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[shinra-bansho]

And I'm not sure what your point is in talking about the past when we are talking about now.

Plus you speak as if you can't do without meat if you don't take supplements. So I'll provide my own experience as an example. I was a vegetarian until the age of 22, I grew up in India and I never took supplements ever (I didn't even know what they were u til I came to the west at the age of 20). My family is still vegetarian and at no point did we felt it was necessary to eat meat because eating vegetarian food wasn't enough, we haven't had any illness in our family ever, or any defeciency, and we are all physically well tall and strong.

Your view on this matter would be limited due to your own inability to see past it because of the environment around you. You grew up in an environment where it wasn't normal to be a vegetarian...obviously you're going to think something that you never experienced as a worse option than what is considered normal in your environment. If it really was necessary for my body to eat meat or take supplements in case I didn't then surely I'd have experienced some for of issues while growing up..don't you think?

I assumed we were talking about veganism. Although even vegetarians are advised to take certain supplements.

It's a sustainable diet without supplements, and has been for centuries when supplements weren't a thing. B12 is harder to get, supplements make it easier, but find me one source that say supplements are necessary

I mean it's incredibly easy to find literature rather than just anecdotes reporting reduced bone density in vegans or B12 deficiency prevalence and effects in vegetarians and vegans.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23356638
I'm sure that some people do get by with minimal effects of such deficiency. But implication that the human digestive system has developed to provide adequate nutrition in the absence of some meat and meat product is false edit: without some sort of artificial process of ingestion.

Humans are not herbivores, quite simply put. This shouldn't be in dispute.

If one has chosen such a diet more power to them. This is not judgment or advocacy. It's statement of biology.

 

[Quixzlizx]

It's a fucking nasty, callous thing to do.

 

[Nostremitus]

In my experience doing it without supplements gets very expensive, but yes, it's doable.



Loads of plants have B12. Not much of it, and not all plants, but it's totally doable. And ignoring meat/poultry/fish, all dairy products and eggs have B12. Meat isn't the only thing that has B12 in it.

What am I reading?

Milk and eggs are animal products, milk goes right along with meat; eggs with poultry.

There are not loads of plants with B12.

To quote The Vegan Society:

The only reliable vegan sources of B12 are foods fortified with B12 (including some plant milks, some soy products and some breakfast cereals) and B12 supplements.

 

[SomTervo]

Only because grains are having supplements added through fortification.

Not in my experience? It just needs lots of stuff like avocado and root veg (and i mean a LOT).

But it's besides the point anyway. If food is fortified that's a good thing and makes it easier to be vegan.

Milk and eggs are animal products, milk goes right along with meat; eggs with poultry.

There are not loads of plants with B12.

To quote The Vegan Society:

I guess "reliable" is the operative word, yeah.

 

[Greddleok]

The better example is lab-grown steaks and cuts that take very few resources to make, taste exactly the same or better, and don't involve killing at all.

They practically exist already.

And as a vegan i am 100% cool with eating that synthesised meat.

As a meat eater, I can't wait for lab synthesised steaks. No morality, just delicious meat.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Animals do not produce B12. If we're gonna take this any further, you need to read up on it first.

You are a primate meaning you would either be getting your B12 from eating your feces or eating creatures. I think we all know the path humanity chose

http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/animal

 

[Inferno313]

As a meat eater, I can't wait for lab synthesised steaks. No morality, just delicious meat.

As a vegan who used to love the taste of meat, I'm excited for those as well.

 

[Night Hunter]

Yep, 1060 Wien oida.

1090 ;p

 

[SomTervo]

Missing my point.
If I buy meat, its often discounted hours before the supermarket closes. That shit is going to waste.
And why should someone who has to pinch pennies for every meal care about ethics? Are you going to bash people in third-world countries with this same standard?

Regardless, are there stats for vegan being a cheaper lifestyle? The stats someone posted earlier about vegans being better educated reeks of privileged upbringing to me.

Ah, right, so like "freeganism"? Only eating meat if it's like reduced or about to be binned. I get that.

Stats re veganism being cheaper are almost impossible to get - it varies so much on where you live and your background/living situation. Indeed, I'd never expect people in third world countries to be forced to go vegan - the entire problem stems from over eating of meat and dairy in the developed world. WE are the problem. (And funnily enough third world countries often eat near-vegan or all vegetarian anyway because animals are precious.)

Of course it's not a one size fits all thing.I live in an awesome city with several vegan markets, loads of cheap veg sources and tons of great vegan restaurants. But plenty of people live in rural areas or under developed towns where the same lifestyle just doesn't work.

I also know people who went vegan for a couple of months but literally got sick due to various dietary issues. I'd never force it on them and always concede that point.

But with development and a change in culture it's absolutely possible. My living costs plummeted when i went vegan - the caveat being that i live in a very vegan-friendly city.

My gf's working on a program about obesity and said there was a recent large scale study that found increasing plant foods intake while drastically reducing (but not completely removing) meat and dairy was the cheapest life style. (Waiting for her to send me the link...)

 

[nOoblet16]

Because the past shaped our current situation.

Question: if we stopped all comsumption of meat in the entire world right now would we be able to feed the entirety of the human race properly? You talk about his view being limited while having a privileged view yourself as someone that can freely choose what you get to eat.

You are making a straw man argument. I wasn't talking about whether we should eat meat or not, that's up to people and it's why I made it clear hat I eat meat myself despite growing up a vegetarian. I was talking purely about how our bodies don't "need meat", what our bodies need is protein and meat just happen to be an easy to come across source in today's environment.


To answer you question, obviously we won't able to. It's because there is no infrastructure to support it and it's not really possible to change that infrastructure to something completely different now.

And that's what my point is, we don't eat meat because "our bodies need it". We eat meat because there is no other viable alternative and the reason for not having a viable alternative is because of he way he infrastructure is set up...not because the alternatives lack nutrition. And it's just not possible to change that infrastructure now. There'll be a change when synthetic meat becomes prevalent but I'll still be able to order a beef burger or a steak if I want to. Hence, it'll minor change compared to having the world shift to vegan/vegetarianism.

 

[FLUXCapacitor]

On the subject of cost effectiveness of being vegetarian/vegan, it is much cheaper of a diet. I just don't get where people think it somehow costs more or only for the upper class.

A Vegetarian Diet Can Save You Roughly $750 A Year: Study

Being vegan now for over 6 months and my grocery bill has dropped significantly.

 

[Gravy Boat]

On the subject of cost effectiveness of being vegetarian/vegan, it is much cheaper of a diet. I just don't get where people think it somehow costs more or only for the upper class.

A Vegetarian Diet Can Save You Roughly $750 A Year: Study

Being vegan now for over 6 months and my grocery bill has dropped significantly.

If you don't particularly enjoy vegetables then you'd need to buy meat supplements, which at least in my experience, tend to cost more than actual meat.

 

[SomTervo]

On the subject of cost effectiveness of being vegetarian/vegan, it is much cheaper of a diet. I just don't get where people think it somehow costs more or only for the upper class.

A Vegetarian Diet Can Save You Roughly $750 A Year: Study

Being vegan now for over 6 months and my grocery bill has dropped significantly.

Nice. Vegan probably saves you nowhere near as much though unfortunately.

Milk is mad subsidised and absurdly competetive.

 

[Icanplaythat]

In order to prevent yourself from becoming the thing you hate, you must avoid becoming butthurt when a person(s) becomes butthurt over trival matters. As long as that person(s) being butthurt, and their actions in response to being butthurt, does not infringe upon your right to exist and thrive.

 

[Greddleok]

On the subject of cost effectiveness of being vegetarian/vegan, it is much cheaper of a diet. I just don't get where people think it somehow costs more or only for the upper class.

A Vegetarian Diet Can Save You Roughly $750 A Year: Study

Being vegan now for over 6 months and my grocery bill has dropped significantly.

I was vegetarian throughout college for this exact reason. My house mates would spend upwards of £50-70 a week on food, while I came home with bags of stuff for only £20-30. Meant way more money for booze.

Veganism isn't that much cheaper than meat eating though. Too much little shit to worry about.

 

[Boney]

If anything, meat production (specifically beef) is perilous for human survival. Livestock produce from 20% to 50% of all greenhouse gas emissions. Proccessed meat is classified as Group 1 carcinogen by the WHO. Regular meat, eggs and milk consumption are also heavily linked to cancer and diabetes.

I recommend the book "What the Health" which covers in depth the Agro business lobbying on health reports.

I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't eat meat, but that it's probably a good idea to be a bit more conscious d try to limit consumption.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I get that you think you're really cool and elevated and all that, but instead of purposely avoiding answering me, could you stop being an ass and just tell me why it's so insane that if I have anyone over with diet restrictions, I cook a mal that everyone can eat?

It's not about what you would do. It's about you apparently expecting or wishing everyone did the same thing just so 1 vegan person is appeased, which is absurd.

I've had a vegan come over for a BBQ. Made some delicious vegan recipes for her, even made sure the vegan food wasn't on the part of the grill where meat had been. She tossed it. Didn't say anything, just threw it in the trash and ate some salad. After I confronted her, she said she didn't like it (the food was untouched). I told I thought it was very ride to just dismiss food I made especially for her, and wasteful to toss it in the trash, instead of offering it to other guests. She just shrugged and turned around. Never invited her again, for anything.

What a piece of shit. Not only it's rude as fuck, but wasting food on purpose just pisses me off.

It certainly doesn't help the perception when some of them equate eating meat with basically being alt-righters.

Seriously.

As a non-vegan who loves meat, I die of fucking second hand embarrassment whenever non-vegans try to piss vegans off by yelling about how delicious bacon is or whatever. I get that you think you're funny, but you're not. You're not the first to tell that overdone vegan joke. They've heard it before. Many times. At least come up with something new. Goddamn.

Who are you even talking to? I mean yeah the whole Maddox "hurr I'm going to eat 3 animals for the 0 you eat" or whatever is dumb as fuck, but I haven't seen much of that ITT. I have seen, however, comparisons between meat eaters and racists/sexists...

Spoiler

Bacon isn't even that good.

Now those are fighting words

What the fuck are you on about?

You do realise that the cheapest food there is actually vegetables?

I fucking wish. Over here fresh vegetables are ridiculously overpriced (saw a cauliflower cost $9.99 CAD one time) and I have to buy them on sale for them to be affordable.

 

[SomTervo]

If you don't particularly enjoy vegetables then you'd need to buy meat supplements, which at least in my experience, tend to cost more than actual meat.

No way. Been vegan for almost a year and the meat substitutes are way cheaper. Saved me so much money.

Also "enjoy" doesn't really come into it. I fucking love meat and cheese and would eat them all the time if it wasn't irresponsible af supporting this industry.

If anything, meat production (specifically beef) is perilous for human survival. Livestock produce from 20% to 50% of all greenhouse gas emissions. Proccessed meat is classified as Group 1 carcinogen by the WHO. Regular meat, eggs and milk consumption are also heavily linked to cancer and diabetes.

I recommend the book "What the Health" which covers in depth the Agro business lobbying on health reports.

I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't eat meat, but that it's probably a good idea to be a bit more conscious d try to limit consumption.

Precisely.

 

[Inferno313]

No way. Been vegan for almost a year and the meat substitutes are way cheaper. Saved me so much money.

Also "enjoy" doesn't really come into it. I fucking love meat and cheese and would eat them all the time if it wasn't irresponsible af supporting this industry.

Yeah, I feel like there's a lot of folks that thinks vegetarians and vegans just don't like meat and that's not the case at all. As a kid, meat, cheese, and milk were literally my favorite things to eat. I'd order a burger "just meat and cheese".

 

[FRS1987]

Your bro-in-law is being a dick.

Sounds like you were respecting his preferences, but he felt the need to shame you for yours.

That's what I got out of it and that was being disrespectful, even without trying to be. Just imagine if it were something else that he didn't agree with, will he just avoid it in a way that comes off as condescending?

 

[Mimir]

I assumed we were talking about veganism. Although even vegetarians are advised to take certain supplements.I mean it's incredibly easy to find literature rather than just anecdotes reporting reduced bone density in vegans or B12 deficiency prevalence and effects in vegetarians and vegans.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23356638
I'm sure that some people do get by with minimal effects of such deficiency. But implication that the human digestive system has developed to provide adequate nutrition in the absence of some meat and meat product is false. Humans are not herbivores, quite simply put. This shouldn't be in dispute.

If one has chosen such a diet more power to them. This is not judgment or advocacy. It's statement of biology.

B-12 deficiency isn't just a problem for vegans.

More than 8% of these generally healthy adults had plasma vitamin B-12 concentrations <148 pmol/L; 16% had concentrations <185 pmol/L and 39% had concentrations <258 pmol/L. Because persons with cobalamin concentrations as high as 258 pmol/L have been shown to be at some risk for neurologic signs and symptoms of vitamin B-12 deficiency and for hyperhomocysteinemia (1–4, 6), these prevalences raise concerns about the need for improved diagnosis and treatment of vitamin B-12 deficiency in the general adult population.

Most people should be supplementing B-12 to be on the safe side, and everyone over 50 should be.

 

[Ratrat]

Ah, right, so like "freeganism"? Only eating meat if it's like reduced or about to be binned. I get that.

Stats re veganism being cheaper are almost impossible to get - it varies so much on where you live and your background/living situation. Indeed, I'd never expect people in third world countries to be forced to go vegan - the entire problem stems from over eating of meat and dairy in the developed world. WE are the problem. (And funnily enough third world countries often eat near-vegan or all vegetarian anyway because animals are precious.)

Of course it's not a one size fits all thing.I live in an awesome city with several vegan markets, loads of cheap veg sources and tons of great vegan restaurants. But plenty of people live in rural areas or under developed towns where the same lifestyle just doesn't work.

I also know people who went vegan for a couple of months but literally got sick due to various dietary issues. I'd never force it on them and always concede that point.

But with development and a change in culture it's absolutely possible. My living costs plummeted when i went vegan - the caveat being that i live in a very vegan-friendly city.

My gf's working on a program about obesity and said there was a recent large scale study that found increasing plant foods intake while drastically reducing (but not completely removing) meat and dairy was the cheapest life style. (Waiting for her to send me the link...)

Thats all fine. As stated before, I dont eat much meat to begin with(not counting the endless list of products containing meat, from dressing to potato chips).
Still, as an underweight adult male, I need a certain amount of calories per meal, and the cheapest option is not strictly vegan.
In the end, its anecdotal. Its been the case for me and those I've known, but apparntly not for others.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

Well, that depends entirely on one thing: are humans more valuable than animals?

If you find humans more valuable than animals, that's a dumb comparison. If you find human lives and animal lives equivalent, it's perfectly valid.

I've spent years reading about animal ethics and have yet to find a consistent argument to put human lives above animal lives - one based in rationality, at least. If you believe in god and/or a soul, you would definitely rank humans higher, but those open another can of worms.

You could set up a certain set of criteria for what should be considered intelligent life

1. Are they capable of theory of mind?

2. Do they have capacity to learn some form of language?

3. Do specific populations form their own customs, akin to a culture?

I value species for which you can say to all these questions higher than others. So I wouldn't eat humans or chimpanzees, but would eat fish

 

[FLUXCapacitor]

I was vegetarian throughout college for this exact reason. My house mates would spend upwards of £50-70 a week on food, while I came home with bags of stuff for only £20-30. Meant way more money for booze.

Veganism isn't that much cheaper than meat eating though. Too much little shit to worry about.

I don't know. I would argue being vegan is just as cost effective as vegetarian, at least from my experience. Plant based milk and cheeses don't cost much more than diary, and also aren't necessary. Plus it takes two seconds to look at a nutrition label which at the bottom of the ingredients all say things like "Contains: Milk, Eggs, Soy, etc"

I might spend $15 more than a vegetarian a month. I still save much more than I ever did eating meat.

 

[Izuna]

This whole discussion likening being non-vegan to stuff like sexism reminded me of this gem:

Terrible equivalence.

What? lol

 

[Nostremitus]

Not in my experience? It just needs lots of stuff like avocado and root veg (and i mean a LOT).

But it's besides the point anyway. If food is fortified that's a good thing and makes it easier to be vegan.



I guess "reliable" is the operative word, yeah.

You responded to me regarding the viability of being vegan in the wild without modern advances. Reliability is important. Humanity didn't evolve to thrive as vegan.

 

[the-pi-guy]

Are you seriously comparing the biome and trophic level of Yellowstone to that of humans factory farming meat? Wow....

It might be hard to tell on the internet, but I was kidding. Wow...

 

[typist]

Every pound of beef you eat is equivalent to 441 gallons of water. If you didn't eat beef then that water could keep a dying child alive for a long time. Not saying that leaving the table is the right way to respond but it's totally understandable. The water consumption of the meat industry is not sustainable, it's obscene how much they waste.

 

[AJLma]

Vegan B12 deficiency is a myth. You only need a very tiny amount of it very infrequently because your body recycles it. Only a real issue in old people and people with digestive disorders.

 

[weremichael]

It might be hard to tell on the internet, but I was kidding. Wow...

It definitely was difficult for me to decode your humor. I feel better now that I know you were kidding. I teach high school and know trophic levels and cascade are taught in high school biology. I'm freaked out when I see people not understand what we, supposedly, require to graduate with a high school diploma. Get where I'm coming from?

 

[HawksWinStanley]

I see this thread is still the same shit show from when I left it last night.

Still no update from OP? Or did he just bail after seeing the monster he created?

 

[captive]

What? lol

seriously some shit in this thread is mind boggling.

Every pound of beef you eat is equivalent to 441 gallons of water.

receipts

If you didn't eat beef then that water could keep a dying child alive for a long time. Not saying that leaving the table is the right way to respond but it's totally understandable. The water consumption of the meat industry is not sustainable, it's obscene how much they waste.

not exactly. its not like the land used for ranches would suddenly all be turned into rain catchers and that water shipped elsewhere.

 

[Gattsu25]

This whole discussion likening being non-vegan to stuff like sexism reminded me of this gem:

Terrible equivalence.

There's almost no way that image was made by a vegan, though. You're likely posting bullshit from people taking the piss on vegans as if it is a vegan argument. Yes, people do this stuff to groups they don't like.

That's like posting this without recognizing it for the satire that it is: http://www.harkavagrant.com/?id=341

Only difference is, what I posted is obvious enough in its satire that you are in on the joke whereas what you posted is not presented in a humourous way and is intended to mislead folks into believing those are the actual views of vegans.

 

[Boney]

I presume meat consumption will start a downwards trend similar to tobacco and cigarettes. There needs to be a cultural shift directed by conscious health concerns. And we're not at that point quite yet.

 

[Contica]

It's not about what you would do. It's about you apparently expecting or wishing everyone did the same thing just so 1 vegan person is appeased, which is absurd.

Then be clear about what you're talking about. Had you payed any attention you'd know full fell I don't expect anything at all. I would -like- for everyone at a dinner to enjoy the same meal, but that's an entirely different thing.

You are a primate meaning you would either be getting your B12 from eating your feces or eating creatures. I think we all know the path humanity chose

http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/animal

Why do you keep posting this link?

The site you link to has no actual data on it. Just a basic "here's what some animals eat". Good if you want a base knowledge about that, but if you want to know more about b12 and what it is, that link is completely useless.

My whole point is that no animal produces it's own b12. B12 is made by a microbe. That microbe lives in soil and water. When an animal eats another creature for b12, that creature got the b12 from the microbe. B12 deficiency is spreading, a big reason for that is the way we farm. Soil is loosing it's nutritional value. Microbes like the ones producing B12 find no suitable place to love, and thus we end up with not enough b12. So then both animal and human need supplements. If you think people who eat meat have no risk of b12 deficiency, think again.

 

[Westbahnhof]

There's almost no way that image was made by a vegan, though. You're likely posting bullshit from people taking the piss on vegans as if it is a vegan argument. Yes, people do this stuff to groups they don't like.

That's like posting this without recognizing it for the satire that it is: http://www.harkavagrant.com/?id=341

Only difference is, what I posted is obvious enough in its satire that you are in on the joke whereas what you posted is not presented in a humourous way and is intended to mislead folks into believing those are the actual views of vegans.

I've seen this very image posted unironically by a vegan FB group, a vegan person I knew shared it. Sorry.

 

[Wereroku]

Every pound of beef you eat is equivalent to 441 gallons of water. If you didn't eat beef then that water could keep a dying child alive for a long time. Not saying that leaving the table is the right way to respond but it's totally understandable. The water consumption of the meat industry is not sustainable, it's obscene how much they waste.

The family at the table were eating fish not beef. I basically just eat chicken and eggs how much am I contributing to that number?

 

[Gattsu25]

I've seen this very image posted unironically by a vegan FB group, a vegan person I knew shared it. Sorry.

I trust you.

 

[typist]

receipts

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=h...9j69i57j0l4.7540j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

I'm aware there's other numbers you can find too. The numbers change depending on farming practises and such. It's irrelevant. A big animal like a cow would logically consume enough water each day to keep a person alive each day. Each day we keep cows alive with water, we signify our disinterest in keeping people alive with water

not exactly. its not like the land used for ranches would suddenly all be turned into rain catchers and that water shipped elsewhere.

The land could be used to build homes, catch rain, build infrastructure or do a variety of useful things. Smart investments will pay off. The cost of transporting the saved resources will also pay off. Yeah, it takes some effort to get water to people who need it. So what. People need water, if we don't get people the water they need then we're no better than the statesmen in Flint Michigan

The family at the table were eating fish not beef. I basically just eat chicken and eggs how much am I contributing to that number?

Ah right my bad, dunno enough about fishing to comment intelligently then, doubt we waste water on them though. But the problem with farming isn't just about wasting water but also food. If we farm fish and give them food that people could eat then that is also an inefficient use of resources. Chickens consume much less food and water than cows but farming them is still an inefficient way to use resources

 

[Westbahnhof]

I trust you.

Not sure if this is sarcasm, but it being posted there and causing a huge fight is why I remember it after so many years.

 

[Stone Ocean]

You are making a straw man argument. I wasn't talking about whether we should eat meat or not, that's up to people and it's why I made it clear hat I eat meat myself despite growing up a vegetarian. I was talking purely about how our bodies don't "need meat", what our bodies need is protein and meat just happen to be an easy to come across source in today's environment.


To answer you question, obviously we won't able to. It's because there is no infrastructure to support it and it's not really possible to change that infrastructure to something completely different now.

And that's what my point is, we don't eat meat because "our bodies need it". We eat meat because there is no other viable alternative and the reason for not having a viable alternative is because of he way he infrastructure is set up...not because the alternatives lack nutrition. And it's just not possible to change that infrastructure now. There'll be a change when synthetic meat becomes prevalent but I'll still be able to order a beef burger or a steak if I want to. Hence, it'll minor change compared to having the world shift to vegan/vegetarianism.

I never argued that our bodies need meat though? When I'm talking about survival, I mean more than simple biological sustenance. We need meat to survive from a logistics standpoint.

You said that eating meat is a choice when it's really not for a lot of people.

 

[FallingEdge]

Not enough protein to go full vegan for me. Plus I really enjoy meats.

 

[One Eyed Willy]

I presume meat consumption will start a downwards trend similar to tobacco and cigarettes. There needs to be a cultural shift directed by conscious health concerns. And we're not at that point quite yet.

Nah

 

[EMT0]

I work in catering and we provide vegan meals for guests that need them. And I have never, ever seen this behavior. Your brother in law's just a clown.

 

[Gattsu25]

Not sure if this is sarcasm, but it being posted there and causing a huge fight is why I remember it after so many years.

Yeah, the chance that you happened upon the stereotypical tumblr warrior was always in the back of my mind. It's why I left in the "likely" and "almost" mentions.

All I can say is, condolences. I've never met someone that unreasonable before...wait..scratch that I'm related to someone like that only over different subjects

 

[Mimir]

Not enough protein to go full vegan for me. Plus I really enjoy meats.

Plenty of protein can be found in plants. It's really not that difficult.

The family at the table were eating fish not beef. I basically just eat chicken and eggs how much am I contributing to that number?

For chicken, 518 gallons per pound. And about 52 gallons per egg. This is from Water Footprint Network, rather than the industry study that touted just 441 gallons per pound of beef. A more accurate number for beef would be about 1845 gallons per pound.

Here are the sources they used for those numbers:
http://wfn.project-platforms.com/Reports/Mekonnen-Hoekstra-2012-WaterFootprintFarmAnimalProducts.pdf
http://wfn.project-platforms.com/Reports/Report-48-WaterFootprint-AnimalProducts-Vol1.pdf

 

[Agent Gibbs]

Well I just wasted far too much of my life reading this shit show of a thread

lets get it out of the way, this guy was rude, not because he was a vegan, but because he chose to make a scene, even if he worded his nonsense politely.

From OP's follow ups, his Sister and Brother in Law have been vegans for one year during which time they have joined several vegan facebook groups and began to associate only with vegans - this is not healthy isolating themselves from other view points and allowed them to sit unchallenged in a bubble and now in their echo chamber they have developed a new isolating ideal that they will not eat anywhere where non vegan food is served.

That isn't healthy, as it will isolate them from the majority of society, family and friends. Its a rude tactic (by its originator) designed to passively aggressively put pressure on non vegans that if they wish to associate with their family they should adopt their lifestyle, albeit temporarily at first, the tactic is that it becomes easier for them to become vegans
If the tactic doesn't work, it isolates the vegan from family.
Its a silly ideal, if you want people to be vegans, promote the cause in such a way that it entices in a positive manner.

But food politics/beliefs aside this is obviously a belief they now hold and knew of before the family meal was arranged, so could have been communicated before hand and dealt with, either by them not coming if family wished to eat meat, or a meal for all being made!
its obvious specific meals were provided specifically because care and thought was put in before hand because of previous accommodations.

Not advising before hand that they would not eat at the same table as meat, seems an intentional choice so as to make a stand, its not as if you'd forget such a life choice and forget to inform. So regardless of how politely the initial statement was, it was designed to create a scene to get across a specific point that meat is murder.
That is exceptionally rude!

OP's reaction of confusion and anger is perfectly reasonable in the situation, but I'd hazard a guess a reaction that was expected and desired by the brother in law.

Should they lock the door, thrown them out etc? hell no
The family should sit down and talk through this ideal, they need to address the isolated view their daughter and brother in law are fostering and if they stead fast will not adjust it or make accommodations themselves, then a way forward for future needs to be made, but it needs to be made quite clear that such childish behaviour is not acceptable.

I do wonder if the brother in law has used this tactic on his own parents yet? I know if it was my parents I'd get one hell of a dressing down, bumping me down of that high horse and to reality swiftly, even if the net result was Vegan meals whilst I was there.

 

[Alcotholic]

Can't remember where I read it but someone once posed an interesting thought experiment to a vegan or group of vegans that don't eat on ethical grounds - went along the lines of this:

Science manages to create a cow that does not have a brain, it's just a cow body with a tube for feeding. It can't feel pain and doesn't have any consciousness that we would recognise. No different to an insect or a plant. The cow is fed for a few years, then when it has reached a certain size, is guided into the slaughterhouse, where the unthinking, unconcious animal walks into the meat grinder. No pain, no distress, no ethical issue. Tasty steaks come out the other end. Would you eat the meat?

There is something weird and fucked up about that. I'm not sure how I'd feel about it, because it's edging on creepy.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Then be clear about what you're talking about. Had you payed any attention you'd know full fell I don't expect anything at all. I would -like- for everyone at a dinner to enjoy the same meal, but that's an entirely different thing.

lol, yeah sure it's my fault for "misreading" your posts:

When me and my wife go to dinner somewhere, we're always served "the other" dish. We don't say anything, but it feels very disrespectful. Why not serve something everyone can eat? It's not like only vegans can eat vegan food. We're always treated differently, and it kinda sucks.

And of course the post (which you now edited to make it less angry, but the point is the same):

How does it make sense to instead make one ordinary lasagna, then maybe one extra lasagna, or maybe not an extra vegan lasagna. The vegans can just eat the lettuce, right? They like that.

How hard is it to understand that cooking a vegan meal is just that, a meal? We're having the vegans over, so let's try a vegan one! It's not like it's dangerous. Hell, you might even like it.

You are clearly saying that people should just make a vegan meal for everyone because non-vegans can eat vegans too. I mean it's already crazy to think the host should accommodate your lifestyle choice, but you are unhappy and even call it disrespectful when they go the extra mile and make a vegan dish for you, because they don't go all the way and make the whole meal vegan for everyone. It's ridiculous and beyond self-absorbed.

 

[McLovin]

If anything, meat production (specifically beef) is perilous for human survival. Livestock produce from 20% to 50% of all greenhouse gas emissions. Proccessed meat is classified as Group 1 carcinogen by the WHO. Regular meat, eggs and milk consumption are also heavily linked to cancer and diabetes.

I recommend the book "What the Health" which covers in depth the Agro business lobbying on health reports.

I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't eat meat, but that it's probably a good idea to be a bit more conscious d try to limit consumption.

I didn't read the book, but I saw the Netflix documentary. At one point they claimed you can fix diabetes buy eating eating lots of sugar. Pretty much checked out after that, I was like oh this dudes freaking crazy lol.
Edit-

Not enough protein to go full vegan for me. Plus I really enjoy meats.

They also claimed all you need is 30g of protein and even that is overkill. I was like yeah ok&#128580;