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This was the first time the most powerful console was immediately apparent

Malcolm9

Member
The Xbox vs PS2 comparison is kind of unfair though. They were released over one and half years apart. Especially during that time, the technological jumps were still quite large over relatively short periods of time. Obviously the Xbox was gonna come out better, plus MS (I believe) took a hit on each unit sold to really pump out a lot of power while keeping the price manageable. It was great but it arrived fairly late, same for the Gamecube.

True, but it never affected the sales of the PS2 either way. I remember my PS2 owning mates wanting me to bring it round with Rallisport 2, Chaos Theory, Halo, PGR 2 etc due to how class they were.

It also reminds me of now with the X coming a year after the Pro, there is no shock factor for me that the X runs at a higher resolution and has better textures in certain games, which is exactly what a machine should be capable of a year later to the party, and at a higher price point.
 

NicknameMy

Neo Member
Stop deluding yourself, it's a great console but it will never pass the PS4. Worldwide is far more important compared to Japan alone.

"Console X can never do as good/bad as this." You know how many times people already were wrong in terms of predicting?

Remember when people said PS4 will flop and XBox One will dominate?

Based on facts, the Switch is selling at the same pace as the PS4 in its first year. That is all we can use at the moment.
 

Malcolm9

Member
"Console X can never do as good/bad as this." You know how many times people already were wrong in terms of predicting?

Remember when people said PS4 will flop and XBox One will dominate?

Based on facts, the Switch is selling at the same pace as the PS4 in its first year. That is all we can use at the moment.

The PS4 is still selling like hotcakes, how would the Switch ever catch it? Please use some common sense here rather than fantasy.
 

iidesuyo

Member
PS2 vs Game Cube/XBox is very unfair, those machines were 18 months apart.

Back then hardware specs improved much faster than today.
 

NicknameMy

Neo Member
The PS4 is still selling like hotcakes, how would the Switch ever catch it? Please use some common sense here rather than fantasy.

That is because Consoles sell best in year 3-5 because of reduced price and existing library.

And maybe you need to use some common sense cuz Pokemon exists.^^
 

LCGeek

formerly sane
Yeah, there was absolutely zero question over the Xbox being the strongest that generation. Nobody seriously considered the Gamecube being more powerful, and while the PS2 had a couple cool tricks (alpha transparencies = no problemo!) there was no way either competitor was going to touch games like DOA2U, Rallisport Challenge 2, or Chronicles of Riddick.

Doesn't mean much when Factor 5 did the most with GCN/Wii architecture than anyone amongst the 4 console of that generation. Global illumination and light scattering are still things devs strive for today but they did it literally on fixed TnL based system with a TEV.

PS2 vs Game Cube/XBox is very unfair, those machines were 18 months apart.

Back then hardware specs improved much faster than today.

Doesn't stop any of the mentioned vs DC comparisons despite the base arcade hardware being much older.

.
 

Blood Borne

Member
PS1 vs N64 will always be unique to me. Because even though N64 had better specs on paper, PS1 games just looked better and aged better than N64 games in my opinion. I hated the way N64 rendered colors.

I guess a good analogy is, the faster car doesn't always win the race, the driver plays a huge part as well.
 

Megatron

Member
I mean in comparison to the N64 and PS1, it released and was immediately superior to them vastly. The PS2 was not when it first released, but the Xbox and GCN were i'd say with titles like Halo and RL.

Like I said though, I might have missed the spirit of the topic, still. The generation concept is always a bit wonky since DC kind of shares one depending on who you ask. A lot of people don't even know where to place Switch, heh.

Dreamcast was gen 6, ps1/n64 was gen 5. The Saturn was Sega's gen 5 system. The ps2 released a year after the dreamcast.
 
PS1 vs N64 will always be unique to me. Because even though N64 had better specs on paper, PS1 games just looked better and aged better than N64 games in my opinion. I hated the way N64 rendered colors.

I guess a good analogy is, the faster car doesn't always win the race, the driver plays a huge part as well.

It's kind of a strange situation because the PS1 came out in 1994 vs N64 in 1996. Then there's the fact that the PS1 had more ram, a disc drive, could produce a lot more colours vs the N64 being hamstrung by the cartridges in particular and weird management decisions with regards to devs and it's not strange to see how things turned out the way they did. Also makes sense why you'd like the colours more on the PS1, N64 could do the same amount when the expansion pack came though but that was too little too late.

Still though, in the right hands the N64 was a fucking beast. Rareware squeezed out graphical fidelity you'd expect on the Dreamcast.
 

Journey

Banned
I think it was more due to the fact that the system detailed spec's, specifically exactly how many Compute Units and more were leaked and not only that, but it was a 1:1 comparison both using similar architectures. GameCube and Xbox had clear differences in power, the GameCube had 40MB of ram Vs 64MB for Xbox, but also the GPU in Xbox was derived of the Geforce 3 and basically a full generation ahead of what was in the GameCube.

As you mentioned, if we relied on Rogue Squadron to compare to other Xbox games, and did the same for PS4 vs Xbox One, then looking at Ryse: Son of Rome as a launch title would basically beat any launch PS4 title graphically IMO. So it wasn't so much the software, but also having sites like DF and pixel counters is something we didn't have during GameCube vs Xbox. Using just your eyes to compare, especially when not everyone had an HDTV to take advantage of some of the higher res Xbox games, it's really hard, we wouldn't be able to tell the difference between PS4 and Xbox One at all if it weren't for all the tools/knowledge we have today.


Check out this comparison between Xbox, PS2 and GC. The difference was much more stark than PS4 vs Xbox One.

The Xbox version textures look so damn sharp! and the lighting.... good lord!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dc0bkasI1LU
 
Its wrong and just bait for console wars, there are some PS4 Pro games that performed worst then the base model... there are some xbox games that performed better then there ps4 counterpart... not because the systems are not capable, but at the end of the day its up to the skill of the developers.
All xbox one x patches are not equal, all ps4 games are not made equal... the power debate is silly, its just fankids fighting over there system being better. I think minecraft looks like poop, and i dont know why anyone plays it...but people love it.... i think every switch 1st party game looks like crap compared to x1/ps4/pc....but people have fun playing them. When did the graphics become more important then the fun, and gameplay? When threads like this, and my system is better then yours thread are made.

I agree that fan based comparisons and console wars suck, but I strongly disagree that a gaming forum is not the place for discussions about graphics and system capabilities.
 

iidesuyo

Member
Still though, in the right hands the N64 was a fucking beast. Rareware squeezed out graphical fidelity you'd expect on the Dreamcast.

But whenever someone tried to really squeeze the hardware, the framerate went down to hell.

I'd rather have a so-so looking game with good gameplay at 30fps than something like Perfect Dark with its slideshow framerate.

My opinion.
 

LCGeek

formerly sane
I think it was more due to the fact that the system detailed spec's, specifically exactly how many Compute Units and more were leaked and not only that, but it was a 1:1 comparison both using similar architectures. GameCube and Xbox had clear differences in power, the GameCube had 40MB of ram Vs 64MB for Xbox, but also the GPU in Xbox was derived of the Geforce 3 and basically a full generation ahead of what was in the GameCube.

As you mentioned, if we relied on Rogue Squadron to compare to other Xbox games, and did the same for PS4 vs Xbox One, then looking at Ryse: Son of Rome as a launch title would basically beat any launch PS4 title graphically IMO. So it wasn't so much the software, but also having sites like DF and pixel counters is something we didn't have during GameCube vs Xbox. Using just your eyes to compare, especially when not everyone had an HDTV to take advantage of some of the higher res Xbox games, it's really hard, we wouldn't be able to tell the difference between PS4 and Xbox One at all if it weren't for all the tools/knowledge we have today.


Check out this comparison between Xbox, PS2 and GC. The difference was much more stark than PS4 vs Xbox One.

The Xbox version textures look so damn sharp! and the lighting.... good lord!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dc0bkasI1LU

We had pixel counting during that generation especially when progressive scan and basic HD were factors in the console titles.

Rebel Strike is also doing more than launch rogue squadron. Rebel Strike is insane accomplishment considering it sports a beefed up lighting engine featuring what I mentioned and has split screen mode coop of the titles. The xbox titles never came about and the conversion wasn't nearly as some had hoped for which is a testament to what GCN could do if you had Factor5 talent.

Using sc cube is travesty considering the port is utter shit and can't take on various cube titles including ubisoft own titles. The lighting engine is utter joke compared to what capcom, nintendo, and factor 5 did at various times. The cube was capable of much more than basically what is a PS2 up port that still had problems.
 

DonF

Member
xbone was less powerful and more expensive, a pretty bad combo.
Given that this generation both console makers went with the same architecture, the difference was immediate. Only excuse I remember at the beginning of the generation was that since microsoft made direct x, all xbone game were super optimized, vs the dirty code of the ps4.
Oh and the mysterious dual processor or something, which turned out to be obviously false.
Now the X is obviously more powerful and more expensive, but it lacks the games. I try to go with the console that gives me more value, and the x looks like a good proposition, but when you think about the exclusives (non existent since all the games are also released on PC) and my huge digital catalog on playstation, i can't justify the X.
 

oblo

Member
I worked at a gamestore (think Gamestop just without the name, we don't have these in our region mainly because our chain is here) from early 2008 until a few weeks after the Switch launched, let me just say this: the actual power and capabilities of a piece of hardware are very rarely an important factor when customers make their choice. I'm of course only talking about the customers we got in our brick'n'mortar store, don't get me wrong a big percentage of customers were actual hardcore gamers, in fact, I'm pretty sure the average customer there plays more hours a week than the average NeoGAF visitor does, just... You know, they play less informed and I would guess a lot of the "better informed" gamers buy online or wherever the price is cheapest, and that definately wasn't us.

What they believe to be the most powerful console, yeah, that did seem to matter a little more... But to be honest, it usually sounded more like them trying to convince themselves. I mean, for example current gen I heard talk about superior performance more from Xbox fans than Sony people and a little thing to consider here: we sold like 1 Xbox One for every 20 PS4's (and about 0,4 Wii U's, the numbers are completely made up, but they do feel about right) and of course also they were obviously wrong in their beliefs. From my first day at the job until the very last one, most customers were cocksure PS2 was the most powerful home console of its generation, so yeah, there's that.

For the most part the only customers talking about specs and making any kind of sense were PC gamers, of course as a platform when talking pure power it has always been king so they were usually talking about their own specs... Super interesting. Also, they hardly ever talked about games, a special breed those PC gamers still visiting physical stores.

So yes, the games, exclusives! That's the real driving force behind system sales, right? Right? Well, like the first year or two of PS4 & Xbox One I would have given that crown to MS easily, as I saw it they had way more console (pretty important distinction here) exclusives than Sony, most exclusive things worth playing on PS4 were actually PS3 games, meanwhile Wii U had a fairly decent line-up of real exclusives (and of course, zero third party games, that too). Hardware sales went the opposite direction though and not even a little bit.

And now we have the Switch. As a home console? Worst performance on the market. Oh, yes, the innovation! Hardware really is just an evolution of Wii U with three BIG upgrades:

  1. Doesn't have a name that confuses the f*** out of its audience.
  2. Doesn't look like my first gaming device by Fisher-Price.
  3. Actually portable.
Exclusive games? Going by Metacritic, Mario is a recent topnotch exclusive no doubt about it, rest of top three are Wii U games, rest of top ten is playable on other systems. Also f*** BC, that's a first for Nintendo, right? But look at that little system go!

... And I didn't even mention the Wii yet, specs were plain silly, sales numbers pretty nice, it would have outsold the Wii U holidays 2016 for sure if it was still being produced and that's just insane (it didn't sell a whole lot besides the holidays last couple of years before that though).

My point is just that after almost a decade working at a gamestore I still have no clue why people buy what they buy so I really doubt OP's theory is correct without changing "many" into "some".
 
The crazy part was that the more powerful console was less expensive than its competitor as well.

That was the biggest problem right there. Microsoft wanted $100 more for the less powerful yet much larger console. It was very confusing since the selling point of the higher price was a peripheral nobody wanted, so to most everybody it was just more money for less of a product. They stabilized themselves but they lynched their damn selves in the first place.
 
Wrong.

99% of all gamers don’t know shit sbout anything.

This.

Ironically, the generation you mention where 'everyone' knows which is superior (PS4 v XB One) is the point in which we can barely tell versions apart at a glance. This is the gen where we are better informed with DF pixel counts but i'd strongly argue that parity issues were a problem last gen more so and maybe worse before that.
 

Shifty

Member
Honestly I think the marketing faceplant contributed more to xbox's perceived failings this gen than anything else.

OG Xbox vs PS2 / GC is probably the most clear cut case.
 

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
I remember playing max Payne 2 on my friends xbox and I was very impressed how much better it was compared to the ps2 version.
 
Honestly I think the marketing faceplant contributed more to xbox's perceived failings this gen than anything else.

OG Xbox vs PS2 / GC is probably the most clear cut case.

As a PS2 owner i remember the XB>PS2 port of Spliter Cell and the GC>PS2 port of RE4 - made a pretty good example of where the power lay that generation.

GC used to really surprise at times - on PS2 games like GoW2 and Shadow of the Collosus were good examples of what was possible despite the slower hardware
 

Dalauz

Member
Eh, I think the Colecovision Just look at Donkey Kong on the 2600 and it's pretty obvious.

and HERO

s_Hero_3.png


2600



maxresdefault.jpg


Coleco/C64
 

Breakage

Member
Thinking back, it was immediately clear that the original Xbox was more powerful than its sixth generation competitors. Halo's textures, the crisp slickness of early games such as PGR, JSRF and DOA3 to name a few set the Xbox apart. The power difference only become more apparent with games such as Ninja Gaiden Black and Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory.
 

ReBurn

Gold Member
Thinking back, it was immediately clear that the original Xbox was more powerful than its sixth generation competitors. Halo's textures, the crisp slickness of games such as PGR, JSRF and DOA3 to name a few set the Xbox apart. The power difference only become more apparent with games such as Ninja Gaiden Black and Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory.

And a Prince of Persia Sands of Time. Xbox was the definitive version at the time.
 

magnumpy

Member
Well, if you want to play the games with a console experience then they are exclusives.

I keep saying this, but their are only two big GPU vendors: nvidia and ati. all consoles use one of the two for their GPU. all PCs use one of the two for their GPU. if you're playing videogames, on console or on PC, you're using one of the two. what is that old saying, "the more things change the more they stay the same"
 

JordanN

Banned
Most obvious bait I've ever seen holy hell

Don't know why this is controversial.

I still remember when the Tflops numbers came out.

It was the 1.8 Tflop PS4 vs the 1.3 Tflop XBO. Since both used AMD GPU's and CPU's, there was no argument about which architecture was better.
 

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
This gen is probably one of the smallest differences Compared to others. While resolution does make a difference. I remember ps3 games really looking worse Compared to 360 games, it wasnt just resolution but textures,AA, effects and framerate.
However PS3 Exclusives and the fact that many games had parity and a rare few being better on the ps3, made the 360's visual advantage less impactful overall.

I think it was a bigger deal this gen and going foward because comparisons are getting even more sophisticated. We now have 4k 60fps youtube and the ability to download native video files, so seeing the differences is easier then previous gens.
 
Visually?
I was blown away by Rogue Squadron when I saw it running at Target.
It didn't seem possible and yet. Then taking it home and seeing cloud city.


And then Riddick on XBOX



And then RSIII on GameCube which ran RSII in split screen at 60fps. WTF.
 

SonicSleuth

Member
Forza Motorsport
Forza Horizon
Gears of war
Cup head
Recore
Ori and the blind forest

To name a few.

That is freaking depressing. As someone who bought Ryse, Quantum Break, and Sunset Overdrive at release, I'm incredibly disappointed that people are continuing to focus on tired concepts like Forza and Gears of War. I mean, they're great looking or whatever, but who cares? Microsoft can do interesting games, they're just choosing not to at this point.

And Cuphead... come on. Are we going to keep pretending that this is a great game, just because it's a cartoon? Great. Okay, it's a cartoon. It was hard to make. 90% of gamers* still have zero desire to play it.

*a number I made up, but I stand by it
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
And Cuphead... come on. Are we going to keep pretending that this is a great game, just because it's a cartoon? Great. Okay, it's a cartoon. It was hard to make. 90% of gamers* still have zero desire to play it.

*a number I made up, but I stand by it
Colin_Farrel-Disgusted.gif
 

jobrro

Member
Xbox One X definetly the most powerful

This thread seems to be about the base consoles.

It is true the Xbox One X is now the most powerful, but they had a year and a $100 premium over the PS4 Pro.

The PS4 and Xbone came out within a week of each other and the less powerful console was $100 more (Kinect included, but still). There is a significant differential between the GPU capabilities of the base Xbone vs. PS4 just like there is between the Pro and X (around 40% for both).

I think Xbox One X is a clear signal that MS won't be making the same mistakes again that they did with the OG Xbone.

I think this thread is somewhat true mostly because the two powerhouse consoles basically released at the same time. Sure we knew the Xbox was more powerful than the PS2 but it released much later. The PS3 had some wonderful exclusives and the occasionally superior multiplat but early in the gen at least the X360 matched it or outright beat it mosty of the time making those waters pretty murky. People still debate Sat, PSX and N64, SNES vs MegaDrive and a lot of those didn't come out too close to one another.

PS4 was very similar architecture to Xbone, but outright better GPU and bandwidth wise with a slightly slower CPU.
 

OldBoyGamer

Banned
Interesting point but I'm not sure it's as black and white as you think.

The Playstation was clearly more powerful than the N64. The PS3 was clearly more powerful than the XB360 (wasn't it??).

Also - this isn't the start of a new generation. The 1 and the Pro are faster versions of the base consoles. This is mid generation really.

From a 'power' POV. We can't really use games as a benchmark simply because different resources are given to individual games. You can't use GTSport versus Forza7 to compare the power of the respective consoles for example because one has had a lot more money spent on it than the other. So you can only use them to compare two racing games - which one is better?
 

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
Also people will say ps3 Exclusives prove the ps3 is more powerful, but that logic is flawed.
For all we know the last of us, god of war etc could look better then the ps3 version due to the 360's better GPU and RAM setup.
 

JordanN

Banned
Also people will say ps3 Exclusives prove the ps3 is more powerful, but that logic is flawed.
For all we know the last of us, god of war etc could look better then the ps3 version due to the 360's better GPU and RAM setup.

But wouldn't that require the 360 having better looking games to begin with?

Once developers did master the cell in PS3, multiplats started to favor it over 360 versions.
 

Junahu

Member
Even if you ignore everything before Nintendo (but why would you?)...

SG-1000 Vs Nintendo Entertainment System
 
Not sure if these past 2 generations people already knew beforehand who was the most powerful, but surely people knew who was more likely to win the generation.
Not based on the power, but based on the price. Sony managed to alienate a huge portion of their userbase with PS3's price, and MS managed to send them back to Sony with Xbone's price + mandatory Kinect.
 

stranno

Member

Nikodemos

Member
Nintendo 64 had much more features than Playstation.
PS1 was less powerful, but Nintendo were 100% eager to be Nintendo, thus placed all sorts of arbitrary restrictions on devs (crappy texture cache and cartridge storage being only a couple of them).
 
What they believe to be the most powerful console, yeah, that did seem to matter a little more... But to be honest, it usually sounded more like them trying to convince themselves. I mean, for example current gen I heard talk about superior performance more from Xbox fans than Sony people and a little thing to consider here: we sold like 1 Xbox One for every 20 PS4's (and about 0,4 Wii U's, the numbers are completely made up, but they do feel about right) and of course also they were obviously wrong in their beliefs. From my first day at the job until the very last one, most customers were cocksure PS2 was the most powerful home console of its generation, so yeah, there's that.

For the most part the only customers talking about specs and making any kind of sense were PC gamers, of course as a platform when talking pure power it has always been king so they were usually talking about their own specs... Super interesting. Also, they hardly ever talked about games, a special breed those PC gamers still visiting physical stores.

So yes, the games, exclusives! That's the real driving force behind system sales, right? Right? Well, like the first year or two of PS4 & Xbox One I would have given that crown to MS easily, as I saw it they had way more console (pretty important distinction here) exclusives than Sony, most exclusive things worth playing on PS4 were actually PS3 games, meanwhile Wii U had a fairly decent line-up of real exclusives (and of course, zero third party games, that too). ".

So what you're saying is that the people that bought the Xbox One at launch were the ones that convinced themselves that it was more powerful than the PS4. For everyone else, it was pretty apparent that the PS4 was more powerful and it vastly outsold the Xbox One despite the Xbox One having a ton of great exclusive games during its first year

Likewise, the hype for the One X is vastly higher than it was for the Pro because it is percieved as significantly more powerful and the One X is selling gangbusters.

The Switch is by far the most powerful gaming handheld ever made, and I think it's sales reflect this fact.

In the past, power was obscured by vastly different architectures, lack of sites like digital foundry and the sales were all over the place.

This is the first generation where the architectures are so similar that it's obvious which is more powerful and the sales align with the power level.
 
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