Err, you can use the same characters without making scene for scene recreations from another movie. Also, Leia wasn't a main character of A New Hope now??
Is she the defacto lead of ANH? What is her role in the climax of ANH?
Err, you can use the same characters without making scene for scene recreations from another movie. Also, Leia wasn't a main character of A New Hope now??
Oh I'm well aware of the Luke double standard. I chalk it up to wish-fulfillment character coupled with nostalgia.Of all the criticism of the PT, I don't remember a SINGLE CRITICISM that boiled down to "Anakin is a Gary Stu". Sure, people criticized dumb things happening, like him getting into a ship and accidentally blowing shit up, but that wasn't based around the general criticism of "his entire being is overpowered. None of his successes are earned because his force powers are too great"
Only time I ever remember hearing about the Mary Sue type shit was when TFA was released.
And also, the general acceptance that we should "just go with it, it's SW, the force makes you powerful" IS a defense, when you apply this viewpoint to Anakin and Luke too. You're saying "so fucking what, it's the force, it lets ALL of these people do incredible things".
That's not to say we cannot be critical of things that may have been TOO good, but if you apply that criticism to one hero it must be examined with the other two.
And lots of people have a death star sized double standard for Luke.
No, that's head in the sand levels of ignorance, and is not ok. I refuse to cosign that.Hell it's not even limited to this argument.
You have people criticising fucking Wonder Woman for being a mary-sue while literally ignoring the entire superhero archetype
Yeah with Anakin, more than Luke and Rey, you already had the context that he was some overpowered chosen one from the very start. The prophecy, the knowledge he becomes Vader, virgin birth, his midi power level, it doesn't come into question why he can do the extraordinary things he can, he's Vader Christ.
Doesn't mean he can't do great things.Except all of the wisest Jedi in known existence said "no, you're wrong, sorry, he's an evil asshole"
Err, you can use the same characters without making scene for scene recreations from another movie. Also, Leia wasn't a main character of A New Hope now??
Obviously this isn't applicable to every person who doesn't like TFA, but by and large the complaints I've seen with TFA who were fans of the OT are some of the same reasons why I wasn't a fan of Star Wars before TFA. Lemme explain. I wasn't a fan of Star Wars until 2015. Rey turned me into a fan of Star Wars, and by proxy, so did The Force Awakens. I feel like I finally got Star Wars. I understood it now. So when I went to watch the OT again, I enjoyed it more.
I have heard variations on this story a lot. It's undeniable, to me, the impact this film had on people who otherwise have not felt all that welcomed by either this series or its fandom.
You guys can't ignore the fact that both Luke and Anakin got their butt kicked several times.
I don't think that the Rey character is bad or something like that, it's just that her "power awakening" scenes maybe felt a bit abrupt and rushed.
I don't know why people are being so aggressive and balligerent about this.
Yup. My fiancé had the same reaction. She always liked Star Wars, but The Force Awakens was the film that made her love Star Wars for the first time. Now she gets as excited as I do everytime there's a new film. She even mentioned wanting to binge-watch Rebels the other day.
You guys can't ignore the fact that both Luke and Anakin got their butt kicked several times.
I don't think that the Rey character is bad or something like that, it's just that her "power awakening" scenes maybe felt a bit abrupt and rushed.
I don't know why people are being so aggressive and balligerent about this.
Not in the same sense that Rey is, no.Also, Leia wasn't a main character of A New Hope now??
Leia's role in A New Hope was absolutely to be the damsel in distress. She subverts that trope, in what was a pretty progressive way for the 1970s, but by being tough, capable, and able to protect herself once she's rescued. However she still doesn't really become a major player in the narrative until the last 45 minutes, still exists largely to be rescued by the men, and still gets sidelined for the last set-piece of the film.
It's in Empire where she really graduated to being a co-lead.
Did you miss the whole part where she gets her butt kicked and is taken hostage?
Once this turns into arguments about sex and race there are no winners and people get banned
guys I've found the perfect gif for contemporary star wars threads on gaf
You guys can't ignore the fact that both Luke and Anakin got their butt kicked several times.
WellOnce this turns into arguments about sex and race there are no winners and people get banned
Didn't Rey also get her ass kicked by Kylo Ren the first time? That's why she gets captured in the first place.
When does Anakin get his butt kicked in TPM?You guys can't ignore the fact that both Luke and Anakin got their butt kicked several times.
I don't think that the Rey character is bad or something like that, it's just that her "power awakening" scenes maybe felt a bit abrupt and rushed.
I don't know why people are being so aggressive and balligerent about this.
This "errr" and "ummm" shit is breaking out like a rash today.
Also I'm not sure I understand your question, or if you understood the point being made in the tweets you're referencing.
Basically: The nature of The Force Awakens is automatically different than A New Hope by dint of who is carrying the film and what they represent, and the only way to make facile comparisons to A New Hope really stick is to essentially erase their genders and colors.
You're doing that right now.
Hell, Rey also gets rekt at the very start of that final fight between her, Finn and Kylo. Dude straight up Force Pushes her right into a tree to knock her out.
They're saying TFA is nothing like ANH because of it's lead characters. That has nothing to do with how the storyboard is pretty much lifting scenes from one movie and putting it in the new one. Why does it have to be one of the other? The people saying "It's JUST like A New Hope" are talking about this.
You can have the new lead characters, women characters, POC characters and NOT copy the scenes straight out of another film.
It's like people only think of a story here in terms of its plot, I.E, the events that happen in the story. There's very little regard for character from some posters. When, in actuality, whether you're cognizant of it or not, characters are damn near always the reason that you fall for a narrative.
While there are clear and obvious PLOT similarities between ANH and TFA, the CHARACTERS are very different. And how those similar plot beats affect those characters is also very different.
And even Empire still largely limits her heroics and even makes her the passive one in her own romance subplot.Leia's role in A New Hope was absolutely to be the damsel in distress. She subverts that trope, in what was a pretty progressive way for the 1970s, but by being tough, capable, and able to protect herself once she's rescued. However she still doesn't really become a major player in the narrative until the last 45 minutes, still exists largely to be rescued by the men, and still gets sidelined for the last set-piece of the film.
It's in Empire where she really graduated to being a co-lead.
And even Empire still largely limits her heroics and even makes her the passive one in her own romance subplot.
RotJ is really the only one that remotely lets her cut loose as a hero.
They're saying TFA is nothing like ANH
While simultaneously degrading her by forcing her into a skimpy outfit to enact a sex-slave scenario.
I'm just gonna quote myself from earlier in the thread, tired of having to address the same arguments over and over.
They're saying TFA is nothing like ANH because of it's lead characters. That has nothing to do with how the storyboard is pretty much lifting scenes from one movie and putting it in the new one. Why does it have to be one of the other? The people saying "It's JUST like A New Hope" are talking about this.
You can have the new lead characters, women characters, POC characters and NOT copy the scenes straight out of another film.
You can have the new lead characters, women characters, POC characters and NOT copy the scenes straight out of another film.
Exactly.While simultaneously degrading her by forcing her into a skimpy outfit to enact a sex-slave scenario.
k... and? people are supposed to forgive things they dislike because the characters are different? k.
I'm just gonna quote myself from earlier in the thread, tired of having to address the same arguments over and over.
That's also a lame, superficial thing to dislike, regardless.
it's not. but, like, why care if people dislike it for having similar beats to ANH?
And this is what happens when you do a surface reading that strips all context and awareness out.Kylo is pretty much Anakin but the 3 main characters are different enough.
Plot points only matter to the extent the "why" (narrative) around them does.k... and? people are supposed to forgive things they dislike because the characters are different? k.
Kylo is pretty much Anakin but the 3 main characters are different enough. That still doesn't change the fact that copying scenes make people feel like it's A New Hope. They basically went through a checklist of things to copy then put new characters in the slots. Ok cool, new characters are nice but that doesn't fundamentally change a movie from feeling the same as another when you're very intentionally trying to soft reboot it.
From the trailer of The Last Jedi there are already some major scenes that look straight out of ESB. These are soft reboots. That's what they are.
she should have mind controlled him. she was pretty good at it by then.
Why discuss a movie in a discussion thread about said movie?
You guys can't ignore the fact that both Luke and Anakin got their butt kicked several times.
The frustration comes from how many scenes are straight up ignored by people criticizing the film as they come up with new ways to say Rey did the force wrong. For instance your post.I don't think that the Rey character is bad or something like that, it's just that her "power awakening" scenes maybe felt a bit abrupt and rushed.
I don't know why people are being so aggressive and balligerent about this.
Also, I'll drop this Ebert quote into a Star Wars thread for like the 100th time probably: "It's not what a movie is about, it's how it is about it."
When does Anakin get his butt kicked in TPM?
that's not an answer. you're trying to say it's wrong for them to not like it because they believe it follows similar beats.
Also reiterating that I can't stand the "The Force Awakens is just A New Hope" critique.
It literally doesn't make any sense to anyone, who examines the parallels for more than 10 seconds. TFA was a great movie and people need to just deal with that.