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[Nocturno999]

SFV has potential to end as the best SF game but:

People are pissed for the lack of a good single player experience (survival mode is a fucking insult) Unlocking basic shit in the game is frustrating and complete shit compared to any fighting game out there.

Lack of basic qol options and technical issues.

Horrendous PR (or lack of it) is hurting the game the most. MVCI PR is even worse.

Capcom haven't addressed this after more than a year and you have a fanbase completely pissed. Also you have another group of players asking for absurd or superfluous crap that gets empowered due to that, adding fuel to the fire.

 

[mbpm1]

Neither of your solutions really fix the problem of throwing a random dp during pressure though, they just make it slightly harder to do it.

Making something hard is not a fix to something being overpowered or imbalanced, in practice, good players are still going to shoot for that DP during pressure and they're still gonna get it.

Making a reversal DP slightly harder isn't going to stop people if it's still relatively risk free, adding risk to doing it, by random DP super punishable to me is more likely to make someone think twice about doing it. And if people are thinking twice then... they're playing Street Fighter

Maybe I'm wrong, but i think if you fuck up a reversal dp like that you stop blocking during pressure by pressing jab instead of dp at a bad moment or s/t and eat shit. Especially if you need to do the motion traditionally.

that's a major executional disincentive. It's happened before, in this game even.

 

[Lulubop]

I think Capcom will address a lot of complaints for S3, they have in the past with (not all obviously. The problem was this was a step back from S1, like AE was. Additionally you have the rocky launch and Capcom's awful community communication. I like it much better than 4 and I think it'll only get better but I get it.

 

[Rickenslacker]

My point still stands. SFV lacks the level of execution required to make high level matches amazing to watch and give the people playing at home something to strive for, even if it's forever out of reach. I'm a Super Platinum player in SFV and what he did isnt at all difficult execution wise. It was character and matchup knowledge. A read, like so much else of SFV.

I feel like this is a can't see the forest for the trees element of fighting game mentality. At least to me, the execution doesn't come off in the spectator side. Even when top players are performing some difficult combos it's so normalized that it's like anything else and still comes down to reads and matchup knowledge. But execution has always been a background element, execution does not make someone a top player, it's down to their adaption, reads, and experience.

I mean shit, put me down in training mode and I'll do the Stunfest 2015 E. Ryu swag combo. But that doesn't mean a damn thing.

 

[Interficium]

My point still stands. SFV lacks the level of execution required to make high level matches amazing to watch and give the people playing at home something to strive for, even if it's forever out of reach. I'm a Super Platinum player in SFV and what he did isnt at all difficult execution wise. It was character and matchup knowledge. A read, like so much else of SFV.

At the pro level execution is such a trivial matter and superficially "cool" to players who aren't casual, but aren't good either. People ITT saying "yeah tokido was good but all he was doing was reads" completely miss the reason why fighting games are ACTUALLY GREAT at high levels, which is the mental game.

 

[Turbanator]

It's not like they haven't done it before, or has everyone already forgotten about this design

That's not even a good version of the costume. It's just her leotard with pants. The proper Streetwise getup is much better:

Though saying costumes like Cammy's default can't even exist in other capacities (alt costumes) is pretty dumb. Make a tournament mode where only defaults can be used or something, but to completely remove those options is pretty overreactionary.

 

[mbpm1]

I feel like this is a can't see the forest for the trees element of fighting game mentality. At least to me, the execution doesn't come off in the spectator side. Even when top players are performing some difficult combos it's so normalized that it's like anything else and still comes down to reads and matchup knowledge. But execution has always been a background element, execution does not make someone a top player, it's down to their adaption, reads, and experience.

I mean shit, put me down in training mode and I'll do the Stunfest 2015 E. Ryu swag combo. But that doesn't mean a damn thing.

i think you're drawing a line that doesn't have to be drawn.

Execution is a part of their ability to remain cool, which is what makes a top player for me. we're not robots, and even the best like Sako don't get max damage combos everytime in other games. i don't see anything wrong with extending executional reward in that direction.

At the pro level execution is such a trivial matter and superficially "cool" to players who aren't casual, but aren't good either. People ITT saying "yeah tokido was good but all he was doing was reads" completely miss the reason why fighting games are ACTUALLY GREAT at high levels, which is the mental game.

This is really a difference of opinion layered by estremes I think. By their logic, the game is nothing more than a piano concerto. But by your logic, fighting games are just speed poker with some flashy anime graphics.

 

[trickyhero]

Yeah as someone that has been off and on paying attention to the fgc since it's release the negativity has been annoying, but it is well earned. The thing is much of it doesn't even have to do with the game.

Capcom simply has the worst PR with this game possible. John D's comments about "haters being left behind" and asking Arturo "what's his agenda" are simply bad moves and are not going to get on anyone's good side. Longer ago Capcom even included a rootkit inside of an update which would phone home and was difficult to remove for people that downloaded it.

This doesn't even get into the many gameplay related issues many people have with the game, personally I think it has an alright core that could become a great game. The real problem with it is that it is the opposite of SF4 and they overcompensated on every aspect that they wanted to change. In SF4 there were many option selects, in SFV there is virtually none and the one that was in wide use the throw OS was removed as soon as possible. This removes quite a bit of depth, option selects are a natural part of fighting games, and some should be allowed. Along with this, people's problem with 1 frame links was legitimate, and so they were removed from SFV with a buffer, a good move in my opinion. Unfourtantly they also removed the amazing combo variety that was present in SF4 and so the combos an intermediate player and an expert are always the same, many do not feel they can display their personality in the game.

I am getting distracted though with this, I just wish that the PC netcode was improved so that the rollback wasn't one sided. Like Mike Ross I have moved onto other games to get my fighting game fix, and that is what I suggest everyone to do, simply play what they want. I try to minimize my complaints about the game, especially since I don't play it anymore.

 

[fernoca]

It's the Top fighting game now and for the foreseeable future in the fighting world. SF just isn't for the casuals anymore. I think Capcom is fine with that SFV Will generate money for years.

So it's either appease to casuals and have your game forgotten in months like injustice2, Or go after the Hardcore and have your game be relevant for years. It's personally my favorite SF ever I haven't cared about Arcade mode since SF2.

There's this misconception that Netherrealm games are forgotten months later, they aren't. Heck, they even continue selling well and you can even see it every time the go in sale at PSN they always make the top 20.

That the competititve communitive is smaller and less vocal than others like SF, of course. Capcom has been building that for decades, while Netherealm barely started in 2011 thanks to WB.

But people continue playing the games for years, just locally.


*****

On topic, I do agree that the hate SFV sometimes falls into just comedy. With people just casually popping by SFV to remind everyone how much they hate it.

In general, they did fixed many things compared to launch. But for some it never mattered.

But this is just the "reality" of the internet. The vocal few that not like something will surely make more noise and won't stop. Heck, this was just normal Mortal Kombat across MK threads pre-2011 release and that was with less people on this forums.

That doesn't mean that the game is perfect now, heck I still have a hard time going back outside the weekly 5k FM, because there's nothing else I can do earn more FM. But I'm also on thr mindset that problems at launch aside, the gsme was fun and was just SF...which is what I wanted.

 

[KillLaCam]

I can see you haven't been here long. Take the edgy angst elsewhere.

If that counts as edgy anywhere that's pretty sad.




But yeah I don't think it's bad. But it's state at launch will always be held against it. Some ppl are never gonna get over that.


The netcode is awful though. I wish theyd just use GGPO. I've never had an issue with it

 

[Interficium]

This doesn't even get into the many gameplay related issues many people have with the game, personally I think it has an alright core that could become a great game. The real problem with it is that it is the opposite of SF4 and they overcompensated on every aspect that they wanted to change. In SF4 there were many option selects, in SFV there is virtually none and the one that was in wide use the throw OS was removed as soon as possible. This removes quite a bit of depth, option selects are a natural part of fighting games, and some should be allowed.

Option selects are braindead and literally the worst part of SFIV, narrowly beating out SRK FADC zero-risk get of jail free card.

 

[Rickenslacker]

i think you're drawing a line that doesn't have to be drawn.

Execution is a part of their ability to remain cool, which is what makes a top player for me. we're not robots, and even the best like Sako don't get max damage combos everytime in other games. i don't see anything wrong with extending executional reward in that direction.

The thing is combos still get dropped. Often. You don't need to make them finicky to do that.

 

[StereoVsn]

They have fixed jack shit about SP content. Survival is terrible. There is still no proper arcade mode with harder progression. No mini-games, etc...

Most people tend to agree. Look at Steam sales progression for the game. Basically there are none.

 

[Turbanator]

The thing is combos still get dropped. Often. You don't need to make them finicky to do that.

Remember when Phenom lost E-League from a simple DP drop?

 

[Papercuts]

I think the SF5 user experience is still shitty and that's ultimately enough to keep me off the train. Things that really start to get at you such as load times, ridiculous maintenance times, poor pool of content outside of purely fighting (though this is more of a personal taste thing).

The core gameplay is alright but not really fun enough for me to endure the rest of the package, and there's plenty of competition out there for it to be pretty easy to drop.

Beyond that, well, first impressions really do matter and it is INCREDIBLY hard to break pre conceived notions, but that's on Capcom for launching it how it was. Their PR since has not been nearly as strong as it should have been, and the communication is still pretty poor from them in general.

 

[mbpm1]

The thing is combos still get dropped. Often. You don't need to make them finicky to do that.

Sure, but there's absolutely no tension in them being dropped. If you saw someone go for a hard combo before, you knew what that meant for the player and their need to perform.

here, the combos are so easy that most of the time if someone drops it there's no tension, it's just kinda sad. And they don't happen that often unless you play some characters like Karin, Chun, or attempt a tricky CA juggle with Necalli for 150,000 dollars..

 

[Codeblue]

There is nobody with less trustworthy opinions about SFV than an SFIV pro who is no longer relevant.

The amount of absurd fighting game related posts I've read over the past few days is getting to be too much.

Infiltration is an irrelevant SFIV pro? Come on.

Fchamp talks more trash about SFV than anyone else and he was just in top 8. Is he an irrelevant Marvel player?

 

[Rickenslacker]

Sure, but there's absolutely no tension in them being dropped. If you saw someone go for a hard combo before, you knew what that meant for the player and their need to perform.

here, the combos are so easy that most of the time if someone drops it there's no tension, it's just kinda sad. And they don't happen that often unless you play some characters like Karin, Chun, or attempt a tricky CA juggle with Necalli for 150,000 dollars..

There's definitely tension in them being dropped. Things are still on the line for the people playing, they're still opening themselves up, a mess up is a mess up.

 

[Nemesis121]

THIS FUCKING SHIT STILL EXIST
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSB_JlJK_Ks
Fix your game CAPCOM...

 

[Jimrpg]

This is the problem with reviews in general and a lot of people don't want to back down from what they said originally.

It's the same thing that's happened with many other games like Driveclub, butchered at launch because the game's online mode was broken (though it was fine for reviewers). As it was broken online mode and all, the single player was more than fine enough for me to give it a 9/10 and many people that actually played the single player felt the same. But there was always a bunch of people who wanted to tear a game down. And they got what they wished for, evolution studios isn't around anymore. Online was fixed, content added.

Anyway back to SFV, it was a borked launch, but the game looked amazing at this years Evo. Imagine if SFV was released in Early Access - would there be as much hate as it got?

 

[mbpm1]

Option selects are braindead and literally the worst part of SFIV, narrowly beating out SRK FADC zero-risk get of jail free card.

Really? the OSes were the worst thing? Not the shitty damage except for some characters? Not the fact that some characters had 20 defensive options and others had about 3? Not finicky hitboxes or zero sum gameplay where neither character wants to move?

Odd

 

[Onny]

Let's not forget that in SFV all DLC characters are, potentially, free. This is not something offered by any other major franchise - not ij2, not Tekken, not Xrd.

And the complaint about "lack of single player content" is absurd. If you buy the base game today you get:
"Shadow Falls" Story mode (normal + EX)
16 x character stories (fwiw)
20 combo trials for all 16 base characters
Character demonstrations for all 16 base characters

 

[Holy Order Sol]

Neither of your solutions really fix the problem of throwing a random dp during pressure though, they just make it slightly harder to do it.

If you're chaining lows and the opponent tries to do something that actually requires a forward input (as in strictly forward, not down forward) the opponent should get hit even while in blockstun due to the fact they're standing. The whole point is to make people stand as part of the motion. The DP attempt gets blown up by chained lows 100% of the time when it works like that.

The tightening the window part is because strict links were never the issue with SFIV and weren't the thing that needed fixing. What needed to be done was to require a level of precision from the defender much more in line with what the attacker was doing. There would be no issues with a DP blowing up pressure in such conditions.

Instead you got a long-ass buffer and precision is required from neither side. Capcom heard the complaint and addressed it the worst way they could.

 

[tribal24]

This is the problem with reviews in general and a lot of people don't want to back down from what they said originally.

It's the same thing that's happened with many other games like Driveclub, butchered at launch because the game's online mode was broken (though it was fine for reviewers). As it was broken online mode and all, the single player was more than fine enough for me to give it a 9/10 and many people that actually played the single player felt the same. But there was always a bunch of people who wanted to tear a game down. And they got what they wished for, evolution studios isn't around anymore. Online was fixed, content added.

Anyway back to SFV, it was a borked launch, but the game looked amazing at this years Evo. Imagine if SFV was released in Early Access - would there be as much hate as it got?

yup and thats what going to happen to MVCI content added and everything fixed down the line, watch all the negativity still all those agendas go into work and then people wonder why we don't get games like that anymore.

 

[mbpm1]

There's definitely tension in them being dropped. Things are still on the line for the people playing, they're still opening themselves up, a mess up is a mess up.

There's no reason for tension. Combos are easy enough that you could do them half-drunk. They're not impressive to do, and they're even less impressive to drop.

They don't mean anything.

 

[Dartastic]

This is really a difference of opinion layered by estremes I think. By their logic, the game is nothing more than a piano concerto. But by your logic, fighting games are just speed poker with some flashy anime graphics.

Come on man. I'm interrupting my Overwatch game just to respond to this terrible comment. At least compare the same things man. You're comparing music and sports. They're inherently different. Maybe like, by their logic it's a piano concerto vs. rock music?

 

[dommynick]

I feel like even having to do it once is pretty goofy and already too much. Why not just make two backdashes take the same amount of time? What's the point of doing one backdash without cancelling? It's bad design to not normalize it

Because people would just backdash forever after getting a hit in on infinite stages. You're just finding an excuse to blame as the reason you do poorly in Tekken. Just like sidesteps and other movement in Tekken, backdash isn't some free get of jail card to use without timing or to be done randomly, it's supposed to be a conscious action to create a favorable situation. If you're doing a single backdash this way, you will make moves whiff and be able to punish. Don't worry about Korean Backdash and other advanced techniques, learn your fundamentals. Listen to JDCR.

 

[Turbanator]

This is the problem with reviews in general and a lot of people don't want to back down from what they said originally.

It's the same thing that's happened with many other games like Driveclub, butchered at launch because the game's online mode was broken (though it was fine for reviewers). As it was broken online mode and all, the single player was more than fine enough for me to give it a 9/10 and many people that actually played the single player felt the same. But there was always a bunch of people who wanted to tear a game down. And they got what they wished for, evolution studios isn't around anymore. Online was fixed, content added.

Anyway back to SFV, it was a borked launch, but the game looked amazing at this years Evo. Imagine if SFV was released in Early Access - would there be as much hate as it got?

That's why we need a SSFV now more than ever. Not only does Capcom get a second chance to market the game, but it gets new reviews.

 

[trickyhero]

THIS FUCKING SHIT STILL EXIST
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSB_JlJK_Ks
Fix your game CAPCOM...

This is easily my biggest problem as a PC player, it's literally unplayable online.

 

[Codeblue]

Let's not forget that in SFV all DLC characters are, potentially, free. This is not something offered by any other major franchise - not ij2, not Tekken, not Xrd.

And the complaint about "lack of single player content" is absurd. If you buy the base game today you get:
"Shadow Falls" Story mode (normal + EX)
16 x character stories (fwiw)
20 combo trials for all 16 base characters
Character demonstrations for all 16 base characters

I honestly don't know why anyone brings up single player content anymore. It feels like everyone that cared about a proper arcade mode set sail a while ago. I don't feel like it's relevant to SFV's quality as a fighting game.

 

[mbpm1]

Come on man. I'm interrupting my Overwatch game just to respond to this terrible comment. At least compare the same things man. You're comparing music and sports. They're inherently different. Maybe like, by their logic it's a piano concerto vs. rock music?

I'm not comparing music lol. I'm comparing what both of you guys seem to think fighting games are.

And what I'm saying is both of your opinions are wrong.

Clear enough?

 

[Rickenslacker]

There's no reason for tension. Combos are easy enough that you could do them half-drunk. They're not impressive to do, and they're even less impressive to drop.

They don't mean anything.

I mean, you can say that, but the best players in the world still aren't doing them 100%. If that's your gauge for unimpressive, alright, sure -- I just don't think it actually holds true in practice.

 

[Robot Pants]

I just don't like how the game plays. It's too slow.
None of the characters interest me and I know it's hugely knitpicky but I cannot stand the sound effect for blocking.

 

[TheTylerRob]

I just don't like how the game plays. It's too slow.
None of the characters interest me and I know it's hugely knitpicky but I cannot stand the sound effect for blocking.

All the sound design is bad, Tekken 7 sounds so much better by comparison.

 

[kirblar]

Combos were dropped all over the place at EVO!

All the sound design is bad, Tekken 7 sounds so much better by comparison.

This is actually something I agree with - I assumed the "block" sounds were placeholders and was shocked when they made it to live. Hopefully SSFV updates them like SSF4 updated SF4's.

 

[watdaeff4]

For people who want to play mainly SP. it's absolutely a bad game.

I'm not good at the game and spent a ton of time online to feel satisfied with the game, but to ignore the huge problems with this game is just silliness.

 

[ec0ec0]

The amount of absurd fighting game related posts I've read over the past few days is getting to be too much.

Infiltration is an irrelevant SFIV pro? Come on.

Fchamp talks more trash about SFV than anyone else and he was just in top 8. Is he an irrelevant Marvel player?

seriously.

and Fchamp was also extremely close to eliminating tokido.

 

[Renekton]

This is actually something I agree with - I assumed the "block" sounds were placeholders and was shocked when they made it to live. Hopefully SSFV updates them like SSF4 updated SF4's.

Hold up.

T7 has great sound design but the hollow tube block sound isn't better than SFV's imo.

 

[LincolnTunnel]

I think the hate for SFV is super over blown. Same with the hate for MvCI. Most of it is more of a systemic issue of internet culture though. People put so much god damn effort into hating shit, and so many people are obsessed with whatever they like having to somehow "beat" whatever they don't like. I really just don't get it. People can't even have any real conversation about it without it just devolving into one side calling people shills and the other side calling people haters.

This isn't just about SFV, though it comes up so often with this game. If you like something, that's great! It doesn't mean people pointing out flaws are mindlessly hating on it. If you dislike it, that's great too! It doesn't mean anyone pointing out all the things they like about it are shills for the company or lying to themselves. The amount of name calling, hyperbole, and pointless back and forths make it really difficult to engage in this hobby sometimes, and that makes me kinda sad.

 

[FantasticMrFoxdie]

The link in the OP sound is way off sync, atleast in the begining

a better link: https://youtu.be/ec8yHxCT_tk

Watching now! I need to catch up.

 

[Toxi]

In SF4 there were many option selects, in SFV there is virtually none and the one that was in wide use the throw OS was removed as soon as possible. This removes quite a bit of depth, option selects are a natural part of fighting games, and some should be allowed.

How does not having option selects remove depth? This is a sincere question, not rhetorical.

 

[Holy Order Sol]

I feel like this is a can't see the forest for the trees element of fighting game mentality. At least to me, the execution doesn't come off in the spectator side. Even when top players are performing some difficult combos it's so normalized that it's like anything else and still comes down to reads and matchup knowledge. But execution has always been a background element, execution does not make someone a top player, it's down to their adaption, reads, and experience.

There shouldn't be any single of things that is a background element in the same way that none should be considered "the real game that actually matters" or "the hard part". Make all the parts hard yet essential and put all the skills a player can have to the test at all times. Games that are great do that even when they are otherwise flawed.

 

[remz]

Because people would just backdash forever after getting a hit in on infinite stages.

Can someone not just do that with a KBD? I guess only people who have mastered the KBD can be a shithead on infinite stage, lol. I don't think the solution to something being abusable should be (make it hard to do) because someone is going to prac

You're just finding an excuse to blame as the reason you do poorly in Tekken. Just like sidesteps and other movement in Tekken, backdash isn't some free get of jail card to use without timing or to be done randomly, it's supposed to be a conscious action to create a favorable situation.

Maybe I am looking for an excuse, but I would like to be able to make that conscious decision without the disproportionately difficult input. I think a similar-ish input that isn't anywhere near as bad is IAD in GG, which serves a specific purpose, isn't super hard and is actually taught to you in game as of Rev.

You're pointing to JDCR there and he's only backing me up. He says you should KBD to whiff punish. He's not saying it's unimportant at all.

I think it further bothers me because "just blocking" in tekken often puts you in high/low mixup frame trap hell with moves being unclear on whether you can punish them, and other moves trapping you crouching, etc. As a new player it's extremely hard for me to know when I can actually punish after blocking, but it's extremely obvious to me when I can whiff punish someone, which is why backdashing and maintining spacing being so hard is frustrating to me.

I would prefer the challenge to be (predicting when to backdash) rather than (being able to input 44154141 really fast)

Hold up.

T7 has great sound design but the hollow tube block sound isn't better than SFV's imo.

It's kinda like an exercise ball bouncing in an empty gym

 

[CD'S BAR]

It's a very fun game and I played the shit out of it for months, however...

the load times suck, the load times suck, and the load times suck.

 

[petran79]

Thing is,SFIV held a monopoly in 2.5d fighters for years. Its only rival was the semi-decent Battle Fantasia and the obtuse for its era Blazblue CT. It couldnt hold a candle to sprite based fighters. There was Smash too but Smash fans dont care about non-Nintendo games.
It only surpassed those games in presentation and gfx fidelity. MvC3 too but that game had other issues and bad netplay.

Because it was SF AND 3D, one more reason to get more popular. But when MK, Guilty Gear and KOF transitioned to 3d graphics and Blazblue got better with each installment, it became apparent that something was lacking in Capcom's part. After they screwed with SFxTekken especially. As if they lack a general vision for the series.

I do not want to touch the game at all. That DLC model kills it. MvC:I will probably face the same reception.

 

[hatchx]

I'm just waiting for Super SFV. I won't get nickel and dimes on DLC for what I've heard is a barebones game.

 

[Brandon F]

Still can't get past the terrible frontend menu and Ken's mug.

Might be the greatest fighter ever, but my superficial side won't have any of it.

 

[Dartastic]

I think the hate for SFV is super over blown. Same with the hate for MvCI. Most of it is more of a systemic issue of internet culture though. People put so much god damn effort into hating shit, and so many people are obsessed with whatever they like having to somehow "beat" whatever they don't like. I really just don't get it. People can't even have any real conversation about it without it just devolving into one side calling people shills and the other side calling people haters.

This isn't just about SFV, though it comes up so often with this game. If you like something, that's great! It doesn't mean people pointing out flaws are mindlessly hating on it. If you dislike it, that's great too! It doesn't mean anyone pointing out all the things they like about it are shills for the company or lying to themselves. The amount of name calling, hyperbole, and pointless back and forths make it really difficult to engage in this hobby sometimes, and that makes me kinda sad.

.

RE: bold, I'm sorry you feel this way.

 

[AstroNut325]

A little OT: Any recent sales on this game? Preferably digital on PS4?

 

[trickyhero]

How does not having option selects remove depth? This is a legitimate question, not rhetorical.

Ya know I actually am not much of a fan of option selects actually. I just think having more and more things to learn is something interesting and fun. Removing Option Selects is actually alright in my eyes honestly. Simple option selects can really change the game though, for example in Guilty Gear an option select is shown in the tutorial. The player can press another button at the same time as an throw input (forward heavy slash) and if they don't get the throw the normal will come out instead. Now the other button that they press will depend on which normal they will want to potentially whiff or hit with. That all depends on the matchup and situation.

I'm kind of a noob when it comes to fighting games, but it's something that I just find fun to find and try out. Absurdly powerful option selects should be removed but some can be cool in my opinion.