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I honestly don't see how Sony should be worried. More and more Japanese publishers are starting to greenlight games with a global mindset and PS4 and steam can't be ignored outside Japan. Switch has a good chance of getting a lot of ports but I don't see any publisher ignoring Sony unless Nintendo is working with them ala platinum games like wonderful 101/bayonetta etc...
Principate
Saint Titanfall
I mean.a large portion of English words are French. So in this case it's not too much of a difference.Well, portmanteau isn't actually an English word, it's a French one, so you're all good
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So, potentially big week for Switch, huh? Was expecting something closer to 50k than 100k, so pleasant surprise. Looking forward to official data.
Refreshment.01
Member
As a console manufacturer and publisher with a game console in such a high demand that sells everything been made. Wouldn't make sense to enforce bundles of the 1st party software that's not moving as much units?
For example, including digital codes of Snipper Clips or 1 2 Switch at a discounted price. This makes the baseline of the console's sale price higher, extra software sales are been made and the games get more exposure. The potential downside is pissing off buyers and retailers, yet these entities are already disapointed because the system shortages.
So from a busyness perespective, is money been left on the table?
Wouldn't the correct way to debate this, be to compare the 3rd party software available for both consoles at the same time in the market? It's better than a back and fowrward by both sides withouth any substantial proof. When there's the possibility to reach the truth in an objective way.
Given how good some of you guys are getting sales information im surprised it hasn't happened already XD
But the Switch doesn't have a year in the market and there's the chance of software landing within that time that hasn't been announced.
So it would be about looking at exactly what has been released for both Vita and Switch in the first 6 months.
For example, including digital codes of Snipper Clips or 1 2 Switch at a discounted price. This makes the baseline of the console's sale price higher, extra software sales are been made and the games get more exposure. The potential downside is pissing off buyers and retailers, yet these entities are already disapointed because the system shortages.
So from a busyness perespective, is money been left on the table?
Wouldn't the correct way to debate this, be to compare the 3rd party software available for both consoles at the same time in the market? It's better than a back and fowrward by both sides withouth any substantial proof. When there's the possibility to reach the truth in an objective way.
Given how good some of you guys are getting sales information im surprised it hasn't happened already XD
Thanks for the answer.
But the Switch doesn't have a year in the market and there's the chance of software landing within that time that hasn't been announced.
So it would be about looking at exactly what has been released for both Vita and Switch in the first 6 months.
It happened, multiple times. IIRC it was something like 3DS > Vita > Switch > PS4, counting the whole first year.
We've brought that up repeatedly but its usually dismissed for one reason or another.
I don't think there's anything controversial with what I said there. Switch is picking up more support(especially from people like Gust) than I expected but it's not matching Vita, at least for now.
You talking Switch 2018 vs Vita 2018? I'd hope to god Switch would win that.
Yeah, we're not seeing anyone make Switch exclusives whilst PS4 is getting more and more. Sony has nothing to worry about.
It might be best to wait until the end of next month because it's about announcements as well as releases. Vita's first TGS had(from third parties):
Gundam Breaker
EDF3
Street Fighter x Tekken
Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2
Senran Kagura: Shinovi Versus
Muramasa
Valhalla Knights 3
Atelier Totori
Ys Celceta
Zero no Kiseki Evo
God Eater 2
Toukiden
Demon Tribe(vaporware)
Phantasy Star Online 2
Looking at the current Road to TGS DQ Builders 2 is around on par with God Eater 2(those are the respective big hitters there) and we've got Atelier for Switch but other than that Switch has a lot of catching up to do, most of the Switch games announced recently are irrelevant late ports.
My problem with this is that I'm sure that SW will have shorter life than PS4. And many developers have avoided the easiest of ports to the SW.
What is frustrating is you and others appear to keep moving the goal posts.
"no 3rd parties are announcing games. Support is nothing compared to PS4".
9-10 games announced in past 3 weeks: "those don't count! They're late ports!! Compare it to Vita!!"
Why do you think that?
Technological cycles. Nintendo wouldn't want to be on a position where neither mobile engines, let alone console engines, stop being feasible to port to the hardware. I see a 4 year cycle to the SW, 3 if they release a SW2 with perfect backwards compatibility.
Hey now I didn't bring up Vita.
Also those late ports are super irrelevant. Two out of three of those Musou games are several years old, they won't sell anything and more importantly the new games(Dynasty Warriors 9 and AOT2) are skipping the platform.
Here, let me make this simple for you.
The lion's share of Japanese publishers, especially niche publishers more focused on the domestic market, will be heavy supporters of the Switch because they don't have a choice. The PS4 is a dead end as far as the Japanese traditional gaming market is concerned. The Vita is irrelevant and the 3DS is slowly bowing out. Mobile remains a lucrative market but it's heavy on competition and isn't a good exclusive option for most publishers.
It is literally Switch or bust. Market realities will force publishers' hands no matter what the new "tech baseline" is.
And the point I've been trying to make for months is that late ports are the norm for initial Japanese support
Why list the late ports to Vita then?
Not to mention we don't even use that word the way English speakers do
. When anglophones say "portmanteau", we say "mot-valise"."Portemanteau" means "coat stand" or "clothes tree" in French.
They seem to be managing just fine without Switch.
I might be forgetting something but PS4 generally didn't get late ports where the next games in those franchises were skipping the platform. That's the key difference.
You can probably take out the straight late ports(like NGS2) but something Muramasa was greatly expanded on Vita, unlike the late ports on Switch which are as low effort as they come.
Ah yes, when you look at all that growth going from Vita or PS4/Vita to just PS4. Amazing numbers.
You seem to believe these late, rushed ports equal the total sum of 3rd party support for the platform going forward and that after those games are released they are done with the platform.
To me it seems much more likely that they are setting up for much bigger things on a system currently selling out everywhere.
EDIT- I'm looking at PS4's first 12 months 3rd party support- what 3rd party ports specifically are you thinking of when you say the next game in the franchises were guaranteed on PS4?
From Okami site (Famitsu/Enterbrain), PSV and Switch first 6 months SW.
Miss latest updated Switch games figures and of course Monster Hunter XX for Switch Ver isn't there yet.
PSV:
Switch:
Essentially Vita had more games but all of them sold very little, at most 100K.
Only Hot Shot Golf sold markedly more than 100K but nothing to write home (180K).
Switch had less games but what is pushing sales are first-party games that are selling big (Monster Hunter XX may join the 200K+ club).
PdotMichael
Banned
It's a little naive to think that the Switch would instantly get the games for a specific audience which was cultivated on Playstation platforms for over a decade.
Switch will never those games is so much bullshit as the opposite claim that Japanese devs will see the Switch as only relevant platform.
Switch will never those games is so much bullshit as the opposite claim that Japanese devs will see the Switch as only relevant platform.
The obvious comparisons would be Dynasty Warriors 8 Xtreme Legends, Samurai Warriors 4 and Warriors Orochi 3 Ultimate. PS4 is getting/got follow ups to all three of those.
Currently the next Dynasty Warriors is not releasing on Switch and the other recent announcement from the same developer/on the same engine (AOT2) is also skipping Switch because they don't think it can run the game.
I was going to say Tales of Zestiria but that was 2015. Yikes!
Where was that said about AOT2? All I can find was KT's COO saying they weren't ruling out Switch but had nothing to announce now.
Laplasakos
Member
What games where announced for Switch after launch that you could call it a big turnaround?
PS4 is a dead and it's Switch or death in Japan?
Japanese publishers shot themselves on foot. They should publicaly apologize and cancel their PS4 games or they can kiss their business goodbye!
Why don't you look from PS3 to PS4 instead?
Why not indeed, the growth of big japanese PS3 IP on PS4 like Tales Of, Final Fantasy, Yakuza, Dynasty Warriors, Gran Turismo (soon) and much more really shows how confident developers should feel about a PS4-only future.
You might be right, I thought for sure I read that whilst they hadn't ruled Vita and Switch out they didn't think they would be able to run it. Hmmm I'll have to see if I can find it.
Resident Evil, Metal Gear Solid, Winning Eleven, Tekken are also negative examples in the transition between PS3 and PS4.
On the bright side there are Persona and Dark Souls.
EDIT:
Oh yeah Nier too (on the bright side)!
Laplasakos
Member
Seems to me you are only comparing what suits you. Dynasty Warriors and Gran Turismo haven't hit PS4 yet and the decline of Yakuza and Tales started before PS4. What about Dark Souls, Nier, MGS, Persona?
And what about total numbers (in case you say i am comparing what suits me) like hardware and software where PS4 is leading? YoY numbers maybe?
Final Fantasy is indeed in decline but every major franchise is. MH4 declined from Portable 3 in Japan, DQ11 will decline from DQ9, Yokai Watch is in decline too but i am not seeing you making a fuss. Maybe because these games were only available for Nintendo platforms?
lwilliams3
Member
These first-year comparisons means very little at the end of the day with the way things are going due to the Switch's preformance. After the failing of the Wii and the decrease of the handheld marketshare, most were caution about Nintendo's next system. The ENTIRE INDUSTRY (including Nintendo) underestimated the system's selling potential, so there are publishers that are literally scambling to make games for it before the system's sales explode even more when the shipment issues are dealt with. We will likely see more random games and late ports pop up as companies play catch-up.
Laplasakos
Member
Tekken is on decline since PS1 and Winning Eleven since PS2.
Jarod McChicken
Member
The PS4 has sold more games than the PS3 at the same point of life anyway, has it not ?
Many of the series cited peaked on PS1 or PS2.
All of these ones keep going down sales-wise.
Yup.
I don't need to bring my crystall ball to predict that Dynasty Warriors 9 will be a major decline. Musou in general is dying. I didn't know there was a PS3-exclusive Persona game, you learn something new everyday. Dark Souls I debuted higher than Dark Souls 3. You're right about NieR, there are some success stories on PS4.
Hardware-wise the PS4 is barely leading, by such a small margin that nobody should be celebrating that, especially when PS3 numbers weren't impressive to begin with.
The initial discussion was about developers doing fine with PS4 only games, hence why I brought examples of PS4 declines. I don't know why you're bringing up console warriors arguments, and stating the obvious : yes, there are declines everywhere, practically every IP is suffering declines at some point, it's nearly impossible to have only growth. That's how sales works.
People are applying muddled reasoning and increasingly convoluted mental gymnastics to deny what is going to be a straightforward and unremarkable transition towards what will likely be the only traditional platform in Japan that matters.
I see this said often but are there numbers to support it? Dengeki gives FY totals per platform don't they?
You better get used to the idea that a lot of 3rd party games on the Switch will be multiplatform. That 256x192 pixel roadblock to easy ports is gone for good. Switch is a single-screen 16:9 sometimes 720p sometimes 1080p system. There will not be hand-placed pixel art designed specifically for that screen, unlike DS and 3DS. Touch is only available in one mode, unlike DS and 3DS. There is no extra design required to make any Switch game also a PS4 and/or PC game, and that's exactly why you'll see it happening more, not less.
Laplasakos
Member
Then maybe you should wait and seed how it does. You were sure that MH would not hit PS4 too.
Are we comparing only debuts now? What's next, first day numbers?
Ah, i see, so no fun allowed then.
Console warrior arguments? I suggest you should be more careful with your words. Don't accuse me with that nonsense. I just quote your posts and reply back with as much evidence i can.
Goodness gracious, what on Earth is your position now? A year from now do you think when the Vita is dead do you expect publishers to migrate to PS4/PC only when the Switch is poised to be the next traditional platform or not? It's mind boggling how you're using rushed software to make the first few months of support and extrapolating that to paint how third party is going to be for the system. I sincerely hope you are smarter than that, but even if you aren't, only more games have been getting announced for Switch.
I'd really like to know what's the relation between predicting sales and predicting where an unannounced game would release but hey, let's wait then.
Uh, if you want to compare LTD, Dark Souls I sold around 334k in 3 months in 2011, while in 2016 Dark Souls 3 with 9 months only sold 330k according to Famitsu. If you have better numbers than these feel free to share them.
That's only my opinion tho, do whatever you want /shrug.
I mean, you brought completely unrelated arguments for no reason, but if you say so, I'll belive in your innocence.
Jarod McChicken
Member
I'd like to know too, I though this was a hiska-kun graph but I can't find it. At least there is the total retail software here from Game Data Library. Looks like PS4 games are about to outlcass PS Vita.
The question was did we know they were getting the next games in those series during the first 6 months of PS4's launch?
Everyone knew PS4 would get every major franchise in Japan even though the first 9-10 months of the platform saw a total of like 15 Japanese 3rd party games.
Everyone knows Switch's first 9 months of Japanese support is the high water mark for a system on track to at least triple PS4's first year.
Laplasakos
Member
Famitsu numbers
Retail: 395.650
Digital: 73.018
Total: 468.668
Source: Okami gamesdatalibrary
How it's completely unrelated, when you mentioned big franchises on Sony systems and i did the same with big franchises on Nintendo systems?
Ooh, that's a nice site. I was using Media Create numbers for Dark Souls I tho, and it debuted quite higher here compared to Dark Souls 3, but Famitsu has significantly lower numbers (228k vs 280k), guess I was fooled by the trackers.
Maybe because I was talking about the issue of being a PS4-only developer for the upcoming years when this hardware has seen a lot of declines from PS3 or Vita releases ? Like, what's even the point with 3DS. There are declines on that hardware too, but it's not like they can make PS4/3DS multiplatform games to compensate or something (well, except Square Enix) >.>
Laplasakos
Member
Yes, you were talking about the issue of being a PS4 only developer and you mentioned some declines. And i mentioned some other games, basically saying that Nintendo only developers too are seeing declines. I don't understand really the issue.
Extending this logic then which Switch games are seeing declines?