConsidering that in 2008, Biden fizzled out early while Obama just barely scraped ahead on delegates, with Clinton winning the actual popular vote, the answer is probably no. Sanders massively underperformed the last upstart to come from behind and win the Democratic primary against the established favorite.
Which is completely irrelevant. Support from the party elite doesn't explain why the rank and file voted so overwhelmingly in favor of Clinton, especially in the later contests and major Democratic strongholds.
And this.I agree with pretty much all of this.
Biden ran multiple times in the past and went nowhere.
Hillary ran for president twice, getting 48% and 55% in her two runs. When she did actually win, it was a pretty overwhelming win, by about 4 million votes, getting huge, massive leads in a bunch of important battleground states. It was a solid win that is hilariously downplayed by abstract arguments about superdelegate support, etc.
If Biden thought he would have won the primary, he would have run. If he couldn't get more than a few percent when he was at his peak, how could he have done substantially better in his 70s while dealing with loss, and facing an even more lopsided powerful frontrunner?
Between that and Chafee's "it was my first day," that was a hell of an awkward debate. O'Malley was there, too. I think. Who could say.
Biden himself signaled the problem at that awkward Rose Garden ceremony, sounding the very populist refrain that would soon bolster Sanders and rattle the best-laid plans of Obama and Clinton. Reflecting a party whose base has been racing left much faster than either the president or his designated successor had realized, Biden used his improvised speech that daysquinting into a low autumn sun as the boss stood nearby, arms foldedfor a blunt discussion of all the progressive goals his boss had not achieved, calling for a reorientation of the party toward a simpler message of economic fairness. We cant sustain the current levels of economic inequality, he said. The political elite the next president is going to have to take it on.
A few blocks away, two unassuming barbarians at the gates were sitting in a bar across from the old Washington Post, after being stood up by a pair of reporters who had been diverted to the Biden announcement. Sanders campaign manager Jeff Weaver and strategist Tad Devine gnawed their sandwiches and watched Biden on a flat-screen TV above the liquor bottles, astonished as he hit virtually every element of their own insurgent platform: free public college tuition, a nonpartisan pitch to independents and blue-collar Republicans, a call for purging big money from politics.
Holy shit, Devine said. Thats our message. Thats what were running on.
Everyone seemed to get it. Except Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton.
Leads me to believe the reason why Biden didn't run in 2016 wasn't because he was still in mourning.
That's the gag. Joe lost and lost HARD both times he ran.He already lost what 2-3 times? I don't think he even got as far as Hillary or Bernie did. We all know what he said has a ring of truth but he wasn't a great candidate either. Worse IMO because the Obama legacy would've been an even bigger anchor around his neck and some Obama voters lost faith.
Considering that in 2008, Biden fizzled out early while Obama just barely scraped ahead on delegates, with Clinton winning the actual popular vote, the answer is probably no. Sanders massively underperformed the last upstart to come from behind and win the Democratic primary against the established favorite.
Biden was a better candidate than Hillary for one reason only: optics. He is perceived as more likeable and charismatic. So if that's all that matters to you, then sure he would've been better. If you ever complained about the Democratic party policies not being progressive enough, or Hillary being too far to the right, you sure as fuck shouldn't be saying Biden would've been the better choice.