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[ilikeme]

Just finished The Quality of Mercy. June Lockheart as Dr. Laura Rosen was superb. I was bawling when Franklin called her 'Doctor'. 😭

And Lennier's martial arts skills. 😆

It was nice to have an episode with less connection to the main plot after the recent revelation-heavy episodes. I love goofy Londo-fun and The Good Doctor stories. 😊

This might actually be one of my favourite episodes. Dr. Rosen telling that mean old murdery man what's what is the best scene. And the Babylon wiki entry for Lake's syndrome is awesome. 'Laura Rosen had the disease until it was cured by the Alien Healing Machine.'

All hail the Alien Healing Machine! 🕊

'I did the necessary thing. That is not always the same as the right thing.' 🤧

 

[JeffZero]

"The Quality of Mercy" is an episode which has garnered a fair bit of flak over the years. It's also an episode I couldn't remember the first thing about before rewatching it. This combination of knowing and not-knowing made for an exciting encore. While the final product is less than stellar, there's a good bit of heart here. I have a few structural grievances with "Mercy", and they really hold it back, but it's an eminently watchable episode that never succumbs to too much cheese -- a nigh-fatal flaw with several standalone chapters preceding it. This despite featuring a life-transferring super-tech medical artifact a bad guy who is pure evil and never even feigns otherwise, and a purple CG tentacle cheating at poker.

Londo's having a chat with a government official back on Centauri Prime who wants him to work harder toward building diplomatic relations with the other races. Londo decides to apply this advice by way of conning Lennier. The results speak for themselves: by the end of this episode, many of Lennier's more defining aspects are written. What started with Garibaldi's motorcycle in "Eyes" takes on greater prominence here. He's talkative about cultural and scientific practices, opinionated about religious doctrine, nervous around genders for which there is an attraction, and somewhat oblivious to the finer details of the world around him.

Judge Ombus Wellington, who on a previous occasion had nearly been eaten by an alien masquerading as Ambassador Kosh, is passing judgment on a man named Karl Mueller. Mueller is interesting in that he doesn't have a sympathetic bone in his body. He is completely terrible. Mueller is eventually scheduled for a brain wipe, which brings Talia into the story. Talia suffers serious effects when she scans him, learning that Mueller is responsible for the deaths of dozens of people or more. She'll also receive the episode's single best scene when she speaks with Garibaldi about Mueller's mental state. This entire scene is well-written and well-acted between the two of them, highlighted by the following line:

"You once said you'd bet good money he'd killed before. You would not have lost."

Woefully enough, however, Talia's input in the story abruptly ends here. She's built up as a counter figure to the despicable Mueller, and her controversial brain wipe procedure is talked-up and touted. As of her painful mental encounter with the man, she is given a personal stake in seeing him brought to justice. Garibaldi, too, is built into the plot, if for no other reason than wanting to see the scum brought down. Mueller murdered a couple of his guards, after all, and he ain't happy. Yet neither of them have significant input in the plot from this point forward, leaving us with a somewhat limp Talia engagement which could have been interesting.

"The Quality of Mercy" juggles three plots. Dr. Franklin is given his most sizable contribution since "Believers", and while the argument can be made that his content is a bit of a rehash -- he spends his first few scenes strongly doubting the healing power of an alien artifact guest character Laura Rosen has been using Downbelow -- this is still a decent outing for him. Richard Biggs continues to impress, working alongside TV legend June Lockhart in a battle of wits until he realizes the error of his ways and seeks to understand the artifact rather than insult its usage. There's a bit of an ongoing flirtation with Rosen's daughter, too, but it's of no import. It's just flavoring, and it's reasonably effective. Rosen is an interesting character; she's been diagnosed with a painful disease and she's passing her life energy bit by bit in order to treat others with what little time she has left. This is all pretty interesting stuff, but it's contaminated by the literary mistake made in the Mueller story.

You see, the minute Talia and Garibaldi are out of the picture by way of Mueller's escape, he makes a mad blitz to Rosen, causing the two serious plotlines to intersect. Mueller uses Rosen's daughter as leverage and forces the elderly woman to use the machine on him to heal his arm, which Garibaldi had injured in his escape. It's all a bit too convenient a come-together, like an early TNG episode, and the climax involves Dr. Rosen pressing the red button -- oh no, not the red button! -- in order to trick and kill Mueller. Ombuds Wellington pronounces her not guilty and her illness is even healed as a result of the artifact, tying too neat a bow on a letdown finale to an intriguing couple of ideas.

But that's OK. Nothing "The Quality of Mercy" does ever breaks it apart completely. It's mostly a throwaway fluff episode that doesn't pretend to be otherwise. What's more, it gives us this. The Misadventures of Young Lennier and Wry Mollari is a C-Plot that's not to be missed. I've previously noted that JMS Humor either works or it doesn't. When it doesn't, it's downright embarrassing. When it does, I'm all over it. Here is a sterling case of the latter. Londo convinces Lennier to watch exotic dancers, prompting Bill Mumy to bring me to tears with his expressions. He then cons the impressionable lad into paying for his drinks. He brilliantly endures Lennier's anthropological rants (hey now, Londo, I literally went to school for anthropology, let him speak!) and sends him to the poker table, where he uses his most devious of tools -- computer-generated penises (penii, if you will) -- to win at cards. Until he's caught. That's when Lennier's roundhouse kicks come in, you see. And if you're just joining us on Babylon 5, welcome to the show. Nothing about this would have worked without Jurasik and Mumy; lesser actors would have made it as arduous as a Talia Winters inside the mind of a serial killer. Yet it works.

I've made a convenient one-two image chart to reveal the full breadth of Londo's and Lennier's Excellent Adventure, so let's close things here:

 

[JeffZero]

(And a somewhat less effective one in John Snyder, who seems to think that chewing the scenery makes up for how thinly drawn his character is.

Haha, I know. I had a blast discussing Snyder's... antics... in this one.

Babylon Squared... ah! Such a ridiculously complex episode. I remember being surprised when rewatching it because it felt so incomplete. Well, there's a pretty obvious reason for that.

No doubt. I had a blast reading some of the first-run online commentary on it the other night.

Is it bad that I'm nearing the end of my rewatch (currently episode 21 of season 4, not going to bother with season 5) yet reading that Babylon Squared writeup makes me wants to go back and watch some of those early big episodes again?

Whoo! Not bad at all. It means we're succeeding. I hope you've been enjoying your rewatch!

This thread makes me want to rewatch B5 so badly but there's just too much new stuff to catch up on. Dang it.

With the Go90 streaming, I really wish I could convince my brother or one of my friends to watch the show. It's as much a hard sell as any sci-fi show from that era though. It's not tight in terms of the episode commitment (considering most shows today aim for 10-13 eps per season as opposed to 20+) but the story does have satisfying setups and payoffs that I think are worth the full trip, even through the filler and mediocre one-offs.

B5 is a special show.

Yes, yes it is. I've found the greatest success with new fans over the years by way of "just happening" to have a really good S2/3 episode (not 4; it's just too involved at that point and there are too many spoilers abounding!) on the TV when they're around. Inevitably, anyone with an interest in space opera will turn head and ask questions, and then I'll set them up on their journey. It's a bit devious, but being a B5 ambassador has its hazards. Most people do not take to S1 too well, especially "The Gathering" which precedes it.

Of course, online talk also has its perks. We've got several people checking it out for the first time now! I think it's essentially fandom's responsibility to keep this fire alive now, because WB sure doesn't care, heh. (Well, they struck the go90 deal, at least. So that's something.)

I watched the first two episodes in S2.

It took two episodes to get all the main characters back out of their halfway houses from the S1 season finale.

The machine from Mercy appears briefly to literally deus ex machina a sickie, I expect it to go away now because too much deus.

Londo was really unhappy at getting in bed with smarmy weirdo, but still pays the debt. He looks like someone who will throw good money after bad with smarmy weirdo because he has no foresight. Time will tell if he uses the result to THINK about things.

I love the shadow ships. If I got a spaceship, I might like one of those.

Sheridan seems intelligent. His sister is a terrible person, "grieve my way, you jerk!"

I think those ships are the most visually striking in the franchise. They really leave an impact on folks. They sure scared the heck out of me when I was a kid.

It is almost inconceivable to me that the person that wrote A Late Delivery From Avalon also wrote War Without End. Just finished part 1.. cant wait to see the next one.

Ha, no kidding. Great couple of episodes you're on now.

I've always wanted to watch this show, ever since I saw a little bit of it as a kid. It was the Star Trek that was not Star Trek, which at the time seemed very exciting! 😆

So now that this thread reared its beautiful head, I've been watching the first season. I just caught up with Jeff (I love that you share Sinclair's name ❤&#65039 and will be watching The Quality of Mercy next.

I'm being a bit careful reading this thread, so mostly reading Jeff's and jb's write-ups.

Some of my thoughts so far:

I love it.

It's very cheesy and nostalgic, which is a winning combination. So I'm usually enjoying even the things that are of questionable quality. 😎 The music is the bomb, and the incredibly one-note villains they bring in are great.

I absolutely ADORED when Garibaldi and Susan called out the over-the-top villains. Garibaldi called Ari Ben Zayn 'Colonel Ben Hitler' and Ivanova said "Worst case of testosterone-poisoning I've ever seen" concerning Captain Pierce.

lol

I'm not in thinking mode right now, but I'll try to write some more focused thoughts about why I'm enjoying the hell out of this. 😇

Welcome to the station! It delights me to read that you're enjoying it so much already. You're in for a real treat in future seasons. Folks who dig S1 as much as you have are in prime position, because there's so much terrific content en route later on. The show will take on a more serialized approach as it progresses, without sacrificing the great character beats and that nostalgic identity you addressed. And it's such a wonderful premise.

Just finished The Quality of Mercy. June Lockheart as Dr. Laura Rosen was superb. I was bawling when Franklin called her 'Doctor'. 😭

And Lennier's martial arts skills. 😆

It was nice to have an episode with less connection to the main plot after the recent revelation-heavy episodes. I love goofy Londo-fun and The Good Doctor stories. 😊

This might actually be one of my favourite episodes. Dr. Rosen telling that mean old murdery man what's what is the best scene. And the Babylon wiki entry for Lake's syndrome is awesome. 'Laura Rosen had the disease until it was cured by the Alien Healing Machine.'

All hail the Alien Healing Machine! 🕊

'I did the necessary thing. That is not always the same as the right thing.' 🤧

It appears we have somewhat separate opinions on the episode, but at least we both enjoyed it! Kinda funny how we ended up voicing our thoughts on it back-to-back.

 

[BlackLagoon]

and a purple CG tentacle cheating at poker.

The tentacle was definitively a physical prop. Their CG at the time wasn't at the point where they could do something like that without it sticking out like sore thumb.

Judge Ombus Wellington, who on a previous occasion had nearly been eaten by an alien masquerading as Ambassador Kosh,

To nitpick, calling Wellington judge is redundant. His title ombudsman, or ombuds for short. To bad he kind of disappears from the series, always enjoyed the actor (though admittedly more for his role as the Bishop on Father Ted.)

And it was nice to get further peek at the justice system of B5, far to many science fiction series skimp at these sort of things. (Even if having a single indivitual sentencing a citizen to almost-execution on the spot with no appeal smacks a bit of "Yea-haw, frontier justice!", but I suppose that's the point.)

 

[JeffZero]

Haha, whoops. I have somehow gone nearly three decades without acquainting myself with the term. Now I'm on Google and there are 24.9 million search results for "ombudsman" alone.

 

[weemadarthur]

Season 2 starts with a guy named General Hague, whose actor I also recognize from Star Trek....but can't remember what he played there. I'm not crazy am I?

 

[JeffZero]

You're not!

 

[weemadarthur]

Whoa, I don't think I recognized him as a Vulcan!

But, given his other roles, I suspect Hague will turn out to be a bad guy. This is a game my spouse plays with me. That is to say, when we watch tv, my spouse will call out things like "he played a bad guy in an episode of CSI, so he's a bad guy here too!" And always seems to be right.

 

[BlackLagoon]

Haha, whoops. I have somehow gone nearly three decades without acquainting myself with the term. Now I'm on Google and there are 24.9 million search results for "ombudsman" alone.

It stems from a Old Norse term in the Viking era, so it's been around for a while.

Season 2 starts with a guy named General Hague, whose actor I also recognize from Star Trek....but can't remember what he played there. I'm not crazy am I?

Yeah, without going much into spoilers, the actor dropped out of a later B5 episode on short notice to do a similar character on Deep Space 9. Not exactly the classiest move.

 

[JeffZero]

I rewatched two MCU movies plus some anime today so I'm not sure I have it in me to do "Chrysalis". Either way, though, next write-up by tomorrow night. After that, I'm gonna rank the whole first season and provide some general thoughts.

I'm also gonna start reading To Dream in a City of Sorrows for the first time. I'll do so in tandem with Season 2 since I believe it's technically set then? It's always intrigued me. Now seems the perfect time. Expect periodic thoughts therein!

 

[jb1234]

I rewatched two MCU movies plus some anime today so I'm not sure I have it in me to do "Chrysalis". Either way, though, next write-up by tomorrow night. After that, I'm gonna rank the whole first season and provide some general thoughts.

I'm also gonna start reading To Dream in a City of Sorrows for the first time. I'll do so in tandem with Season 2 since I believe it's technically set then? It's always intrigued me. Now seems the perfect time. Expect periodic thoughts therein!

Yesssssssss. What MCU movies? I'm kinda having a bad mental health day and I want to watch B5 when I'm in an okay mood so I gotta hold off for a bit. That and "Signs and Portents" is next and I know that episode is rockin'.

 

[JeffZero]

Yesssssssss. What MCU movies? I'm kinda having a bad mental health day and I want to watch B5 when I'm in an okay mood so I gotta hold off for a bit. That and "Signs and Portents" is next and I know that episode is rockin'.

Age of Ultron and Ant-Man. I've been rewatching the film canon in the lead-up to the latest entry. Fun times. I'm still not entirely sure how to rank Ant-Man. I wish I loved it like some do. I kinda don't. :/

Anyway! I hope you have a much better day today! Definitely enjoy your return to "Signs and Portents", it is unquestionably the best episode through that point. Plus there's always such thrill in reaching the season-title episodes. What a novel concept.

 

[water_wendi]

So im in Season 4 now. Spoilers about something show in S4 opener

Spoiler

Not sure if this is a spoiler but love that they put that saucer gatling laser in it

. Also glad that the loud clashes in the opener music are gone (mostly).

Cant really comment more right now but loving the show still.

 

[BlackLagoon]

So im in Season 4 now. Spoilers about something show in S4 opener

Spoiler

Not sure if this is a spoiler but love that they put that saucer gatling laser in it

. Also glad that the loud clashes in the opener music are gone (mostly).

That's the Vree. They're a pretty blatant grey alien reference. They've been around since the first season - it's one of them that's being sued by "Mr. Flinn" in Grail for abducting his great-grandfather.

 

[Maledict]

Seeing those ships fire in S3 was such a brilliant moment in a brilliant episode. I remember coming into school the next day and discovering lots of people were watching B5 who I would never have guessed were, because everyone was talking about it.

B5 was oddly popular in the UK. Maybe because we were a bit more used to sci-fi with long running plot lines from our own cheesy shows?

 

[BlackLagoon]

B5 was oddly popular in the UK. Maybe because we were a bit more used to sci-fi with long running plot lines from our own cheesy shows?

Yeah, I remember there was a strong presence in fandom from UK folks, lots of big conventions there. And jms was a big Blake's 7 fan, and often cited it as a influence on B5.

 

[Mindlog]

General Hague > Admiral Leyton

 

[jb1234]

"Signs and Portents"

This is good but not quite the knockout that I remember from my original viewing. There's a lot of foreshadowing, a lot of ominous dread but at the same time, not a lot actually happens in the episode itself. It's all setup with the payoff largely reserved for later.

A good chunk of my problem is that I don't really care about the ongoing raider threat. Without a defined power structure and goals, they feel more like a bug to be swatted away than actual interesting antagonists. Of course, the one dude we get introduced to with an actual connection to them is blown up really good.

We do at least get to see the biggest battle scene the series has tackled to date. Unfortunately, the dated CG and lack of tension completely derails it. I felt bored during the pyrotechnics and wanted to get back to scenes of Morden pestering the ambassadors. All of those scenes were interesting in their own way but I especially enjoyed Kosh making it very clear that Morden is not welcome.

And of course, there's the Shadows. We don't learn much about them, except that their ships look really cool and their weapons pack quite a punch. As far as introducing a credible threat goes, that's a good start. Really, I take any episode seriously that shows a potent vision of the station blowing up.

So this is a teaser, basically. It promises a lot. I only remember bits and pieces of how it pays off so I'm pretty stoked.

(Unfortunately, TKO and Grail are up next so I guess I'll be waiting a while...)

 

[JeffZero]

Let this be a warning to all those who stand in my way. This is why there must always be easily-found screenshots of title cards.

"Chrysalis" closes the first season of Babylon 5 in style. It's not the very best episode of the year, but it's in the upper echelon. It starts off a bit on the weak side but every act gains emotional momentum until by hour's end I was taken in by every scene. In that sense, it's a lot like the show itself. Rough around the edges, especially early on, but as it gathers focus, it slowly but surely overtakes us. It leaves several characters in interesting positions going forward, even if one of them will seemingly vanish before the next episode. It sets up one faction of our antagonists remarkably and gives us plenty of reason to suspect the involvement of another. It's very good.

The Centauri and the Narn bicker over recent Narn aggression in Quadrant 37. Londo and G'Kar clash in the council room, and while I'll never not heap praises over how this arc develops, I must return to a prior nitpick that I wish their chemistry together were given a more regular representation this season. It's obvious they're fire whenever they share the screen, but I think we needed a bit more between them after the first batch of installments. Regardless, they're here now, and they are not happy with one-another. But more on that later. A fellow named Stephen Petrov bleeds out en route to Garibaldi, but manages to get part of his last words out: "they're going to kill him." Garibaldi goes on a detective spree to find out the who, where, and why, and crosses some shady blokes along the way to unraveling a plot to assassinate the president.

Also, Catherine Sakai exists again. And that's good, too, because Jeffrey Sinclair intends to marry her. With the benefit of hindsight, setting up Garibaldi to be Sinclair's best man and Susan to be Sakai's maid-of-honor feels a little bit strange, since neither engaged character will be aboard the station after the slight time jump in 2x01. Well, no matter. They're all happy, but Garibaldi's called in to continue his investigation. Meanwhile, Londo's commiserating with Vir, but then his shadowy unexpected ally from "Signs and Portents" dials his digits, reveals his name is Mr. Morden, and joins him in a hedge maze (can we talk about the fact that there's totally like a hedge maze on Babylon 5) to assure him that Quadrant 37 will be handled free of charge.

"I like nice men."
"I'm a nice man."

I haven't even mentioned Delenn. Out of the frakking blue, she comes to Sinclair, letting him know she knows that he knows about the time with the party (read: near-extinction war) where he straight-up blacked out (read: was abducted by Minbari and lost a piece of his memory) and she'll be in her bunk so if he wants answers he needs to come soon. Well damn, then. Sinclair won't make it, though. With Lennier by her side, she utilizes the triluminary and enters into a titular chrysalis. What will emerge? We won't know until the second season. How did J. Michael Straczynski devise a plot point involving a Metapod? Such brilliance is not to be questioned.

Quadrant 37 is indeed taken care of; a spidery, silhouette suggestion of a dark and foreboding (and oh so iconic) vessel seemingly blinks into space and annihilates the station -- and the colony -- utterly. Morden smiles, Londo feels uncomfortable, Morden smiles some more and lets Londo know he's now being spoken-of in the highest echelons of Centauri society, Londo's left upper lip twitches and he tries to deny his ambitions, Morden soothes him, Londo smiles. It's no exaggeration when I say that out of all the things this episode tackles, this is the most intriguing. Even knowing what comes next for Londo, I'm at the edge of my couch cushion. This is compelling. This is, as I have been known to say, the true beginning. This is the rise of Mollari.

Garibaldi's hunt leads him down a dangerous path. As Londo celebrates, Michael Garibaldi is shot in the back by one of his own men. He'd been warned not to interfere, but interference is one of the man's most persistent skills. Now it's cost him. We leave the season uncertain of Garibaldi's fate, and he's just shy of stopping President Santiago's death. EarthForce One (what a name) explodes, the saboteurs successful in their ploy, and the command staff of B5 is visibly shaken. Vice President Clark quickly takes the position, vowing to double down on Earth's own safety. One often wonders what such words truly mean. And G'Kar, distraught over the destruction of Quadrant 37, leaves a message for Na'Toth after leaving in search of answers. Sinclair realizes only too late -- and at Kosh's reminding -- that he's missed the opportunity to get his own answers from Delenn. Her chrysalis has begun.

Her rare holographic first edition chrysalis, at that.

We close on Sinclair willfully tuning out the political upheaval which has followed the week's events. It's the start of a new year, 2259, and "nothing's the same anymore." At the time, audiences had no idea how right he was about to be proven. With Michael O'Hare's illness in mind, JMS would need to improvise, and a new commander is about to take control of the station. With the stage now set, bigger and bolder and scarier things are about to get underway. With signs and portents upon them, the crew of Earth's last, best hope for peace is about to see the coming of shadows.

Overall first-season thoughts and a comprehensive episodic ranking coming later today.

 

[jb1234]

"TKO"

I often wonder why scripts like this are put into production. Can't the people involved see how deeply flawed they are? Both plots for "TKO" are deeply cliched and by-the-numbers, to the point where I could guess dramatic beats before they happened.

The B-story fares a little better because Claudia Christian sells the material, even if it is predictable. The boxing A-story is just a mess, revolving around a character I couldn't give two shits about and who probably won't return. The actual boxing scenes are directed statically and certainly didn't raise my pulse. And again, I didn't care about this dude so why does any of it matter?

(I did get a great deal of amusement out of how one of the recurring musical ideas here is almost identical to Giacchino's Spider-Man Homecoming theme.)

 

[JeffZero]

I'm going to include "The Gathering", so there will be 23 slots in my inaugural ranking. For future telefilms, I'll have to figure out a system on where to place them. I think I'll add "Thirdspace" to the Season 4 rankings since it takes place then chronologically. But that's not for quite a while yet, so I digress!

Season One: Signs and Portents
23. 1x14 "TKO" Incredulous narrative, ill-conceived editing, and an ironically punchable guest character drown out Ivanova's decent B-plot and nuke "TKO" from orbit.
22. 1x04 "Infection" Good for a laugh, mediocre for everything else. "Infection" is schlock.
21. Pilot "The Gathering" The story that started it all was by no means a serious contender, but the 1998 edit makes things a lot more tolerable.
20. 1x11 "Survivors" Garibaldi's a good character, but even a glimpse into his backstory can't save "Survivors" from making me feel like a gauntlet survivor for enduring it.
19. 1x02 "Soul Hunter" W. Morgan Sheppard is a class act, but there's too much early-series roughness here all-around.
18. 1x03 "Born to the Purple" I think this is an episode with artificial enjoyment gains for those familiar with its lasting repercussions. Taken on its own merits, it's somewhat below average.
17. 1x15 "Grail" This is about as high as an episode with a tentacle monster Kosh impersonator and a fellow looking for the holy grail can climb. Not without its charms.
16. 1x05 "The Parliament of Dreams" Syndicated 90s TV had a singular musical theme for all abrupt romances, and "Parliament" plays its cue boringly. G'Kar's death scare is stronger, but still not great.
15. 1x12 "By Any Means Necessary" I had a good time making fun of the bad guy. I had a less-good time elsewhere.
14. 1x07 "The War Prayer" This one takes too long to get going. Ivanova's old flame and Londo's youthful dilemma eventually go places, but the first half's a slog.
13. 1x09 "Deathwalker" Terribly cliche cackling aside, "Deathwalker" gives us an A-Plot with fun lore and world-building. Too bad about that Talia side story.
12. 1x21 "The Quality of Mercy" I liked this one more than I anticipated, but it's still merely decent. The Londo/Lennier tomfrakkery is an unexpected highlight.
11. 1x17 "Legacies" Minbari intrigue and a well-introduced Neroon makes up for some bloat and a flawed Ivanova/Talia B-Plot.
10. 1x16 "Eyes" I wrote extensively about how dreadfully-acted the villain is here, but the rest of "Eyes" is solid.
09. 1x01 "Midnight on the Firing Line" The show's first regular episode is surprisingly decent, and deftly introduces a plethora of angles.
08. 1x06 "Mind War" If "Mind War" contained a bit less clunk, it'd make a play for the top five. As it stands, it's a respectable entry that gives us our first look at Bester and the Psi Corps.
07. 1x10 "Believers" A powerful Franklin story with a vivid and memorable ending, held down by some weak acting and spotty execution in its early acts.
06. 1x18 "A Voice in the Wilderness, Part I" It's difficult to separate these two parts, and yet I have. "Part 1" takes a while to get going, and dawdles here and there, but it's still a rock-solid intriguing outing.
05. 1x08 "And the Sky Full of Stars" Somehow I even managed to sandwich an episode in-between the two-parter. "Stars" is a pretty good time, opening up Sinclair to all sorts of series-crucial questions and giving the audience our first real taste of major mystery.
04. 1x19 "A Voice in the Wilderness, Part II" I have some quibbles with Londo's development, but otherwise "Part 2" is a success. It's got a spirit of adventure I don't often identify with the show and it makes the most of it.
03. 1x22 "Chrysalis" The season finale is a sweeping affair, recovering from a middling first act and improving with each subsequent piece until it reaches an impressive crescendo toward the end. It resets the board in some ways, and sets us up for a whole new game. It opens the door for numerous arcs to truly begin, perhaps Delenn's and Londo's most of all.
02. 1x13 "Signs and Portents" The titular triumph. "Signs" would be aces were it not for a confusing prior-episode lead into the raider subplot; it's not this ep's fault, but it hurts it nevertheless. Without that, it would easily steal the first-place spotlight, because it's rich in every other way. From Morden's classic introduction to the battle and the surprise deaths of Kino and his associates, it's all golden.
01. 1x20 "Babylon Squared" A sterling sample of questions without answers, "Babylon Squared" proves that B5 is not most 90s shows. It's content to leave viewers guessing, tapping into science fiction in exciting ways.

The first season of Babylon 5 is clearly flawed but still worth watching. Reports of its abysmal quality are greatly exaggerated; I'd call the front half of the season decent to good, and the following quarter is markedly average television. Some characters are presented far more strongly than others, and the season has a noteworthy problem with several of its guest actors. Most episodes feature worryingly rough music, too. But very little here is genuinely awful, and the series successfully establishes its lore, its premise, and its early revelations. Thanks for making this journey with me, and let's take on Season Two!

(I did get a great deal of amusement out of how one of the recurring musical ideas here is almost identical to Giacchino's Spider-Man Homecoming theme.)

I liked the Ivanova story, but complained to high heaven about the editing. It kept cutting back to WALKER SMITH while she was crying. Surreally isn't a weird, but let's be frank. It was surreally, surreally ridiculous.

 

[jb1234]

I liked the Ivanova story, but complained to high heaven about the editing. It kept cutting back to WALKER SMITH while she was crying. Surreally isn't a weird, but let's be frank. It was surreally, surreally ridiculous.

Yeah, it was jarring. Ideally, her story would have been finished before the fight even started. I'm not sure what they were thinking there. This is also the first episode (for me) where it was extremely obvious the majority of the cast stayed home. I don't know how the contracts were handled but there's been several episodes where main cast members get credited but don't actually make an appearance. In "TKO", only Sinclair, Ivanova and Garibaldi are around.

 

[SiegfriedFM]

I mostly agree with that list. Still, that's nine really good episodes out of probably the roughest season. While JMS didn't write all of them, I feel that the ratio of good episodes increased along with his ratio of writing.

How about a character rating so far? It's hard to really decide based on their S1 performances, but I like all of the main cast except most of the humans. Sinclair really is too wooden, and I never were a fan of Garibaldi or Talia. Ivanova has her moments but her "I'm russian, so..." thing got old. Bester and Morden are incredible antagonists though, so creepy.

Edit: Oh, I'm forgetting Franklin when he has some of the best stories in S1.

 

[BlackLagoon]

We leave the season uncertain of Garibaldi's fate, and he's just shy of stopping President Santiago's death. EarthForce One (what a name) explodes, the saboteurs successful in their ploy, and the command staff of B5 is visibly shaken. Vice President Clark quickly takes the position, vowing to double down on Earth's own safety.

I guess it's time to air another grievance with B5, and American SF TV in general - how they often simply copy the American political system and call it a day. Because first past the post voting is objectively bad at capturing the actual nuance of public opinion, it just forces people into two big boxes with the only real argument for being "stability", and we see how well that's going in the US and UK ATM.

Strong executive presidential systems too, there's academic analysis suggesting on average they're more vulnerable to coups (a narrative which, ironically, B5 fully plays into) and they're nearly non-existent in the Democracy Index's top 20. The prospect of the whole world simply discarding their own electoral and governing traditions in favor of this is questionable, and having them not only do it but seemingly consider it a good choice is just plain absurd.

For a more realistic look at how an global Earth government might look, the EU is probably a better source of inspiration. Of course, with its large and complicated structure (two appointed presidents, two councils with reps from member country governments, an appointed commission and a proportionally elected parliament) that's probably more than most writers would like to battle with.

Her rare holographic first edition chrysalis, at that.

Hah, I think I still have a Lyta Alexander card signed by Patricia Tallman somewhere. Was rally into that card game for a while. Even applied to be a local rep for the game, but they turned me down because I was too young.

"TKO"

I often wonder why scripts like this are put into production. Can't the people involved see how deeply flawed they are?

TV works on a strict schedule (7 days of filming per episode for B5 season 1-4), once the current episode is done you have to be ready to start the next one or you're just paying an expensive cast and crew to stand around doing nothing and risk missing airing dates. On B5 in particular they tried to get the most out of the budget by having scripts finalized early so the sets and such could be built in a comfortable pace with minimal use of overtime. Sometimes this means a show has to take a hit and put something they know could use more polish into production.

I'm going to include "The Gathering", so there will be 23 slots in my inaugural ranking. For future telefilms, I'll have to figure out a system on where to place them. I think I'll add "Thirdspace" to the Season 4 rankings since it takes place then chronologically. But that's not for quite a while yet, so I digress!

It's possible to go deep down the rabbit hole on placing them, I want to start screaming when I see people suggesting newcomers watch River of Souls and Legend of the Rangers in between Objects at Rest and Sleeping in Light. Thirdspace has continuity issues anyway that makes it hard to pin down any further than "sometime after Into the Fire."

Personally, I think just going by production order is fine. Which means In the Beginning and Thirdspace at the end of season 4, and River of Souls and A Call to Arms at the end of season 5.

The first season of Babylon 5 is clearly flawed but still worth watching. Reports of its abysmal quality are greatly exaggerated; I'd call the front half of the season decent to good, and the following quarter is markedly average television.

I'll say it again, I think it improves markedly upon rewatching because you're much more aware and appreciative of the world building and set up of future plot lines

Most episodes feature worryingly rough music, too.

I would say the music improved as the show went on, but I still have a strong fondness for it even in season 1, with synthesizers and real actual melodies rather than the generic background orchestral noise that plagues so much of contemporary entertainment. Anyway, going to be fun times when when we get to the music of A Call to Arms

Spoiler

(and Crusade)

!

 

[aravuus]

Thought you were much farther in already, Jeff. I might start watching this when I'm done with Utaware-whatever, so probably tomorrow. Gonna be interesting to read your impressions after each episode.

 

[JeffZero]

EDIT: Oh, hey, I got a couple more replies while I was typing all that! I've gotta get started on work for the day, so I'll post back later today. :3

A character ranking every season, too, huh? I was talking to a couple of my friends last night and I'd planned to write one out for them, at least, since all three of us are pretty heavy into the whole inequality gig. I can try my luck at it here, too! This feels even tougher than the episode rankings, and for similar reasons -- I'm broadly familiar with the journeys these characters take because I've seen the show before, albeit a good seven or eight years ago. I'll take a crack at it!

I'm going to rank the main cast each season to keep things simple. Over time, I'll talk about secondary characters like Mr. Morden enough that I think folks will get a clear picture of where I stand with them, and when the rewatch is finished I'll do a colossal retrospective ranking which includes dozens of characters.


11. Vir Cotto simply... is. It breaks my heart to have to rank him last right now. I know how spirited a part of the show's DNA he becomes. Not to mention his actor's passing having occurred in the weeks since this thread went up. But mostly, Season One Vir is just a bumbler. A bumbler who plays with a Tiger Electronics toy in his first episode. He's not exactly great yet.

10. Na'Toth isn't around much, but her actress rather does the impossible when she is: namely, she stands toe-to-toe with Katsulas. Still, her only moments of brilliance hail from tricking a would-be assassin and (especially) contemplating asking about a girl's teeth. She just isn't developed much at all.

09. Talia Winters reverses the trend found among most of the rest of the cast, with the bulk of her powerful material found in the opening batch of episodes. Unfortunately, she rather withers away after that, consigned to weak subplots or built decently into main plots (like in "The Quality of Mercy") only to get tossed aside mid-beat.

08. Lennier is rarely-seen, but when he is around, a good time is had by all. Between his motorcycle exploits and his trip through sin with Londo, there's a lot of real humor to appreciate. But his devotion to his responsibilities is unquestionable as well.

07. Delenn is too shrouded to rate higher, too enigmatic to get a complete picture with, but entirely too captivating to slot any lower. While I believe she should have been utilized slightly more, her first-season presence is nevertheless respected.

06. Stephen Franklin is a pretty good character here in 1994, with "Believers" sticking in my mind and his brash, arrogant courage carving out a decent niche in this cast. Unfortunately, he suffers from the same problem others do -- he has a tendency to vanish into thin air several episodes at a time.

05. G'Kar, like others on this list, comes into his own later on. Right now, he's mostly cast as foil, but he has a depth to him -- as demonstrated at Sigma 957 and when he prepares for a crucial Narn holiday -- that's almost as tough to ignore as Andreas Katsulas himself.

04. Jeffrey Sinclair is better than I'd remembered. I think he makes a stronger first impression than a certain soon-to-be-introduced fellow. I really enjoy seeing him try to work out the hole in his mind, and his routine presence on the station is going to be missed.

03. Londo Mollari has a richness to him. He's more than the sum of his present-day parts, a washed-up politician with dreams of a brighter future for the fading star that is his world.

02. Michael Garibaldi recovers briskly from some early-going cartoon funk to become one of the show's most demonstrable characters. His flaws are revealed, but also his conviction. He's profoundly human.

01. Susan Ivanova is a joy to watch in the best of times and also in the worst of times. I adore her razor wit and empathize with her ability to use it as a shield. The Russia jokes do get old, but her delivery is ever-golden.

I know from prior experience this list will fluctuate over time. Characters will rise and fall. Some won't even be on the list next season. But it's a fun exercise in organizing one's thoughts and sometimes handy for spurring conversation!

 

[SiegfriedFM]

Having not recently rewatched it, I think you have a point based on the first season. The humans had most of the screentime since all the major plots hadn't really started yet.

Although Kosh has to be at the top of the list anyway. He steals every scene.

 

[Mindlog]

11. 1x17 "Legacies" Minbari intrigue and a well-introduced Neroon makes up for some bloat and a flawed Ivanova/Talia B-Plot.

Introduction and conclusion in one episode that spanned five or so years.
That little easily overlooked line I completely forgot about vaulted the episode to near the top of why Babylon 5 is Babylon 5 for me.

Bring on season 2!

 

[PedroLumpy]

Quite the trip down memory lane Jeff, thanks for the write-ups.

 

[JeffZero]

IStrong executive presidential systems too, there's academic analysis suggesting on average they're more vulnerable to coups (a narrative which, ironically, B5 fully plays into) and they're nearly non-existent in the Democracy Index's top 20. The prospect of the whole world simply discarding their own electoral and governing traditions in favor of this is questionable, and having them not only do it but seemingly consider it a good choice is just plain absurd.

I've actually thought about this before, myself. There's narrative gold locked away in the idea of writing a few books to explain how in the heck Earth rallied together behind such a thing. It's too bad new B5 media hasn't happened in, what, ten years? And even then, that was just the one DVD venture.

For a more realistic look at how an global Earth government might look, the EU is probably a better source of inspiration. Of course, with its large and complicated structure (two appointed presidents, two councils with reps from member country governments, an appointed commission and a proportionally elected parliament) that's probably more than most writers would like to battle with.

I think you hit the nail on the head here, though. It's tough writing this kind of stuff even in simpler terms. For a show that wanted to explore those themes and go places with them, the thought of tackling your proposition in the 90s TV world was probably that much scarier.

Hah, I think I still have a Lyta Alexander card signed by Patricia Tallman somewhere. Was rally into that card game for a while. Even applied to be a local rep for the game, but they turned me down because I was too young.

Aww, that's too bad! I had a few packs worth of cards as a little kid. Not sure how I came upon them. I think my grandmother bought 'em for us both. We never actually played it but I had fun with them. She raised me and when she passed away I had some stuff buried with her. Those cards were in there, alongside several of her favorite books and whatnot.

TV works on a strict schedule (7 days of filming per episode for B5 season 1-4), once the current episode is done you have to be ready to start the next one or you're just paying an expensive cast and crew to stand around doing nothing and risk missing airing dates. On B5 in particular they tried to get the most out of the budget by having scripts finalized early so the sets and such could be built in a comfortable pace with minimal use of overtime. Sometimes this means a show has to take a hit and put something they know could use more polish into production.

Indeed, indeed.

It's possible to go deep down the rabbit hole on placing them, I want to start screaming when I see people suggesting newcomers watch River of Souls and Legend of the Rangers in between Objects at Rest and Sleeping in Light. Thirdspace has continuity issues anyway that makes it hard to pin down any further than "sometime after Into the Fire."

That's just painful! Does "River of Souls" really need to happen between 5x21 and 5x22? Or can it happen a bit earlier? Oh, uh, y'know what, before I keep going, let's spoiler-tag this juuuuust in case.

Spoiler

Like, I think the only way it doesn't wreck momentum is if it happens between the Byron arc and the back half, but I don't remember it pretty much at all so I guess that's just not doable? I can't imagine telling someone to wait on "Sleeping in Light" for more Soul Hunter content though, regardless.

Personally, I think just going by production order is fine. Which means In the Beginning and Thirdspace at the end of season 4, and River of Souls and A Call to Arms at the end of season 5.

Makes sense. I'll probably watch "Thirdspace" during the

Spoiler

brief "lull between wars

since I remember that's what I did last time.

Anyway, going to be fun times when when we get to the music of A Call to Arms

Spoiler

(and Crusade)

!

I don't remember the tracks for those at all as I haven't seen either of 'em since childhood. Hype!

Thought you were much farther in already, Jeff. I might start watching this when I'm done with Utaware-whatever, so probably tomorrow. Gonna be interesting to read your impressions after each episode.

Thanks for swinging by! I hope my remaining ~100 or so (oh my lord...) write-ups are fun for you!

Having not recently rewatched it, I think you have a point based on the first season. The humans had most of the screentime since all the major plots hadn't really started yet.

Although Kosh has to be at the top of the list anyway. He steals every scene.

Introduction and conclusion in one episode that spanned five or so years.
That little easily overlooked line I completely forgot about vaulted the episode to near the top of why Babylon 5 is Babylon 5 for me.

Bring on season 2!

Heck yes! I'm gonna get started tonight and have the first write-up either before bed or early in the day tomorrow.

Quite the trip down memory lane Jeff, thanks for the write-ups.

Happy to oblige! Us B5 Lurkers have got to stand united. Can't let the show fade to obscurity just yet...!

 

[jb1234]

Are we watching Crusade, Jeff?

 

[JeffZero]

Are we watching Crusade, Jeff?

Oi, oi, oi. There's nothing I fear more than unresolved television shows, especially when they're linked to things I enjoy which feature actual closure. It is wounding. Buuuut I'm gonna try to get into the books for the first time, and there's probably a measure of closure-salvation to be found in there somewhere, so... y-y... y...

...yes, y-yes we are.

 

[jb1234]

Oi, oi, oi. There's nothing I fear more than unresolved television shows, especially when they're linked to things I enjoy which feature actual closure. It is wounding. Buuuut I'm gonna try to get into the books for the first time, and there's probably a measure of closure-salvation to be found in there somewhere, so... y-y... y...

...yes, y-yes we are.

Aw shit, haha.

 

[PedroLumpy]

Happy to oblige! Us B5 Lurkers have got to stand united. Can't let the show fade to obscurity just yet...!

Hopefully not just yet! Still a couple years away from getting my nieces and nephews watching.

Reading all this makes me want to start another DS9 rewatch too.

 

[BlackLagoon]

I've actually thought about this before, myself. There's narrative gold locked away in the idea of writing a few books to explain how in the heck Earth rallied together behind such a thing. It's too bad new B5 media hasn't happened in, what, ten years? And even then, that was just the one DVD venture.

Yeah, only thing is the B5 reboot movie jms has been trying get off the ground, though given his recent revelations about him nearly going blind over the last decade and only in the last few years getting his full sight back due to surgery, he might be in a better position to deliver on it now.

That's just painful! Does "River of Souls" really need to happen between 5x21 and 5x22? Or can it happen a bit earlier?

It's canonically set about 6 months into the new year and directly references events in 5x21, so no, it's pretty clear where it fits.

I don't remember the tracks for those at all as I haven't seen either of 'em since childhood. Hype!

For A Call to Arms and Crusade, they went ahead and got a new composer. Evan Chen, young, unseasoned and with an Asian musical background, then told him to go nuts and experiment. And, boy, he certainly did. It was a very jarring change from Franke and generated a lot of... opinions.

I... found it an acquired taste.

Oi, oi, oi. There's nothing I fear more than unresolved television shows, especially when they're linked to things I enjoy which feature actual closure. It is wounding. Buuuut I'm gonna try to get into the books for the first time, and there's probably a measure of closure-salvation to be found in there somewhere, so... y-y... y...

...yes, y-yes we are.

Yay!

We'll have to talk about viewing order, since there is no perfect way to watch it, but we'll handle that when we get to it. As for resolution, one thing to keep in mind is that just like B5, Crusade was not a show about what you thought it would be about. Though since the show's Signs and Portents and Chrysalis equivalents only exist in script form, you'll have to pay close attention to see snippets of this in the series itself.

It will of course try to fill in what we do know about where Crusade was headed, but that was in a somewhat surprising direction. I don't think any of the books went into this much, but from the bits that leaked out from the B5 theatrical film that almost happened in 2004, it sounded like it might have been intended to deal with some of the things left over from Crusade.

 

[cntr]

IIRC, B5 goes for the justification of the Earth Alliance being a post-World War III alliance, and presumably the contact with the Centauri and then the Earth-Minbari would've provided justification to deepen the alliance. They do also mention the Alliance being composed of multiple states.

It'd make sense if the coup wasn't generally supported and was instead enforced by a combination or orbital weapons and psi-corps. Wonder if the Civil War storyline was meant to have more about resistance on Earth back when it was meant to be Season 5?

 

[weemadarthur]

I watched S2 Ep3, don't remember the name. I'm being less careful about spoilers here.

This is interesting, a lot more of future setup of Mollari. It seems pretty clear that they're expecting him to become emperor, and start a war of extermination against the Narn, and maybe others.

Ivanova takes over the Drazi much slower than I expected. She had both leaders in front of her, and ...missed the boat on leadership.

Garibaldi decides he's the best man to do the security job because other people are too credulous. I'll give him that. He has been quite good at it.

Delenn doesn't show up. Given that we last left her in front of her mirror, getting used to her new appearance, I suppose she's still learning the intricacies of brushing and styling hair.

The technomancers have some fun toys and viruses, but won't even leave those behind while they bugger off during the great war? Not very civic minded. Maybe they should have walked around in disguise if they didn't want to be questioned or propositioned.

 

[infi]

I lied that the Drazi rules didn't prevent an alien leader because they were still stuck in committee.

The technomancers have some fun toys and viruses, but won't even leave those behind while they bugger off during the great war? Not very civic minded. Maybe they should have walked around in disguise if they didn't want to be questioned or propositioned.

Part of the Technomage trilogy of books features what happened in this episode but from the Technomage perspective. There is a reason why they all show up on B5 at once and make a big show of leaving instead of just quietly sneaking off. They are interesting fellows the Technomages.

Interesting to note that the Technomage leader who appeared on B5 was the teacher/master to Galen from Crusade.

 

[ag-my001]

Mind giving a spoiler tag summary for those of us without the books?

 

[infi]

Mind giving a spoiler tag summary for those of us without the books?

Spoiler

The Technomages use a mixture of tricks and technology to do what they do. The most advanced piece of tech they use is an implant that allows them to do insane stuff. The implant was made by the shadows because they wanted to use the techno mages as weapons but the Mages didn't want this. They decided to leave known space and do it in a very public way so the Shadows could see, that's why they chose B5. The Shadows do end up attacking and destroying the Technomage fleet shortly after they leave B5 but the Technomages had planned on this and weren't on the fleet and had gone in to hiding together.

 

[Pegasus Actual]

I'm almost done with season 2. I haven't rewatched the show in quite a while.

In general it's aged kinda poorly. A lot of the standalone stuff feels dated even by 90s standards. It feels like TNG S1. And all the lame 80s gangsters from Down Below and whatnot who look like they came from a straight to VHS ripoff of The Terminator.

The cropped widescreen effect shots are just awful. I remember back when I initially watched it, when Sci-Fi channel got the rights, and they were hyping up the widescreen version. I think they initially ended up just cropping the 4:3 across the board which was just the stupidest shit. This is almost worse as it keeps cutting between native and cropped. I appreciate that they tried to be forward thinking but it looks like ass.

It's really depressing watching this show. Turns out I started my rewatch on the day Stephen Furst died. What the hell. It's already bad enough when I was watching scenes with 3 or 4 dudes that died too young. Fucking cursed.

JMS had a plan and his "escape hatches" (i.e. what do I do if this actor leaves) and it shows.

I've got to disagree, he mostly just remakes the same character over and over again when he has to. Or I guess if there's alien makeup involved just recast. I mean, it's fine, it's the reality of making a show like this but it's weird when JMS gets on his high horse and claims things were planned out when they really weren't.

The main cast isn't very good. The leads are mediocre. Ivanova is just OK. Garibaldi is just OK. Obviously G'Kar and Londo are the most engaging actors and characters but they're not actually around all that much. An episode here and there. This show is really strange in how many people are stuffed into the main credits. Talia Winters and Warren Keffer spring to mind with really light screen time.

JMS dialogue is also just super corny. Sorry, "just one word", "cringeworthy".

And the Lords of the Rings references are a bit much. G'Kar quoting Gandalf... c'mon. It didn't land back in the day as I was never into the books and the movies weren't out yet, but nowadays when I see it... well... *groan*

In a world where serialized storytelling in TV is almost standard I'm not sure B5 is as special as it once was.

On the bright side I think I'm just starting to get into the really good stuff. And I have been enjoying my rewatch, it's just mostly negatives that have jump out at me as worth mentioning.

 

[JeffZero]

Sorry I'm running behind, ladies and gents! Haven't had a chance to watch 2x01 yet. Hoping to start it up tonight. I got invited to an earlier showing for the new MCU flick than I'd anticipated and now I'm scrambling to make up lost work hours.

 

[teiresias]

Decided I'd rewatch, though I'm not sticking to a schedule. I watched the show all the way through for the first time a few years back when it was still on Netflix (maybe five years), so seeing what I can pick up in earlier seasons now that I know what happens (generally, can't remember some details).

Does anyone know if the song at the very beginning of "Born to the Purple" is an actual song or was it just written for that scene for the show?

 

[BlackLagoon]

I've got to disagree, he mostly just remakes the same character over and over again when he has to. Or I guess if there's alien makeup involved just recast. I mean, it's fine, it's the reality of making a show like this but it's weird when JMS gets on his high horse and claims things were planned out when they really weren't.

Except that he doesn't. I mean, for starters you can't honestly mean that you think shell-shocked has-been Sinclair and confident war hero Sheridan are just the same character?

And even looking at some "easier" targets, Laurel Takashima and Ivanova did have some similarities, but they had significantly different backgrounds and the former would have played quite a different role in the arc.

Spoiler

(Takashima was intended to be the one with the sleeper personality, and would have been the one to shoot Garibaldi in the back in Chrysalis for example.)

Going further to Lochley, being another female military officer she did have some common features to her two predecessors, but again her background and role in the series was different. She was the new kid in the neighbourhood and trying to get used to a completely different kind of job, and did not have any latent telepathic ability or a massive amount of emotional baggage that would have lead her into the arms of Byron. So instead we got plan B which moved a good chunk of Ivanova's story in season 5 onto Lyta.

The main cast isn't very good. The leads are mediocre. Ivanova is just OK. Garibaldi is just OK. Obviously G'Kar and Londo are the most engaging actors and characters but they're not actually around all that much. An episode here and there. This show is really strange in how many people are stuffed into the main credits. Talia Winters and Warren Keffer spring to mind with really light screen time.

It's an ensemble cast. The characters appear as needed by the story. (Well, except for Keffer, who was forced upon the show because the executives wanted a "hotshot pilot" character in the cast.)

And while admittedly some of the acting isn't that great at the start - Jerry Doyle was barely an actor at the time he was cast - personally I think they're all doing a solid job by the second season, and they pretty much are those characters by the end.

JMS dialogue is also just super corny. Sorry, "just one word", "cringeworthy".

That's a debate as old as time. JMS is likes stylized, classic theater influenced dialogue. It is what it is. I quite enjoy it.

 

[JeffZero]

Welcome one, welcome all, to the start of Season Two! I'm back after a brief delay and let me tell you, things sure have changed on B5. It's been just 8 days since President Santiago was assassinated, and Jeffrey Sinclair was called off-station 3 days later. We begin the season premiere with some dude on a ship called the Agamemnon. He's its captain, and he's just completed a mission to scare off some plebs, and he seems satisfied with the results. He gets a call from one General Hague, who tells him a certain Minbari ship has turned up again, and also, he's now in command of Babylon 5. Wait, what? Who is this guy? Where is Sinclair? What is happening?

Well alrighty then. Let's all give a warm welcome to Captain John Sheridan, who is definitely not Commander Jeffrey Sinclair. It seems Sinclair was hastily reassigned, and he's now serving on the Minbari homeworld. We don't see him anywhere in this episode, which must have raised alarm bells back in 1995. The true story of O'Hare's departure is a sad one, but the character will absolutely be given proper treatment going forward. For now, this is all so sudden, but the writing is smoothing it over adequately. Sheridan is instantly established as not so akin to Sinclair, although they both fought in the war. Sheridan presently has no Minbari compatriots like Sinclair did, and the Minbari sure as hell ain't happy he's here as they were with Sinclair. Also, Sheridan likes showers and oranges. Not necessarily in that order -- he was very enthusiastic about the oranges.

Early on, Susan narrates a segment establishing that Garibaldi is still in a coma and G'Kar is still elsewhere. There's a goofy scene with some alien politicians shouting at one-another in a line through the Zocalo and Susan telling them off. This has become her life, but it's spiced-up by Sheridan's arrival and a Minbari who they suspect is Grey Council warning them of another Minbari who leads the so-called "ghost" ship on its mission of revenge. Speaking of Minbari, how 'bout some more? What if you had just taken over the station -- heck, what if you were just introduced as a character -- and Lennier asks you to sit down so he can reveal that humans are receiving Minbari souls as a part of their reincarnation belief? What if Lennier even told you the reason the Battle of the Line ended as it did because Sinclair was abducted and the Grey Council discovered this fact? What if all of this happened to you within 20 minutes of your first spoken lines? And to top it all off, what if you had a good luck speech for every new post you're given, and you're unable to complete it? What if that happened, too?

"Points of Departure" asks us to buy into all of this happening very rapidly, and it then requires us to follow Sheridan, to learn of his battle wit and ability to read people. He boldly predicts the ship's suicide mission, orders B5's Zeta Squadron (including a guy named Warren Keffer; pay attention, this isn't important) to stand down in front of enemy fighters, and averts a major political crisis by refusing to play into the enemy's hand. It's no wonder the guy has his doubts about taking command at the end of the episode. His first day has been a whirlwind of action, vengeance, and religious revelation.

The truly remarkable thing about this episode is that it accomplishes most of its tasks confidently. In fact, the directing is better than most of the first season's outings. There's a conviction in every scene which wasn't always there earlier on. For all the shakeup that newcomer John Sheridan is causing, it all feels carefully-crafted. I do contend that it feels a bit hollow for Lennier to reveal such pivotal information about one of the show's central mysteries abruptly after Sinclair's reassignment. Perhaps it's a gut reaction to feel that the Sinclair character got shafted. But there's a hindsight benefit here. Knowing in advance how things will go down narratively makes it an easier pill to swallow, even if I can't shake the feeling the script's structure is a little sloppy. But otherwise, "Points" tells a solid dramatic story whilst juggling the gargantuan task of bringing us our new leader.

We maintain a few big hooks in the lead-up to the next episode. Delenn is still in her chrysalis state, her goal and "final form" presently unknown. Michael's life still hangs in the balance. G'Kar's whereabouts remain unknown. We haven't even seen Londo, either. "Points of Departure" cleverly triples down on just a couple of core characters, Sheridan and Ivanova, at basically everyone else's expense. It's a gambit that pays off, but it leaves me hungry to check in with the rest of the cast. (There's also some dude named Keffer hanging around with the "rest of the command staff" at dinner, but I've already parenthetically informed you to please pay him no need. Forget everything you thought you knew about opening credits sequences.)

 

[JeffZero]

Yeah, only thing is the B5 reboot movie jms has been trying get off the ground, though given his recent revelations about him nearly going blind over the last decade and only in the last few years getting his full sight back due to surgery, he might be in a better position to deliver on it now.

I really need to get more active on twitter again. I would like to follow JMS' news updates and that seems like a good place to do so? Anyway, let's talk about that proposed B5 reboot movie a little bit. Spoiler tags if necessary, as always, of course. In my mind, B5 would be better-served rebooted onto the small screen. I'm not sure about a feature-length adaptation. What is his general idea here, exactly? I can't recall. I remember him wanting to do the

Spoiler

Telepath War, I think?

...as a movie or something. But now it's a total reboot concept, right?

For A Call to Arms and Crusade, they went ahead and got a new composer. Evan Chen, young, unseasoned and with an Asian musical background, then told him to go nuts and experiment. And, boy, he certainly did. It was a very jarring change from Franke and generated a lot of... opinions.

I... found it an acquired taste.

Oh boy.

We'll have to talk about viewing order, since there is no perfect way to watch it, but we'll handle that when we get to it. As for resolution, one thing to keep in mind is that just like B5, Crusade was not a show about what you thought it would be about. Though since the show's Signs and Portents and Chrysalis equivalents only exist in script form, you'll have to pay close attention to see snippets of this in the series itself.

It will of course try to fill in what we do know about where Crusade was headed, but that was in a somewhat surprising direction. I don't think any of the books went into this much, but from the bits that leaked out from the B5 theatrical film that almost happened in 2004, it sounded like it might have been intended to deal with some of the things left over from Crusade.

Cool, I'm looking forward to having that discussion with you. I wish that 2004 flick happened. :/

I watched S2 Ep3, don't remember the name. I'm being less careful about spoilers here.

This is interesting, a lot more of future setup of Mollari. It seems pretty clear that they're expecting him to become emperor, and start a war of extermination against the Narn, and maybe others.

Ivanova takes over the Drazi much slower than I expected. She had both leaders in front of her, and ...missed the boat on leadership.

Garibaldi decides he's the best man to do the security job because other people are too credulous. I'll give him that. He has been quite good at it.

Delenn doesn't show up. Given that we last left her in front of her mirror, getting used to her new appearance, I suppose she's still learning the intricacies of brushing and styling hair.

The technomancers have some fun toys and viruses, but won't even leave those behind while they bugger off during the great war? Not very civic minded. Maybe they should have walked around in disguise if they didn't want to be questioned or propositioned.

I'm right behind you! I'll keep your thoughts in mind once I get there.

And all the lame 80s gangsters from Down Below and whatnot who look like they came from a straight to VHS ripoff of The Terminator.

Haha, this much I agree with, at least. It happens often.

Decided I'd rewatch, though I'm not sticking to a schedule. I watched the show all the way through for the first time a few years back when it was still on Netflix (maybe five years), so seeing what I can pick up in earlier seasons now that I know what happens (generally, can't remember some details).

Does anyone know if the song at the very beginning of "Born to the Purple" is an actual song or was it just written for that scene for the show?

Hmm, good question. Hopefully one of our resident B5 experts like BlackLagoon or 4Tran will know.

 

[Pegasus Actual]

Except that he doesn't. I mean, for starters you can't honestly mean that you think shell-shocked has-been Sinclair and confident war hero Sheridan are just the same character?

Spoiler

Well he just kinda spun-off large chunks of Sinclair's arc to Sheridan. Otherwise they're not so different. Shell-shocked I guess but after learning what happened to him he seemed kinda over it. As for has been, they just kinda flopped the aspect of Earth not liking Sinclair all that much to the Minbari not liking Sheridan. And Delenn is slobbering over Sheridan after talking to him like 4 times anyway so meh.

And even looking at some "easier" targets, Laurel Takashima and Ivanova did have some similarities, but they had significantly different backgrounds and the former would have played quite a different role in the arc.

Spoiler

(Takashima was intended to be the one with the sleeper personality, and would have been the one to shoot Garibaldi in the back in Chrysalis for example.)

Spoiler

Is that a good example though? So they made someone nobody cared about at all shoot Garibaldi. Which had very little impact on me as a viewer. I literally cannot remember anything about that guy beyond him making EVIL FACE a bunch. And I finished the first season like a week ago.

Spoiler

Going further to Lochley, being another female military officer she did have some common features to her two predecessors, but again her background and role in the series was different. She was the new kid in the neighbourhood and trying to get used to a completely different kind of job, and did not have any latent telepathic ability or a massive amount of emotional baggage that would have lead her into the arms of Byron. So instead we got plan B which moved a good chunk of Ivanova's story in season 5 onto Lyta.

Spoiler

I don't remember anything interesting about Lochley, we'll see when I get to S5 I guess. But it went from woman second... to woman second... to woman second... except this time she's technically in command because Sheridan is President of Whatever now. Moving a couple of characters around for the awful Byron plot is hardly a big deal or a masterstroke.

That's my point, it's all fine I guess but people act like he did some sort of amazing job as if you'd never know it wasn't the original plan. And that's just ridiculous. The Sinclair/Sheridan stuff is pretty obvious. Then you have stuff like Talia getting telepath Super Powers from what's-his-face oh wait Talia is leaving here is Lyta again and remember here's a clip of her getting some Vorlon magic and now she's going to be the super telepath... I'm not really to it yet anyway so it's all a bit hazy but the Telepath War stuff is all in books anyway and really fizzles out as far as the actual show is concerned.

It's an ensemble cast. The characters appear as needed by the story. (Well, except for Keffer, who was forced upon the show because the executives wanted a "hotshot pilot" character in the cast.)

Were the executives really all that wrong though? Aside from the fact that JMS did little to nothing with the character... some recurring and main cast Starfury pilots would have been a good thing in my opinion. It would cut down on the silliness of critical station personnel constantly taking the things out for a spin, and would offer more interesting combat scenes. Having a fairly robust roster of fighter pilots helped the BSG reboot in that regard immensely (admittedly I'm a bit of a fanboy there).

And while admittedly some of the acting isn't that great at the start - Jerry Doyle was barely an actor at the time he was cast - personally I think they're all doing a solid job by the second season, and they pretty much are those characters by the end.

It feels to me like really only the 4 top Earth Force characters really get main character treatment. And I wouldn't call any of those actors outright good. I find myself just waiting for some of the good actors to show up in certain episodes.

That's a debate as old as time. JMS is likes stylized, classic theater influenced dialogue. It is what it is. I quite enjoy it.

I didn't even realize it was a debate. I thought everyone agreed that JMS could have used a couple of people to clean up his scripts.

 

[SiegfriedFM]

You have a point with the transferred storylines.

Spoiler

Anna Sheridan was clearly picking up where Catherine would have gone

. But overall I preferred all the new characters over the old ones, so...

 

[ag-my001]

Speaking of the Sinclair/Sheridan trapdoor stuff (lots of Season 3 spoilers):

Spoiler

When did the Sinclair/Valen stuff get decided on? I recall reading that the original plan was for Sinclair to bring Babylon 4 forward in time to replace 5 after the Shadows destroyed it (fulfilling the "fire" prophecy). Was it just a last minute thing of "the station had to go somewhere, and we never said which Minbari soul he had, let's go nuts"? I mean, it does work out very nicely, and JMS had a year or so to stew on it, but I always wondered how that compared to the original vision.

Was the phrase "Minbari not born of Minbari" used before season 3, or was that planted in later episodes to make Sinclair = Valen seem better planned out?

 

[BlackLagoon]

Apologies to Pegasus, but I'll leave your reply to tomorrow.

I really need to get more active on twitter again. I would like to follow JMS' news updates and that seems like a good place to do so? Anyway, let's talk about that proposed B5 reboot movie a little bit. Spoiler tags if necessary, as always, of course. In my mind, B5 would be better-served rebooted onto the small screen. I'm not sure about a feature-length adaptation. What is his general idea here, exactly? I can't recall. I remember him wanting to do the

Spoiler

Telepath War, I think?

...as a movie or something. But now it's a total reboot concept, right?

The idea is that Warner Bros. owns the series, but back when he sold it to them he managed to convince them to let him retain the feature film rights. So since WB isn't interested in doing anything with the franchise, a movie is really the only option available to him. But then he has to put together the financing without studio backing, which is far from easy.

And, yeah, since he left the newsgroups, Twitter and Facebook seems to be the best way to keep up with him.

I wish that 2004 flick happened. :/

I was apparently very close. The script was done, casting calls had gone out, studio space had been reserved, a director was lined up...

You have a point with the transferred storylines.

Spoiler

Anna Sheridan was clearly picking up where Catherine would have gone

. But overall I preferred all the new characters over the old ones, so...

(Season 2 spoilers)

Spoiler

There is no way for the Anna story to be a straight transfer from Catherine since Morden had already been introduced. Anna and Morden being on the same expedition is pretty central part of that plot, and having Catherine just go missing or something at Z'Ha'Dum would be a much, much weaker story.

Also jms at one point said that if Sinclair had remained, "the Shadowman tie probably would've gone to either Keffer or Garibaldi."

If anything, Catherine was a reused plot thread from Takashima. It never made it to the screen, but she was described by jms on GEnie in 92 as having a "long-standing relationship with an off-world mapper who works for the E.A., but is gone quite a lot of the time."

Speaking of the Sinclair/Sheridan trapdoor stuff (lots of Season 3 spoilers):

Spoiler

When did the Sinclair/Valen stuff get decided on? I recall reading that the original plan was for Sinclair to bring Babylon 4 forward in time to replace 5 after the Shadows destroyed it (fulfilling the "fire" prophecy). Was it just a last minute thing of "the station had to go somewhere, and we never said which Minbari soul he had, let's go nuts"? I mean, it does work out very nicely, and JMS had a year or so to stew on it, but I always wondered how that compared to the original vision.

Spoiler

Yeah, this is stuff from his original plan from the 80s or early 90s, which he released with the script books. It's hard to know if this was the exact plan still when the show went into production, but there are enough little questionable hand-waves regarding Valen and B^2 -> War Without End to see that something changed. Hard to say what though.

If we are to take jms at his word though (even though this was a partial lie of omission to cover up O'Hare's illness), he did come to the conclusion that the story arc needed some reworking as he were winding down season 1 and starting to plan out season 2. So things were presumably going to change regardless, even if O'Hare had stayed on.