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[karasu]

Tell him that animals eat other animals outside too.

 

[Mimir]

So what's wrong with having your own chicken coop?

Homegrown eggs taste waaaay better than the ones at the store.

Those chickens are typically still purchased from the animal industry, which financially supports those practices. If I had the space to have rescued chickens that weren't purchased, I would just let the chickens cannibalize the eggs to help replenish their energy. They need it more than I do.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Can Vegans Be Top Athletes?

Carl Lewis sure seems to be the main one people love to prop up as an example of vegan performance, despite the fact that he declined starting a year into his vegan diet. No, it's not proof of causation, but makes you wonder, for sure.

If we consider the genetic component of cancer, and the multiple studies showing an increased risk of various cancers from eating meat, then yes eating meat helps you reach your genetic potential.

No study establishes that meat consumption independently displays a correlation to increased risk of cancer, just that you see increased rates of cancer in populations with diets that contain a lot of meat. Well, it's pretty important to take a look at what else those people are eating and their other lifestyle decisions in general, but doing that would be extremely costly.

And why do you believe this? Where did you hear/see it?

I'd like to see studies that show "vegetarians reach a lower genetic potential", whatever that means

But considering you're not providing any sources..

I mean, there is the simple fact that animal proteins are more complete and that humans are, in general, extremely good at metabolizing them. A rib-eye steak or an egg are mostly whole foods that are mostly a complete nutrient package. Plant stuff, especially leafy greens, can be great sources for micronutrients and vitamins, but I feel they should play a supplemental role in any healthy diet.

 

[Mimir]

Carl Lewis sure seems to be the main one people love to prop up as an example of vegan performance, despite the fact that he declined starting a year into his vegan diet. No, it's not proof of causation, but makes you wonder, for sure.

No, a year into his vegan diet, he had his best performance ever. Two years after, when he was about 31 years old, he started to decline in performance and only won one Olympic gold medal. A runner declining when he is in his 30's doesn't really make me question anything.

 

[Kaako]

I can't stand the smell of fish so I can kinda relate.

I also haaaate the smell of cooked fish. We had this one jackass at work who would always use the public microwave in the breakroom to stink up the entire god damn floor with that stench. Our manager had enough one day and put up a no fish or popcorn sign on the microwave lmao.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

No, a year into his vegan diet, he had his best performance ever. Two years after, when he was about 31 years old, he started to decline in performance and only won one Olympic gold medal. A runner declining when he is in his 30's doesn't really make me question anything.

Yeah, he may have been at his peak regardless. It's impossible to say. It's also impossible to attribute his vegan diet of just one year to his peak performance. He could have been on track to meet or exceed that anyway regardless of where his nutrients came from.

He's the one that always gets mentioned because he's the most famous, but I don't think he is a good example at all.

 

[Surfinn]

Carl Lewis sure seems to be the main one people love to prop up as an example of vegan performance, despite the fact that he declined starting a year into his vegan diet. No, it's not proof of causation, but makes you wonder, for sure.



No study establishes that meat consumption independently displays a correlation to increased risk of cancer, just that you see increased rates of cancer in populations with diets that contain a lot of meat. Well, it's pretty important to take a look at what else those people are eating and their other lifestyle decisions in general, but doing that would be extremely costly.



I mean, there is the simple fact that animal proteins are more complete and that humans are, in general, extremely good at metabolizing them. A rib-eye steak or an egg are mostly whole foods that are mostly a complete nutrient package. Plant stuff, especially leafy greens, can be great sources for micronutrients and vitamins, but I feel they should play a supplemental role in any healthy diet.

You're totally changing your argument.

You originally commented on not eating MEAT, not only consuming plant based foods. And all I see from your posts are weak assumptions based on "I think/I feel" with absolutely no substance to back your claim.

Again, how are non meat eaters less healthy or worse off than meat eaters? Where is the substance to back "you should eat meat if you want to thrive and be healthy"?

 

[Morrigan Stark]

much better foods.

No such thing xD

 

[Deleted member 17706]

You're totally changing your argument.

You originally commented on not eating MEAT, not only consuming plant based foods. And all I see from your posts are weak assumptions based on "I think/I feel" with absolutely no substance to back your claim.

Again, how are non meat eaters less healthy or worse off than meat eaters? Where is the substance to your claim?

I don't believe I changed anything. I honestly don't understand your second sentence. "Not eating meat (animal products)" and "only eating plant based foods" are saying the same thing differently, no?

Anyway, it's not as simple as saying "meat eaters" are more healthy. You have to look at what else they are eating and what their lifestyles are like. An active and health conscious vegan is certainly going to be more healthy than a typical obese fast food eating soda chugger.

 

[Boney]

Here's a question for vegans. If eating meat is murder, then in a vegans ideal world, in which nobody eats meat, is the plan to kill off the entire cow/chicken/pig industrial complex? These animals are bred specifically for this purpose, and there existence in such large quantities is what is accounting for the climate problems they present, so the solution is naturally to kill them off.

I do not believe that eating or killing animals is murder, because murder itself is a human construct, but if that is what vegans believe, then their utopia is also their nightmare, because it would consist of committing genocide on entire breeds of animals that have been created specifically for consumption, in the name of environment protection. That seems like quite the moral quandary.

There's also the moral quandary of dealing with non-native and invasive species. Do we try to solve the problems we've created by exterminating invasive species? If so, where is the line?

You could easily set a 10-15 year plan to gradually decrease livestock as consumption starts to be phased out.
Trying to fit all vegans or vegetarians into one smashingly mindset is too reductionist. Not all think killing animals is inhumane or unethical and others could just compromise to be practical about it.

I still stand that with nutritional supplements being so readily available, we should start to phase out livestock through direct government regulation. Processed meat is the most affordable but it's incredibly harmful, so I don't think taxing meat is unreasonable as long as you have the needed nutritional plans to serve the population. It requires major commitments and radical transformation to the food industry but it's something that urgently needs to be resolved on enviromental reasons alone. Americans eat a disproportionate amount of meat as well since it's heavily subsidized.

 

[Surfinn]

I don't believe I changed anything. I honestly don't understand your second sentence. "Not eating meat (animal products)" and "only eating plant based foods" are saying the same thing differently, no?

Anyway, it's not as simple as saying "meat eaters" are more healthy. You have to look at what else they are eating and what their lifestyles are like. An active and health conscious vegan is certainly going to be more healthy than a typical obese fast food eating soda chugger.

Your response to "It's 100% unnecessary for humans to eat meat":

I would disagree with this statement if the goal is to thrive and be healthy.

..then your argument somehow changed to only eating plant based later on.

You do realize the difference between vegetarianism and veganism, right? The former is only no meat; the latter is no animal products at all (ie no cheese, eggs, milk). Vegetarians eat eggs, milk, cheese.. Anything that is not meat.

Your original claim, that people who don't eat meat can't thrive and be healthy, is bullshit.

As is your claim that meat eaters are more healthy.

 

[captive]

No, a year into his vegan diet, he had his best performance ever. Two years after, when he was about 31 years old, he started to decline in performance and only won one Olympic gold medal. A runner declining when he is in his 30's doesn't really make me question anything.

he also failed a drug test.

 

[Surfinn]

he also failed a drug test.

Nah. Clearly a dirty vegan failure

 

[Mimir]

Your response to "It's 100% unnecessary for humans to eat meat":



..then your argument somehow changed to only eating plant based later on.

You do realize the difference between vegetarianism and veganism, right? The former is only no meat; the latter is no animal products at all (ie no cheese, eggs, milk). Vegetarians eat eggs, milk, cheese.. Anything that is not meat.

Your original claim, that people who don't eat meat can't thrive and be healthy, is bullshit.

As is your claim that meat eaters are more healthy.

I shifted the argument to be based on veganism, rather than vegetarianism, I don't think it's fair to say Zefah shifted the goal posts on that, but I think it's been well-established that people can be healthy and thrive on a vegan diet.

he also failed a drug test.

In 1988, when he was still eating meat, and years before he had his breakthrough performance. But my argument doesn't rely on Carl Lewis. There are many other vegan athletes that were mentioned in that video, and many more that weren't mentioned.

 

[Surfinn]

I shifted the argument to be based on veganism, rather than vegetarianism, I don't think it's fair to say Zefah shifted the goal posts on that, but I think it's been well-established that people can be healthy and thrive on a vegan diet.


In 1988, when he was still eating meat, and years before he had his breakthrough performance. But my argument doesn't rely on Carl Lewis. There are many other vegan athletes that were mentioned in that video, and many more that weren't mentioned.

He literally just posted that he had no idea there was a difference between vegetarianism and veganism... He shifted by accident lol.

The shift wouldn't have happened if not for ignorance. So I'm not sure why responsibility should be taken away from the poster?

Though yeah, either way, there's no evidence that people can't be thriving and healthy on any three of those diets.

 

[oneils]

Wouldn't an increase in plant production, especially in nut or bean production which provides protein, offset some of the supposed prevention of green house gas emissions by going to an all plant diet? You have to feed 6 billion people. People need protein. Then you add on the fact that deforested area farming increases green house gas emissions.

Corn is plants and you need tons of corn for meat agribusiness. So the offset might not be as great as you'd think.

 

[curiouscharles]

No, I don't care to do so.

I'm not saying that lots of people can't survive just fine on a plant-only diet, but I don't think they are optimal for health. It may depend on the person as we are all different, but a soy and grain focused diet, which is what a vegan diet inevitably becomes, can induce a lot of health issues in many people.

You do you, though! I'll stick with my meat and protein-based diet and continue to stay strong, healthy, and sickness-free! I'll also enjoy the occasional plant food, too!

edit: also, which "major medical organizations" are you referring to, and how infallible do you believe them to be? I imagine a lot of them gave recommendations to avoid eggs out of misplaced fear of cholesterol and allowed for Honey Nut Cheerios to slap a "heart healthy" label on their box. The catastrophic low-fat diet crazed was fueled by recommendations from prestigious medical organizations.

LOL.

no sources?

MUCH SURPRISE!

there's no defending meat eating, not for health, not for any reason other than pleasure and convenience.

i eat meat as well, but don't fucking delude yourself brah.

So what's wrong with having your own chicken coop?

Homegrown eggs taste waaaay better than the ones at the store.

nothing, there's nothing wrong with home-based chickens!

do you have them already?

we're still trying to get our yard ready for the coop & chickens - can't WAIT to taste them eggs.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

He literally just posted that he had no idea there was a difference between vegetarianism and veganism... He shifted by accident lol.

No, I really didn't. I even put "animal products" in parentheses after writing "meat" to clarify what I meant. Originally I just used meat to encompass all animal products since this thread was about a vegan story, so I felt the context was sufficient.

there's no defending meat eating, not for health, not for any reason other than pleasure and convenience.

i eat meat as well, but don't fucking delude yourself brah.

I completely disagree. From a pure nutrient density perspective, meat and animal products are the way to go.

 

[BlackGoku03]

Those chickens are typically still purchased from the animal industry, which financially supports those practices. If I had the space to have rescued chickens that weren't purchased, I would just let the chickens cannibalize the eggs to help replenish their energy. They need it more than I do.

That seems... Like... Cant find the word.

I found some sites from vegans about it. They say vegans aren't all about rules and definitions but holy hell, they have tons of rules for owning chickens. They seem superfluous. I'm sorry I looked it up. Following those guidelines, the chickens live better than most dogs and some people!

nothing, there's nothing wrong with home-based chickens!

do you have them already?

we're still trying to get our yard ready for the coop & chickens - can't WAIT to taste them eggs.

Been thinking about it. I have friends that do and they're delicious. One friend let's them free roam. Another has the coop behind its own fence so the dogs can't get the chickens. I helped him build the water system from scratch.

It takes a while for them to start laying eggs if you buy them young. But when they do, they start slow but they're sooooo good.

 

[Mimir]

That seems... Like... Cant find the word.

I found some sites from vegans about it. They say vegans aren't all about rules and definitions but holy hell, they have tons of rules for owning chickens. They seem superfluous. I'm sorry I looked it up. Following those guidelines, the chickens live better than most dogs and some people!



Been thinking about it. I have friends that do and they're delicious. One friend let's them free roam. Another has the coop behind its own fence so the dogs can't get the chickens. I helped him build the water system from scratch.

It takes a while for them to start laying eggs if you buy them young. But when they do, they start slow but they're sooooo good.

I don't really focus my energy on backyard chickens, because if more people switched to a vegan lifestyle with the exception of occasional eggs from backyard chickens, that would still be a major win for animal welfare.

 

[Surfinn]

No, I really didn't. I even put "animal products" in parentheses after writing "meat" to clarify what I meant. Originally I just used meat to encompass all animal products since this thread was about a vegan story, so I felt the context was sufficient.



I completely disagree. From a pure nutrient density perspective, meat and animal products are the way to go.

Ok. So by "meat" you secretly meant all animal products. You didn't distinguish anything when you first made your absurd claim so why would anyone think otherwise? Lol.. I think we're done here. Your arguments are as solid as a gushing waterfall

 

[Van Bur3n]

I mean, if you're vegan on a moral basis, that seems fair enough.

Like, would you sit at a table where they're carving up a whole golden retriever like a Christmas ham?

Depends. How does Golden Retriever taste?

As for your sister, OP. Man, her husband sounds like a little bitch. I would simply continue to eat my fish, only a bit louder so he could hear me devour what was once a living creature.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Ok. So by "meat" you secretly meant all animal products. You didn't distinguish anything when you first made your absurd claim so why would anyone think otherwise? Lol.. I think we're done here. Your arguments are as solid as a gushing waterfall

You are really trying to go for a "gotcha" or something... I mean "vegan" is in the title of this thread and is what started the discussions therein. Vegans do not eat animal products by definition. Not that much of a stretch given the context, but go ahead and continue feeling smug about this whole thing. There are way too many definitions of "vegetarian" to ever use it in a conversation without detailed qualifiers.

 

[Vagabundo]

Studies show no long term health benefits from the lifestyle. Eating meat and fish as part of a balanced diet and you'll life just as long. Genetics and physical activity probably have more of an effect on longevity than diet - as long as you dont have a crazy ass diet.

If you want to be more carbon efficient cut down on lamb and beef :

-------------------

LOL.



there's no defending meat eating, not for health, not for any reason other than pleasure and convenience.

i eat meat as well, but don't fucking delude yourself brah.
.

Diet doesn't suit everyone. Sometimes even the most committed of vegans have to give up the lifestyle for health reasons.

 

[tattooed_dwarf]

Pro-tip: the motivation behind rape isn't necessarily sexual

It's just stupid answer to stupid question. But yeah, rape isn't done simply by sexual reasons, though it always plays a part.

Though it's all kinds of weird to keep cows pregnant so people get milk and veal. But I wouldn't compare it to rape, it's just another kind of twisted way we humans have.