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[Pegasus Actual]

Apologies to Pegasus, but I'll leave your reply to tomorrow.

That sounds ominous. Like you're going to beat me down mercilessly with a 2,000 page B5 encyclopedia or something.

 

[JeffZero]

Whew, getting 2x02 in before bed! New write-up (and reply to BlackLagoon, etc) coming tomorrow.

 

[JeffZero]

I remembered this as a decent episode with some setup legwork and a couple of good moments. I was mistaken. "Revelations" is up there with the best of the first season. It's a substantial step up from "Points of Departure", which was solid in and of itself. It dives right in and doesn't relent. It adds texture to our new captain and reintroduces Delenn and G'Kar to much success. It's kind of awesome.

Hey, I know you. You're the ship. You know, from the credits. The ship that blows up in the credits.

John Sheridan's first (screentime representation of a) council meeting is loud, boisterous, and 100% Londo. The Centauri ambassador, who is secretly coveting the victory at Quadrant 37, is most wroth over G'Kar's disappearance and Delenn's say-this-with-a-straight-face cocooning. He moves that they both be replaced, and absolutely nobody agrees. But all told, he's having a good time of it. Mr. Morden makes another visit to B5, insisting his new friends will be completely kosher should Londo eventually decide to wipe out the entire Narn homeworld. It's an unsettling notion and Morden's smile never lets up. In return, the enigma simply asks that Londo keep him apprised of strange activities out by the Rim. What a bargain.

Meanwhile, Sheridan's checking up on Garibaldi, who he still has not met due to complications of the coma kind. Franklin suggests whipping out a certain artifact -- the life-exchanging piece from "The Quality of Mercy", a callback I'm certain most people did not expect the show to make. Sure, it was only a few episodes ago, but it was another season, and a seemingly innocuous episode, and it felt like a Plot MacGuffin. Well, it wasn't. (Or rather, maybe it was, but it's a recurring Plot MacGuffin, damn it, a Plot MacGuffin with continuity, and that makes all the difference.) Franklin volunteers to perform the operation himself, but Sheridan refuses -- he wants to be the one. They compromise, taking shifts at the device, and Garibaldi awakens. "I don't know you," he says coldly to Sinclair's replacement.

Spoiler

There's some real foreshadowing at work here.

To Garibaldi, who is awakening to discover the president's assassination happened despite his struggle to prevent it and his friend has been reassigned, Sheridan represents a threat from Earth brass. He's nobody.

There's a lot going on in "Revelations", but if I were a betting man, I'd place good money that the #1 memorable factor here is Delenn's epic unveiling. She's out of her chrysalis, she shows up in a big white robe, and she shocks the council, shocks the audience, shocks anyone who hasn't watched the unfortunate DVD transfer to the second-season opening credits and already knows Mira Furlan no longer needs a bony cranial ridge. She's something else now, something surprisingly human-esque. She's completed the transformation. Sheridan seems surprised by her beauty, leading to an iconic cinematic moment we all saw in the trailers.

Sheridan's got his hands full elsewhere, though, because his sister Elizabeth is visiting and she's trying desperately to get him to open up about the death of his beloved Anna two years earlier. It's a tough thing for him to admit, but over time she wears him down, and we learn that Anna had perished on an expedition to the Rim. (Maybe Mr. Morden would like to hear about it?) Conventionally speaking, I do find it a little dodgy that we're throwing family drama into Sheridan's character immediately after introducing him. It's a lot to take in, but it works. It enhances his presence, even if on first-time viewings I reckon some will feel disinterested due to his newness.

As Garibaldi, Talia, Ivanova, and Sheridan piece together a probable PsiCorps involvement in Santiago's death and all the other funk that's been going on lately, G'Kar shares a quiet moment of dark contemplation with Na'Toth. In it, he quotes an Earth poet, William Butler Yeats. Maybe it's a little hokey when fictional aliens do this stuff, but you know what? It doesn't matter. It never matters when the late, great Andreas Katsulas is doing it. There's not a hint of cheesiness in his telling. It just works. This, too, is a relatively new shade of G'Kar; he's back on the station now, and in the wake of what he witnessed at the Rim -- the destruction of his fellow Narn at the hands of strange ships which match ancient foreboding descriptions -- he seems changed somehow. He's more serious, more concerned, more resolved. He may be shedding his thuggish outer layer in favor of a rising role.

"Things fall apart; the center cannot hold; mere anarchy is loosed upon the world, the blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere the ceremony of innocence is drowned; and what rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?"

It's good to have you with us, G'Kar. Come what may, let's face this looming darkness together. That's what B5 is all about, ain't it?

 

[weemadarthur]

Watched 2x4

It was a fine episode. They lost a big ship, tethered some little ones in a line, and found it again, while losing a poor little starfury to the shadow which has better science clearly.

Garibaldi used butter to seduce the doc into eating ....well, butter. It does sound good. Maybe i'll make some of this dipping sauce, however you spell it. Are there more than 3 ingredients?

The CGI of hyperspace sadly hurts my eyes, and the sound design hurts my heart. We used some animaniacs to cleanse our minds of those things. Mmmm.....excellent sound design.

 

[m_dorian]

Season 2 is where the fun begins, so much that it will glorify the somewhat weak starting season. I love that they made Londo a multilayered character but that was not going to be possible if they have used a lesser actor.

This is the season where G'Kar starts to shine, in fact every single character evolves, Sheridan does it faster because there is a need to keep up. Franklin evolves in a much slower pace while Marcus has a very subtle transition.

I am on 04 08 at the moment and i am enjoying this thread immensely.

 

[NumberThree]

I reached the end of season 4 yesterday, I forgot what a mess the last episode was. I wasn't planning on watching any of season 5 (except the sendoff) but maybe I will anyway. There's some good Londo/G'kar stuff in it at least.

 

[SiegfriedFM]

I reached the end of season 4 yesterday, I forgot what a mess the last episode was. I wasn't planning on watching any of season 5 (except the sendoff) but maybe I will anyway. There's some good Londo/G'kar stuff in it at least.

A mess? That episode is a glorious, weird creation. I love it when they go high sci-fi.

 

[NumberThree]

A mess? That episode is a glorious, weird creation. I love it when they go high sci-fi.

It's mainly a victim of the circumstances around its production. It could be okay if it wasn't the final episode of the fourth season of Babylon 5, those are some big shoes to fill.

But yeah, I generally dislike any time they directly show in-universe content to the viewers (from news broadcasts to Ivanova's VOR broadcasts) so the framing device they used is already a huge negative.

 

[Pegasus Actual]

One thing that's always fun about watching old sci-fi shows is seeing how right/wrong they were when it comes to technology.

Holy shit does B5 have some of the worst computers ever. Computer, I need to run a simple keyword search! Search will take..... five hours.

Or the goofy customized newspaper recycling kiosk.

 

[ag-my001]

One thing that's always fun about watching old sci-fi shows is seeing how right/wrong they were when it comes to technology.

Holy shit does B5 have some of the worst computers ever. Computer, I need to run a simple keyword search! Search will take..... five hours.

Or the goofy customized newspaper recycling kiosk.

Most of their computers/terminals were basically tablets, so that's not terrible. For searching, it sorta makes sense that not every bit of information would be stored on every ship and station, so you would have delays waiting for transmission through hyperspace.

The font choices, however, have no defense.

 

[cntr]

There's a Heinlein novel, with interplanetary space travel and high technology and all that.

Except the main character still uses a slide rule.

 

[Pegasus Actual]

Most of their computers/terminals were basically tablets, so that's not terrible. For searching, it sorta makes sense that not every bit of information would be stored on every ship and station, so you would have delays waiting for transmission through hyperspace.

Except they seemed to have real-time video communication with Earth. Besides the computer definitely made it sound more like "oww so complicated that hurts computer's head" than anything. I mean JMS was posting about the show online, he just didn't quite put the parts together.

The font choices, however, have no defense.

Indeed.

 

[ag-my001]

Except they seemed to have real-time video communication with Earth. Besides the computer definitely made it sound more like "oww so complicated that hurts computer's head" than anything. I mean JMS was posting about the show online, he just didn't quite put the parts together.


Indeed.

Yeah, there were definitely moments. Playing devil's advocate, we've had computers as a daily part of our lives for how long now, and the bugs, glitches, and unforseen hacks never seem to go away, only change. In another 200 years, something will still be up computer systems, if only because the users are still humans.

For the real time communication, wasn't that the whole deal with the Gold Channel? I think Jeff commented on it earlier dealing with Ivanova and her father.

 

[BlackLagoon]

Sorry for skipping/deleting some parts, but this was long enough already.

Spoiler

Well he just kinda spun-off large chunks of Sinclair's arc to Sheridan. Otherwise they're not so different. Shell-shocked I guess but after learning what happened to him he seemed kinda over it. As for has been, they just kinda flopped the aspect of Earth not liking Sinclair all that much to the Minbari not liking Sheridan. And Delenn is slobbering over Sheridan after talking to him like 4 times anyway so meh.

Spoiler

Well, I think you're mostly wrong here. We dealt with some of the original plans for Sinclair, in the earlier posts, but even if we assume that had changed by the time the series went into production, there are other issues with just going Sinclair->Sheridan. Like the aged version of him in Babylon Squared. What was the point of that? Just throwing it in just to handwave it away is pointless and violates the principle of Chekhov's Gun (which jms is quite fond of). And where does Valen fit in? Was there supposed to be a second character with a Minbari connection, and if so what was the point of Sinclair? Or does Sinclair come back as Valen after winning the first Shadow War off screen and goes to Z'Ha'Dum and becomes president of the ISA?

And there was no storyline about Earth not liking Sinclair. He was a minor officer with a dead-end career until the Minbari pulled him out of obscurity by getting him assigned to B5. This got the xenophobic Knights suspicious of him, and then he ruffled a few feathers due to how he ran the station and got investigated in Eyes. I don't see how you can compare that to Sheridan being widely known as the greatest hero of the Minbari war to humans and reviled by the Minbari warrior caste for his "honorless" actions against the Blackstar.

Spoiler

I don't remember anything interesting about Lochley, we'll see when I get to S5 I guess. But it went from woman second... to woman second... to woman second... except this time she's technically in command because Sheridan is President of Whatever now. Moving a couple of characters around for the awful Byron plot is hardly a big deal or a masterstroke.

Spoiler

Now that's a bit of a strawman. Your original assertion was that jms "claims things were planned out when they really weren't", that what was I was arguing with. Not that all the "escape hatches" were "masterstrokes".

In the case of the Byron story, what we got was clearly inferior to what was originally intended. But it did allow the story to happen, let the over all story arc proceed, still putting Lyta* on the path of war with the PSI Corps that we saw the fallout of in Crusade. That's what these reassurances to fans were about - that he had back-up plans so the story he was trying to tell, the 5 year arc fans were getting invested in, wouldn't fall apart the moment real life decided to rear its ugly head and put bumps in the road.

(*Lyta would have been part of Byron's cult, just not his lover. Presumably very, very angry at Ivanova for betraying them to Bester.)

Spoiler

That's my point, it's all fine I guess but people act like he did some sort of amazing job as if you'd never know it wasn't the original plan. And that's just ridiculous. The Sinclair/Sheridan stuff is pretty obvious. Then you have stuff like Talia getting telepath Super Powers from what's-his-face oh wait Talia is leaving here is Lyta again and remember here's a clip of her getting some Vorlon magic and now she's going to be the super telepath... I'm not really to it yet anyway so it's all a bit hazy but the Telepath War stuff is all in books anyway and really fizzles out as far as the actual show is concerned.

Spoiler

I'm not seeing the problem here. Sure, Talia and Lyta were presumably intended to serve similar roles a certain central points the over all arc, but they're not the same character. Lyta is intense but awkward, Talia is elegant and cool. Even if put in the same situations their approach and interaction with the rest of the cast would have been different... I find it very unlikely that had she stayed, Lyta would have gotten involved with Ivanova for example.

And I will say that I though the departure of Andrea Thompson was very well handled. It resolved "control" traitor plot, had a significant impact on Ivanova, established the PSI Corps as even more ruthless and sinister than previously shown, and reintroduced Lyta with a more interesting backstory that tied her more directly and naturally into the season 3 plot than Talia would have been.

Spoiler

Were the executives really all that wrong though? Aside from the fact that JMS did little to nothing with the character... some recurring and main cast Starfury pilots would have been a good thing in my opinion. It would cut down on the silliness of critical station personnel constantly taking the things out for a spin, and would offer more interesting combat scenes. Having a fairly robust roster of fighter pilots helped the BSG reboot in that regard immensely (admittedly I'm a bit of a fanboy there).

Spoiler

You were already complaining that the alien characters were getting enough screen time, and now you want to add more? Each existing character had purpose, a role to play in the arc. Adding more would mean taking away from someone else. Yes, jms could have reworked the story to fit Keffer into it (the earlier note about possibly moving the "Shadowman tie" to Keffer suggest that he did at least consider that). But in the end he chose not to, and I respect that. While the Starfurys were undeniably cool and unique with their portrayal actual space physics, they were peripheral to the story and there was no need to give them any greater focus.

...and while I don't feel like going through the episodes and counting, from memory I would disagree that there was "critical station personnel constantly" out in the Starfurys. I'm pretty sure it was only a few times per season, and then generally addressed in dialogue.

I didn't even realize it was a debate. I thought everyone agreed that JMS could have used a couple of people to clean up his scripts.

I've participated in B5 fandom for years, and argued endlessly over just about everything related to jms and the show. I would hazard a guess that you haven't. Given that don't you think it is a wee bit pretentious to make assumptions about what "everyone" thinks? I mean you're certainly free to have issues with B5 and jms' writing, but I can at least tell you with a great deal of certainty that there is a whole fucking lot of people out there that enjoy them more than you.

There's a lot going on in "Revelations", but if I were a betting man, I'd place good money that the #1 memorable factor here is Delenn's epic unveiling. She's out of her chrysalis, she shows up in a big white robe, and she shocks the council, shocks the audience, shocks anyone who hasn't watched the unfortunate DVD transfer to the second-season opening credits and already knows Mira Furlan no longer needs a bony cranial ridge. She's something else now, something surprisingly human-esque. She's completed the transformation. Sheridan seems surprised by her beauty, leading to an iconic cinematic moment we all saw in the trailers.

One thing that makes this more interesting, is that when the pilot was filmed, Delenn was intended to be male. The plan was to use an effect to deepen Mira's voice, but apparently couldn't find anything that sounded good so they dropped it and softened her prosthetics for the series. But if they'd stuck to it, that would certainly add another layer to the transformation.

G'Kar shares a quiet moment of dark contemplation with Na'Toth. In it, he quotes an Earth poet, William Butler Yeats. Maybe it's a little hokey when fictional aliens do this stuff, but you know what?

Obviously he was preparing to impress hot earth chicks with his cultured demeanor.

 

[water_wendi]

Just started season 5. Some thoughts on season 4:

i love the sit downs with the people behind the curtain parts. First there was Hippie Joe at the end of S3 and later on the industrialist.

The Garibaldi narration is god awful. Also ISN really puts the bald in Garibaldi. They used about the worst picture for him.

Season 5 intro im not feeling. Especially the end with the spray painted JMS credit.

Thirdspace started off alright. Ended up being a slightly longer regular episode. Nothing special. Nothing ill ever watch again.

In the Beginning was amazing but only if you are fully up to speed with the show. A lot of fan service here.. a lot of questions answered and gaps filled.

Back to S5.

 

[JeffZero]

Oh sweet, lots of stuff to reply to this time around! Watching some other stuff and fixing dinner right now, but I saw "The Geometry of Shadows" this morning, so I've got that one in the queue. I'll either reply to stuff and do a write-up tonight or I'll watch another and do it all tomorrow -- depends how tired I get.

Happy to see lots of momentum from other watchers, too! I'll chat with y'all about wherever you are once I'm back.

 

[Pegasus Actual]

Sorry for skipping/deleting some parts, but this was long enough already.

Spoiler

Well, I think you're mostly wrong here. We dealt with some of the original plans for Sinclair, in the earlier posts, but even if we assume that had changed by the time the series went into production, there are other issues with just going Sinclair->Sheridan. Like the aged version of him in Babylon Squared. What was the point of that? Just throwing it in just to handwave it away is pointless and violates the principle of Chekhov's Gun (which jms is quite fond of). And where does Valen fit in? Was there supposed to be a second character with a Minbari connection, and if so what was the point of Sinclair? Or does Sinclair come back as Valen after winning the first Shadow War off screen and goes to Z'Ha'Dum and becomes president of the ISA?

Spoiler

I don't think you really even need a president. As for aged Sinclair not fitting in I mean isn't that part of my argument. That the 'escape hatches' are overblown? The whole thing started in response to someone saying that it "really shows" that he had planned out escape hatches. If JMS came out today and said "the whole Sheridan character took about 20 minutes to think up once I realized O'Hare couldn't continue in the role of Sinclair" I would believe it.

Spoiler

And there was no storyline about Earth not liking Sinclair. He was a minor officer with a dead-end career until the Minbari pulled him out of obscurity by getting him assigned to B5. This got the xenophobic Knights suspicious of him, and then he ruffled a few feathers due to how he ran the station and got investigated in Eyes. I don't see how you can compare that to Sheridan being widely known as the greatest hero of the Minbari war to humans and reviled by the Minbari warrior caste for his "honorless" actions against the Blackstar.

Spoiler

Because who cares? The Minbari warrior caste was surely going to hate Sinclair once they found out they surrendered because they looked at his soul. Slightly different characters that end up in the same role anyway.

Spoiler

Now that's a bit of a strawman. Your original assertion was that jms "claims things were planned out when they really weren't", that what was I was arguing with. Not that all the "escape hatches" were "masterstrokes".

I'll just reiterate my feeling that I don't think he really planned out that many contingency plans. I'm trying to picture JMS with a flow-chart of backup characters and back-stories and 'connections' shifting between characters under certain circumstances and I just don't buy it. Even if he claims so, he comes off a bit Derek Smart-ish to me.

Spoiler

In the case of the Byron story, what we got was clearly inferior to what was originally intended. But it did allow the story to happen, let the over all story arc proceed, still putting Lyta* on the path of war with the PSI Corps that we saw the fallout of in Crusade. That's what these reassurances to fans were about - that he had back-up plans so the story he was trying to tell, the 5 year arc fans were getting invested in, wouldn't fall apart the moment real life decided to rear its ugly head and put bumps in the road.

(*Lyta would have been part of Byron's cult, just not his lover. Presumably very, very angry at Ivanova for betraying them to Bester.)

The Byron and friends plot is so far out of my mind at this point I can't really comment. Like I said, maybe when I get there. I just remember it not being good. And not having much arc payoff. And I certainly didn't last more than a couple of episodes of Crusade. It just wasn't engaging TV.

Spoiler

I'm not seeing the problem here. Sure, Talia and Lyta were presumably intended to serve similar roles a certain central points the over all arc, but they're not the same character. Lyta is intense but awkward, Talia is elegant and cool. Even if put in the same situations their approach and interaction with the rest of the cast would have been different... I find it very unlikely that had she stayed, Lyta would have gotten involved with Ivanova for example.

And I will say that I though the departure of Andrea Thompson was very well handled. It resolved "control" traitor plot, had a significant impact on Ivanova, established the PSI Corps as even more ruthless and sinister than previously shown, and reintroduced Lyta with a more interesting backstory that tied her more directly and naturally into the season 3 plot than Talia would have been.

Spoiler

You were already complaining that the alien characters were getting enough screen time, and now you want to add more? Each existing character had purpose, a role to play in the arc. Adding more would mean taking away from someone else. Yes, jms could have reworked the story to fit Keffer into it (the earlier note about possibly moving the "Shadowman tie" to Keffer suggest that he did at least consider that). But in the end he chose not to, and I respect that. While the Starfurys were undeniably cool and unique with their portrayal actual space physics, they were peripheral to the story and there was no need to give them any greater focus.

...and while I don't feel like going through the episodes and counting, from memory I would disagree that there was "critical station personnel constantly" out in the Starfurys. I'm pretty sure it was only a few times per season, and then generally addressed in dialogue.

Sure they were addressed in goofy ways by dialogue. That doesn't mean it isn't silly. And between the screen time they gave one-off pilots and the senior staff going for joyrides you'd have plenty of room for developing some recurring pilot characters.

Spoiler

You're not going to miss out on much characterization by not having those scenes of Ivanova getting bored and going out for a Starfury ride, or Sheridan getting some hours to keep up his flight status. And yes yes I know if you don't put Sheridan out there then he doesn't get kidnapped by the gray aliens but once again who really cares as it was pretty goofy and didn't they already deal with grays abducting people when some yokel was suing them at the council?

I've participated in B5 fandom for years, and argued endlessly over just about everything related to jms and the show. I would hazard a guess that you haven't.

Wow what a heavy cross to bear.

Given that don't you think it is a wee bit pretentious to make assumptions about what "everyone" thinks? I mean you're certainly free to have issues with B5 and jms' writing, but I can at least tell you with a great deal of certainty that there is a whole fucking lot of people out there that enjoy them more than you.

I didn't mean literally everyone. But I haven't ever seen anyone outright defend JMS dialogue as good in the general sci-fi discussions I've been a part of over the years. Usually the line I get from even people who love the show is that the guy had an insane script workload, which he did, and you can't expect the dialogue to be super sharp and polished, which is fair enough. But if you dig lines like "you couldn't find it with a hunting dog and a ouija board" there's nothing I can do but shake my head.

 

[JeffZero]

I now have 2x03 and 2x04 in the queue, so I'll post some replies for right now and do a double write-up post in a few hours.

I want to note, btw, that I'm avoiding the back-and-forth between BlackLagoon and Pegasus Actual merely because there are a lot of things in their spoiler-tagged (thank you both, since we have a few first-timers!) that I don't remember well enough offhand to take a stance on. <3

Watched 2x4

It was a fine episode. They lost a big ship, tethered some little ones in a line, and found it again, while losing a poor little starfury to the shadow which has better science clearly.

Garibaldi used butter to seduce the doc into eating ....well, butter. It does sound good. Maybe i'll make some of this dipping sauce, however you spell it. Are there more than 3 ingredients?

The CGI of hyperspace sadly hurts my eyes, and the sound design hurts my heart. We used some animaniacs to cleanse our minds of those things. Mmmm.....excellent sound design.

I guess I shouldn't say too much yet since I'm doing the write-up for this episode a little later today! I learned what bagna cauda is thanks to this episode. The way Jerry Doyle says it makes me very hungry no matter how recently I've eaten. The fact that I've yet to eat breakfast and I just wrapped that episode makes my Honey Nut Cheerios look like filet mignon right about now.

I find that using headphones helps with B5. Now, in the second season, the music has taken a few notches up overall. There's still plenty of eh en route but with a decent audio setup I can appreciate the nuances and intricacies of some of Franke's work a little better.

Something about the CG of the Cortez in partifcular looked painful, though -- there was a mountain of aliasing, at least on the go90 stream. It made all the, uh, Star Ocean 2-sounding "sweeping, majestic, adventurous" notes Franke kept selling me while watching the Cortez buzz by... a bit painful!

Season 2 is where the fun begins, so much that it will glorify the somewhat weak starting season. I love that they made Londo a multilayered character but that was not going to be possible if they have used a lesser actor.

This is the season where G'Kar starts to shine, in fact every single character evolves, Sheridan does it faster because there is a need to keep up. Franklin evolves in a much slower pace while Marcus has a very subtle transition.

I am on 04 08 at the moment and i am enjoying this thread immensely.

I'm glad you're enjoying it! Sorry it moves kinda glacially. I hope you'll stick around for episodic thoughts after you've finished.

I reached the end of season 4 yesterday, I forgot what a mess the last episode was. I wasn't planning on watching any of season 5 (except the sendoff) but maybe I will anyway. There's some good Londo/G'kar stuff in it at least.

I have... complicated thoughts on "The Deconstruction of Falling Stars". It's one of those episodes I can remember fairly well given how many years it's been since last I saw the show. I applaud the concepts and I appreciate that it was written quickly after the eleventh-hour fifth-season pickup on TNT.

Spoiler

I enjoy most of it, really,
but the far-future monk debate scene goes on about a dozen times longer than it ought to -- it's like an entire act! -- and it nukes the pacing IMO. Just nukes it.

Or the goofy customized newspaper recycling kiosk.

Oh lawd, that thing.

One thing that makes this more interesting, is that when the pilot was filmed, Delenn was intended to be male. The plan was to use an effect to deepen Mira's voice, but apparently couldn't find anything that sounded good so they dropped it and softened her prosthetics for the series. But if they'd stuck to it, that would certainly add another layer to the transformation.

That's fascinating. I've kinda know about it but never really researched it. Ultimately, I can't speak for what-ifs (of course) but all things I can consider being considered, I'm glad Delenn remained female. There's a better male/female cast balance among the major characters than most of B5's peers, especially up until several years later. Plus, I recall liking

Spoiler

John/Delenn as a romance, which, I mean, technically could have happened regardless but I'm not sure the networks would have been OK with it otherwise.

Obviously he was preparing to impress hot earth chicks with his cultured demeanor.

Truth.

Just started season 5. Some thoughts on season 4:

i love the sit downs with the people behind the curtain parts. First there was Hippie Joe at the end of S3 and later on the industrialist.

The Garibaldi narration is god awful. Also ISN really puts the bald in Garibaldi. They used about the worst picture for him.

Season 5 intro im not feeling. Especially the end with the spray painted JMS credit.

Thirdspace started off alright. Ended up being a slightly longer regular episode. Nothing special. Nothing ill ever watch again.

In the Beginning was amazing but only if you are fully up to speed with the show. A lot of fan service here.. a lot of questions answered and gaps filled.

Back to S5.

"In the Beginning" is another piece I remember well. It's really, really good. And it's also mistakenly viewed first by many first-time viewers who haven't been informed what not to do. I suppose that's a less likely scenario at this point in time since people are being directed to watch the show on go90, which doesn't even have the telefilms. But then again, there are so few "like" clicks on the episodes that I'm pretty sure it's not a matter of B5 being kinda niche, but rather, simply that go90 is a largely dead service. So maybe not.

Either way, can you imagine watching that thing first? Whambam. Revelation. Whambam. Revelation. None of it means a thing. Then you hop into the show confused and the better a job you did remembering things the less mystery the series contains. Lose-lose!

 

[Lanf]

"In the Beginning" is another piece I remember well. It's really, really good. And it's also mistakenly viewed first by many first-time viewers who haven't been informed what not to do. I suppose that's a less likely scenario at this point in time since people are being directed to watch the show on go90, which doesn't even have the telefilms. But then again, there are so few "like" clicks on the episodes that I'm pretty sure it's not a matter of B5 being kinda niche, but rather, simply that go90 is a largely dead service. So maybe not.

Either way, can you imagine watching that thing first? Whambam. Revelation. Whambam. Revelation. None of it means a thing. Then you hop into the show confused and the better a job you did remembering things the less mystery the series contains. Lose-lose!

I did! By accident of course. (I mean, the title *was* 'In the Beginning'...) Didn't understand a thing of what was happening and didn't finish it either. I put off starting the series proper until a few months later and luckily wasn't spoiled all that much, but it wasn't a great start to B5 in any case. Maybe change the title though!

Anyway, I'm loving this thread, honestly didn't think it would last this long, but here we are and the best is yet to come. Kudos for taking the time to write all those lovely recaps Jeff, really brings back memories and makes me long for a rewatch. Please keep it up so I can have my daily fix

 

[JeffZero]

Two for the price of one today.

We've arrived at a bit of a lull in the early season with today's pair. They are not without their flaws -- and they're very visible, very upfront sorts of flaws. I'm not talking about narrative flaws that fall apart under logic, although they probably do that too. I'm talking about matters of production, and cheese, and other such matters. But both episodes are eminently watchable, for good reasons as well as for a laugh. The laughs aren't always intentional. That's OK -- inadvertent humor happens to be some of the best around.

So. "The Geometry of Shadows". What's it about? It's about a few things. It's about Garibaldi accepting a measure of discomfort with his return to work. It's about Londo gaining momentum within the Centauri ranks and thus pursuing something more -- something which backfires on him. It's about a recently-promoted Susan Ivanova being given a difficult task as not so much learns well-natured diplomacy as stubbornly embraces her own brash style of it. On paper, this all sounds great, and you know, most of it is pretty decent. So where's the flaw? I spent a whole paragraph on flaws, where are they? Well, ah, let's just dive right into the first picture.

After a gainful chat with a Centauri by the name and title of Lord Refa, who we are told we'll be seeing more of in future, Londo discovers that the Technomages are passing through B5. I want you to say that word with a straight face. Go on. I'll give you ten seconds. "Technomages." If you've successfully passed this test, I'll move you to the next course. Here's your task: take seriously the dialogue delivered by the man in the picture above. He warns Londo not to test the patience of mages. He prattles about magic. It's not impossible. His actor revels in the cheese and Sheridan is at least given the good graces to be skeptical until an orange blossom appears in his hand. (The man loves all things oranges, after all.) Now for the final exam: I want you to tell me that you genuinely believe the CG manifestations at the climax of Londo's blunder enhance the story. First there's the rancor knockoff, which scares Vir. Then there's the "spell" that's cast on Londo's computer which erases his files. Lastly, and this is the kicker, there's the trio of little demonic gremlin things stuck to the back of Londo's shirt as he walks away. This is all so ridiculous. I want you to imagine the lead technomage's Mandarin-esque voice delivering this next line: "there's an old Earth phrase. I literally can't even. I literally can't even with this."

And yet, it works. That's something I find myself saying sometimes with this show, especially early on. "And yet, it works." It works because the actors give their all, it works because Londo's so fascinating, it works because Vir's at his best thus far here, it works because it's so absurd it passes all rules and clicks. And that's precisely what happens with the other big story of the hour.

Let me tell you a story. How did I get my tag here on NeoGAF? I got this tag because I was a participant in last year's RealpicGAF February and I had a wonderful time. I got this tag because I mentioned to fellow B5 enthusiasts, including our thread's very own jb, that if I were ever to receive a tag on this site it had best be Green Drazi, because the line was drawn long ago and I knew which side I stood upon. As it happens, ThoseDeafMutes thought it would be funny if I were permanently engraved with the markings of Purple Drazi instead. I fought, rebelled, but I did not stand a chance. Still, it was the instinctual thing to do -- to cry havoc! To battle mine enemies. That's it. That's the story. That's how it happened and it works just as well as a summary of this entire Ivanova plot. It's absurd.

Ivanova, you see, has been promoted to commander. And Sheridan wants her to exercise this new authority in a learning experience. Drazi are beating up Drazi all over the station and it has to stop! She has to stop it, and she has to do so peacefully. Ivanova soon learns that Drazi pull colored scarves out of a barrel and then fight for whichever side they wind up on until one side prevails. That side becomes the ruling class for the next five years. Ivanova breaks a leg (because Claudia Christian actually broke a leg, so it had to be written in) and eventually gets captured. The Green Drazi are nefarious, you see, and they've stolen her identity long enough to order all Purple Drazi to a certain location where they will be sent out into space. I want to take this opportunity to mention that I misremembered the roles the two sides play in this episode and the joke's on the mods because I guess I wanted to be Purple Drazi after all. Sure, you can easily argue the Purples would have done the same thing if they'd been the ones to think about it, but I prefer to live in a cloudy little bubble where the Purples are honorable. It makes me feel better about my poor life decisions.

But Garibaldi, who's been wrestling with the weight of the fact that a subordinate of his double-crossed him and is considering taking his leave of the station and returning to a life of wandering, clues in on what's happening. He tags along, pretends he's some kind of cartoon salesman or something, confuses the Greens, and lets Susan handle things on her own terms. Her own terms happen to involve yanking a scarf and unintentionally becoming the leader of all Green Drazi. They bow to her newfound wisdom and the crisis is averted. The technomages, meanwhile, depart for worlds unknown because a great storm is coming and they don't want their techniques lost in its wake. Our first episode ends brilliantly, despite itself.

Today's second episode follows a similar course as the first, being somewhat incredulous and yet working better than it has any business working. "A Distant Star" is about John Sheridan, wondering if he's in the wrong place here in his new command, because an old friend of his named Jack Maynard brings his ship in for supplies. Maynard commands the Cortez, which keeps getting majestic shots despite its serious aliasing problem, and the Cortez is on a years-long mission of exploration. Maynard and his crew will eventually get stuck in hyperspace, apparently because some fans wanted a story about this or something, which leads to some fun Starfury action and Warren Keffer -- who exists, apparently -- using a shadowy mysterious vessel to his own advantage in narrowly escaping hyperspace fatality.

It didn't look this good on go90, okay?

"A Distant Star" is also about Dr. Franklin's zany new plan to introduce a diet to the command crew. He keeps snapping whenever someone says "diet" and corrects them with the term "food plan." It's like someone was watching an old syndicated talk show episode of The Rosie O'Donnell Show (which used to be a thing, oh god, I'm getting old) and said "hey, we should pilfer a story from this and I don't think we can make Rosie's fear and loathing of squirrels work in Season 2. Maybe if we were still in Season 1. Let's just do diet comedy instead." So Franklin carries about telling Sheridan to eat salad, to wit Sheridan replies that this is "rabbit food", and he tells Garibaldi he can't eat bagna cauda, which I advise you look up on Wikipedia, because the entire pop culture section is Babylon 5, and Franklin also tells Ivanova that she needs to eat more fatty foods. Ivanova says she's becoming the ever-expanding Russian frontier. Franklin says she has very nice borders. This is what's happening on Babylon 5 this week. "And yet, it works."

Seconds later, they'll all swap their food dishes to suit their preferences. Moments later, Franklin will arrive like the Grim Reaper himself, snicker, and they'll switch back. Decades later, I still can't fathom how anyone would want to eat a salad that bland. It's literally just mixed greens. I'm not even kidding. It's 45 calories on a good day. Ivanova should be dead.

The Cortez gets lost, Sheridan gives a rousing speech, and Keffer sees the enigmatic ship that Maynard had told Sheridan he'd once seen, himself. Or something similar, at any rate. Keffer's commanding officer loses his life in an accidentally hilarious scene in which he shouts "Keffer" at the top of his lungs, elongating it to ungodly proportions. Also, um, the other actors surrounding Maynard on his ship's bridge are awful. I'm sorry, but they're bad. Really, really bad. The Asian lady looks like she thinks she's in an elementary school play and the Caucasian XO cannot stop for breath no matter the cost. It pains me to think of Sheridan's old friend "Stinky" (I'm not even kidding) being stuck in deep space with these people for years.

Oddly enough, Garibaldi's guest star sidekick this episode is fantastically-played. He's a smooth-talking deckhand who gathers the ingredients from Earth for Garibaldi to defy Franklin's overzealous medical advice and put together his father's favorite dish. He's great. I don't know why they didn't bring this guy back. OK, I probably do know why -- he probably didn't fit in any subsequent stories. But I can't speak enough praise for how funny this dude is in his, like, two scenes. Of course, the wild Franklin prowls the docking bay and comes upon his prey, catching the devious Garibaldi in the act. Garibaldi explains the personal importance of cooking this meal every year, Franklin relents, and the pair share a nice dining scene together. It's slice-of-life and it works.

Neither "The Geometry of Shadows" nor "A Distant Star" are going to win any awards, but despite the drawbacks, especially in the former, neither of them is bad either. They're a couple of average outings held up by some surprisingly competent comedy but anchored down by some misfires. They're alright.

Purple.

 

[weemadarthur]

I failed your test.

But I am very glad you've become reconciled to your tag.

 

[JeffZero]

I did! By accident of course. (I mean, the title *was* 'In the Beginning'...) Didn't understand a thing of what was happening and didn't finish it either. I put off starting the series proper until a few months later and luckily wasn't spoiled all that much, but it wasn't a great start to B5 in any case. Maybe change the title though!

Anyway, I'm loving this thread, honestly didn't think it would last this long, but here we are and the best is yet to come. Kudos for taking the time to write all those lovely recaps Jeff, really brings back memories and makes me long for a rewatch. Please keep it up so I can have my daily fix

Haha, thank you! I will try my best to keep this going for you all the way through 'til the end. And I'm sorry you experienced that telltale age-old "In the Beginning" mix-up. I'm glad you survived the bewilderment!

I failed your test.

But I am very glad you've become reconciled to your tag.

It's been a long time coming. <3

 

[SiegfriedFM]

It seems to me that after the wham episodes, they had a few season 1 leftovers to deal with before getting into the arc. The technomages in particular feels like the alien of the week stuff in season 1.

The revelations in hyperspace did add something to the arc, but it's coming together veeeeeery slowly at first.

 

[JeffZero]

A rough episodes by most measures, "The Long Dark" is clearly some kind of first-season holdover, or else just not a very pleasant story pitch for the new year. Or maybe I'm just not a horror fan and that is the thing which chiefly checkers my perception. Either way, I can't recommend this episode on its own merits, but it -- like most of the lower-shelf fare on this show -- has a few sterling moments. And because it's the second season and not the first, it also contains a sprinkling of story-seeding for the main conflict of Babylon 5. And it's got Dwight Schultz, too. And he's Schultzing it up to 11, let me tell you.

Reginald Barclay. Darkest timeline.

An old Earth cryo ship swings by B5, featuring technology a hundred years out-of-style. We come to find that while one of the two passengers is alive and well (except her tear ducts are dried, which is a fascinating little piece of trivia), the other one is decidedly not. He's been eaten somehow, although he's still relatively intact. Something feasted on him in some dark fashion, and the list of suspects is limited to one -- his wife Mariah, the survivor. Meanwhile, Schultz plays a ranting lunatic archetype who warns that the end is nigh while humans and aliens go about their day. He's repeatedly taken in by security, and one of Garibaldi's lackeys says that lurkers should just get spaced. That seems... a bit extreme. Anyway, this lurker, whose name is Amis, has the good stroke of luck to be seen by Garibaldi himself. We learn that they were both GROPOS, that is, "Ground Pounders", during the Earth-Minbari War. Amis gets let off easy so he can go speak of the coming darkness and the end that is nigh all over again.

This, basically.

When an alien dies in much the same way Mariah's husband did, the League of Non-Aligned Worlds gets antsy, forcing Sheridan to crack the whip a little bit. Londo laughs his way on out of these proclamations of "evil among us" and the camera zips in on G'Kar who is most decisively not laughing. Later, at the end of the episode, he'll be back to his books again confirming suspicions that the creature is part of that terrible fleet gathering near a world called Z'ha'dum. Scary stuff.

It all goes sideways as Garibaldi's new friend Amis leads him like a hunting dog through the station to catch a predator. Meanwhile, Stephen Franklin gets a little too close to Mariah, who plays a piecemeal part in bringing down the creature by the end as well. Here's our basic framework, then: a little Garibaldi depth through Dwight Schultz, a little doctor/patience intimacy through Mariah, and an ancient scourge hellbent on feasting on a quarter million humans and aliens all alone in the night.

So what's the problem? Why did I start this review so negatively? The core plot is fine if relatively unremarkable, with tangential ties to more important matters and an occasional character beat for its chosen leads. But the devil's in the details. To begin with, all my recurring problems with Christopher Franke's music gather at once to form a perfect storm of crummy composition. The bit-player horror schlock of rapid zoom-ins on frightened characters and human popsicles is made exponentially cheesier when a single minor key is struck ad nauseum, or when an electric guitar rather randomly joins in the fun for four seconds. The result is some kind of joke, a 1995 Nickelodeon atmosphere which undercuts several would-be winners. It's the editing process that sinks this ship, every step of the way.

Compounding matters, Schultz's earlier scenes are... well, he does his best. The cheese springs eternal. Once Amis is given the opportunity to calm down long enough to chat with Garibaldi, he's a richer character whose actor thrives on this material. But whenever he's frantic, he isn't the Barclay Playbook kind of frantic -- he's just manic-panic to the max -- and the way the shots are framed, the way the music lumps on, it's a disasterpiece. Nor do Mariah's almost-romance cues with Franklin win any awards, although props are given to the both of them realizing, as mature adults, this really isn't a good idea. Since we're on the subject of Star Trek thanks to good ol' Dwight, I'll say that I suspect many episodes of Star Trek: The Next Generation would have just ended the scene with the two of them making out, skipped ahead to insinuate they've slept together, and only then have them wonder if mistakes were made. It's refreshing to see both Stephen and Mariah acknowledge this is a bad idea.

The climax is similarly weak; the weird noncorporeal alien menace gets blasted to bits (I guess?) at the center of some kind of laser tag concourse. It's nice that Amis lives, though; there are some bizarre little defiances of expectation in "The Long Dark", because the man is a walking death flag the whole way through. Similarly, Mariah is under suspicion for a long time, and sci-fi aficionados probably tend to wonder if she's possessed against her will and blacks out from the truth of her crimes. Nope, she's innocent.

It's moments like these, combined with important ties to the overarching lore and a genuine feeling of disquiet when Sheridan and Ivanova come to find the alien had initially planned on bringing the cryo ship to Z'ha'dum, that propel the episode from bad to average. For all its lame shock takes and difficult score, I think it's enough to call it a win that "The Long Dark" ends the hour firmly in C- territory.

 

[Man God]

Sheridan works so well because the new earth government thinks he is a smiling go getting bootlicker war hero who is down with the regime and will stick it to the Minbari after they forced in Sinclair.

 

[weemadarthur]

Just watched the Long Dark, and came back to read Jeff's writeup.

Yep to all of that. It was an introduction to the Shadows, yes? Well don't answer that, it doesn't matter really. Crazy dude didn't die even though he tried. Everything else, could basically predict all the dialogue. The horrible lighting didn't help matters, and why exactly does every doorway fill with steam before anyone can walk through? What benefit is there in space to wasting water in this fashion? Silly.

So i moved on. And the next episode was much better.
Talia finally attempts to have a purpose. Of course, she is still fairly useless - she's not that high a level of telepath, and she possesses zero skills outside telepathy. Including self preservation. Sigh.
Another villain who is pure evil when met by the camera, this actor does his best with a dichotomy of personalities coming through. It's not terrible by scar guy standards, so ok.
The episode ends with a note about section 31. I got that right, right? Which of these came first, anyway?

 

[JeffZero]

Sheridan works so well because the new earth government thinks he is a smiling go getting bootlicker war hero who is down with the regime and will stick it to the Minbari after they forced in Sinclair.

Haha, yes.

Just watched the Long Dark, and came back to read Jeff's writeup.

Yep to all of that. It was an introduction to the Shadows, yes? Well don't answer that, it doesn't matter really. Crazy dude didn't die even though he tried. Everything else, could basically predict all the dialogue. The horrible lighting didn't help matters, and why exactly does every doorway fill with steam before anyone can walk through? What benefit is there in space to wasting water in this fashion? Silly.

I love that you brought up the overabundance of steam in sci-fi. I get that it's a mood thing but it's so overdone. I laughed when I read this.

So i moved on. And the next episode was much better.
Talia finally attempts to have a purpose. Of course, she is still fairly useless - she's not that high a level of telepath, and she possesses zero skills outside telepathy. Including self preservation. Sigh.
Another villain who is pure evil when met by the camera, this actor does his best with a dichotomy of personalities coming through. It's not terrible by scar guy standards, so ok.
The episode ends with a note about section 31. I got that right, right? Which of these came first, anyway?

Watching this tonight! Section 31's existence started in 1998 with the DS9 episode "Inquisition" so this one has the edge.

 

[Pegasus Actual]

Making my way along S3... 3x06 Dust to Dust.....

Spoiler

The G'Kar explosion all over Vir and Londo was great. Kosh getting his manipulation on.... all golden. But man is that a hilarious scene where G'Kar is getting tried... while Londo is out cold in med-lab trying to recover from an epic beat-down and mind-rape... And Sheridan pleads for mercy and the judge is like, nope, clearly pre-meditated... and she goes to hand down the harsh sentence... and it's fucking 60 days detention. What in the flying fuck?!?

Just in general I recall really liking Marcus when I first watched the show, but I find him so obnoxious right now. Maybe he gets better. But it's interesting how perceptions change over time sometimes.

 

[BlackLagoon]

Spoiler

I don't think you really even need a president. As for aged Sinclair not fitting in I mean isn't that part of my argument. That the 'escape hatches' are overblown? The whole thing started in response to someone saying that it "really shows" that he had planned out escape hatches.

Well, then, to muddy the waters further, Sinclair->Sheridan was not presented as an "escape hatch" situation, but rather that there jms seeing issues with the arc that could be improved upon. Now we now know that O'Hare's illness forced his hand, but given that the original plan has been published (as discussed earlier in the thread), and I'd say the changes were in fact for the better, so I see no reason to doubt him on this.

Spoiler

Because who cares? The Minbari warrior caste was surely going to hate Sinclair once they found out they surrendered because they looked at his soul. Slightly different characters that end up in the same role anyway.

I care about you misrepresenting parts of the story. If you're going to critique it you should at least get the details right. And the warrior caste already knew that the surrender happened in connection to Sinlcair's interrogation as per the assassin's "You have a hole in your mind" taunt in The Gathering. The exact details were never revealed to the Minbari public, but not because of any fear of resentment towards Sinclair, but because the idea that humans had Minbari souls would cause massive disruption and unrest in their society.

I'll just reiterate my feeling that I don't think he really planned out that many contingency plans. I'm trying to picture JMS with a flow-chart of backup characters and back-stories and 'connections' shifting between characters under certain circumstances and I just don't buy it. Even if he claims so, he comes off a bit Derek Smart-ish to me.

Derek Smart? A minor video game developer who's been living off rehashing a modest success for decades now and who's most relevant contributions to his field in recent years is a 1500-ish selling game on Steam and being a Gamer Gate supporter? And you're comparing him to Straczynski, who's been a successful professional writer for nearly 4 decades in tv and comics, received plenty of awards, nominations and critical acclaim, even developed a damned Oscar nominated movie from scratch. Jeez.

And he's a writer. Of course he has his head filled with alternate ideas and plans, with could'ves and what ifs. That's how a lot of story is put together, and these don't automatically disappear into thin air once the preferred path is chosen. Claiming that it would be somehow beyond him to hold onto these as the show progressed is pretty absurd.

Sure they were addressed in goofy ways by dialogue. That doesn't mean it isn't silly. And between the screen time they gave one-off pilots and the senior staff going for joyrides you'd have plenty of room for developing some recurring pilot characters.

Spoiler

You're not going to miss out on much characterization by not having those scenes of Ivanova getting bored and going out for a Starfury ride, or Sheridan getting some hours to keep up his flight status. And yes yes I know if you don't put Sheridan out there then he doesn't get kidnapped by the gray aliens but once again who really cares as it was pretty goofy and didn't they already deal with grays abducting people when some yokel was suing them at the council?

Spoiler

So I'm not going to argue that this is a high point of B5, but it's still a much less common issue than you originally stated, and further it largely disappears with the introduction of the White Star in season 3. At which point what do you do with your pilot? You'd have to redefine his role into "guy who does stuff" or something, making him Marcus without the Ranger background to tie him more closely into the story.

I didn't mean literally everyone. But I haven't ever seen anyone outright defend JMS dialogue as good in the general sci-fi discussions I've been a part of over the years. Usually the line I get from even people who love the show is that the guy had an insane script workload, which he did, and you can't expect the dialogue to be super sharp and polished, which is fair enough. But if you dig lines like "you couldn't find it with a hunting dog and a ouija board" there's nothing I can do but shake my head.

I guess I get the feel that by good, you meant gritty and realistic. Which of course it isn't. It's often exaggerated and colorful. And I like that. It reminds me of classic British shows like Blake's 7 and Dr. Who.

I want to note, btw, that I'm avoiding the back-and-forth between BlackLagoon and Pegasus Actual merely because there are a lot of things in their spoiler-tagged (thank you both, since we have a few first-timers!) that I don't remember well enough offhand to take a stance on. <3

Sigh... But then I have to find time to actually write replys to everything myself. I have important, life-fulfilling things to do instead, like play Earth Defense Force.

Something about the CG of the Cortez in partifcular looked painful, though -- there was a mountain of aliasing, at least on the go90 stream.

But aren't the Explorer ships amazing? I just loved the concept, the sole part of the human fleet capable of navigating hyperspace, and the look of 'em too.

That's fascinating. I've kinda know about it but never really researched it. Ultimately, I can't speak for what-ifs (of course) but all things I can consider being considered, I'm glad Delenn remained female. There's a better male/female cast balance among the major characters than most of B5's peers, especially up until several years later. Plus, I recall liking

Spoiler

John/Delenn as a romance, which, I mean, technically could have happened regardless but I'm not sure the networks would have been OK with it otherwise.

I guess I should have been more clear, the assumption is that Delenn would have become female after the chrysalis since I can't see them still trying to pass Mira off as male in lighter, more human-like prosthetics.

"In the Beginning" is another piece I remember well. It's really, really good. And it's also mistakenly viewed first by many first-time viewers who haven't been informed what not to do.

In the Beginning was actually the introduction to the series for a whole new generation B5. It was the first thing TNT aired when they took of the series in January 98, and the centrepiece of their promotion of the show. At the very least it seemed successful at grabbing their attention and making them watching the show.

 

[Pegasus Actual]

I care about you misrepresenting parts of the story. If you're going to critique it you should at least get the details right. And the warrior caste already knew that the surrender happened in connection to Sinlcair's interrogation as per the assassin's "You have a hole in your mind" taunt in The Gathering. The exact details were never revealed to the Minbari public, but not because of any fear of resentment towards Sinclair, but because the idea that humans had Minbari souls would cause massive disruption and unrest in their society.

Spoiler

Neroon was legit shook, as the kids say, upon learning the details in S2.. I didn't say protecting Sinclair was the reason it was kept secret, I'm saying that secret getting out would be an easy way to have the warriors resent him. Ya know, pathetic weak creature that they should have killed convinced the religious stupids that we're all the same souls or some mumbo jumbo. I didn't watch The Gathering this go-round so I don't know exactly about the "hole in your mind" stuff but presumably they were trying to figure it out and upon doing so they would be pissed off just Neroon?

Derek Smart? A minor video game developer who's been living off rehashing a modest success for decades now and who's most relevant contributions to his field in recent years is a 1500-ish selling game on Steam and being a Gamer Gate supporter? And you're comparing him to Straczynski, who's been a successful professional writer for nearly 4 decades in tv and comics, received plenty of awards, nominations and critical acclaim, even developed a damned Oscar nominated movie from scratch. Jeez.

I guess you're not that familiar with him to not understand the comparison. Like JMS he posted a shit ton online to hype up his project, Battlecruiser 3000AD. Granted he was more abrasive than JMS and he delivered on his promises a hell of a lot less than JMS did. He loved to blame the publisher for everything that ever went wrong, much like JMS loved to blame others for anything that went bad.

Keffer sucks? Well the studio wanted him. That bar scene sucks? Well TNT made me do it! Lost Tales sucks and is kind of a ripoff? Well, they didn't give me the budget.

And he's a writer. Of course he has his head filled with alternate ideas and plans, with could'ves and what ifs. That's how a lot of story is put together, and these don't automatically disappear into thin air once the preferred path is chosen. Claiming that it would be somehow beyond him to hold onto these as the show progressed is pretty absurd.

Do you think he had a dossier on Talia Winters and Susan Ivanova while say writing/filming the script for The Gathering? I don't. And I agree, he's a writer, and he did regular writer shit! Good for him. But the narrative I'm challenging is that he did something special with 'trap doors'. It just seems like such a weird thing for him to get praise for. Yes he made a great arc based show. But no I don't think his arc was particularly resilient to the realities of television production due to amazing foresight and planning.

Spoiler

So I'm not going to argue that this is a high point of B5, but it's still a much less common issue than you originally stated, and further it largely disappears with the introduction of the White Star in season 3. At which point what do you do with your pilot? You'd have to redefine his role into "guy who does stuff" or something, making him Marcus without the Ranger background to tie him more closely into the story.

Spoiler

It not being an issue in season 3 doesn't retroactively make it not an issue beforehand. So maybe the role of Starfuries gets diminished in S3. Maybe you kill the pilots off when the shit hits the fan with Earth. Maybe they're just around less? Maybe if they've resonated with the audience you just have Starfuries escorting the White Star and providing more tactical depth to the proceedings.

Right now I'm at the part of the show where the White Star is on the down-low. Maybe there's a funny (or tense) scene where Sheridan's own pilots intercept the White Star to keep them a little more relevant during this phase of the show.

Actually the White Star where I'm at is kind of silly too. It feels like they aren't doing much of anything, and just parking somewhere until the bestest spaceship commander ever shows up. Yes yes, I know it's explained that it's built by the religious cast so they don't really have any space-bros to run the thing. But that something is explained doesn't automatically make something satisfying or engaging.

I guess I get the feel that by good, you meant gritty and realistic. Which of course it isn't. It's often exaggerated and colorful. And I like that. It reminds me of classic British shows like Blake's 7 and Dr. Who.

Not necessarily. I like gritty and realistic sure. I like flippant and quippy like Joss Whedon. I just find JMS's characters sound very samey, and his humor to usually be corny, sometimes to the point of cringe. The humor lands on occasion for me, Drazi rules committee for instance, but that's the exception not the rule. To me that's not really a style thing. Exaggerated and colorful can be fine too. I just don't think it was good.

 

[JeffZero]

Watched an episode earlier! I might watch another tonight and thus have another double tomorrow. You know the drill -- I'll post replies then, too. :3

 

[Man God]

I give him a ton of credit for writing almost all of the show and turning a lemons into lemonade after replacing the lead character. How many shows switch a lead so smoothly that it actually improves the show? Not many.

 

[JeffZero]

I'm beginning to have a tough time finding screenshots of the title cards of various episodes, likely because I was pilfering 'em all from the site of a guy named Ray Hardgrit who takes hundreds of DVD screenshots as he reviews stuff. It seems I've actually passed him in my rewatch (he's on 2x5 as of this writing) and I really don't want to keep making goofy pictures with SumoPaint everyday. I'm sure it'll wear thin for us all. So instead I'll just open each episode with a font-based title unless I find a pic. Also, two-for-one again today! This may become habitual.

"SPIDER IN THE WEB"

Talia's friend, Taro Isogi, comes to Babylon 5 to negotiate with a woman named Amanda Carter over matters most Martian. The name "Amanda Carter" will never not sound weird to me because actress Amanda Tapping played Samantha Carter on Stargate SG-1 for 11 years. Sheridan gets a call from a senator who thinks he's a total pushover and will spy on civilian dealings to protect Earth's interests, but he declines. A whirlwind-speed overhead of San Diego Wasteland (whoa) reveals a red-haired woman who is wearing black leather and thus evil. It's a beautiful day in the B5 neighborhood... that is, until another black-clad individual, a man named Abel Horn, pops in and zaps poor Taro to death, wrecking Martian negotiations and giving us a decent if problematic Talia story.

What follows is a cat-and-mouse game as we chase Abel around the station and Sheridan gets in deep with black ops paranoia. It's a pretty serviceable plotline and it reveals further layers of Earth's significant domestic issues. Sheridan asks Ivanova what she thinks of Talia, and if she can be trusted, which gives us a venue for telepath tales that has been lacking lately. In essence, Talia has risen out of the shadow again, and as we'll see in today's follow-up write-up, it's only the beginning. She seems to get chunks of arc storytelling in quick motion and then fade.

Now Abel himself is an interesting fellow. He's been completely reprogrammed with a new persona, a war machine hellbent on fighting the enigmatic Bureau 13's battles. But whereas most stories would give him a totally sympathetic original persona beneath the surface in order to develop a workable if somewhat cliched complexity, Horn was a deeply violent Martian revolutionary before his retooling. Yet that violence has its origins in a desire for freedom, and that's a commendable enough basis for Amanda Carter to have fallen in love with him years ago. She houses Horn as he fights his own past; Talia has an effect on him, reawakening him in bursts, and he fails to carry out his mission to kill her. Problematically, the quick blips of flashback sequence are horribly rendered; quick Windows 95 "glass-shattering" reveals his true self, and a weird all-orange paint bucket occurs before each sequence. It's just hideous, almost as bad as when the script demands poor Horn shout "FREE MARS!" and the score hits abrupt minor key. It's schlock, and it's where the episode falters.

Also, the black ops experiment responsible for Horn is called Project Lazarus.

That's two write-ups with Mass Effect 2 pictures, back-to-back. I apologize for nothing. The parallels demand recognition.

Fortunately, the meat of the episode is strong enough to forgive the cheese. We get some more great Garibaldi when he helps to comfort Talia, and later assists in bringing down Horn as he and Sheridan confront the truth of the situation. There's also the issue of

Spoiler

"Control", a vital aspect of Talia's development going forward. Whether or not capitalizing on this so... thoroughly... was JMS' first choice for her endgame, it's clear he had plans for her no matter the eventuality, and I love the connectivity of it all.

And last but not least, we can't forget the very first appearance of Zack Allen, whose first word of dialogue is "chief" and whose actor is staring so intently at Jerry Doyle you just know he's hoping for a callback. He's also listed as a guest star at the start of Act 1 despite having, like, two lines, so I have to assume JMS had plans within plans within plans. Heck, I could go so far as to recheck the Midwinter page, but sometimes I'm willfully ignorant until BlackLagoon or 4Tran say otherwise.

Rest in peace, man.



"A RACE THROUGH DARK PLACES"

Talia-centric second-season content continues in a strong episode about an underground railroad for telepaths on the run from Psi Corps. The irresistible Alfred Bester makes his second appearance in a more deeply political and all-around better-written hour than the already-decent "Mind War". Characters develop along intriguing lines, readdressing their mutual stances. Revelations and future warnings combine. "A Race Through Dark Places" isn't without a few issues, but it's mostly a good time.

Bester returns to B5 after torturing a man to death on Mars (hello, gorgeous Martian matte painting + CG package; have I mentioned I've always loved Mars in this show?) and learning of a network of illegal telepaths harbored somewhere on the city-station. He and Garibaldi get a few barbs off together, and Garibaldi launches a counter-investigation, immediately going to Susan for tips. Susan drops the Garibombshell that she has nothing to do with this; she has no love for the Psi Corps, but this ain't her style. We get some nice dialogue between she and Sheridan soon thereafter, where we learn she once tossed a telepath three stories back when they'd served together on Io. I wonder if the hypothetical Io set would have so many grey retail shipping totes laying around everywhere, too.

Speaking of Sheridan, can we talk about this gorgeous scene? Delenn's desire to understand humans is leading her down all sorts of rabbit holes. She asks Sheridan to dinner, and if this were an anime then our dear new John's cheeks would be Pikachu pink. But this isn't an anime, so instead we have to settle for Bruce Boxleitner intentionally fumbling his lines. Delenn shows up in a dress that pretty much turns Mira Furlan's chest into the suggestion of a Triforce, which further confounds Sheridan. The dialogue here is just very charming; Delenn talks about how in temple the religious caste of Minbari spend a whole year of their training learning the talents of laughter, but admits no other race has anything like this. Sheridan counters that Zen Buddhism and other Eastern faiths have a counterpart. I'm literally spending an entire paragraph on this, which should give you an idea of where I stand on the interactions this pair sometimes have together.

We'll get the other subplot out of the way, too -- Sheridan and Ivanova work overtime with the side stories this time, because EarthGov starts charging piecemeal rent for their living quarters and Sheridan takes a stand. This is a really goofy C-Plot and it occasionally wrecks the tension of the Talia gig but it's OK because this happens:

SHERIDAN: "Knock-knock."

IVANOVA: "Who's there?"

SHERIDAN: "Kosh."

IVANOVA: "Kosh who?"

SHERIDAN: "Gesundheit!"

Now I want you to join me for a little science experiment. Imagine if this moment happened with Sinclair still in command. I want you to picture Claudia Christian straight-womaning Michael O'Hare thinking he's funny-cute. I want you to hear it in your mind's... ear.

SINCLAIR: "Knock. Knock."

IVANOVA: "Who's there?"

SINCLAIR: "IT"S KOSH."

IVANOVA: "Kosh who?"

SINCLAIR: "...Gesundheit, Susan."

And people say they're similar.

I've dawdled overlong on everything that isn't the A-Plot, so let's get back to it. Dr. Franklin abruptly appears before Sheridan, giving him detailed information on what the rogue telepaths want, after Talia gets kidnapped in a botched bring-down-Bester campaign. Sheridan rightfully asks Stephen why in tarnation he knows so much, to wit the good doctor unceremoniously reveals he's their contact. Turns out he set up shop in Downbelow last year in order to help out. I love this little throwback stuff. Talia, meanwhile, gets close with the telepaths and learns their plight. It's bad. One young woman was forced into specified breeding as a teenager. An older gentleman watched his brother killed trivially. The Psi Corps are behind some bad mojo, and it's shaking Talia to her core. This all works wonders for Andrea Thompson, but sadly, as is often the case with B5 -- especially earlier on -- many of the telepath actors are a bit on the weak side. It messes up what could have been a spellbinding sequence, but it's worth it in the end. Talia and the telepaths -- with aid from a conflicted Sheridan and a go-get-'em Franklin -- trick Bester into believing he's dealt with the problem murderously. He waltzes off, feels confused, never puts together that Jason Ironheart's gift gave Talia a mind-reading block, and the situation is resolved... for now.

Talia's greatness this episode is no better than in its finale. Shaken by her recent experience, she turns to the one person she feels she can currently connect with. After the first season's difficult chemistry between she and Susan, she now feels a darkness toward the Psi Corps and a partial breaking from a bond that had become downright parental. She turns to Susan Ivanova. She brings a wine bottle, two goblets, and a request for companionship. Susan accepts.

 

[Davey Cakes]

Started a rewatch myself.

I don't care how uneven Season 1 is. Whenever G'Kar and Londo are on screen, I'm thoroughly enthralled.

That said, I forgot how good of an episode "Mind War" is, this early on. It's a great introduction to the slippery slope that is telepathy (as B5 handles it).

 

[jb1234]

It's a bit behind. It's been a bad week. Anyway.

"Grail"

Maybe it's because I was in a weird mood. Maybe it's because David Warner is one of the greatest treasures the UK has bestowed upon us. Either way, "Grail" wasn't nearly as bad as I was expecting. Don't get me wrong, it's not great either. It's just sorta watchable in a "I don't really care what's going on" sort of way. Of which there's been far too many episodes of this season.

Either way, Warner sells the material. I believed his character. I wish I could say the same for Jinxo's actor, who seemed to believe that widening his eyes and opening his mouth really wide served as emoting.

There was a moment during the episode (Warner's character beckoning the CGI mindwiper to come out of hiding) where it felt like it was building to something unexpected. It was directed and scored as a moment of awe. But no, it led to your garden variety B5 shootout and none of it mattered after all. Which describes this episode, ominous backstory about past Babylon stations aside.

Oh, and the comedic music during the Londo/Vir scenes? Yikes.

"Eyes"

Not bad. "Eyes'" biggest issue is that it falls in the shadow of other shows that have done this concept better (like TNG's "The Drumhead"). And I don't think anyone is going to claim that O'Hare is in the same league as Patrick Stewart. But for what it is, most of this episode worked well. I especially appreciated further insight into Ivanova's character. And Jeffrey Combs is solid in yet another performance that didn't remind me of any of his other roles I've seen him in.

And then there's Ben Zayn. Who cast this dude? He starts the episode already on the edge of toppling over into the dreaded overacting zone and by the end of it, he's not only toppled over but has done a few laps around it as well. He should meet up with the woman who played Deathwalker and the dude who played Zento for drinks.

What does work better (and surprisingly) is a lighthearted B-story involving Lennier and motorcycles. Mumy is just really charming in the role and it's impossible not to get caught up in his excitement. Plus, I gotta say, that's a badass motorcycle.

"Legacies"

I'd say this is more or less around the same level of quality as "Eyes", just for different reasons. I found the look at the Minbari to be generally compelling, helped by the presence of John Vickery. I'm a bit fan of Vickery's DS9 appearances and unlike SOME, he stays on the right side of the dreaded overacting zone here. It also helps to give Delenn some much-needed depth. Mira Furlan is always entertaining when her character is pissed off and taking charge.

I was less enamored with the telepath B-plot, mostly because the guest actress wasn't really up to par. It also doesn't really say anything new we don't already know about the characters. Of course Talia and Ivanova would take opposing sides on this issue. At least it dovetailed with the A-plot in a way that felt more or less organic.

(It also made it fairly clear that Narn isn't a place I'd want to visit.)

 

[JeffZero]

I'm glad we agree on Ben Zayn. Check out my thoughts on that episode; I dug up the actor's resume. He was in some big, notable, cool stuff! He is just... terrible here, for some reason.

 

[JeffZero]

Well, I'm moving tomorrow and also Game of Thrones is back on tonight, so it may be a couple more days before the next update. I'll get to it ASAP, though, and I hope to read a few more updates from other folks while I wait!

 

[weemadarthur]

Jeff, did you skip the episode with Londo's wives? His choice was pretty obvious. Even if he didn't deduce the medical assistance, he is a man who would rather reduce his political battle fronts.

I watched it, and some of the mean one liners in that and the following Bester episode had me laughing out loud.

Plus I KNEW the hair was going to be a problem for Delenn.

So we have 2 episodes in a row with someone dragging Susan into girl talk, and she looks a little over her head with it. Hilarious.

 

[JeffZero]

Haha, nope, I didn't skip it! I literally forgot to write a review for it. And not for disliking it, either! Just fully absorbed in getting ready for the trip and doing a double last time must have confused me. I'll get it in before I leave tomorrow.

Oh, there's another reason I seem to have "skipped" it. "Soul Mates" was supposed to air before "A Race Through Dark Places" but got postponed. It's not especially important at first blush but it makes certain things flow a bit better.

 

[JeffZero]

"SOUL MATES"

Londo assembles his three wives to B5 with a most important announcement: they've driven him half-crazy and midway into debt and he's filing a pair of divorces. Only one will survive the Mollari Gauntlet, as they say -- no one says this, this isn't in the script, it would be an awful line, but I haven't had coffee -- and it's obvious our Centauri Ambassador is on a mental upturn. He's doing something bold. It's the 30th anniversary of his Ascension, you see, which I have to imagine is a lot like a 30th high school reunion except cooler-sounding and you don't have to engage with people from 30 years ago. He throws a party, G'Kar throws some shade, and it's another exciting episode of Babylon 5.

I can't decide if this was a cheap prop or an expensive one.

Elsewhere on our favorite collection of spinning metal, a man named Matt Stoner is creeping aboard doing dark things. We can tell he's trouble before he even opens his mouth because he's dressed all in black. Garibaldi's Spidey Sense kicks in and he stalks him around, reports to Sheridan, and Talia happens to be in the same room (congratulating Sheridan on doing a fine job in his first few months, no less!) and hears Stoner's name. She flinches, reveals that he's her ex-husband, tells a tale about him being her first instructor, and I just want to take this opportunity to note that Talia fell in love with at least two instructors. Michael, take note: if you really want to impress her, teach her something. I should also mention the C-Plot in which Delenn looks like Ms. Frizzle.

This is the part where I admit I had no idea what Ms. Frizzle looked like until 30 seconds ago and spent my whole life just assuming she had bad hair.

Two of Londo's wives plot and scheme, one of whom purchases a Centauri artifact which Stoner himself had sold and attempts to kill him with it. It is my most sincere pleasure to tell you that Timov is neither of these wives. Let me tell you about Timov. Timov is a remarkable woman with a most delectable Transatlantic accent. She is brilliantly played by actress Jane Carr who really should be in more things. Jane Carr was "Woman - Pecker" in Austin Powers: The Spy Who Shanked Me, and I'm not sure how I feel about anything I just wrote, but IMDb is nothing if not... thorough. She was also "Additional Voices" in Blood Omen 2: Legacy of Kain, my least favorite entry in that series. What I'm trying to say here is that I love her voice and Londo chose wisely. Her name is literally "vomit" spelled backwards and that's OK too.

Stoner, who is played by Keith Szarabajka -- who literally voiced Harbinger in Mass Effect -- wanders around the station being an over-the-top jerk with poison in his every utterance. He tries to trick Talia into leaving with him, and he almost gets away with it too if it isn't for that pesky Spider-Baldi and his ally Intuition Man (hereafter referred to as John Sheridan). Seriously, Sheridan and Garibaldi both take "I have a hunch" to the next level. Sheridan supposes that Stoner has become an empath, and that's why he's gotten everyone to go along with him despite being such a rat bastard. It doesn't work on Mike, or rather, if it did, I must have missed it, because Garibaldi trounces him wholesale every scene they're in.

Something interesting about a couple of our recent villains: they've kind of gotten away with it. Garibaldi's would-be assassin was brought to Earth; Stoner is recalled to the Psi Corps. Then again, have they gotten away with it? These are some bad people they seem to be in with. Would they not be disposed-of hastily? I'm honestly not sure. I don't remember what, if anything, happens with either of these two characters going forward, and if it's not too quiet around here and someone does remember, please feel free to spoiler-tag a reply. But for now, in-the-moment? It's an interesting little twist. It shows that B5 has enemies, and they're not easy marks. Something shady is all over Earth's sphere of influence and it has reach.

Londo bids farewell to marriage with two of his wives, Timov is confused but intrigued that she remains his wife, Stoner gets the boot, and... oh, yeah, this happens:

"Soul Mates" is a fun episode elevated above average through Jane Carr's memorable performance. It ends with Delenn telling Ivanova she's been getting weird cramps lately, which I remember my grandmother laughing at back in 1995. I didn't get it. I'm sharing this with you because memories are what I have of her and she was a big B5 fan. I'm also sharing it with you because it's awkward.

Reminder: the somewhat slow updates will continue for a few more days, as I'm traveling. <3

 

[teiresias]

So I'm watching "Believers," and I really hate these "religion in conflict with medicine" stories I think every sci-fi show is obligated to do by contract.

In any event, that's not what concerns me. I'm watching with headphones and I've just noticed that in some shots in Med Lab there's some kind of ambient jungle or forest sounds in the background. Like they were filming at night with the studio doors open or something. Really weird.

 

[JeffZero]

Maybe Dr. Franklin believes it's soothing. I don't know. Grasping at straws.

Actually, something I noticed about the first season this time thanks to headphones is that a lot of the allegedly inaudible background chatter can be discerned. A lot of it is pretty silly, too!

I watched "The Coming of Shadows" in the middle of the night on a Greyhound bus heading through Ohio. It was momentous, atmospheric, and the people in the seat behind me kept staring at my phone screen whenever an alien popped up. As I'm still mid-transit, and very exhausted indeed, you can expect the next write-up tomorrow.

 

[JeffZero]

"THE COMING OF SHADOWS"

Yes, I know it's the banner for a YouTube channel. That doesn't change the pure hysteria we'll all feel upon seeing Londo's hair.

We've hit a big one, folks, and I can only hope I do it justice. "The Coming of Shadows" is the most important episode of Babylon 5 up through this point in its run, and certainly one of the best episodes of the first two seasons. Let's take a look at this Hugo Award-winning outing.

The Centauri Emperor, knowing he's not long from this universe, wants to visit B5 in order to issue a public apology to the Narn for the countless crimes committed upon the race in the past. He's obviously a peaceable man, and it's no immediate wonder cronies like Lord Refa look upon him as weak. He's old and frail, but what's worse is that he's gentle. War hawks want the Centauri back on-track to their former glory, and there's no room for decent hearts. I'd like to note something fun here: the Emperor isn't named in this episode, nor is his First Minister. As it happens, future episodes will posthumously name both characters, and they're Turhan and Malachi. How'd they get these names? Why, because of their actors, Turhan Bey and Malachi Throne, of course! And can we talk about the name Malachi Throne while we're at it? What a badass.

It's a momentous occasion to the B5 senior staff now that Turhan's here for his visit. Refa makes a visit of his own, seeing Londo ahead of the Emperor's planned speech and instructing him to read from a script once he has the Emperor's attention. I love that Refa tells Londo the speech has been studied and tested by advanced psychoanalysts. What a jackass.

Spoiler

Politics 101.

Vir has a very bad feeling about this, and it's a little funny to me how Refa hasn't gone and told Londo to can the kid already. Vir is frankly too pure for this world. Elsewhere, G'Kar has scheduled an important imperial greeting of his own: namely, he plans to assassinate Turhan. He's gunning to go down swinging, but he'll happily serve life imprisonment if he should happen to survive the ordeal. He just hopes he can complete the mission.

None of this comes to pass, because Turhan collapses from his illness on the way to his event. There's a funny, patriotic little jig from Christopher Franke during his slow-motion fall that sounds like it's congratulating the viewer for beating Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Turtles in Time for the Super Nintendo Entertainment System. Turhan's two accompanying Centauri telepaths embrace as the music ends and the beloved man stumbles, and Dr. Franklin is most displeased that the Emperor didn't tell him how fragile he was so he could monitor his condition. Franklin, however, very quickly comes to admire the man, and is trusted with the delivery of his message of peace to G'Kar.

G'Kar, who is wearing an absolutely lavish uniform today, I must note, takes the news well. He instantly feels regret over his previous decision to kill Turhan, and questions the road that's led him down this path. Perhaps there is the slightest sliver of hope for peaceful Narn-Centauri relations going forward. Seeing Londo at the Zocalo, he buys him a drink and boasts the beginning of new promises. Londo is, as the kids say back home, "legit shook." Londo, you see, has conspired to have his mysterious benefactors target the Narn colony world in Quadrant 14. The Shadows' attack goes as planned, leading to some genuinely decent CG battle stuff that showcases their utter combat superiority. The Narn don't stand a chance in hell here.

So it goes without saying that Londo feels incredibly awkward, and guilty, and shocked, when G'Kar extends his hand in friendship. Londo has a restless sleep, flashing forward to his old vision of he and G'Kar with their hands wrapped around one-another's throats to the death. He also flashes to himself, on his own world, seeing Shadow ships flying menacingly overhead. He's making one hell of a bed right now, and he's lying in it left, right, and center. It's an ugly affair.

While that ugly affair is carrying on, Garibaldi's Spidey-Sense activates when another man in black appears on the station. This is generally a bad thing, especially when one chooses to stalk someone. In this case, the black-clad man has chosen Garibaldi himself as his stalk victim, and our Michael notices fast. The man is taken into custody, and calls himself a Ranger. He surprises the security chief by telling him he has been sent to deliver a message directly to him. Garibaldi side-eyes him, pops the little piece of museum visitor's center $2 crystal into a spare computer port, and...

A wild Sinclair appeared! Garibaldi used doubt! It's not very effective... Foe Sinclair used revelation! It's super effective! Garibaldi whited out!

Sinclair explains that the Rangers are his own personal army. Their numbers are small, but they're growing. A darkness is coming and he went to Minbar for more than just the officially-released statement. In fact, he's there to mount a defense against that coming darkness, but he can't speak further for now. This is when I'm reminded that I said I'd start reading "To Dream In A City of Sorrows" for the first time, so I'd best get to that soon. Sinclair of course neglects to note that there have been scattered Rangers in the background in multiple previous episodes, because J. Michael Straczynski is a clever dude when he wants to be. Anyway, the scene is one heck of a shocker, and Garibaldi delivers the gist of what he's learned straight to Sheridan and Ivanova but keeps a promise Sinclair implores him to make: specifically, he can't mention the Rangers, their plan, or basically anything involving Sinclair to anyone else. (Delenn gets a message from Sinclair, too, but the episode cuts before we learn what he has to say to her.)

Just before Turhan dies -- and right as Refa orders his assassins back on Centauri Prime to take care of Malachi as well -- Londo hears the Emperor's final words. He lies and makes claim that he'd wished he and Refa well, but in truth the man has told him they're both doomed. Shortly beforehand, Kosh grants Turhan his wish to see a Vorlon, but when asked "how will this end?" the enigmatic ambassador has just two memorable words: "in fire."

It's a fitting analysis. G'Kar, having learned of the Centauri attack on Quadrant 14, breaks into a fit of rage. He marches with hateful purpose toward Londo's quarters, where he's stopped by Sheridan's intuition. He sits against a wall, despondent, until he eventually agrees to attend an emergency council meeting. Sheridan bluffs his way into ensuring the safe passage of Quadrant 14's too-few survivors, hoping it will pave the way to peace. G'Kar, however, announces that the Narn have officially declared war on the Centauri. And who can blame them, after today? The line has been crossed, the pain too great to bear.

It remains to be seen whether the Babylon Project's last, best hope for peace has failed.

 

[JeffZero]

Man, our thread's close to dead lately! Maybe the B5 renaissance fever has already faded. Well, no matter; I'll try to keep this going and I look forward to updates from other viewers when time permits. I'll be watching another episode or two tonight and doing further write-ups tomorrow!

 

[jb1234]

"A Voice in the Wilderness"

B5's first two parter feels like sixty minutes of material stretched out to eighty, especially in its first part. Fortunately, once it finally gets going, it reaches a satisfying, albeit familiar climax. I've probably (definitely) seen too much sci-fi but large stretches of the main plot felt very predictable, up to the guest star of the week(s) being needed to take over the role as the planet's guardian. Granted, who else could it be? Certainly not Londo, who is on this mission seemingly only so Delenn owes him a favor at a later date. Not very elegant writing there.

The sub plots also felt a tad by the book. Who didn't see Garibaldi's ex move on and get married? It's one of the oldest cliches in the book. At last it served to humanize him a bit more (and I hope they move on from his behavior towards Talia. I think JMS is playing it for laughs but I'm just creeped out).

Franke's action music continues to be insipid. He stacks diminished chords on top of each other like a first-year music student. It's one of the laziest ways to build tension and it completely takes me out of the show. I can only speculate on what a better composer (even with the same budget) could have done with this type of canvas. A shame we'll never know.

Star Trek alumni watch: Ron Canada, portraying the type of character he pretty much always portrays.

 

[SiegfriedFM]

Still following, I want to see what you think about the rest.

 

[BlackLagoon]

Man, our thread's close to dead lately! Maybe the B5 renaissance fever has already faded.

Sigh, had a big reply in the works and then I came down with something nasty which kind of derailed everything...

 

[Pegasus Actual]

Man, our thread's close to dead lately! Maybe the B5 renaissance fever has already faded. Well, no matter; I'll try to keep this going and I look forward to updates from other viewers when time permits. I'll be watching another episode or two tonight and doing further write-ups tomorrow!

I'm happy to contribute my cynical takes on occasion... I'm on 3x18, Walkabout right now, so here are some out of order disjointed thoughts....

Spoiler

I appreciate that they built the Franklin stim plot over time and whatnot... but him going walkabout is just lame. The plot with the new and dying girlfriend is pretty much a waste of time.

The White Star and G'Kar stuff isn't bad, Garibaldi pushes him to get his boys in the fight. The only negative here is Lyta's mind-war face... seriously, this shit is like a rung below Deanna Troi, and she was ridiculous!

War Without End came right before this. Pretty good. Part 1 was a touch hokey but part 2 pays off very nicely.

Since it's a pet peeve of mine and an argument I've been having here, I'll just say that I can't help but notice that everyone went off on stupid Starfury errands again this season. Sheridan getting a tour of the new Starfuries and just happening upon Bester... Not that offensive but stupidly convenient. Garibaldi going on Sector 14 Starfury duty... feels like a bit of a stretch still. But Ivanova takes the cake here... she bails on B5 duty for the big battle in Severed Dreams to hop in a Starfury, then gets blowed up real good because she's gawking at the battle instead of doing stuff. Jesus.

Severed Dreams was good, but not amazing. Even though it seems to be the best episode of the show just googling some ratings. The episodes immediately after were pretty weak. The Vir episodes especially. Vir being goofy and looking forward to making his fiance... less genocidal was really awkward considering she gleefully admitted to slaughtering Narns by the dozens.

Morden vs Kosh was good even though the Idira poisoning thing was kind of lame. Londo isn't that dumb generally.

I'm still generally enjoying my rewatch there's just a little too much crap in between all the good stuff.

 

[Man God]

What do you want?

 

[JeffZero]

Write-up tonight!

"A Voice in the Wilderness"

B5's first two parter feels like sixty minutes of material stretched out to eighty, especially in its first part. Fortunately, once it finally gets going, it reaches a satisfying, albeit familiar climax. I've probably (definitely) seen too much sci-fi but large stretches of the main plot felt very predictable, up to the guest star of the week(s) being needed to take over the role as the planet's guardian. Granted, who else could it be? Certainly not Londo, who is on this mission seemingly only so Delenn owes him a favor at a later date. Not very elegant writing there.

The sub plots also felt a tad by the book. Who didn't see Garibaldi's ex move on and get married? It's one of the oldest cliches in the book. At last it served to humanize him a bit more (and I hope they move on from his behavior towards Talia. I think JMS is playing it for laughs but I'm just creeped out).

Franke's action music continues to be insipid. He stacks diminished chords on top of each other like a first-year music student. It's one of the laziest ways to build tension and it completely takes me out of the show. I can only speculate on what a better composer (even with the same budget) could have done with this type of canvas. A shame we'll never know.

Star Trek alumni watch: Ron Canada, portraying the type of character he pretty much always portrays.

Yeah, Ron Canada gonna Ron Canada. I love that he seems to play the same character everywhere he goes and it somehow never gets old. Londo's thing here, I highlighted it in my write-up as well, but I think you said it best: it's inelegant. And I mentioned Garibaldi being kind of creepy with the Talia stuff, too, so I'm glad we're in agreement. I generally really like Garibaldi, but this bit is him in worst form. Thankfully it withers away quickly (and doesn't even get referenced from like 1x04 until this episode).

Still following, I want to see what you think about the rest.

Yay!

Sigh, had a big reply in the works and then I came down with something nasty which kind of derailed everything...

Oh man, I'm sorry to hear it. I hope you feel better soon.

I'm happy to contribute my cynical takes on occasion... I'm on 3x18, Walkabout right now, so here are some out of order disjointed thoughts....

Spoiler

I appreciate that they built the Franklin stim plot over time and whatnot... but him going walkabout is just lame. The plot with the new and dying girlfriend is pretty much a waste of time.

Spoiler

I can comment on this part, at least. I agree that that's a rough subplot. I can't remember much, as is customary of anything I haven't reached yet in my rewatch, but I doubt I'll do a 180 on finding this third-season stint less than stellar once I get there.

What do you want?

You are a persistent Man God, aren't you? Alright! I'll tell you! What do I want? I want a new show. I want great music to accentuate sterling cinematography. I want to hear the cries of joy as Susan Ivanova says things snarkily; I want to console the whimpers of the sad ones when they cry out that G'Kar was wronged. What do I want? I want things back to the way they were. I want Babylon 5 to be big again!