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[Paasei]

Not sure why you did. It may work as a figure of speech, but scientifically speaking "being trapped in the wrong body for you" doesn't make any sense.

Maybe this sums up what I though to being transgender was a bit better:

-You are born as a boy, yet your cells/body grow you into a girl. You are born with a vagina, grow breasts once you get older and get menstruation. However in your mind you still identify the way you think and feel, meaning your mind tells you that you are a boy. Hence being trapped in the body of a female.

And once again, the same story but replace every "boy" with girl/female and every "girl" with boy/man.

Wether this is the true definition of being transgender is not the issue here. The issue is what I thought/think it was. And not that when you identifying yourself as a cat, any other animal or even an object is (also) being transgender.

 

[grumpyGamer]

I believe it to be a mental illness.

I say this without ill intent. Without malice. I believe these people have a serious mental disorder but instead of being properly treated they are sold this illusion that they can switch genders.
No amount of hormones and surgeries will make a man become a woman and vice versa. The majority of people undergoing gender transition will never look like the opposite sex. And some of the changes are irreversible.
Honestly i think gender transitioning is like giving a loaded gun to someone with depression and saying "Do it. it'll solve your problem".

I'm not campaigning against transgenders. I don't think transgender people should be harassed in any way. They deserve to be treated with respect and dignity like everyone else. That's just my opinion.
But i certainly don't like seeing children being dragged into this transgender epidemic.

I kinda agree with you, never really thought about it, i mean i don't believe there is enough research and information on what is causing this, this may be something that is developing in the womb, no one really knows why (i think)

One one side i want to say its natural for a person, on the other side i believe it is a disability.
Would really like to see mere advanced research on the matter, although kinda difficult because of the social stigma about trans people and the idea of discrimination.
If someone knows more about the topic i don't mind being educated

Had to edit just to say, the cat thing is total bulshit, crazy woman

 

[Airola]

To me it seems most of the world's problems are caused by people who can't keep their noses out of other people's business. If a man believes he's a woman and wants to live as one then so what, it's not going to hurt anyone's day. Let people be.

Yeah I agree, but still it's not quite that simple though.

I would say it definitely is a problem when people take a young boy saying "I think I'm a girl" at face value and start messing with that boy both psychologically and biologically (for example giving drugs that put puberty on hold) to steer him in the direction of becoming a girl. For many this really is "just a phase" they go through and they will accept their biological sex when they are older. That said, I don't think parents should be ashamed of their child or discourage them or blame them if they have these thoughts either. That's definitely extremely hurtful, but I don't think they should live as if this situation is an unchangeable fact now that needs urgent treatment. And I definitely don't think the society should change to encourage parents to treat the situation as such instead of looking at it more from an "let's wait and see" angle.

So yeah, I think it's no-one's business what an independent adult does or who they think they are. Let people be. But their 'thing' also shouldn't be the stepping stone for rebuilding the society in a way that would create the problems I mentioned. That is already happening, but I guess it could just be the 'growing pains' of this new way to look at life too so maybe it ends up to be not that big of an issue later. Who knows.

 

[llien]

Without malice. I believe these people have a serious mental disorder but instead of being properly treated they are sold this illusion that they can switch genders.

Is there a single known case of a successful proper treatment?

 

[Snoopycat]

It seems to be that you are mixing two different arguments.
Believing that "trans persons" have right to live their lives as they want and that they are in a state of perfect mental health are two very distinct topics that hardly overlap, if not just to a minor degree.

I'm not mixing arguments. I'm saying the world is in the state it is because people can't keep their noses out of other people's business. It's because of this that people get judged and harrassed and end up with mental problems.

 

[TheGraykid]

That would probably be the same thing gay people felt in a world where they had to live as a straight man (or woman). Or as a matter of fact when left-handed people were forced to use their right hand. But in the end the problem was society, and not themselves, and things got better when their nature/identity was accepted as such (not exactly solved for gay people, but we're making progress).
I totally understand transgender people asking for more acceptance from other people. But I don't understand them having issues with their own condition.

Their own condition is the point of conflict. With gay people and left-handed people, the conflict is between your internal identity and the actions you are making. With transgender people this is different, the conflict is between your internal identity and the body you have. This is why transgender people might choose to adjust that body. Being able to fully express your identity is the issue here, a part of that is societal acceptance, but a way larger part of that is you actually living that identity. If your gender identity is a woman and you are biologically a man, and you want to live out your gender identity, a part of that for you might be transitioning physically. I support that.

 

[Dunki]

butwhy.gif?

It isn't a choice.


And if you are born man, but feel like woman, want to dress like women, your issues can simply be solved by mixing with gays?
Well, but aren't gays not really sexually interested in women?

Many things in life are not a choice. And we know that trans people are suffering immensely when they are not being treated. That does not count for gay people. They do not suffer because they are gay. They can experience suffering to due humans being assholes but with Trans people it is different.

Also loving to dress a s a women (skirts) is not being transgender. Its transexual. Transgender is something different at least in my understanding.

Transsexuals are people who transition from one sex to another. A person born as a male can become recognizably female through the use of hormones and/or surgical procedures; and a person born as a female can become recognizably male. That said, transsexuals are unable to change their genetics and cannot acquire the reproductive abilities of the sex to which they transition. Sex is assigned at birth and refers to a person’s biological status as male or female. In other words, sex refers exclusively to the biological features: chromosomes, the balance of hormones, and internal and external anatomy. Each of us is born as either male or female, with rare exceptions of those born intersex who may display characteristics of both sexes at birth.

Transgender, unlike transsexual, is a term for people whose identity, expression, behavior, or general sense of self does not conform to what is usually associated with the sex they were born in the place they were born. It is often said sex is a matter of the body, while gender occurs in the mind. Gender is an internal sense of being male, female, or other. People often use binary terms, for instance, masculine or feminine, to describe gender just as they do when referring to sex. But gender is more complex and encompasses more than just two possibilities. Gender also is influenced by culture, class, and race because behavior, activities, and attributes seen as appropriate in one society or group may be viewed otherwise in another.

 

[TheMikado]

Many things in life are not a choice. And we know that trans people are suffering immensely when they are not being treated. That does not count for gay people. They do not suffer because they are gay. They can experience suffering to due humans being assholes but with Trans people it is different.

Also loving to dress a s a women (skirts) is not being transgender. Its transexual. Transgender is something different at least in my understanding.

No, not quite right. Transexual typically describes those who have gone through some process of physical augmentation. Transgender is generally without any physical augmentation.
Cross-dressing is a separate entity than either of these. A cross dresser may or may not be either transgender or gay.

 

[Alx]

This is why transgender people might choose to adjust that body. Being able to fully express your identity is the issue here, a part of that is societal acceptance, but a way larger part of that is you actually living that identity.

But more practically, how does having "the wrong body" prevent someone from living one's identity ? Except for sexual stuff obviously, why does it feel wrong to be a woman in a man's body or vice versa ?

 

[TheMikado]

Their own condition is the point of conflict. With gay people and left-handed people, the conflict is between your internal identity and the actions you are making. With transgender people this is different, the conflict is between your internal identity and the body you have. This is why transgender people might choose to adjust that body. Being able to fully express your identity is the issue here, a part of that is societal acceptance, but a way larger part of that is you actually living that identity. If your gender identity is a woman and you are biologically a man, and you want to live out your gender identity, a part of that for you might be transitioning physically. I support that.

There are a couple of things to consider with this.

Science seems to be honing on on the specific genes which attribute to homosexuality.
As such it also would be considered a genetic mutation, albeit a physically benign one like freckles or dimples.

The issue comes with transgender-ism is that there can be genetic and non-genetic causes which can also be the case for homosexuality.
So in my opinion I am not sure if I would quantify it as a "illness" rather than a condition and it should definitely be treated in the similar way which gender reassignment counseling is handled.

It needs a diagnosis for treatment and should be covered by most insurances.

 

[Sentenza]

I'm not mixing arguments. I'm saying the world is in the state it is because people can't keep their noses out of other people's business. It's because of this that people get judged and harrassed and end up with mental problems.

Minding their own business is not going to change what people believe to be true.

 

[llien]

Also loving to dress a s a women (skirts) is not being transgender. Its transexual.

No. Transsexual is literally a person who transitioned to the opposite gender.

 

[Big4reel]

I think people have a problem with it becoming normalized because they think it will become a trend, a trend that might end up with irreversible consequences. I do object to parents giving their kinds sex reassignment surgery and what not. I remember talking to friends one day and they feared that now maybe the girls they have sex with might turn out to be transgender. And now not being attracted to transgender makes you a bigot.

This wasn`t really a big deal 5 or 6 years ago but now everyone is talking about it. Its all very confusing

 

[betrayal]

That's actually wrong. Suicide among transgender mostly stems self-hate, discomfort and perceived discrimination (where there is none).

That's why suicide rates stay the same pre- and post-operation.

Could you share the link to the study you've just cited?

He's actually right. There a a few studies covering that, all with the same results, i.e. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/

Like i stated in my previous post, i do not think it is a mental illness itself, but more a consequence and because many factors during life and therefor the outcome may be some kind of mental illness. I do have a lot experience and contact with people with mental problems (suicide attemps, eating disorders, ...). Absolutely all these problems, without any exception, are formed in the past because of experiences these people had to go through. It can be with the age of 1 or 2 years or many many years later. These causes are often dramatic and the people / mind don't know a healthy way to cope with these situations, so they adapt. They develop behavior patterns that help them cope with their current situations. During this time these pattern help them to stay alive. But later somewhere in your life these bad situations will pass. What will not pass are the behavior pattersn these people developed during hard times. And this is what causes serious mental problems.

What i'm trying to say is, that i still don't think transgender is a mental illness, but maybe it is more of a way people developed somewhere in their life to handle problems which they couldn't during hardships. And without any strong efforts they will stay forever, even if they lead to many more problems like mental illnesses or suicide attempts.

Also you really need to consider, that there is a chance that people are indeed not born into the wrong body, but that they really think so because their hormons and the whole checmical cocktail constrolling our behavior and life is off balance. There a forms of depressions that a linked genes or a specific combination of them.

But whatever the cause is. People are still way more prone to suicide attempts even after surgery. So i think improved psychiatric and somatic care could really be a better way to help these people, especially after surgery. Or maybe even before, so surgery doesn't get necessary. But my knowledge is limited, so i can't say which way would be the right one.

 

[Dunki]

I think people have a problem with it becoming normalized because they think it will become a trend, a trend that might end up with irreversible consequences. I do object to parents giving their kinds sex reassignment surgery and what not. I remember talking to friends one day and they feared that now maybe the girls they have sex with might turn out to be transgender. And now not being attracted to transgender makes you a bigot.

This wasn't really a big deal 5 or 6 years ago but now everyone is talking about it. Its all very confusing

These kind of things should never be decided by parents or even yourself since you feel like it but by experts and it will never become .a trend as well. Doing it wrong will destroy the life of the person completely. There are cases in which the child/patient suffered even more after the sex change because of the incompetence of the people who suggested it.

 

[BANGS]

I'm pretty sure gender dysphoria IS a mental illness. I didn't realize this was a matter of opinion...

 

[Musky_Cheese]

A third of Americans probably find a lot of things to be a sin, including porn, shaving your bush, and a ton of jelly belly flavors.

Hopefully that doesn’t mean that third actively stands in the way of equality.

 

[TheGraykid]

But more practically, how does having "the wrong body" prevent someone from living one's identity ? Except for sexual stuff obviously, why does it feel wrong to be a woman in a man's body or vice versa ?

I would guess, that part of living that identity includes having a body which reflects that identity. The identity of male for many is linked to having a biological body that reflects that. At the end of the day, we are people who have not experienced it so we can only guess at what it might be like. All we can really do is listen to people who go through it. Not fully understanding shouldn't prevent us from being supportive, accepting or respectful though.

There are a couple of things to consider with this.

Science seems to be honing on on the specific genes which attribute to homosexuality.
As such it also would be considered a genetic mutation, albeit a physically benign one like freckles or dimples.

The issue comes with transgender-ism is that there can be genetic and non-genetic causes which can also be the case for homosexuality.
So in my opinion I am not sure if I would quantify it as a "illness" rather than a condition and it should definitely be treated in the similar way which gender reassignment counseling is handled.

It needs a diagnosis for treatment and should be covered by most insurances.

Yeah, I pretty much agree with most of that.

 

[TheGraykid]

I'm pretty sure gender dysphoria IS a mental illness. I didn't realize this was a matter of opinion...

Gender dysphoria isn't simply being a transgender person. Gender dysphoria is the distress that can occur as a result of gender nonconformity, not gender nonconformity itself.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Gender Dysphoria is a mental disorder/possible defect (I am unsure on if there is currently any genes/mutations within the genetic structure that relate to this) that refers to the distress one experiences when their sex/gender does not match with their gender identity. This leads to complications such as eating disorders, suicide, depression, anxiety, etc. I personally don't think it is healthy at all. However, we live in a time where there are many avenues one can take to become a happier and healthier person. We have therapy, gender reassignment surgery, and hormone therapy as just a few examples. I also find that people immediately give bad connotations to terms like "illness/disorder" and consider them insulting, which I have to vehemently disagree with as both are medical/scientific classifications in my line of work.

I have no issue with Trans folk as a whole and I believe they have every right to be as happy as the rest of the world.

 

[Dr. Claus]

A third of Americans probably find a lot of things to be a sin, including porn, shaving your bush, and a ton of jelly belly flavors.

Hopefully that doesn’t mean that third actively stands in the way of equality.

There are a handful of people in this very thread that are perfectly fine with equality, but still consider Transgenderism as a whole to be derived from a mental disorder/defect/illness. It is pretty safe to say that this doesn't mean 1/3 of Americans are against trans people - they just have a different way of classifying what trans is.

 

[betrayal]

There are a handful of people in this very thread that are perfectly fine with equality, but still consider Transgenderism as a whole to be derived from a mental disorder/defect/illness. It is pretty safe to say that this doesn't mean 1/3 of Americans are against trans people - they just have a different way of classifying what trans is.

Well said. It's not a matter of being for or against it. I really welcome open discussions and a wider range of opinions. Kind of refreshing in the todays world.

 

[JimiNutz]

We don't seem to have enough scientific evidence to prove whether it is a mental illness or not at this stage. Wasn't it not that long ago that many people thought that homosexuality was a mental illness as well?

It's certainly a mental 'difference' but where do we draw the line between difference and illness? Are transgendered people depressed and at higher risk of suicide because of a fault in their brain or because of how they are generally treated in society?

I certainly used to be in the camp that assumed it was some kind of mental illness or defect but definitely now see how that line of thinking can be problematic and potentially damaging.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Gender dysphoria is very much a political/healthcare classification, but certainly an upgrade over the mental illness classification. Trans "mental illness" is highly politicized in the U.S revolving around comfort levels and false "public health" concerns. The Freudian stuff is outdated though: It's not a defect, it's a variation, etc.

 

[Deleted member 713885]

I have no issue with trans folk.
I will call you by He/She Him/Her (thats as far as my pronouns go, dont ask me for Zims or Zers)
But I will never accept that they are actually a man or woman. I will instead find them to be a person with a mental illness which leads them to believe these things.

The numbers of people labeled trans who have also other mental illnesses is staggering. The levels of autism is pretty high.

Also as some one with a teenage son and a girlfriend who works with teens the number of "Trans-Trenders" are pretty high.
Its "Hip" to be trans right now.
Don't get me wrong...these arent the 'normal' kids...these are quirky kids.
A bunch of these kids are gonna see this as a phase or just realize they are gay.

 

[Bluntman]

We don't seem to have enough scientific evidence to prove whether it is a mental illness or not at this stage. Wasn't it not that long ago that many people thought that homosexuality was a mental illness as well?

Well homosexuality can be a mental illness. It can develop from a childhood trauma, like an abusive father or a neglecting mother, things like that. In which case it be cured by therapy.

Unfortunately many of these cases go untreated because of course it's not politically correct to even suggest this.

 

[Revolutionary]

I've only personally met two trans people and both times they seemed kinda unstable after talking to them for a few minutes. There was also a trans dude in the neighborhood that was practically dragged by police, kicking and screaming into a paddy wagon one time. That was memorable. So yeah, I'm inclined to think that it's a mental illness, but this is a very small sample size to base it on.

But honestly, I think the hormone treatments are probably the real culprit here. I mean, has anyone here owned a pet and noted their behavior pre and post neutering? My poor dog hasn't been the same since he got his balls removed and I can only imagine that kind of shock to the system (sudden influx/efflux of hormones) is even worse on a human's mental health.

 

[MazeHaze]

Well homosexuality can be a mental illness. It can develop from a childhood trauma, like an abusive father or a neglecting mother, things like that. In which case it be cured by therapy.

Unfortunately many of these cases go untreated because of course it's not politically correct to even suggest this.

This is straight up offensive. You don't "cure" homosexuality. Fuck outta here with this.

 

[llien]

He's actually right. There a a few studies covering that, all with the same results, i.e. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/

The context of my question was self-hate not being caused by discrimination (not addressed by this article at all).

This part of it is relevant to the thread, however:

Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group.

 

[MazeHaze]

I've only personally met two trans people and both times they seemed kinda unstable after talking to them for a few minutes. There was also a trans dude in the neighborhood that was practically dragged by police, kicking and screaming into a paddy wagon one time. That was memorable. So yeah, I'm inclined to think that it's a mental illness, but this is a very small sample size to base it on.

But honestly, I think the hormone treatments are probably the real culprit here. I mean, has anyone here owned a pet and noted their behavior pre and post neutering? My poor dog hasn't been the same since he got his balls removed and I can only imagine that kind of shock to the system (sudden influx/efflux of hormones) is even worse on a human's mental health.

I've had quite a few trans friends over the past 15 years or so. They're all just normal, regular people.

 

[TheGraykid]

Gender Dysphoria is a mental disorder/possible defect (I am unsure on if there is currently any genes/mutations within the genetic structure that relate to this) that refers to the distress one experiences when their sex/gender does not match with their gender identity. This leads to complications such as eating disorders, suicide, depression, anxiety, etc. I personally don't think it is healthy at all. However, we live in a time where there are many avenues one can take to become a happier and healthier person. We have therapy, gender reassignment surgery, and hormone therapy as just a few examples. I also find that people immediately give bad connotations to terms like "illness/disorder" and consider them insulting, which I have to vehemently disagree with as both are medical/scientific classifications in my line of work.

I have no issue with Trans folk as a whole and I believe they have every right to be as happy as the rest of the world.

I think people's issue with the misuse of "illness/disorder", is that when people use it in regards to Transgender people, they do not use it in the scientific context. It is not about their distress, it's about the mere fact that they exist. See many posts in this very thread.

Well homosexuality can be a mental illness. It can develop from a childhood trauma, like an abusive father or a neglecting mother, things like that. In which case it be cured by therapy.

Unfortunately many of these cases go untreated because of course it's not politically correct to even suggest this.

To be honest, this sounds pretty homophobic, and anti-science. There's a long history of people attempting to "cure" gay people, it doesn't work, it's not something you can cure people of.

 

[betrayal]

This is straight up offensive. You don't "cure" homosexuality. Fuck outta here with this.

It is not offensive. It is an opinion, which is not yours. You may not like it, but should try to accept it. Also there are a lot of studies which came to the same conclusion.

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1079063215618378
https://www.psychologicalscience.org/publications/sexual_orientation.html#.WDL2CH2jsWs
http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.2009.190009
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-010-9636-x
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-016-0695-5

 

[Dr. Claus]

I think people's issue with the misuse of "illness/disorder", is that when people use it in regards to Transgender people, they do not use it in the scientific context. It is not about their distress, it's about the mere fact that they exist. See many posts in this very thread.

That is true, which is something I hope changes. It tends to give a bad name to scientists/doctors who are just doing their job and are immediately labeled as "assholes" for doing so. But this may be a bit of a bias on my end as I am a scientist myself.

I've had quite a few trans friends over the past 15 years or so. They're all just normal, regular people.

I have experienced a good range. There are some that are nice, some that are jerks, and some that are completely unhinged. This is just typical of humanity as a whole though.

 

[Musky_Cheese]

There are a handful of people in this very thread that are perfectly fine with equality, but still consider Transgenderism as a whole to be derived from a mental disorder/defect/illness. It is pretty safe to say that this doesn't mean 1/3 of Americans are against trans people - they just have a different way of classifying what trans is.

My comment is not about illness. Just speaking of the sin part. Sorry for the confusion

 

[appaws]

I've always held that individual liberty is the highest value of a free society, and I think no differently on this issue. Most of the time we need to err on the side of the rights of individuals.

(Of course I confine that to adults, as the cases involving juveniles create some very thorny issues.) If such a huge preponderance of kids "grow out of it" as they say, then of course we should not let kids do anything permanent or damaging to themselves. But adults are different and are free to make difficult decisions we would never leave to a kid.

Even if technically it is a form of mental illness because a mental state does not match physical reality, most of the time it is probably benign. It is up to the individual how they feel about it....if they are happy setting up their lives in a way to accommodate it, cool. If they want to seek some sort of help because they are not comfortable with it, that's cool too. The rest of us should follow the golden rule in how we treat everybody else.

 

[Corrik]

It is not offensive. It is a opinion, which is not yours. You may not like it, but should try to accept it. Also there are a lot of studies which came to the same conclusion.

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1079063215618378
https://www.psychologicalscience.org/publications/sexual_orientation.html#.WDL2CH2jsWs
http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.2009.190009
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-010-9636-x
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-016-0695-5

You cannot cure genetic homosexuality. Which is like probably 90% of homosexuality. (Just throwing a bullshit number out to say most).

There is a very slim number of people who were abused by a male figure at a young age who learned to accept that or who struck out so much with the opposite sex that they tried their own or who had bad relationships with the opposite sex which led them to try their own. Very slim.

Saying all homosexuality can be cured is pretty naive as mostly you can't change what you are attracted to. It is their choice in partner to make, and they are allowed to make it as they see fit, as long as such a choice doesn't break the law.

 

[Bluntman]

This is straight up offensive. You don't "cure" homosexuality. Fuck outta here with this.

To be honest, this sounds pretty homophobic, and anti-science. There's a long history of people attempting to "cure" gay people, it doesn't work, it's not something you can cure people of.

You are right my wording was poor. In this case you cure a mental illness which was causing someone to "think" they were homosexual. I'm sorry I can't word it better, English is not my first language.

How many cases are like this? One in a hunder, one in a thousand? I don't know.

I'm not anti-science nor homophobic.

It is not offensive. It is a opinion, which is not yours. You may not like it, but should try to accept it. Also there are a lot of studies which came to the same conclusion.

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1079063215618378
https://www.psychologicalscience.org/publications/sexual_orientation.html#.WDL2CH2jsWs
http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.2009.190009
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-010-9636-x
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-016-0695-5

Yea and it's not even my opinion. I've talked to professionals about this and they say it would be a legitimate thing to research further but it's pretty obvious why noone want's to touch this subject.

 

[Bluntman]

You cannot cure genetic homosexuality. Which is like probably 90% of homosexuality. (Just throwing a bullshit number out to say most).

There is a very slim number of people who were abused by a male figure at a young age who learned to accept that or who struck out so much with the opposite sex that they tried their own or who had bad relationships with the opposite sex which led them to try their own. Very slim.

This is what I was talking about.

Saying all homosexuality can be cured is pretty naive as mostly you can't change what you are attracted to. It is their choice in partner to make, and they are allowed to make it as they see fit, as long as such a choice doesn't break the law.

And not this.

 

[MazeHaze]

You are right my wording was poor. In this case you cure a mental illness which was causing someone to "think" they were homosexual. I'm sorry I can't word it better, English is not my first language.

How many cases are like this? One in a hunder, one in a thousand? I don't know.

I'm not anti-science nor homophobic.



Yea and it's not even my opinion. I've talked to professionals about this and they say it would be a legitimate thing to research further but it's pretty obvious why noone want's to touch this subject.

Ah ok, that makes way more sense.

 

[Garruson]

I don't really know too much about it, I like to think that I'm extremely open-minded, one of my philosophies in life is to go into discussions with the possibility of being wrong and learning something - but I also believe in science and logic. And for me, from what I know and see, I would akin it to a mental illness, its your brain rejecting your body, it's a dysmorphia. If it's not a mental illness then it's a birth defect or something similar - otherwise we shouldn't attribute people into thinking they're something else or being somewhere else as mentally ill, because the reality is they are who they are.

A lot of feminist points dictate that gender is a construction, there's no preset qualities of what it is to be male or female. So if you take away that someone wants to be a woman or a man because x gender has certain qualities that they feel they should have, it boils down just to them feeling like they're in the wrong bodies - that for me is a severe mental illness, rejecting the body you're in. That's not to say it's a bad thing, if medicine now can rectify this and solve them feeling awful about the body they're in that's great and nothing to do with me, and I think I support them - however for me it's still a mental illness.

 

[betrayal]

You cannot cure genetic homosexuality. Which is like probably 90% of homosexuality. (Just throwing a bullshit number out to say most).

There is a very slim number of people who were abused by a male figure at a young age who learned to accept that or who struck out so much with the opposite sex that they tried their own or who had bad relationships with the opposite sex which led them to try their own. Very slim.

Saying all homosexuality can be cured is pretty naive as mostly you can't change what you are attracted to. It is their choice in partner to make, and they are allowed to make it as they see fit, as long as such a choice doesn't break the law.

I did not say you can cure it. I just linked to some studies which backed up the claims of another member here.

Personally i don't think you can cure you most forms of homosexuality. But i'm no scientist, doctor nor some guy from the future coming with some new scientific reports which we are all not aware of right now. Besides that there is no actual evidence i'm aware of for when the point in our lifetime occurs, where we choose our perceived sexuality or how it works in general. Maybe some events in our life very well define our sexual behavior, gender perception and many more. Claims without facts, and right now there's nobody on the earth who knows how it works, are just claims. Worthless, but open to interpretation.

 

[TheMikado]

You cannot cure genetic homosexuality. Which is like probably 90% of homosexuality. (Just throwing a bullshit number out to say most).

There is a very slim number of people who were abused by a male figure at a young age who learned to accept that or who struck out so much with the opposite sex that they tried their own or who had bad relationships with the opposite sex which led them to try their own. Very slim.

Saying all homosexuality can be cured is pretty naive as mostly you can't change what you are attracted to. It is their choice in partner to make, and they are allowed to make it as they see fit, as long as such a choice doesn't break the law.

While I absolutely agree with this, this should not be confused with whether or not genetic homosexuality is a genetic mutation or not. As I said, it is one I see no physical downside too beyond the issues of social stigma and the obvious natural reproduction issue. I am not claiming genetic homosexuality is a sickness needed to be cured, however it is a condition and classification.

 

[LordRaptor]

Is there a single known case of a successful proper treatment?

The 'cure' for gender dysphoria is gender reassignment surgery.
As others have said, gender dysphoria is a recognised mental illness - is the problem people have with it being classified as such stigma against mental illness?

Being recognised as a valid medical condition and gender reassignment being a legitimate treatment that - for example - is paid for by public healthcare (in countries that have that) or covered by insurance (in those that do not) should be a good thing, no?

 

[AngularSaxophone]

As of 2016 The World Health Organization also considers transgender-ism a mental illness....

If I think I am a Cat, then I would be considered to be mentally ill.



If I think i'm a child, then I would be considered to be mentally ill.



If I think I need to have surgery to remove parts of my body because i thought I was born to be disfigured, i'd be considered to be mentally ill.


Transgenders have a suicide rate that far exceeds that of any other group. Also a sign of mental illness.

Mmm hm. I mean adults can choose whatever path they wish but certain things have certain consequences. Does a bird ever wish to clip its own wings or a cat ever wish to be a dog? Truth is we don’t know but we do know what we are given from birth and it’s always been that way. Would not evolution take care of those who wished to change into something deep within them over time? Billions of years supposedly and it hasn’t. I’d also argue that someone who chooses to transition to a woman, no matter how good it looks, or how they feel, can no way or can no one ever know if that person is now identical to a woman 100% body and spirit.

 

[Moff]

Whether it's a mental illness or a physical defect - it's important to make it clear that being transgender is not healthy, is not a desired status that's (biologically/evolutionarily) equal to healthy, regular people (they absolutely are equal in terms of the law, though). A short glance at suicide rates tells the reason for that.

Now, what has me think that transgender people are at least partly inflicted with mental illness is the simple fact that up to now, I've never heard a convincing argument for why they need to identify as the opposite sex. Let me elaborate: You're a woman. But you prefer typical men-hobbies such as cars, sports, etc.. You prefer wearing trousers instead of skirts. Also you're sexually attracted to other women. Why do you need to identify as transgender, though? You're lesbian tomboy. That's ok. The same goes for men, although you'll have to accept that most people will find a man wearing a skirt weird. But being weird isn't illegal.
At no point is there a necessity for labeling yourself transgender and trying to mutilate your body. Yet, transgender people are deadset to follow through with that. That's why I think there's mental illness at play.

Now, if someone can explain why the above train of thought is wring, I'll listen. But I've read past transgender threads on NeoGAF, and they never managee to explain that part.

That is very easy to answer and has been brought up on GAF a lot, back then.
What you are looking for is Gender Dysphoria.

Gender dysphoria (GD), or gender identity disorder (GID), is the distress a person experiences as a result of the sex and gender they were assigned at birth. In this case, the assigned sex and gender do not match the person's gender identity, and the person is transgender.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_dysphoria

If a person would not feel this distress, yes they would have no problem identifying as a "lesbian tomboy", as you put it. But they do, it is medically well observed, can and is being diagnosed by medical professionals and not just made up bogus like the cat people mentioned in this thread. That is the big and important difference.

 

[llien]

The 'cure' for gender dysphoria is gender reassignment surgery.

But that's exactly the opposite of what the comment I responded to was about: "

Without malice. I believe these people have a serious mental disorder but instead of being properly treated they are sold this illusion that they can switch genders.

I'm sure gender reassignment surgery is not the treatment meant in this quote.

 

[ExpandKong]

It is not a mental issue. It is a defect in the Brain which in the end can lead to a mental illness since the body and mind can not comprehend this defect on its own. At least this is my understanding of it. But no it is not a general mental illness.

Aren’t lots of mental illnesses caused by defects in the brain? Depression, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder - aren’t these all caused by physical irregularities in brain chemistry?

Not that I’m trying to equate transgenderism with something like schizophrenia - just pointing out that being caused by a physical defect of some sort in the brain (is there a study on this? Genuinely curious) doesn’t really preclude it from being a mental illness.

 

[TheGraykid]

I believe it to be a mental illness.

I say this without ill intent. Without malice. I believe these people have a serious mental disorder but instead of being properly treated they are sold this illusion that they can switch genders.
No amount of hormones and surgeries will make a man become a woman and vice versa. The majority of people undergoing gender transition will never look like the opposite sex. And some of the changes are irreversible.
Honestly i think gender transitioning is like giving a loaded gun to someone with depression and saying "Do it. it'll solve your problem".

I'm not campaigning against transgenders. I don't think transgender people should be harassed in any way. They deserve to be treated with respect and dignity like everyone else. That's just my opinion.
But i certainly don't like seeing children being dragged into this transgender epidemic.

Your entire comment is you not treating trans people with respect and dignity, and you just being completely ignorant of transgender people and gender dysphoria. I would recommend doing a lot of research before speaking on this again. Also, comparing gender transitioning to suicide is one of the worst analogies I've heard in a long long time.

 

[VAL0R]

To me, the logic of transgenderism is completely irrational. A man, Jones, is born with the nature of a man. A man is the type of being Jones is. It's utterly inescapable. A robin cannot but be a robin and Jones cannot be but Jones, a man. It's so obvious that any child will tell you that Jones cannot, through mere desire or an act of will, change his nature. If it were possible for Jones to change his nature by desire or an act of the will, we might expect Jones to have the (incredible and supernatural) power to transform himself not only into a woman, but a robin or an iguana or a fire breathing dragon. If Jones has this power, can he everywhere and always change his nature? By what mechanism? By what act?

What actually happens is so-called trans people only change their matter. But they are not changing in any way their nature or essence. So whereas some people see a headline breathlessly declaring, "Man gives birth!" and believe, I see only a woman who has removed her breasts and takes a cocktail of drugs to grow facial hair. Of course, as a woman, she can get pregnant. She still has a working female reproductive system, why would we expect otherwise? After all her labors, cosmetic surgeries and efforts she has only succeeded at appearing more like a man than she once did. But still no more a man then the one who tattoos scales on his face and carves a fork into his tongue is a serpent. It's all merely a tragic delusion. Some say that it's unloving to speak like this, however I believe that when someone is deluded or confused, it's more loving to remind them of the reality and truth of who they really are, even if it hurts. Because I believe truth is more important than emotion.

 

[BANGS]

Your entire comment is you not treating trans people with respect and dignity, and you just being completely ignorant of transgender people and gender dysphoria. I would recommend doing a lot of research before speaking on this again.

Provide us with some links to said research...