Muffin1611
Banned
Why would anyone assume she doesn't understand that Britain is still in Europe even if she said it like that? It's simply easier to say Europeans or Americans instead of EU/US citizens and everyone knows what is meant.
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Merkel warns US, Britain no longer reliable partners
- Thread starter Xando
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Why would anyone assume she doesn't understand that Britain is still in Europe even if she said it like that? It's simply easier to say Europeans or Americans instead of EU/US citizens and everyone knows what is meant.
With little brain effort put into this, its obivious that with Europe she talks about ter EU.
Oh ze Germans are at it again, aren't they.
chromatic9
Member
Maybe a language barrier or intentional.
There's been a few "us Europeans" from Donald Tusk and Merkel. Sounds very exclusionary to my ears and makes it sound we were never seen as Europeans from mainland Europe and creates this us an them mentality sadly and confirms some peoples suspicion.
Probably going to need 5-10 years for the bitterness to mostly subside, if the UK does actually leave.
The joke is on the country who always wanted a special treatment I guess
Muffin1611
Banned
This is simply hilarious in the context of Brexit. The EU is behaving too exclusionary?
It's a thing of talking. Saying "Europeans" in the context of talking about the EU and Britain is simply easier to say and everybody knows what is meant. You're reading too much into it.
This is quite ironic coming from the country wanting to leave because they didn't want more EU foreigners
excelsiorlef
Member
chromatic9
Member
You're getting the wrong end of the stick. I'm not saying Brexit isn't exclusionary.
Of course and that is extremely obvious and should go without saying. Holy cow.
Well they are not wrong for wanting that, think nothing represents the problem better than one of their main campaign image:
yes I'm aware this is nazi propaganda not the actual campaign image. Also in case it is not obvious its a joke, to highlight how xenophobic and exclusionary the brexit leave campaign was, and how strangely well accepted it was.
Nevermind leaving (and thus killing) the TPP. Trump fucked over US interests hard, in both Asia and Europe.
Hillary was a fool to try and get support from Sanders/Trump voters by saying she was against the TPP. She should have been more courageous and defended it. What a shame.
DarthMasta
Member
She's just one step ahead of the game, already thinking about the time Britain moves further into the Atlantic, a fuller, harder Brexit, Rolls-Royce is already hard at work on the oversized jet engines that will be required...
The UK acted like they are their own thing all the decades up to Brexit.
Its completly hilarious to now go on semantics like that.
hobblygobbly
Member
I guess it's because people like Tusk see Brexit for what it was though, a result driven mostly by English nationalism. A lot of English nationalists (even "casual" nationalists) don't see themselves as "European", they're always talking about "those Europeans" when referring to Germans, Spaniards, French, Poles, etc or their governments. We all know how much Brexit was driven by this nationalistic sentiment drummed up by people like UKIP. It's why Scotland's SNP explicitly talks about being outward looking and pro-European in contrast to the opposite of English nationalism.
Muffin1611
Banned
You're saying EU officials are behaving exclusionary by a way of talking that you're interpreting something into.
While these talks are about a country that is actually behaving extremely exclusionary.
Oh you little butterflies
sechsterangriff
Member
Anecdotal, I've lost count at English people both in the UK and tourists saying "in Europe" and "you Europeans" as if they themselves weren't a part of it. * shrugs *
To the point they had recently negotiated extra benefits that separated them even further from the rest of us commoners.
chromatic9
Member
Probably so.
EU politicians can have a sly dig if they wish (if this is the case sometimes). Just that 48% did vote remain, some are on the fence and I hope in the future UK can one day re-apply when ready. Tis all I'm saying, no need for everyone to getting their EU panties in a bunch.
Exactly. Hearing that tone back can possibly make the situation worse although everyone is free to do if. I voted remain so I hope things can remain cordial.
Goddamnit. I want to be sympathetic towards the UK but then I read utter nonsense like this and it gets more and more difficult.
Only in Germany you have the chancellors challenger defending Merkel.
Cosmonaut X
Member
I think he's right to say what he says, though I wonder if the "allow him- or herself to be treated that way" was a subtle jab at Merkel, or if something was lost in translation?
Regardless, if Trump (the Master) wants EU disintegration, behaving as he has thsee past few days is far more likely to have the opposite effect, driving allies closer together and encouraging closer cooperation and renewed purpose for the European Project.
This. US Obama seems so far away, Trump acting as a villain is deterioring our relationship at a way faster rate than I expected. Macron and Merkel are not amused nor looking away.
rokkerkory
Member
This is sad to hear but there is truth to it. I would hope if it comes to it, UK and US will be there for any of their partners and vice versa.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
Orig: "Niemand braucht sich in der Form demütigen lassen."
Thats no jab at Merkel. Using "braucht" here is just a bit colloquial so the translation was tricky. A better translation would probably be: "No elected official should have to endure such treatment."
nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
I can't believe the UK wouldn't get involved if a EU state was threatened, even if that sentiment isn't reciprocated.
Cosmonaut X
Member
It's remarkable how quickly he's caused so much damage. I grew up with Reagan and Bush, and became more aware of US politics with Clinton and Bush Jr, and even the shift from Clinton to W wasn't as immediately awful as this.
Thanks - I wondered if the translation was stumbling on a tricky point. Your translation makes it much clearer, and it loses the implication that she had "allowed" the way Trump behaved.
PdotMichael
Banned
The joke is that is UK rhetoric normally. Europe normally refers to continental Europe in the UK.
To this he just doesn't understand how it works...
Edit: Sorry, wrong tweet first. Now right one.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/869503804307275776
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/869509894688387072
Edit: Sorry, wrong tweet first. Now right one.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/869503804307275776
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/869509894688387072
Muffin1611
Banned
To this he just doesn't understand how it works...
Edit: Sorry, wrong tweet first. Now right one.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/869503804307275776
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/869509894688387072
The first tweet chain under that Germany tweet is making my head spin.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
I see Mutti needs to sit down with America's child in command and teach him again the fundamentals of European trade. Or just send him Tusk, Merkel is probably screaming internally.
When the heck is he going to appoint the American ambassador to the EU anyway?
When the heck is he going to appoint the American ambassador to the EU anyway?
Muffin1611
Banned
She reportedly did just last month:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...germany-chancellor-us-president-a7699591.html
11 times.
This guy just has the attention span of a mayfly.
Edit: Nvm, didn't see that "again"
He didn't end up appointing that guy who openly said how he wants to see EU fail and fall apart?
Nah, that was the little person who lives inside his head and pulls the triggers, Steve Bannon.
Turns out that guy told everyone he was being considered but wasn't actually.
The reaction to last weekend's meetings is kind of shocking. Whatever happened behind closed doors must've the opposite of what NATO and G7 leaders wanted. There's now serious talk of changing big longterm strategies. We might've witnessed the beginning of a new era. Whatever that means.
All these Trump tweets have awful tweet chains. Really shows a big weakness of Twitter's algorithms. Not sure why certain accounts just bombaring those tweets get so much free attention from Twitter.
EU cant depend on US to handle its foreign affairs forever. So Trump saying it as it is, is good for the EU and things like Ukraine might not happen again.
And why exactly would US have enormous trade deficit with Germany and handle all of the messy foreign affairs for the "west"? I deplore Trump and think he is an idiot but it really makes no sense from US standpoint. It makes sense from our European view though.
I love EU project, I love EU... i think it is best thing that happened to Europe. But when it comes to foreign affairs, we do head in sand and pretend bad things never happen. We have no stance and no influence on global affairs. Any kind of larger issue is not handled in appropriate time.
So having a big ally that handles everything for us has been very nice... we spend much less money on military, we focus on trade and giving our population more benefits. Awesome for us. It could not have lasted forever.
Dangansona
Member
I don't understand why... How does their political leanings affect the US? Are they afraid people will wake up and learn how much of a joke this country is compared to most of the EU countries?
Desperate times require extreme measures. EU should send Schäuble.
Muffin1611
Banned
Trump would make fun of him afterwards at a rally.
The EU doesn't depend on the US to handle its foreign affairs.
Trump wasn't saying it as it is, because what he said is not at all the reality, since the other NATO countries don't owe anything even if they aren't at the 2% GDP, since that is absolutely not at all how things work (like not even fucking close), not to mention it was just targets and set for several years into the future and so on and so forth (been discussed to death).
Ukraine would have happened regardless, Ukraine is not a NATO member or an EU member, if it was it would almost assuredly resulted in a war between NATO the EU countries and Russia, which is ofc also why Russia was willing to do it in the first place.
How is the US having a deficit (which we are for some reason assuming its automatically bad) with Germany be at all Germany fault? It's not as if Germany is influencing the prices of USA goods.
EU gives quite a bit of money for foreign aid (several times more than the USA), supports other including the USA in their foreign conflicts (once again USA the only country ever to use NATO article 5), has taken many times more refugees than the USA (Syrian refugee crisis, have you heard about it?), and is engaged with the world, EU is one of the worlds largest economies, it was even bigger than the USA economy (from a pure GDP perspective) before the financial crisis, it is pretty safe to say any economy of that size isn't just "do head in the sand".
So yeah I see the tag is well deserved.
Gurgelhals
Member
In the inevitable grand coalition after the elections, Merkel should make Schulz foreign secretary and give him full reign in all Trumpian matters. He has learned to deal with all kinds of moronic populist dipshits during his time in the European Parliament.
This would be the perfect scenario but I feel like Schulz would rather step back
To this he just doesn't understand how it works...
Edit: Sorry, wrong tweet first. Now right one.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/869503804307275776
You see, this is where Donald Trump is starting to do some real harm to the United States. The things he has done in the past, even things like (trying to) ruin(ing) healthcare are things that are relatively easy to reverse once someone with a tiny bit of intelligence is in office.
But this shit, this drives former allies and partners to understand that the business and co-dependency they have with this foreign force is too fickle to remain to rely on. And they will start irreversible steps to eliminate that risk. Once they do so, that's it. No coming back for that.
So I guess Trump does run the US like he does his businesses, straight into the ground.
Pandora012
Member
It was bound to happen when the tea party became a thing.
Regginator
Member
But isn't a united Europe the last thing Putin wants? Because Trump is well on his way to do that.
Well, a strong united Europe doesn't happen over night. First he would like a weakened NATO and he's getting it right now.
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