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Vox: Bernie Sanders is the Democrats real 2020 frontrunner
- Thread starter Oni Jazar
- Start date
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Carpe Libertatem
Member
The primary ended a year ago. Move on.
eBay Huckster
Member
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
True, I found his description of a truck stop riveting and inspiring.
whyamihere
Banned
Don't you have somewhere better to be, like trying to find the real reasons why the Switch isn't doing as well as it actually is?
Knuckle Sandwich
Member
The current POTUS was a dummie with bad experience, critical errors in judgment and failed his his way up through life though.
El_Tiguere
Member
Nah, I'm pretty sure on both. Thanks for branding Nina as such... I couldn't have done it better myself.
Father_Brain
Banned
Nope, I'm just going by the facts.
https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2017/3/8/14848636/hillary-clinton-tv-ads
eBay Huckster
Member
the actual brand here is
"loser"
El_Tiguere
Member
Ah so you were just talking baseless shit... got it. Want to attack Lincoln next?
And_Gignac
Member
The primary is not a problem. BernGAF and HillGAF are still a thing because they represent the ideological divide in the Dems that won't be resolved until one side has a decisive electoral victory.
Saying that such divide is "imaginary" because the primary ended a year ago is a mistake imo.
Isaac Otherworld
Member
"Imaginary Hillgaf" what in the world are you talking about? Are you seriously contending that Hillary Clinton didn't have a group of seriously devoted supporters on neogaf? She absolutely did and still does. Most of them are all the same regulars. That's what Hillgaf means. Heck, most of them self identified with the term during the primaries. I seriously do not get what you're trying to say here.
Anyway, I don't have a victim complex. I'm pointing out your poor choice of priorities.
TheCochese
Banned
Sit the fuck down, Mr. Turner.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
barring winning a state legislature seat in a D+1000 district and then losing her bid for Secretary of State, what exactly has Nina Turner done? She should win an election or something if she wants to be a politician.
Carpe Libertatem
Member
TV ads are far from the only source of outreach in an election.
For instance, maybe the media should have covered Clinton's actual policy ideas, instead of e-mails.
It's certainly not as simplistic as "Trump talked policy and Hillary talked personal attacks."
Big Baybee
Member
Bernie should just endorse a candidate. He is too fucking old, point blank.
AmayaPapaya
Banned
If your fine with Biden, you should be fine with Bernie. Both guys are almost the same age.
Honestly, some people, even at that age, are fine. Bernie just ran a primary, so it would be hard for someone to argue that he is unhealthy. My ideal candidate would be Warren, but I'd vote for Bernie over every other Democrat. He'd be 82 in in 2022, then 86 if he finished a second term. Sounds old, but RBG is 84 right now, and still going strong. Her body may look frail, but her mind is sharp. I don't like Feinstein, but it's not because she isn't functioning (because she is functioning perfectly fine), it's because I don't like her voting record, her comment that healthcare jobs are more important than healthcare etc etc...Fact is, some people are doing fine, even in their 80s.
Not saying his age wont be a political problem, but a legitimate problem it may not be. People should question his health, but if Bernie runs again, his doctor gives him the thumbs up, and he appears healthy, that should be the end of discussion. That's why people say it's ageism to outright tell him he shouldn't run purely because his age. Because it is. Discrimination is discrimination. Replace every instance of 'old' in this thread with 'black' and it should be obvious. Bernie is doing great right now. The guy is everywhere. Few years down the road, if he decides to run for president, he should release a health report, and personally consider if he is capable. However, if given the greenlight, issues about his age should be treated the same when issues about Barack Obama being black or Hillary Clinton being female would come up. Just because it's okay to flaunt ageism with your friends, family, or on the street, it doesn't mean it actually is okay.
Honestly, some people, even at that age, are fine. Bernie just ran a primary, so it would be hard for someone to argue that he is unhealthy. My ideal candidate would be Warren, but I'd vote for Bernie over every other Democrat. He'd be 82 in in 2022, then 86 if he finished a second term. Sounds old, but RBG is 84 right now, and still going strong. Her body may look frail, but her mind is sharp. I don't like Feinstein, but it's not because she isn't functioning (because she is functioning perfectly fine), it's because I don't like her voting record, her comment that healthcare jobs are more important than healthcare etc etc...Fact is, some people are doing fine, even in their 80s.
Not saying his age wont be a political problem, but a legitimate problem it may not be. People should question his health, but if Bernie runs again, his doctor gives him the thumbs up, and he appears healthy, that should be the end of discussion. That's why people say it's ageism to outright tell him he shouldn't run purely because his age. Because it is. Discrimination is discrimination. Replace every instance of 'old' in this thread with 'black' and it should be obvious. Bernie is doing great right now. The guy is everywhere. Few years down the road, if he decides to run for president, he should release a health report, and personally consider if he is capable. However, if given the greenlight, issues about his age should be treated the same when issues about Barack Obama being black or Hillary Clinton being female would come up. Just because it's okay to flaunt ageism with your friends, family, or on the street, it doesn't mean it actually is okay.
eBay Huckster
Member
pointing out that the only election she's participated in that wasn't in a gerrymandered safe-democratic district was a 20-point loss to a man as charismatic as soggy bread: "talking baseless shit"
meanwhile, continually propping up career losers as the Next Big Thing entirely because they endorsed loser Sanders who lost to loser Clinton is...?
are you even from Ohio?
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Sorry, I missed this earlier.
I don't think Blair did this overnight, and I'm not even sure he did it intentionally, although I think there's a strong case to be made that he did (even stronger for Brown). I'm not saying there was a sudden outcast of the left of the party in 1997; there wasn't and you're quite right Cook and Mowlam continued to represent that wing of the party for some time. The transition was rather slower, and was almost 'bottom-up', in the sense that: Blair controlled the NEC, placed people he liked and approved on it, who then had a tendency to only shortlist candidates that they in turn liked and approved of. Over time, the Cooks and the Mowlams moved on (or in their cases, died), and... there was noone to replace them. Only 'Yvette Coopers', as far as the eye can see - bland salesperson type politicians with not much in the way of redeeming features.
I don't think you need to be of the same class, although I think it gives you a useful shortcut. You're quite right Trump is *definitely* not of their class, and if anything that can be a weakness. However, you're quite right about needing authenticity, and the trouble is: who among the Democrats has that? The frontrunners are all very nice and such, but even the best of them is an Ed Miliband - great policy ideas, probably appeal to the base, but they don't understand. Not really. Can you imagine Gillibrand trying to hold a conversation with an old automobile worker who hasn't seen a wage rise in a decade, is angry and upset, and wants a something to blame and someone to fix it? What's she got to tell them? Nothing. It's radio silence.
There are people who might catch fire, sure, but we'll almost certainly know their names now. Obama wasn't some great unknown in 2008 (I was there!), and there's some strong historical revisionism going on by people probably too young to remember otherwise to say that he was. Obama's comparison is probably someone like Cortez-Masto - generally acknowledged as a rising talent and thought of as potentially presidential, but thought of as a 2024 candidate not a 2020. Same with Obama - as early as 2004 people were saying "hey, it could be him" - but usually in reference to 2012 or 2016.
So that leaves us with a quandry, because the names that we do know, even allowing for candidates some might think too soon, are... unimpressive. Not outright terrible, but there's no barnstormers here.
whyamihere
Banned
lmao
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I'm inclined to agree, but that doesn't solve the problem, which is: who can he reasonably endorse?
elrechazado
Banned
Nobody thinks he's a good national candidate.
And_Gignac
Member
Big Baybee
Member
I think there is going to be a nice big pool of candidates to choose from. I'm looking forward to it.
Warm Machine
Member
Find a prop.
Well, he's being investigated by the FBI which apparently is a prerequisite to the office these days.
But honestly, I don't care. Trump has to go. Bernie could win, die, and we'd still be in good position with his VP.
2016-me would hate me for saying this, but Hillary could run again as far as I'm concerned (which would be dumb, because she'd lose again, but I'd still vote for her)
But honestly, I don't care. Trump has to go. Bernie could win, die, and we'd still be in good position with his VP.
2016-me would hate me for saying this, but Hillary could run again as far as I'm concerned (which would be dumb, because she'd lose again, but I'd still vote for her)
Do you ever get tired of being wrong? I'm just asking.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
This is kind of rich given he was one of the few people on this site to correctly call the Presidential election.
whyamihere
Banned
I see you continue to be a fan of flops.
Carpe Libertatem
Member
Sure, during the election. But The Election Is Over. And has been for months.
The divide is not as big as you think it is, but it's magnified on places like here and Twitter.
People are often talking about Bernie's high approval ratings in the Democratic Party, right? Or that more Bernie supporters voted for Hillary in the general than Hillary supporters voted for Obama in 08? If there was some sharp divide these things wouldn't be happening.
I didn't say he was wrong to want someone younger.
I laughed at the idea of it needing to be under 40. You can't even legally be president until you're 35.
If you think Bernie Sanders is a dumb person, you have a bigger issue.
Broken clocks and all that.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
Keith Ellison if he runs
otherwise, probably someone from the left side of the party even if they really aren't his person, like Brown or Warren. I don't think even think he's that close to Warren but she's clearly one of the closer contenders in his orbit
Anyone else is probably a state representative or city councilor right now. DSA has racked up some wins but their highest ranking elected representative is...Mike Sylvester, who is a state representative from Maine. This sort of thing will take time.
Uh, plenty of people do?
whyamihere
Banned
Bernie could very easily endorse Sherrod Brown, Elizabeth Warren, or even like Kirsten Gillibrand. I'm not really sure there's an issue with him playing kingmaker.
???
uh. Sherrod would be fantastic.
???
uh. Sherrod would be fantastic.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
From all my reading, if I get Sanders to grace his holy touch onto my body, I will be qualified to be POTUS.
brb
brb
Carpe Libertatem
Member
I think he called LePen winning too (or at least coming close), so maybe he just has a thing for far right politicians.
Yeah, I'm sure someone who originally started as a blue dog in a district from upstate NY clearly would not know how to talk to someone like that.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I really like Keith, but his faith gives him a hell of a handicap.
My impression right now is that neither Brown nor Warren are running, though.
Beer Monkey
Member
Virtually none of my friends and neighbors who voted for him in 2016 will ever vote for him again. It was a mistake. We should have voted for Hillary. I'd personally expect him to do worse in Ohio than he did last time, against generic D candidate.
I missed this earlier, but this is literally what she did for years while a Congresswoman. So yes, I can easily imagine it. You might want to learn a bit more about the people you talk shit about.
whyamihere
Banned
Brown and Warren aren't running in the same way that no one is running right now.
Both running would be super easy because they're both assembling teams right now for reelection in 2018 and raising a ton of cash. And it's not like Sherrod needs to go spend all of 2017 at the Fancy Farm Corndog Fest of Penciltin, Iowa. And Warren has the name rec.
Veritigo_X
Member
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Pretty much. She's from a wealthy district mostly consisting of NY retirees and businesspeople.
Charles Alan Ratliff
Member
Bernie fucks.
Carpe Libertatem
Member
Gillibrand would probably have a bigger problem with "progressives" questioning her Blue Dog history of voting to withdraw federal funds from sanctuary cities and against gun control.
But people have generally forgotten about that, which is a sign that she's a pretty good politician.
nailbombxx
Member
Bernie being the Democratic nominee would be pretty much a guarantee that Trump would be re-elected.
whyamihere
Banned
Father_Brain
Banned
As long as I've been following presidential elections, the US political media have been terrible at covering policy and obsessed with the horse race or any whiff of scandal.
One can and should demand better of them, but it's dumb to expect better and that's a pretty weak excuse for Clinton's failure.
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