I remember putting the tapes in and waiting 5 minutes for them to load on my Spectrum. The only time you ever gave money to the same publisher was when you bought a brand new game, none of this loot box gambling bullshit.
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Shadow of Mordors true ending - Grinding or Lootboxes
- Thread starter Chairmanchuck
- Start date
I remember putting the tapes in and waiting 5 minutes for them to load on my Spectrum. The only time you ever gave money to the same publisher was when you bought a brand new game, none of this loot box gambling bullshit.
This isn't an MMORPG, where you're expected to continue playing for months if not years, and where the bulk of the content is intact intended for the endgame to be experienced by max level players.
This is a single player game. There should be no grinding to speak of.
wesleyshark
Banned
....nah. Grinding is fine for a massive title such as this.
It really isn't. People gave all kinds of shit to Dragon Age Inquisition for its adoption of MMO-like attributes. Why does Shadow of War get a pass?
Look at the "massive titles" out recently. Neither The Witcher 3 nor Horizon Zero Dawn have an endgame grind that requires several times the time required by the actual story campaign. Uncharted 4 (which has large parts that take place in an open world) just has an ending. All were "massive titles" and yet none of them forced you through an incredibly long grind that could oh so conveniently be alleviated by micro transaction purchases.
Lord of Castamere
Member
What's your definition of "getting a pass"? Dragon age won multiple game of the year awards, and Shadow of War is getting torn apart in multiple threads right now.
A Serious Man
Member
This is not defensible. Mindless padding is shit game design even without MTs and when it's done to push players into an eshop it's especially heinous. I'm still buying the game (because it looks fun and 30-50 hours of entertainment is worth my money) but I won't be spending an extra dime and I won't feel compelled at all to finish the extra grind at the end if the core gameplay has gone stale by that point.
Suzushiiro
Banned
That a game that pulls that shit has an 80something review aggregate score is fucking disgusting, honestly. That shit should instantaneously give your game a 0 score from any decent reviewer.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I've had today to ruminate on it
and it doesn't sound bad? From the sounds of it the loot boxes speed up the process BUT
you can get legendary and epic orcs in games, via dying and 'feeding' orcs to increase their rank
you can earn gold to buy store grade loot boxes
And well
What game DOESN'T make you grind to hell and back to unlock the 'final true anime ending' anyway? If the gameplay is good enough, then I wouldnt' mind having a goal at the end of the game. If it's enjoyable enough, it sounds like loot boxes can be safely ignored.
Like, no? Loot boxes can be done well. It seems Wardors boxes are shaky, but they're not horribly done. Like....the Persona games for example, have you grind to hell and back to unlock the 'true' or best ending. And that's usually not fun. And it usually takes up an extraneous amount of hours and a perfect path. If they offered 'loot boxes' that cut down this grinding in persona games, I feel that would be ok too? Because those games are already made with the intention of grinding, and a game like Wardor having some grinding at the end for an optional ending is..fine too?
and it doesn't sound bad? From the sounds of it the loot boxes speed up the process BUT
you can get legendary and epic orcs in games, via dying and 'feeding' orcs to increase their rank
you can earn gold to buy store grade loot boxes
And well
What game DOESN'T make you grind to hell and back to unlock the 'final true anime ending' anyway? If the gameplay is good enough, then I wouldnt' mind having a goal at the end of the game. If it's enjoyable enough, it sounds like loot boxes can be safely ignored.
Like, no? Loot boxes can be done well. It seems Wardors boxes are shaky, but they're not horribly done. Like....the Persona games for example, have you grind to hell and back to unlock the 'true' or best ending. And that's usually not fun. And it usually takes up an extraneous amount of hours and a perfect path. If they offered 'loot boxes' that cut down this grinding in persona games, I feel that would be ok too? Because those games are already made with the intention of grinding, and a game like Wardor having some grinding at the end for an optional ending is..fine too?
You are assuming that every reviewer 100% the game to acquire the 'True Ending'. I'm willing to bet that most simply completed the main game, got the game's end credits, did a few side quests/activities and submitted their reviews. How would you know how grindy the true ending is if you never did it?
Curious, how many reviewers do you think got the true ending in Batman: Arkham Knight before submitting their reviews? There is a lot of witch hunting going on here it seems.
Suzushiiro
Banned
You clearly have never fucking played a Persona game if you think that the true endings in them require any sort of grinding.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Maybe I should reword that. Yeah, the true endings are easy to get, but to completely beat the game, that is the unlocking of all the story beats through the social links that takes time what with the grinding needed, that it usually ends up taking over 100 hours to *completely beat a persona game*. And if getting the True ending for Wardor is 'completely beating' the game, then it's comparable in time.
~~~
To continue on my previous point:
Now, battlefront 2, that does boxes bad. It does it in Clash Royale style-unlock a card, it's usable forever, but in order to upgrade it you need to feed the same type of cards into it, and that starts making a difference. So spend more money, get more cards, have higher leveled cards, get ahead in a multiplayer game. That is bad, that is where loot boxes have influenced the game design, where you feel that you need to buy more and more boxes to stay competitive, because otherwise it'll be an extremely slow progression. It doesn't help that there seems to be a shitton of different types of star cards, thus diluting the pool and thus making it take even longer to level up the star cards you already have.
Wardor on the other hand, loot boxes provide orcs and stuff that speeds up training or speeds up other things. You can earn these orcs in game, there's just some work to it. For the training scrolls or whatever else they offer, it's like eh, sure? But you can game the system by simply brute force leveling orcs by continually dying to them, to increase the chances of an epic or legendary orc to appear. But the point being, reaching the final ending is possible without spending a dollar, and getting a strong army is possible without spending a dollar.
The difference here is the time it takes. For Wardor, if that game provides 80 hours, and if it's a fun game to replay, sure ok I can dig that. Battlefront 2 though, you won't even scratch the surface of the progression system if you spend 80 hours in the multiplayer, if it's anything like Clash royale, and it seems to be leaning that way what with the leveling of cards and how the card earning system works.
And IMO, that's fine? I was ready to throw Wardor into the pile of 'fuck this', but after mulling it over and thinking about how it's implemented, as well as reading MHWilliams replies and reading the other reviews, it doesn't seem that egregious?
Stealthcobra
Member
Sounds like I'll wait for the game to be $20
fastballspecial
Member
Wow. Fuck this game. I'm not going to touch this shit with a ten foot pole. Happily telling everyone I know that plays games to stay away too.
There are some really excellent, non-predatory games out right now that are worth everyone's time, without a doubt.
There are some really excellent, non-predatory games out right now that are worth everyone's time, without a doubt.
How is a game being long the same as putting a mindless grind in to specifically tempt you to spend money?
You are reaching hard to wash those corporate ballsacks, Breezy.
The extra time in a Persona game would be you unlocking extra story via Social Links.
Shits not the same....
I don't know about an automatic 0, but it seems clear that microtransactions and other freemium mechanics do not generally incur penalties from games critics. This is something that game players are being left to deal with themselves, which sucks and certainly contributes to the situation getting worse every year. Shame on critics who lavish games with 9s and 10s with nary a mention of the gross business practices hollowing out the experience from the inside.
We've reached the point where $60 AAA games have the same "player choices" as free-to-play mobile games and barely anyone even seems to care. When NBA2k, Forza, and Shadow of War sell gangbusters this year, it'll just be seen as a green light for more games to follow suit next year. Look forward to more and more intrusive monetization and parceling of premium games according to freemium models until the whole thing collapses in on itself or the industry finally provokes intrusive government regulation. And when that happens, remember that it was industry darlings like Blizzard and Monolith (the American ones) that led the way while "critics" cheered them on.
TatteredHat
Member
Unsurprisingly, lootboxes DO have an impact on gameplay.
KyanMehwulfe
Member
I liked it in Dragon Age INQ, No Man's Sky, etc, too. I think a game like Shadow of War, with its gameplay focus and crap story anyhow, is already like a 'DW Empires' equivalent of a dungeon crawler, so a grind suits me just find (as long as it's endgame content).
It's the post-ending end game, and I think open world games like this do a great thing when they include grinds for the folks that want to continue to play the game for a long time.
That said, I don't like when they add a "true ending" behind it but I also don't know yet if I agree with that choice of words. Is it a MGS V or MGS PW style 'true ending', where's it's not really the ending to the main story arc but a sort of epilogue? Because that I'm OK with. Or it is like Suikoden II or GTA V or something the 'main ending' is like one of the bad endings but the 'true ending' is obviously the only real conclusion to the main arc, then that's cheesy.
But again I'll hold my judgement until I see both endings, and whether or not I even care about the story and its endings to begin with.
Either way, I still think the lootbox stuff is shit, and if they 'balancing' of the game feels very purposeful to to promote RMT, that's shit, too. E.g. MGS V balancing never really promoted RMT at first but the later FOB stuff blatantly did; Deus Ex MD never really did; GTAO does it shamelessly.
To be sure, there's a difference between a great grind -- a grind that legitimately feels like it's meant to be a grind for gameplay reasons -- and a shit grind that feels it only exists to promote RMT.
So my devil's advocate here isn't excusing or even concluding anything yet on that. But I am happy to hear there are some endgame grinds, and I'll decide on whether they're good or not later.
TransTrender
Gold Member
Hah, that makes it sound more like Dungeon Keeper Mobile levels of bullshit.
"Why wait for the daily cooldown when you can just insert more money! Yay!"
Orpheum
Member
I loved the first game and even though i hate the current trend of Loot-Boxes and overall encouragement of spending real money on top of my 70 purchase, i waited it out to see how all of this unfolds and to be short, it's sickening.
This exact shit is the reason i won't be purchasing this game anytime soon. I have to admit i want to play it to experience the siege Battles and changes they've made to the first game. But never will i spend full price and buy a new copy, a used one should do just fine.
Shame on you WB and shame on every future developer/publisher who will implement this stuff
This exact shit is the reason i won't be purchasing this game anytime soon. I have to admit i want to play it to experience the siege Battles and changes they've made to the first game. But never will i spend full price and buy a new copy, a used one should do just fine.
Shame on you WB and shame on every future developer/publisher who will implement this stuff
Maximus P
Member
Video games were far more expensive back then and mostly had much less content.
Drillary Clinton
Banned
Yeah fuck this game
WrenchNinja
Member
This sounds really awful.
matrix-cat
Member
So Forza 7's 'new low in microtransactions' lasted, what, two days before WB came and sank lower? Who's going to take a shot at the title next?
It's like some people never played an RPG before.
Grinding is the bread and butter for most post game RPGs.
FFX you needed to complete the sphere grid before completing some optional bosses.
Dragon Quest you finish the main story at level 50 but have to grind to 99 to even take on optional bosses.
Tales of games have options to pay real money to get unlock post game content or new game plus content at the beginning like a 10 level boost or increase inventory space.
I would go on and on.
All I can say about it is Hold my Beer.
At least if you are impatient they give you an option to speed things up.
Grinding is the bread and butter for most post game RPGs.
FFX you needed to complete the sphere grid before completing some optional bosses.
Dragon Quest you finish the main story at level 50 but have to grind to 99 to even take on optional bosses.
Tales of games have options to pay real money to get unlock post game content or new game plus content at the beginning like a 10 level boost or increase inventory space.
I would go on and on.
All I can say about it is Hold my Beer.
At least if you are impatient they give you an option to speed things up.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
correct me if Im wrong but Its called optional bosses not a "true Ending"
2KNBA 17 seems to be as low as Forza 7 and SoW.
"True Endings" are generally optional as you have to do all the optional stuff to get it.
It's like doing a 100 floor dungeon to get an item to get the true ending. This dungeon has no bearing on the actual story on the game.
No it is not.
It is the final part of the story you followed when you started playing the game. Without it your experience is incomplete.
So this is what videogames are becoming. Fucking sad.
matrix-cat
Member
Publishers and devs don't include microtransactions out of the goodness of their hearts to help out busy gamers; if they wanted to do that they could just not make the game a grind in the first place. The microtransactions are there because they want you to buy them, and the grind is there to wear away at your patience until you do buy them.
Yes, plenty of RPGs have grinding, but a grind with a price tag attached is a different beast. I don't remember hearing about the first Shadow of Mordor having much grinding, but along comes the sequel with its microtransactions and, oh, hey, a 40 hour grind to boot. Anyone who seriously thinks this stuff doesn't affect the way a game is designed is kidding themselves.
2blackcats
Member
In a way I guess it is. Which makes it sound kinda shit but i for one am glad there is something to do this time after I finish the campaign. First game was too short and stupidly easy.
I like games like Disgaea though. Grinding can be fun.
Fuck loot boxes though.
TransTrender
Gold Member
I guess that's one way to look at it since the first one took about the same amount of time to complete the main story.
Funny you mention Disgaea because that was my limit on grinding. Lots of fun but when you get ~60% there for everything it really stops being rewarding for me. Item worlds and stuff are soo much fun but after a while i just have to turn it off.
Lupin the Third
Member
Surely someone else in the past 8 pages has noticed that the thread title has the wrong game in it...?
2blackcats
Member
Disgaea is certainly the grind king. I'm on my fourth save, about 130 hours on this one and I've never satisfactorily completed it.
But even game like Bloodborne, I love the grind. I know skilled players probably don't consider them that grindy though. I remember running the same bit over and over in Demon's Souls and I loved it.
5 pages but yeah, I believe so.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
The point is, it's unnecessary bloat that you need to go out of your way to accomplish. For Persona, usually what's required is a guide, saving and loading in case you miss something, and well, spending alot of time running around.
"It's easier to just see the social links through youtube."
The same can be argued about Wardors ending, it's going out of your way to grind through shit and finally see it after that grind.
"It's easier to see the true ending through youtube."
As far as me washing these corporate ballsacks, I'm not? All I'm saying is that it's not as egregious as some people are going. It's not as bad as Forza 7's or Battlefront 2's loot box systems, but it's not a good thing either. But, it's a grind, which alot of games had back in the day in order to get true endings or to beat the game. And that's fine?
Like..from the sounds of it, you're not coaxed to get the boxes, only if you want to progress faster? Whilst on the other hand, Forza 7 and Battlefront 2 it feels like you want to progress in either collection or the multiplayer progression, it feels like you'd need to dump some money into it?
Like...the reviews have said that the end will require heavy grinding if you opt out of the boxes. But it's not impossible. And in this day in age, sure, grinding is ok.
I still dislike loot boxes(And you can look in previous Wardor loot box threads, i was shitting on this game), but this implementation of loot boxes doesn't warrant the apocalypse. Battlefront 2's and Forza 7s on the other hand..
Lupin the Third
Member
50ppp because 100ppp screws with GAF URLs, and I had read the first and last pages before posting. So, 8 pages. Read back a few and still didn't see anyone mention it so I guess nobody cares or 90+% don't notice or aren't pedantic enough to comment.
Maximus P
Member
If you want to tell them to stop playing games with Microtransactions then there's a long list, it isn't just this game, and some are far more high profile such as Forza,Battlefront, GTA and Fifa. I doubt your friends are going to give up their hobby as some sort of rebellion.
I suggest just enjoying your games and not buying the extra content. Just like most of the reviewers in this case did.
How about just enjoying the game and watch the true ending on YouTube instead of grinding out a cutscene?
How about that?
I knew it.
The question is always if a lootbox in a singleplayer game affects the gameplay balance and turns out it did. No way they would have made it that tedius if they found out during playtests, if not lootboxes had been a thing. Companies don't implement them as "a fun way to just get extra stuff if you feel like it", they want you to buy them and gotta make you somehow.
The question is always if a lootbox in a singleplayer game affects the gameplay balance and turns out it did. No way they would have made it that tedius if they found out during playtests, if not lootboxes had been a thing. Companies don't implement them as "a fun way to just get extra stuff if you feel like it", they want you to buy them and gotta make you somehow.
AgentLampshade
Member
Top of page 3.
Lanrutcon
Member
And I suggest not supporting games that pull this shit. Contrary to popular belief: you don't need to support AAA bullshit to enjoy gaming. I find it amazing how some people's eyes widen in disbelief when someone even hints at avoiding AAA games.
"But but but how?!"
Easily, my friend.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
call of duty, overwatch, league of legends, heroes of the storm, dota 2, gta, fifa, forza, battlefront 2, PUBG...
...I mean all the biggest games, currently in the world, have a form of lootbox.
So
Uh