I'm not following your logic here.
How was voting for Bernie in the primary a mistake? That would only make sense if he won the nomination and then lost in November (and even that is arguable as being a "mistake").
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Vox: Bernie Sanders is the Democrats real 2020 frontrunner
- Thread starter Oni Jazar
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I'm not following your logic here.
How was voting for Bernie in the primary a mistake? That would only make sense if he won the nomination and then lost in November (and even that is arguable as being a "mistake").
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Her district is wealthy, much more highly educated than the American average, and non-industrial. She's a Blue Dog because her seat consisted of Romney Republicans, not because it was the home of bluecollar workers.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
fair, that was with the caveat that it could only happen if he runs. I think he'd be great though.
Brown is facing a tougher reelection so if he is going to run he'll have to get reelected first. Warren I feel is much likelier, she has the national profile and her own base already that the newer faces don't. Murphy is a possibility but I honestly have no idea if he's interested in running at all, he's probably one of the closer senators to Bernie (and his foreign policy is better, except for being pretty iffy on Israel).
Bernie-type candidates are much more likely to be found in the House, which presents another problem, since representatives are substantially less likely to win than senators or governors.
The meanest, most horrible and intense Hillary fanboy on this forum, who basically went into every Sanders thread wishing he would die and said anyone who liked anything about Sanders at all is a racist directly responsible for trump recently got arrested for some pretty dodgy stuff so...I'm not surprised
Carpe Libertatem
Member
Sure, Clinton and her campaign failed on numerous levels. Not disputing that.
But acting as if Donald Trump only talked about policy and didn't use personal attacks is ridiculous. He is, like, the king of personal attacks.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Dude, his supporters literally cheered as he kicked liberals out and replaced them with Wall Street execs. Like, the evidence is against you on this one. They do not care that his White House is even more corrupt
balladofwindfishes
Member
Her former district is little towns, farm land and mountains.
Also her district voted for Obama in 2012
Bernie is old as shit but I'd still absolutely support his nomination. He's currently the only politician kicking and screaming who has political ideologies that fit my own pretty much 100%.
My biggest regret from the primaries was forgetting to register as a democrat so I could vote for him. I really wish I had been more politically active at the time.
Lowkey I really hope the investigation leads to declaring the election a mistrial and we'll get another shot.
My biggest regret from the primaries was forgetting to register as a democrat so I could vote for him. I really wish I had been more politically active at the time.
Lowkey I really hope the investigation leads to declaring the election a mistrial and we'll get another shot.
Are you fucking kidding me w/ this shit?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rensselaer_County,_New_York#Demographics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_County,_New_York#Demographics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_County,_New_York#Demographics
This is not a "wealthy district full of retirees". She was not representing the Hamptons. I don't know what you think of when you think Upstate NY, but it's not that.
Father_Brain
Banned
As well you should be. Personality-driven politics is an enormous part of what got the Democratic Party into its current mess.
I'm not even primarily talking about the 2016 election here; it's woefully apparent that Obama's enormous charisma prevented any real criticism of his policy failings or structural neglect of the party from getting traction.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Bigger issue than what?
El_Tiguere
Member
That's a shitty goalpost to have as an American. I think genuineness, a career of service, and the right forceful message of change are more important in 2020.
eBay Huckster said:
Baseless shit... as in, are you relying on the results from a Secretary of State run bought and paid for by big money in Ohio to extrapolate how her and her message would do on the national stage? isn't that baseless shit to you?
eBay Huckster said:
Again, who is the one extrapolating the results of one election into someone being now a "career loser"? who's side are you even on?
whyamihere
Banned
This is pretty incorrect. It was a poorer, rural district. I don't know where you're getting your information from.
Carter lost a few states, mostly to Kennedy.
Challenges are a thing, but it hasn't been successful.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
why didn't her amazing message break through the capitalists money bags
eBay Huckster
Member
the side that doesn't make endless excuses for their Wet Dream Candidates losing by a wider margin than a little-known Columbus city council member, for one. stop stanning people from my state if you aren't even going to pretend you actually have any fucking clue about it.
turner lost a cleveland city council election in 2001 (by 60%). her only subsequent electoral history was winning the same ward in an open-seat election by 3%, running unopposed in a gerrymandered district in 2010, and promptly losing to husted. she's a loser.
"bububu bought and paid for!" yeah, because as we all know, only state elections are influenced by money
GurgleBot20
Member
Father_Brain
Banned
I don't think anyone's arguing that, just that he paired his personal attacks with policy ideas - terrible, stupid, poorly thought-out policy ideas, but policy ideas nonetheless - to an extent that Clinton was singularly unable or unwilling to do (likely in large part due to her strategy of pursuing Romney voters).
Isaac Otherworld
Member
Yeah and? The same people who were Hillgaf are the same people pushing her vision for the Democratic party and fighting for that side of the ideological divide every political thread. It's the same people. The ideological divide is there. It's a useful term.
El_Tiguere
Member
That is all selective cognitive dissonance from them. They also see Trump coming through with his campaign promises, for example. They are deluded, but that is besides the point that Trump ran on an anti-establishment populist platform.
"bububu she lost the first time she ran!" and she won in 2004, got unanimously appointed in 2008, subsequently won the 2010 vote... but let me not distract from your "waaaaahhhh she lost ever, so no good!" simpleton position about a 2014 race for Secretary of State at the time John fucking Kasich won the governor's race.
Like Bernie himself, Turner rose to the top of the pack in his campaign because she lives and breathes the message that Americans are now craving. Show me a candidate with the principles and passion of Nina, and I will support him/her.
And_Gignac
Member
Didn't say any of those things, at least not when polls showed that Melenchon's and Fillon's voters were clearly getting their revolution fix with Macron rather than with Le Pen.
I love being called a closeted fascist by liberals though. Such an endearing cliche.
Oh god yes I love my Switch.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Whoever runs in 2020 is gonna have such a hard time. Can you imagine the bullshit that Trump will pull? If he tries to jail political opponents...
This is such a shitty post.
This is such a shitty post.
excelsiorlef
Member
This is a pretty disgusting thing to use as a weapon/pain brush.
whyamihere
Banned
The reality you live in is really bizarre imo
spiderman123
Member
Sanders is too old. Ppl are tired of old men and old women. I personally would love a 40ish to 40ish to 50ish female to run for president. If not the alternative is a male around the same age.
Poor GRIMES
Banned
this post is so bad it's kinda ban worthy tbh
eBay Huckster
Member
i'm kinda shook at "amirox is a pedophile so former hillary supporters are posting less" not even being the most disgusting bludgeon i've seen on OT
Lol no, Vox. Biden is where it's at. Biden's only "liability" in previous primaries was his occasional off-color remarks. Post-trump, this liability is laughable, at best.
Biden would be the perfect match up for Trump (if he makes it to 2020). He would be good against Pence too.
Biden would be the perfect match up for Trump (if he makes it to 2020). He would be good against Pence too.
Isaac Otherworld
Member
What?
balladofwindfishes
Member
Biden is also too old. Even if I'd personally like for him to run.
It's pretty bad but the constant drumbeat of "Bernie supporters are bros who are sexist and racist" is a lot worse
see PoliGAF 2016 for reference
VendettaRed07
Member
This is true.
It doesn't mean he'll win but he's a front runner no question honestly. If he runs I find it hard to see anyone else that has been mentioned beating him in Iowa or New Hampshire. And yeah there's a lot left after those two races but historically if you can win the first two you've likely got it wrapped up.
Which is also why it was funny that Bernie complained about the order of the states last time he ran because honestly the order of the states in the primary is clearly in his favor.
We can talk about "can you imagine Gillibrand talking to steel workers?!" All we want but that doesn't really matter. Can we imagine her beating him in the first two contests? Possibly, but I'd say Bernie easily has the advantage there.
We can look to the last primary and say "well Hillary beat Bernie here so he'll probably be beaten here again!" But I don't think that's the case. No one in the party no has the long reaching internal support or ability to gain every endorsement and get the sort of political backing that Hillary did. 2020 will be different due to Bernie's increased name recognition and his opponents not having the sort of concensus party support like last time.
People can say he's too old all day but it isn't like the age police are gonna come in and stop him from running. It only matters if he cares. If he's healthy I think he absolutely runs again.
It doesn't mean he'll win but he's a front runner no question honestly. If he runs I find it hard to see anyone else that has been mentioned beating him in Iowa or New Hampshire. And yeah there's a lot left after those two races but historically if you can win the first two you've likely got it wrapped up.
Which is also why it was funny that Bernie complained about the order of the states last time he ran because honestly the order of the states in the primary is clearly in his favor.
We can talk about "can you imagine Gillibrand talking to steel workers?!" All we want but that doesn't really matter. Can we imagine her beating him in the first two contests? Possibly, but I'd say Bernie easily has the advantage there.
We can look to the last primary and say "well Hillary beat Bernie here so he'll probably be beaten here again!" But I don't think that's the case. No one in the party no has the long reaching internal support or ability to gain every endorsement and get the sort of political backing that Hillary did. 2020 will be different due to Bernie's increased name recognition and his opponents not having the sort of concensus party support like last time.
People can say he's too old all day but it isn't like the age police are gonna come in and stop him from running. It only matters if he cares. If he's healthy I think he absolutely runs again.
legacyzero
Banned
I would love to see a nice, explosive, young progressive populist explode into the scene, that all dem voters can get behind, and that Republicans can call the antichrist.
Everybody wins!
Everybody wins!
balladofwindfishes
Member
Left populism doesn't have a very good winning record in the United States, at least for modern times.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
With the exception of Washington County, none of these are out of the norm, and fall, at best, into the lower middle class. You also conveniently skipped out on her wealthier countries, including Essex County ($53,976), Warren County ($56,798), and Dutchess County ($71,904!!!). That sort of cherrypicking should beneath you.
legacyzero
Banned
Gotta get FDR with it.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Add a touch of racism to it?
eBay Huckster
Member
so exclude minorities, violate basic human rights, and try to fuck with the supreme court's makeup in order to get left-leaning policy goals implemented, got it
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Not to derail too much but this was a fascinating piece about how left wing economic populists started losing Democratic primaries from the 60s through the 80s. It provides some perspective I don't often see: https://agenda-blog.com/2017/07/03/...beralism-and-the-white-working-class/#more-42
And_Gignac
Member
I think is more bizarre that you brought up this absolutely unrelated discussion here and that you seem to get so personally hurt by my candid Switch comments.
yes I'm sure it had nothing to do with the mass migration of Dixiecrats and the Southern strategy
whyamihere
Banned
I mean, most of those weren't also Romney Republicans that made up the majority of the district, though. You were fairly disingenuous with your description of her district, unless you meant the new NY-20, which, sure.
Well, the right complained he was a socialist (if I remember correctly from what Ive read a few years ago) and yet people apparently liked him a lot.
I thought the right liked racist people.
Carpe Libertatem
Member
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=225546715&postcount=194
Melkr_ said:
ok (although sure, recent posts are just you trying to say Melenchon has momentum and might win, so your predictions aren't infallible either way :lol). I didn't even really imply that you're a fascist, mostly just that you think only far left candidates can beat the far right which is a really bizarre take.
Beer Monkey
Member
He was a sore loser. He waited so long to concede and so long to endorse Hillary that it ended up helping Trump.
Hopefully he gets indicted for financial crimes and we don't have to be concerned that he'll even try to run.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
You get my point.- Status