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Gran Turismo Sport Previews

Synth

Member
If reviewers have metaphorical balls Forza 7 should be getting kicked down a notch for the complete takeover by microtransactions, loot boxes and the nerfing of VIP. I'm not saying everyone needs to NBA 2K18 3/10 everything this insidious, but it should come into score weighting in the current games industry. Cowards and brown nosers will wave it off as "games as a service" and "these devs gotta eat" and "but it doesn't upset me!". It's gone too far in Forza now and MS need to know that. They even put video advertisements in the series...

GTSport already has the high ground for Kaz saying they'll ditch MT's, but GTSport is still going to get slaughtered for lack of content compared to previous entries coupled with us having to wait till near the end of the PS4 generation to get this cut down GT. Weather is looking iffy as well, and reviewers will again dock reviews if PD have nuked weather from GT5/GT6 (dynamic is definitely gone). This is going to come across like the kind of GT effort that should have released as a "rushed" PS4 launch title.

Yea, that's kinda how I see it. I see FM7 finishing lower than FM6's 86, not so much because reviewers find their balls regarding MTs (how often has that ever happened in the past?), but more because the progression itself has altered as a result, so they'd probably just legitimately have less fun.

GT Sport is probably going to have a rough time due to it's content. Games journalists aren't typically the most competent or competitive of gamers, and so GTS' eSports aspirations probably won't mean much to them in comparison to what it lacks from previous entries. It won't help that both Project Cars 2 and Forza Motorport 7 are releasing at basically the same time, and that the online landscape will hardly be buzzing with energy during a review phase.

I can see both FM and GT scoring lower than their last outings tbh. GTS is basically Street Fighter V again, but in racing form.
 

watdaeff4

Member
If reviewers have metaphorical balls Forza 7 should be getting kicked down a notch for the complete takeover by microtransactions, loot boxes and the nerfing of VIP. I'm not saying everyone needs to NBA 2K18 3/10 everything this insidious, but it should come into score weighting in the current games industry. Cowards and brown nosers will wave it off as "games as a service" and "these devs gotta eat" and "but it doesn't upset me!". It's gone too far in Forza now and MS need to know that. They even put video advertisements in the series.

I don't necessarily disagree with you but at what point is the line?

UC4 is a fantastic game but had P2W elements in its MP. Should those reviews been affected? Same with many other games that scored well (I consider 80+ as scoring "well")
 

watdaeff4

Member
There are none that play exactly like GT.


Agreed. GT is the most popular racing franchise (based off sales). If people don't realize some are going to be upset by this direction , that's sticking their head in the sand. And just like I said before - these type of attitudes is very similar to how the FGC acted towards casuals regarding SFV and let's ask how that turned out for Capcom
 

TheDanger

Banned
Q53cEdk.gif

someone know what video this is from?
 
I'll predict the sim focused reviewers like Inside Sim racing, GTPlanet, Team VVV, etc will give it positive reviews since the driving is very improved. Sites like IGN and Gamespot will probably score it lower due to the lack of offline content.
 

Audioboxer

Member
Yea, that's kinda how I see it. I see FM7 finishing lower than FM6's 86, not so much because reviewers find their balls regarding MTs (how often has that ever happened in the past?), but more because the progression itself has altered as a result, so they'd probably juse legitimately have less fun.

GT Sport is probably going to have a rough time due to it's content. Games journalists aren't typically the most competent or competitive of gamers, and so GTS' eSports aspirations probably won't mean much to them in comparison to what it lacks from previous entries. It won't help that both Project Cars 2 and Forza Motorport 7 are releasing at basically the same time, and that the online landscape will hardly be buzzing with energy during a review phase.

I can see both FM and GT scoring lower than their last outings tbh. GTS is basically Street Fighter V again, but in racing form.

I agree. Driveclub even got criticised for being "soulless", or was that GT? Either way, it's going to be a hard sell on the content and due to the expectations from past GT's. Even with Kaz/PD dropping the 7, reviewers aren't suddenly going to say "yeah this is fine, it's not really 7". It still costs $60 and it's still taken 4 years since GT6 to be released.

I don't necessarily disagree with you but at what point is the line?

UC4 is a fantastic game but had P2W elements in its MP. Should those reviews been affected? Same with many other games that scored well (I consider 80+ as scoring "well")

The line for me is at least mentioning it. I guess that is a good baseline. Not all reviews have scores anyway. Too many reviewers don't even mention MTs/loot boxes/F2P elements or how they may or may not impact the game. I know half the pubs/devs have them turned off for reviews, but if that is the case then I think that itself should be an automatic admission of scummyness. Worth docking? Well, at least worth mentioning this dev/pub has disabled MTs/loot boxes/whatever it is for review, and this shows cowardice.

Actually taking off from the numbered score is completely up to the reviewer. I wouldn't say there is a required deduction. What I would say though is like what Jim said, even if 3/10 is a "protest" review, at this point in this industry, so what? Fans need to be prepared not to get as butthurt over reviews if some reviewers start taking a stance here and docking their favourite franchises. That is neeeeeeever going to happen though. Look at any review thread and the rage an 8/10 brings, let alone a 3/10 protest review. People will be angry if any reviewers dares dock Forza to 7 or 8 out of 10 due to all of this. It's just the way gamers are with reviews. Hence why I hardly take part in many review topics.

For me it's got nothing to do with riling up fans anyway, I want the publishers and devs squirming with rage at journalists/reviewers taking a stance against out of control preying monetization. Until this industry gets some regulation, if it ever does, the gamers voices and journalists/reviewers articles/review scores are all we have to pushback. Besides voting with the wallet, but we can do that whilst still voicing complaints.
 

watdaeff4

Member
The line for me is at least mentioning it. I guess that is a good baseline. Not all reviews have scores anyway. Too many reviewers don't even mention MTs/loot boxes/F2P elements or how they may or may not impact the game. I know half the pubs/devs have them turned off for reviews, but if that is the case then I think that itself should be an automatic admission of scummyness. Worth docking? Well, at least worth mentioning this dev/pub has disabled MTs/loot boxes/whatever it is for review, and this shows cowardice.

Actually taking off from the numbered score is completely up to the reviewer. I wouldn't say there is a required deduction. What I would say though is like what Jim said, even if 3/10 is a "protest" review, at this point in this industry, so what? Fans need to be prepared not to get as butthurt over reviews if some reviewers start taking a stance here and docking their favourite franchises. That is neeeeeeever going to happen though. Look at any review thread and the rage an 8/10 brings, let alone a 3/10 protest review. People will be angry if any reviewers dares dock Forza to 7 or 8 out of 10 due to all of this. It's just the way gamers are with reviews. Hence why I hardly take part in many review topics.

Scores do matter as they influence sales probably (I don't know if this has ever been proven though). So I'm fine with a stance of docking NBA and Forza this year as they seem to be taking MTs to another level and having them influence the SP progression. That's the line I have- but it is a bit hypocritical and a slippery slope as I should have taken that personal stance once it encroached MP modes (like UC4 and Halo 5)
 

Audioboxer

Member
Scores do matter as they influence sales probably (I don't know if this has ever been proven though). So I'm fine with a stance of docking NBA and Forza this year as they seem to be taking MTs to another level and having them influence the SP progression. That's the line I have- but it is a bit hypocritical and a slippery slope as I should have taken that personal stance once it encroached MP modes (like UC4 and Halo 5)

I meant it more from a pragmatic response of if you're asking me what I feel is the absolute minimum required. Considering publishers try to bully reviewers into giving good reviews, I'm not wanting to do the opposite and say to reviewers you BETTER dock 1~3 points for every scummy game. It really is up to the reviewer and that is how it should always be.

I'd be happy to see more of the worst examples in gaming get docked points, but at a minimum, I just wish more journalists and reviewers would talk about all of this. The industry is in a weird place right now where a decent number of gamers are getting angry/talking about MTs/loot boxes/F2P in $60 games, but the media/journalists seems to be lagging a bit behind. The Ars Technica and PCGamer articles were a breath of fresh air.

Maybe it is really what Jim proposes about some relationships in this industry, they're on such a knife edge everyone is scared to be the next TheSixthAxis who gets a publisher "politely" harassing them. Or maybe some truly don't care how bad monetization gets.
 

farisr

Member
Scores do matter as they influence sales probably (I don't know if this has ever been proven though). So I'm fine with a stance of docking NBA and Forza this year as they seem to be taking MTs to another level and having them influence the SP progression. That's the line I have- but it is a bit hypocritical and a slippery slope as I should have taken that personal stance once it encroached MP modes (like UC4 and Halo 5)
What I feel is that these aspects should be mentioned in detail as to how they affect progression and what not in all reviews, and the score should reflect however the reviewer feels about the overall game with everything in mind, which in many cases will have people who don't think MTs make the game any worse and what not. I feel that's fair, as long as all pertinent info is present in the contents of the review.

Of course, if it was personally up to me, games would automatically get points docked for stuff like this, so that it discourages developers from making even more intrusive systems like that in the future like we're seeing now with Forza 7 and Shadow of War. But reviews are subjective and everyone's entitled to their opinion.
 

watdaeff4

Member
I meant it more from a pragmatic response of if you're asking me what I feel is the absolute minimum required. Considering publishers try to bully reviewers into giving good reviews, I'm not wanting to do the opposite and say to reviewers you BETTER dock 1~3 points for every scummy game. It really is up to the reviewer and that is how it should always be.

I'd be happy to see more of the worst examples in gaming get docked points, but at a minimum, I just wish more journalists and reviewers would talk about all of this. The industry is in a weird place right now where a decent number of gamers are getting angry/talking about MTs/loot boxes/F2P in $60 games, but the media seems to be lagging behind.

Sorry for not being clear. I read your initial post that you hope Forza 7 is docked in scores by reviewers.

I think at the end of the day our beliefs are pretty similar just expressed differently
 

Audioboxer

Member
Sorry for not being clear. I read your initial post that you hope Forza 7 is docked in scores by reviewers.

I think at the end of the day our beliefs are pretty similar just expressed differently

Ah right, yeah, I do have a personal hope, but it would never be a demanded hope. Whatever review scores journalists/reviewers want to hand out it's their personal and subjective views. I do not like the approach by some gamers who get hostile to reviewers who do not meet what they want. Hence why I tend to avoid review topics on GAF lol.

As for why it's a personal hope, it's due to all of this reaching boiling point. We're going to get more and more SP games infested with out of control monetization and Shadow of Mordor/NBA 2K18 and now Forza 7 either changing/nerfing or adding monetization to SP elements is the beginning of the rest of the industry saying "these guys did it, so we can do it as well". I'm primarily a SP gamer, so I'm getting defensive of what could be to come. MP has been a mixed bag in $60 games for a while, but I've managed to avoid a lot of the big MP titles as I don't play them. I've not even bought Destiny 2 yet, and I stopped playing COD many years ago. I don't play Overwatch either.
 
Tbh yeah, career mode in GT was always a series of disjointed races through which obtaining money to buy cars and upgrades.
Having those handled like single custom races doesn't make a huge difference for me.

GT6's career races were almost always that chase the rabbit style crap. About time they try something different.
 
Scores do matter as they influence sales probably (I don't know if this has ever been proven though). So I'm fine with a stance of docking NBA and Forza this year as they seem to be taking MTs to another level and having them influence the SP progression. That's the line I have- but it is a bit hypocritical and a slippery slope as I should have taken that personal stance once it encroached MP modes (like UC4 and Halo 5)

I don't think reviews will hurt GT much .
WOM going to matter much more than reviews .
Of course GT games sell for a long time and this GT is more GaaS than before so that can help later on.
 
This person has every imaginable assist on (including auto brake and steer assist for some reason) which is why there's an epileptic seizure worth of blinking going on along the bottom of the screen. I have no idea if that's AI or human players, but the driver is a jackass who'd get sorted out of matchmaking from players who race clean.
someone know what video this is from?
I can't say this with total certainty, but because of the markers in the corners that's most likely actual live race footage.
 

dmix90

Member
It's a single player set up where every station next to the other had people playing completely different tracks.
Nice! Something about this gif is mighty impressive for me. I am not a big racing player but i don't think i have seen such convincing "near crash" car behavior before in other games.
 
I wonder how much review scores matter to a series like Gran Turismo? Is anyone not buying FIFA 18 because it's got a few 7/10s, for example? Of course not.
 
Willow Springs in GTSport is straight up photorealism. Not the it looks gorgeous kind, but it really does look perfect. People are going to be surprised when they play it.
 
No. Only the Thrustmaster T150, T300, T500 Series and the G29 are confirmed. Maybe the Fanatec CSL Elite will work since that is officially licensed but it was not included in the GT:S beta.

You can use a DriveHub to turn your G27 into a G29 but I personally would upgrade the whole G27 instead of paying ~100 bucks to keep it.

i just ordered a GIMX for 30 bucks, making the logitech g27 fully functioning G29 on the PS4 with full force feedback.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1125782
 

Fukuzatsu

Member
I wonder how much review scores matter to a series like Gran Turismo? Is anyone not buying FIFA 18 because it's got a few 7/10s, for example? Of course not.

Perhaps the question is, to what degree is Gran Turismo the FIFA of sim racing compared to Forza or Project Cars? Who is the Pro Evolution Soccer of sim racing?
 

Neith

Banned
Yea, that's kinda how I see it. I see FM7 finishing lower than FM6's 86, not so much because reviewers find their balls regarding MTs (how often has that ever happened in the past?), but more because the progression itself has altered as a result, so they'd probably just legitimately have less fun.

GT Sport is probably going to have a rough time due to it's content. Games journalists aren't typically the most competent or competitive of gamers, and so GTS' eSports aspirations probably won't mean much to them in comparison to what it lacks from previous entries. It won't help that both Project Cars 2 and Forza Motorport 7 are releasing at basically the same time, and that the online landscape will hardly be buzzing with energy during a review phase.

I can see both FM and GT scoring lower than their last outings tbh. GTS is basically Street Fighter V again, but in racing form.

I want to see the full game with GT. I might have some fun. Driveclub sucked a lot online because there was no friggin' system to rate people, otherwise online was a blast. I think if Sport succeeds the online will have enough to keep people going.

But no question content is thin with cars. I was expecting at least 4 or 5 different ferraris, and as many with other makers. The car list is just horrific, and we have no idea what kind of DLC is coming.
 
I want to see the full game with GT. I might have some fun. Driveclub sucked a lot online because there was no friggin' system to rate people, otherwise online was a blast. I think if Sport succeeds the online will have enough to keep people going.

But no question content is thin with cars. I was expecting at least 4 or 5 different ferraris, and as many with other makers. The car list is just horrific, and we have no idea what kind of DLC is coming.

I'm getting more and more excited for GT Sport, as the latest videos are showing good polish and the base game looks good. The car list at the moment is not good but in terms of support, this game is going to have content updates for years to come, that is not an area I am worried about.

The question is how this DLC is going to be introduced, I'm not stupid enough to believe PD will give everything for free. It is a GAAS so be it microtransactions or paid DLC, one of those will be introduced, Sony want to make money off those so called 'whales'.
 
I'm getting more and more excited for GT Sport, as the latest videos are showing good polish and the base game looks good. The car list at the moment is not good but in terms of support, this game is going to have content updates for years to come, that is not an area I am worried about.

The question is how this DLC is going to be introduced, I'm not stupid enough to believe PD will give everything for free. It is a GAAS so be it microtransactions or paid DLC, one of those will be introduced, Sony want to make money off those so called 'whales'.

Microtransactions are said to be not in the game thankfully, so I'm guessing it will be a mix of free and paid DLC, probably a season pass.
 

IISANDERII

Member
I can see tracks being free so the userbase isn't split but then cars are paid. I hope they watch balancing issues because already in the beta certain cars were dominant so I can also imagine a p2w thing happening where the DLC cars are faster.
 

SliChillax

Member
I can see tracks being free so the userbase isn't split but then cars are paid. I hope they watch balancing issues because already in the beta certain cars were dominant so I can also imagine a p2w thing happening where the DLC cars are faster.
Umm cars aren't meant to be balanced. Some cars are faster than others and that's how it should be. If you want balanced races then force races so everyone has the same car.
 

Flousn

Member
I have a question: I recently got into racing games and i´m quite enjoying driveclub right now, although i´m looking forward to diving into a more realistic game with GTS.
I´m thinking about buying a wheel, but i´m not sure about spending so much money on a periphal for a genre I´m not sure if it will keep my interest.
Is the Thrustmaster T150 a good entry-point for a rather casual racing-fan that just wants to feel more immersed?
I feel like most of the Opinions online are from the SIM-racing crowd that maybe have different standards/expectations than me.
 

SliChillax

Member
They are supposed to be balanced. Hence them being grouped together.
Being grouped together doesn't mean anything. Even in real life in real races like F1, LeMans etc some cars are clearly better and faster than the competition due to better engines, suspension, chassis etc. Then you factor in driver talent.
 
Being grouped together doesn't mean anything. Even in real life in real races like F1, LeMans etc some cars are clearly better and faster than the competition due to better engines, suspension, chassis etc. Then you factor in driver talent.

LMP1s and the GT3 class should be balanced. No idea about the N-class but they seem to be as well.

There is a manufacturer cup so they need every car in each group to have a chance. There is a threshold of course, but they've been optimizing the cars a lot in the beta.
 

FeD.nL

Member
I have a question: I recently got into racing games and i´m quite enjoying driveclub right now, although i´m looking forward to diving into a more realistic game with GTS.
I´m thinking about buying a wheel, but i´m not sure about spending so much money on a periphal for a genre I´m not sure if it will keep my interest.
Is the Thrustmaster T150 a good entry-point for a rather casual racing-fan that just wants to feel more immersed?
I feel like most of the Opinions online are from the SIM-racing crowd that maybe have different standards/expectations than me.

The wheel itself is a very good choice to start out with. The pedals are a bit lacking though, but you can upgrade them down the line if you enjoy racing with it. Have you seen a deal somewhere where you can buy it, because the prices can fluctuate quite a bit, and something like a G29 is a more complete set (good wheel and pedals) if the prices are close to each other.

If you can find a G29 that's within $40,- of the T150 I would really recommend that one.
 

Flousn

Member
The wheel itself is a very good choice to start out with. The pedals are a bit lacking though, but you can upgrade them down the line if you enjoy racing with it. Have you seen a deal somewhere where you can buy it, because the prices can fluctuate quite a bit, and something like a G29 is a more complete set (good wheel and pedals) if the prices are close to each other.

If you can find a G29 that's within $40,- of the T150 I would really recommend that one.

Thanks for the reply!

Hmmm i have not read too many great things about the g29 (repackaged g27 and so forth). The t150 is between 140 € and 170€, the g29 around 240€. For that money, i could go the extra mile to the t300 and i think beyond 200€ is just too much, as i also would have to get a wheelstand...
 
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