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[Cybrwzrd]

People liked and chose to work in minstrel shows. People liking and wanting to work in a place has next to nothing to do with this argument.

F1 is a product people are selling. People are allowed to comment on aspects of that product that they liked or didn't like. If I'm watching a TV show that's constantly interspersed with random half naked dudes, then I'm allowed to complain about that.

Minstrel shows didn't end because people stopped being racist. They ended because there was no more demand for them and people moved on to new forms of entertainment.

There is no economic reason to end this other than due to that it is apparently "clearly is at odds with modern day societal norms" per the F1 website. This is the same sort of crap as censoring video games for western consumption.

 

[Makariel]

Hasn't f1 lost a lot of its popularity in recent years? Could just be a part of an attempt to reverse that trend.

I think there was a dip in 2016 because the season was quite frankly boring as watching paint dry. Got better in 2017 again, but once it was clear who the champion is it went down again. What you might expect.

If it's to gain popularity, do you really think those who don't watch F1 right now would start to tune in now because grid girls are banned?

I've already given some examples earlier. Please do ask if you have any other questions.

You made some vague statement about most visible women only there for being pretty, while I find the most visible women in F1 being Claire Williams and until last year Monisha Kaltenborn. I also don't think feminists would be happy if they would just rename them into brand ambassadors. And if that would really satsify them, that would be very stupid since it would not actually change anything, no?

Also please don't think I'm shitting on F1, I'm sure they're all nice people and work very hard at what they do.

Just a question in between: do you actually watch F1?

I just think the image of a bunch interesting male participants and a bunch attractive female non-participants is the tale of our culture immemorial and it's just grown old to some people.

So, preventing a number of women from doing a job they like does help that how exactly?

You also make the argument it's about F1 being a product being sold, do you really think that banning women from doing this job will help f1 as a commercial product?

 

[Moneal]

Minstrel shows didn't end because people stopped being racist. They ended because there was no more demand for them and people moved on to new forms of entertainment.

There is no economic reason to end this other than due to that it is apparently "clearly is at odds with modern day societal norms" per the F1 website. This is the same sort of crap as censoring video games for western consumption.

Yep, I'm pretty sure Minstrel shows died due to the rise of animation. It was cheaper and easier to produce.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

I think there was a dip in 2016 because the season was quite frankly boring as watching paint dry. Got better in 2017 again, but once it was clear who the champion is it went down again. What you might expect.

If it's to gain popularity, do you really think those who don't watch F1 right now would start to tune in now because grid girls are banned?

Not in large enough numbers to really matter, no. But I'd guess this is more about the image of the sport and them wanting to change it. I'm not defending their decision, just saying theres more to it than them being bullied into it by twitter activists.

 

[Makariel]

Not in large enough numbers to really matter, no. But I'd guess this is more about the image of the sport and them wanting to change it.

I guess they have their market research teams working overtime, trying to figure out how to get more money out of this international circus. But on the other hand I'm not sure if banning them outright was such a good move, why not e.g. have a 50:50 split of women and men holding numbers into the camera?

 

[TheGraykid]

Minstrel shows didn't end because people stopped being racist. They ended because there was no more demand for them and people moved on to new forms of entertainment.

There is no economic reason to end this other than due to that it is apparently "clearly is at odds with modern day societal norms" per the F1 website. This is the same sort of crap as censoring video games for western consumption.

I slightly disagree. I think they ended not because people stopped being racist, they stopped because people became less palatable to that type of racism, especially when there are other types of entertainment available. There's a reason minstrel became less successful in the North of the USA, way before it did in the south. I think it's hard to ignore changing attitudes also having an effect on this.

And there is an economic reason to end this, people have become less palatable to this type of "sexism" and so this is bringing them negative publicity which is a bad thing for any big market sponsored product.

I think there was a dip in 2016 because the season was quite frankly boring as watching paint dry. Got better in 2017 again, but once it was clear who the champion is it went down again. What you might expect.

If it's to gain popularity, do you really think those who don't watch F1 right now would start to tune in now because grid girls are banned?

You made some vague statement about most visible women only there for being pretty, while I find the most visible women in F1 being Claire Williams and until last year Monisha Kaltenborn. I also don't think feminists would be happy if they would just rename them into brand ambassadors. And if that would really satsify them, that would be very stupid since it would not actually change anything, no?


Just a question in between: do you actually watch F1?


So, preventing a number of women from doing a job they like does help that how exactly?

You also make the argument it's about F1 being a product being sold, do you really think that banning women from doing this job will help f1 as a commercial product?

F1 is a heavily sponsored product, that's who they ultimately are probably making this decision for. That's how it helps F1, the commercial product.

When I say brand ambassador, I mean they would now be able to dress however they want, but you'd still change the function of the role heavily. Lean away from having the women only there as eye candy.

People like being paid relatively well to do stuff. It's unfortunate that they'll lose their jobs, but, that doesn't make the point people make against grid girls less potent to me.

I've watched quite a few races and got really into Motorsport Manager for a while. Do you think there's a piece of context here I'm missing? When I do watch races I do see way more of grid girls than someone like Claire Williams.

 

[God Enel]

But.. why? I like seeing them

Some times I think people dont have any other problems and come up with this.. shit?

 

[plasmawave]

Why are we comparing Grid Girls to minstrel shows???

 

[Cybrwzrd]

Why are we comparing Grid Girls to minstrel shows???

I wish I knew why. But that is how these types make arguments. Throw out a fallacy and then force people to debate another topic.

 

[TheGraykid]

I wish I knew why. But that is how these types make arguments. Throw out a fallacy and then force people to debate another topic.

That is so not the case. Your argument was that people liked and wanted to work for a place, therefore there is nothing wrong with it. I disagree with that. So I presented a situation where people liked and wanted to work at a place, and yet the potential cultural arguments you may have for that work still remains. Please do tell me if I'm mischaracterizing things.

 

[Moneal]

That is so not the case. Your argument was that people liked and wanted to work for a place, therefore there is nothing wrong with it. I disagree with that. So I presented a situation where people liked and wanted to work at a place, and yet the potential cultural arguments you may have for that work still remains. Please do tell me if I'm mischaracterizing things.

But minstrel shows didn't go out because of cultural issues. they went out with the rise of animation. you can see this in the early animation being quite similar to minstrel shows. Even mickey mouse has similarities with minstrel characters. The entertainment form moved on to something else.

 

[Cybrwzrd]

But minstrel shows didn't go out because of cultural issues. they went out with the rise of animation. you can see this in the early animation being quite similar to minstrel shows. Even mickey mouse has similarities with minstrel characters. The entertainment form moved on to something else.

Actually, professional minstrel shows died even earlier than animation. Vaudeville took the stage and and the profitability went away as they needed to compete with the more varied acts it offered. Yes, they continued on in some form after than as amateur acts or as references in animation and TV, but by the days of the first Mickey Mouse cartoons, there weren't professional minstrel shows touring the country.

 

[TheGraykid]

But minstrel shows didn't go out because of cultural issues. they went out with the rise of animation. you can see this in the early animation being quite similar to minstrel shows. Even mickey mouse has similarities with minstrel characters. The entertainment form moved on to something else.

Hmm, I didn't know that. I would have to look into it more. However, I will say animation has always been able to get away with racism that would never be allowed in live action. For example, Mr Popo in dragon ball z, the crows in Dumbo, the mammy in Tom and Jerry. I saw those things on TV when I was a kid, and I am not an old man. Culturally none of those things would have been permitted in live action.

 

[gioGAF]

Sucks for them. The current climate is terrible. Who makes up the rules? Why are "grid girls" not okay and who determines that? I can't believe they lost their jobs for the "cause". smh

 

[Cybrwzrd]

That is so not the case. Your argument was that people liked and wanted to work for a place, therefore there is nothing wrong with it. I disagree with that. So I presented a situation where people liked and wanted to work at a place, and yet the potential cultural arguments you may have for that work still remains. Please do tell me if I'm mischaracterizing things.

Its a disingenuous argument, and a red herring and a bad analogy. There are many other situations where people lose their jobs and want to keep working as well, but you chose a charged topic to make an argument with, and you don't even know the history of minstrel shows. So yeah, you are either threadshitting or just arguing in bad faith.

 

[TheGraykid]

Its a disingenuous argument, and a red herring and a bad analogy. There are many other situations where people lose their jobs and want to keep working as well, but you chose a charged topic to make an argument with, and you don't even know the history of minstrel shows. So yeah, you are either threadshitting or just arguing in bad faith.

I disagree. The analogy I wanted to pull wasn't just a situation where people lose their jobs and want to keep working as well, I wanted an analogy where a substantive reason why the job was being lost is due to a change in cultural sensibilities by the public. So there. As a black man I also wanted to pick something close to home in order to better center myself within the debate. We're already in a somewhat charged topic, as you can probably tell by all the reactions to this news here. I don't see how anything I said is arguing in bad faith and I feel like it's pretty counterproductive to even have this specific "bad faith" discussion in the first place

 

[SDCowboy]

Can we EVER have a movement in this country anymore that doesn't eventually go too far, to the point of absurdity?

 

[luxsol]

This is ridiculous. Seriously, why is this new generation so sexually conservative?

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Back in my day, the busy bodies were republicans/conservatives, but now it's the people that i thought i was part of, but i guess it's only just extremists (and it was true back then).
These people know better than you; they will dictate how you should live your life, what you should like, and what you should be offended by.

It's no different than the parent groups and kids i used to mock back in the day and it's no different now, except i learned years ago that i can't change their view, because they're so beholden to their views that i might as well be a mouse to them.

 

[SatansReverence]

If you ever needed to know why the term "feminazi" was coined and now used, this is it.

Unfortunately, for some reason corporations think that they need to bend to the will of these militant alt left nutjobs when in truth they could be entirely ignored with zero repercussions. The only power they have is the power they're allowed to have. Ignore them entirely for just 1 year and 99% of the "movement" will die out and we can get back to genuine issues about inequalities and the like.

 

[Dunki]

I disagree. The analogy I wanted to pull wasn't just a situation where people lose their jobs and want to keep working as well, I wanted an analogy where a substantive reason why the job was being lost is due to a change in cultural sensibilities by the public. So there. As a black man I also wanted to pick something close to home in order to better center myself within the debate. We're already in a somewhat charged topic, as you can probably tell by all the reactions to this news here. I don't see how anything I said is arguing in bad faith and I feel like it's pretty counterproductive to even have this specific "bad faith" discussion in the first place

what change in cultural sensibilities? A very minor but really loud and insane minority is not a sign of changing cultural sensibilities. Its a sign of people being crazy and stupid.

 

[Cybrwzrd]

I disagree. The analogy I wanted to pull wasn't just a situation where people lose their jobs and want to keep working as well, I wanted an analogy where a substantive reason why the job was being lost is due to a change in cultural sensibilities by the public. So there. As a black man I also wanted to pick something close to home in order to better center myself within the debate. We're already in a somewhat charged topic, as you can probably tell by all the reactions to this news here. I don't see how anything I said is arguing in bad faith and I feel like it's pretty counterproductive to even have this specific "bad faith" discussion in the first place

Again, minstrel shows didn't go away because of social change. It doesn't matter if you are blue, green or plaid with rainbow polka-dots, it isn't important to a discussion on Grid Girls. That is another red herring to throw the debate off topic.

 

[Sinfamy]

No opinion on the topic at hand, however, hear me now, quote me later, cheerleading won't be around for long.

 

[Musky_Cheese]

If you ever needed to know why the term "feminazi" was coined and now used, this is it.

Unfortunately, for some reason corporations think that they need to bend to the will of these militant alt left nutjobs when in truth they could be entirely ignored with zero repercussions. The only power they have is the power they're allowed to have. Ignore them entirely for just 1 year and 99% of the "movement" will die out and we can get back to genuine issues about inequalities and the like.

Pretty much.

Member the days when organizations only cared about their consumer base.

 

[caffeware]

So a sex less, gender agnostic world. Japan was just ahead of the curb.

 

[HarryKS]

This is nothing new. Something similar happened in France in the 90s. Models in lingerie had to lose their jobs and earnings because scraggly or otherwise unattractive women ( From the Chiennes de garde group ) protested.

 

[Droxcy]

It's insane how much things have changed for the better or worse in the last 10+ years. People taking things a little too far now a days.

 

[Kadayi]

F1 is a product people are selling. People are allowed to comment on aspects of that product that they liked or didn't like. If I'm watching a TV show that's constantly interspersed with random half naked dudes, then I'm allowed to complain about that.

Maybe don't watch it?

 

[llien]

The bottom line here is sex negative people won.
If you are sex positive, "sexual objects" is a natural thing, people of both genders need to enjoy sex.
And if you think, that such objects exist only for men, scroll through the images below.

So grid guys are not a novelty, so they do exist in the same amount as grid girls?

Isn't that about supply and demand? What % of F1 viewers is female?

 

[Sunster]

Maybe don't watch it?

yea, don't watch but complain first. companies value the input of consumers. that's why they did this.

 

[llien]

An interesting read (2013)

A Cold War Fought By Women (The NY Times)

One of these outfits worn in Dr. Tracy Vaillancourt's study on female aggression provoked a sort of "mean girl" form of indirect aggression. The other attracted little notice at all.

To see how female students react to a rival, researchers brought pairs of them into a laboratory at McMaster University for what was ostensibly a discussion about female friendships. But the real experiment began when another young woman entered the room asking where to find one of the researchers.
...
In jeans, she attracted little notice and no negative comments from the students, whose reactions were being secretly recorded during the encounter and after the woman left the room. But when she wore the other outfit, virtually all the students reacted with hostility.

They stared at her, looked her up and down, rolled their eyes and sometimes showed outright anger. One asked her in disgust, “What the [expletive] is that?”

Most of the aggression, though, happened after she left the room. Then the students laughed about her and impugned her motives. One student suggested that she dressed that way in order to have sex with a professor. Another said that her breasts “were about to pop out.”

 

[SatansReverence]

An interesting read (2013)

A Cold War Fought By Women (The NY Times)

One of these outfits worn in Dr. Tracy Vaillancourt's study on female aggression provoked a sort of "mean girl" form of indirect aggression. The other attracted little notice at all.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out this is an issue of basic female biology.

Women who perceive themselves as less attractive are doing what ever they can to knock down other women to try and make themselves feel better. It's been a thing forever and is a basic part of female (and male for that matter) biology. Defeat your perceived enemy so you seem like more of an interesting mating partner to prospective males thus having a higher chance to procreate and carry on your genealogy.

 

[TheGraykid]

what change in cultural sensibilities? A very minor but really loud and insane minority is not a sign of changing cultural sensibilities. Its a sign of people being crazy and stupid.

I think pretty much any change in cultural sensibilities can at some point be summed up as "A very minor but really loud and insane minority". I think it being a minority has no bearing on the argument. If you consider the actual argument as a standalone point then I think you'll find its not as crazy and stupid as you think now. I don't think this argument is about the merits of feminism, but we seem to end up going there.

Again, minstrel shows didn't go away because of social change. It doesn't matter if you are blue, green or plaid with rainbow polka-dots, it isn't important to a discussion on Grid Girls. That is another red herring to throw the debate off topic.

What I'm writing is just me personally trying to think through this, therefore me deciding to put this in terms more relatable to me in order to better understand where people are coming from isn't really a red herring in my view. But whatever, drive home safely.

Maybe don't watch it?

I don't think commenting on something and not watching something are mutually exclusive. People are allowed to share their views, if you think the views are stupid that's fine.

The bottom line here is sex negative people won.
If you are sex positive, "sexual objects" is a natural thing, people of both genders need to enjoy sex.
And if you think, that such objects exist only for men, scroll through the images below.


Isn't that about supply and demand? What % of F1 viewers is female?

I disagree. I don't think this is solely about the presence of sex objects, it's about the presence of female sexual objects in wider culture compared to the level of actual female participation within that culture. The front covers of erotic novels doesn't really validate your argument to me. One, erotic novels are a tiny part of culture in comparison to sporting events so I don't think we can use them to say "males are sexual objects too", because it's not nearly to the same degree. Two, erotic novels exist purely to titillate, so the presence of sexual objects there makes way more sense than at sporting events.

In regards to the "supply demand" argument.

I think a lot of people would say that women may be put off by the presence of grid girls, or that grid girls may place a soft cap on the amount of women who might even get into F1. Also there is the question of should supply and demand dictate where you take your sport.

 

[llien]

One, erotic novels are a tiny part of culture in comparison to sporting events so I don't think we can use them to say "males are sexual objects too", because it's not nearly to the same degree.

First, it doesn't matter how widespread male objects are, their existence is a fact. Typical male object: lean muscular body, perfect skin, mid age, rich.
Second, in 2015, in UK alone (population of 60 million) 39 million (physical) erotic books have been sold. I'd call it pretty massive.

And I am not sure you got my point: from sex positive POV: regularly having sex is healthy, masturbating in absence of sex partner is healthy, there is nothing wrong with sex objects, it doesn't matter if those are sex toys resembling human genitalia or images of actual humans or illustrated texts describing them.

I think a lot of people would say that women may be put off by the presence of grid girls, or that grid girls may place a soft cap on the amount of women who might even get into F1.

Yes, but a lot of people saying something is not really an evidence of anything, but that people are indeed saying something.

 

[TheGraykid]

First, it doesn't matter how widespread male objects are, their existence is a fact. Typical male object: lean muscular body, perfect skin, mid age, rich.
Second, in 2015, in UK alone (population of 60 million) 39 million (physical) erotic books have been sold. I'd call it pretty massive.

And I am not sure you got my point: from sex positive POV: regularly having sex is healthy, masturbating in absence of sex partner is healthy, there is nothing wrong with sex objects, it doesn't matter if those are sex toys resembling human genitalia or images of actual humans or illustrated texts describing them.


Yes, but a lot of people saying something is not really an evidence of anything, but that people are indeed saying something.

Well, I think it is pretty important to note how widespread male objects are, compared to female sex objects. That appears to be the complete point. Also, the sporting event industry dwarfs the erotic book industry, in both mainstream recognition, revenue and the number of people interacting with them. As well as that, I would say that male participation in the erotic book industry is way more than female participation in sporting events. Furthermore, the sporting events industry is run by huge monopolistic companies, as opposed to the independent led erotic book industry, which matters in that the barrier to entry and participation is way lower in erotic book industry than in sporting events.

I agree with all your points. There is nothing wrong with sex objects, there is a problem with the culture that surrounds them. The culture that surrounds all of us. It's a problem of restricted female participation, except when they can be made into sex objects. That's the issue.

 

[nephilimdj]

Basically this is just for families watching on TV, sporting events in Australia have armies of Glamour girls.
Clipsal 500 in Adelaide, must be atleast 100 half naked girls walking around as part of a sponsorship

Example of all the different promo females:
http://www.dsaimages.com/Cars-and-Motor-Sport/Clipsal-500-girls/

 

[SatansReverence]

Basically this is just for families watching on TV, sporting events in Australia have armies of Glamour girls.
Clipsal 500 in Adelaide, must be atleast 100 half naked girls walking around as part of a sponsorship

Example of all the different promo females:
http://www.dsaimages.com/Cars-and-Motor-Sport/Clipsal-500-girls/

Welcome to Australia, we do not give the slightest fuck about your delicate sensibilities.

I have not seen a single person who actively consumes motorsport entertainment in Australia complain about it. In fact, I see plenty of women happily expose themselves to large crowds for a cheer (summernats is an example).

It does make me wonder though, next years tennis what ever it is that everyone apparently watches, and all the triathlons that include women, are they all going to have to put on 20 kilos and wear sweat pants and hoodies now? My god, fit attractive women, we can't have that on national TV HOW SEXIST!!!

 

[Bryank75]

Cheerleaders and Victorias Secret models next... modern feminism is an oppressive regime, usually more obsessed with pulling people down than lifting others up.
Will they make skirts and grunting illegal in tennis?

 

[Garibaldi]

It does make me wonder though, next years tennis what ever it is that everyone apparently watches, and all the triathlons that include women, are they all going to have to put on 20 kilos and wear sweat pants and hoodies now? My god, fit attractive women, we can't have that on national TV HOW SEXIST!!!

Didn't you know? You can't admire anything beautiful nowadays. How do I get off this stupid train?

 

[SatansReverence]

Didn't you know? You can't admire anything beautiful nowadays. How do I get off this stupid train?

Fuck, I better gouge my eyes out, THERE'S A FLOWER OUTSIDE MY WINDOW!

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

This is how people like Adolf Hitler come to be.

 

[Tapioca]

They should have changed their jobs to post race interviewer or something.

Or cheerleaders.

People do not have an issue with cheerleaders because they are actually doing something.
Or those girls that dance around at basketball games.

 

[Cybrwzrd]

The culture that surrounds all of us. It's a problem of restricted female participation, except when they can be made into sex objects. That's the issue.

What culture of restricted female participation?

How do these Grid Girls keep women from wanting to be professional race car drivers?

Also, isn't it possible that men just are better at that level of driving then women? Men have faster visual reaction times than women. That is part of our evolutionary biology, like it or not. So the men in the top 0.1%, out far on the bell curve of racing ability are going to vastly outperform women in a reaction time based sport like racing. Short of making a women's racing league, if there is interest, there just aren't going to be many women that are physically capable of competing with men in this sport. And then they have to be interested in even doing so.

Take Danica Patrick. Celebrated, and maybe even the best female race car driver and pioneer in the sport. She was in 366 races in three different Motorsports. She has 1 win to her name. And that was seen as a major accomplishment. She made the top 10 14 times, and the top 3 7.

She is at best competitive with the worst male professional drivers.

On the other hand, two of the argueably best drivers of all time have very impressive numbers. Michael Schumacher entered 308 races in his F1 career. He won 91 times. Jeff Gordon, in the Monster Energy NASCAR series alone, won 93 out of 805 races - and placed in the top 10 in 477 of them.

Like it or not, Women and Men have physical traits that can't be overcome due to their biology. There will never be equality of outcome without oppression. Are we going to be like the world of Harrison Bergeron to achieve it?

 

[TheGraykid]

What culture of restricted female participation?

How do these Grid Girls keep women from wanting to be professional race car drivers?

Also, isn't it possible that men just are better at that level of driving then women? Men have faster visual reaction times than women. That is part of our evolutionary biology, like it or not. So the men in the top 0.1%, out far on the bell curve of racing ability are going to vastly outperform women in a reaction time based sport like racing. Short of making a women's racing league, if there is interest, there just aren't going to be many women that are physically capable of competing with men in this sport. And then they have to be interested in even doing so.

Like it or not, Women and Men have physical traits that can't be overcome due to their biology. There will never be equality of outcome without oppression.

Participation does not mean female race car drivers should be forcibly inserted into a male league. I don't think anyone is really clamouring for that. But I do think it would be interesting if F1 managed and promoted a female racing league and had the same constructors compete there. Almost like tennis or the UFC in a way. I just think if you're creating a sporting product, it's hard to justify non sequitur attractive female decoration, especially when that's the most visible female presence in your product, and the fact that this is a staple of so much of entertainment industry.

 

[xandaca]

This is how people like Adolf Hitler come to be.

I think this is ludicrous as well, but let's not go completely nuts.

 

[Cybrwzrd]

Participation does not mean female race car drivers should be forcibly inserted into a male league. I don't think anyone is really clamouring for that. But I do think it would be interesting if F1 managed and promoted a female racing league and had the same constructors compete there. Almost like tennis or the UFC in a way. I just think if you're creating a sporting product, it's hard to justify non sequitur attractive female decoration, especially when that's the most visible female presence in your product, and the fact that this is a staple of so much of entertainment industry.

Racing is a business, just as much as it is a sport. Has to be a market for it. I don't think sponsors are going to be clamoring to fund female F1 or NASCAR race teams and leagues for the sake of being diverse.

It's fully justified to sell things with sex. Humans like sex, and it reliably sells.

 

[TheGraykid]

Racing is a business, just as much as it is a sport. Has to be a market for it. I don't think sponsors are going to be clamoring to fund female F1 or NASCAR race teams and leagues for the sake of being diverse.

It's fully justified to sell things with sex. Humans like sex, and it reliably sells.

I think the UFC thought the same thing for a while and then they found Ronda Rousey. All you need is one star, then you have an instant market.
Obviously, the UFC is different to F1, however, I think multiple sports has proven that with the right promotion, there is a market for female competitors in the sports events industry.

Sex does sell, however, the way F1 was selling sex made enough people unhappy that they decided to change that in order to prevent them possibly losing money. It's fully justified for people to be unhappy with the context in which that sex is being sold.

 

[Cybrwzrd]

I think the UFC thought the same thing for a while and then they found Ronda Rousey. All you need is one star, then you have an instant market.
Obviously, the UFC is different to F1, however, I think multiple sports has proven that with the right promotion, there is a market for female competitors in the sports events industry.

Sex does sell, however, the way F1 was selling sex made enough people unhappy that they decided to change that in order to prevent them possibly losing money. It's fully justified for people to be unhappy with the context in which that sex is being sold.

F1 requires hundreds of millions of dollars in investment to field a team. Yes, they could share the same tech, but each female driver would still need their own cars, which are not cheap to manufacture, yet alone have mechanics to tune and repair and maintain, and a pit crew the day of the race. On top of that, why would anyone want to watch the same multi hour race done slower?

Who was even protesting the existence of grid girls to begin with? Was it some widespread movement of women, cause I'm not finding anything.

 

[TheGraykid]

F1 requires hundreds of millions of dollars in investment to field a team. Yes, they could share the same tech, but each female driver would still need their own cars, which are not cheap to manufacture, yet alone have mechanics to tune and repair and maintain, and a pit crew the day of the race. On top of that, why would anyone want to watch the same multi hour race done slower?

Who was even protesting the existence of grid girls to begin with? Was it some widespread movement of women, cause I'm not finding anything.

Why do people watch slightly worse tennis or mixed martial arts? Characters. Sports is storytelling, and storytelling is all about characters. I'm not saying it wouldn't be expensive or a risk, but I'm saying it's possible and has been done successfully in other sports.

I don't think it was a huge protest that caused this. I see in this era women covering the sport have been talking about it, and I think the people at F1 ran the numbers and thought this was a good move. The whole "feminists are trying to take away our grid girls", seems overblown, because it doesn't seem like a massive number of them were even protesting this, to begin with.

 

[Dunki]

Why do people watch slightly worse tennis or mixed martial arts? Characters. Sports is storytelling, and storytelling is all about characters. I'm not saying it wouldn't be expensive or a risk, but I'm saying it's possible and has been done successfully in other sports.

I don't think it was a huge protest that caused this. I see in this era women covering the sport have been talking about it, and I think the people at F1 ran the numbers and thought this was a good move. The whole "feminists are trying to take away our grid girls", seems overblown, because it doesn't seem like a massive number of them were even protesting this, to begin with.

But they celebrated the removal and women losing their jobs which is as bad as demanding to remove it. I would compare it with people condeming violence but on the other hand celebrate when people they do not agree with get punched in the face.

 

[Breakage]

Why are we comparing Grid Girls to minstrel shows???

A well known British radio presenter here in the UK compared F1's use of grid girls to the way men used to joke about domestic violence in the 1960s.

There are some really absurd comparisons out there.