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Does Trump deserve the Nobel Prize if NK de-nuclearizes?
- Thread starter pramod
- Start date
Dubloon7
Banned
LOL SMH
lil puff
Member
Zantetsuken
Member
It's somewhat funny that people think Trump has a hand in any of this outside of his childish temper tantrum Tweets. People are forgetting the Peace part. He's brought anything but.
Fox Mulder
Member
I was talking about this earlier with someone.
Trump came in running his mouth, and NK is suddenly making moves they've never done before under more traditional Presidents.
Even if NK is only cozying up to make us look like the assholes if Trump attacks them, it's still progress.
Trump came in running his mouth, and NK is suddenly making moves they've never done before under more traditional Presidents.
Even if NK is only cozying up to make us look like the assholes if Trump attacks them, it's still progress.
O.v.e.rlord
Banned
Great post. Wish to expand your point?
O.v.e.rlord
Banned
That thing that looks like this ...v
But I’m on a phone so I don’t know what it looks like on desktop
But I’m on a phone so I don’t know what it looks like on desktop
This argument sounds like a manifestation of TDS. NK has been rapidly working on a way to hit mainland USA with nukes, and the RM threatens to use them non-stop. If a twitter tantrum gets them to stop that shit, then said twitter tantrum would have brought peace without a single shot fired, man or woman soldier lost, or civilian casualty. That would be one of, if not the absolute most successful effort to achieve peace in world history (most likely the latter).
Trump did nothing to prevent NK from making and testing nukes...now that he has them, he quite literally holds all the cards. Trump has done nothing other than escalate the situation and by personally attacking and making all types of stupid-ass statements, he has elevated Kim's status. Keep in mind that its Kim (not Trump) who is making the initial overtures (to South Korea). The US is on the sidelines which is probably a good thing since he'd be dealing with president dip-shit.
The whole point of getting the nukes (for NK) is simply to join the nuclear club...Once you are a member, you are essentially guaranteed to be free of invasion forever. Anyone daring to invade a country with nukes finds themselves in a losing situation fast. Kim is not dumb and he is behaving exactly as you'd expect for someone trying to consolidate power and continued control. He made the nukes so he controls the conversation going forward. This policy started back under Bush and led to their first test in 2006.
Oh but yeah, a tweet is what really settled him...up to that point, he wasn't afraid of Trump. LOL
LOL Your understanding of this is simplistic to say the least.
The whole point of getting the nukes (for NK) is simply to join the nuclear club...Once you are a member, you are essentially guaranteed to be free of invasion forever. Anyone daring to invade a country with nukes finds themselves in a losing situation fast. Kim is not dumb and he is behaving exactly as you'd expect for someone trying to consolidate power and continued control. He made the nukes so he controls the conversation going forward. This policy started back under Bush and led to their first test in 2006.
Oh but yeah, a tweet is what really settled him...up to that point, he wasn't afraid of Trump. LOL
To say the least, you are arguing out of emotional hatred at best.
///PATRIOT
Banned
Do you think it is intelligent to give to trump a Nobel prize just because they gave it to Obama just for breathing?
RokkanStoned
Member
Kim moving might actually be motivated by sidelining the US and the general dislike for Trump by parts of the international community, trying to score points there. Meaning that one shouldn't think as simplistically on how international relations work, because movement is a major factor in reaching certain ends. Kim having been allowed a movement in which he can stay antagonistic to the US, not giving in to US demands, but sidelining it and getting international recognition in hope of dealing with sanctions, that's a pretty logical way to deal with a situation without force. Moves on the international level tries to deal with the concept of rationality, but in general things are more complex than the perceived notion of rationality. Most of the time it's the same moves of trying to exercise power, by means of dominance or reciprocity, but due to limited movement and the way the international systems are structured there tends to be less impact from these means. In facing a perceived irrational actor, trying to sideline them, rather than trying to apply the typical rational choice approach, seems more prudent choice. On a level this makes it also easier to manipulate rational actors to seek a solution that's ideal for the other part as well, all depending on how the other actors act and perceive it. This is just one perspective though, but I doubt NK is going through with anything unless they think the benefit for them is great enough.
Honestly though, many US presidents have failed in regards to NK. NK getting nukes might motivate more nuclear proliferation amongst smaller countries. China and Russia have been playing a pretty dangerous game in trying to game the US on this. The US also runs the risk of larger risk as nuclear proliferation increases, meaning that risk averse behavior might backfire.
Sorry, but this is wrong. There are tons of ways to deal with limited nuclear arsenal countries, in fact, it's actually not very complicated and there's ways of making it hard to know who actually is attacking, making retaliation useless if you don't have targets all over. Being forced to spread nukes severely limiting the threat of your nuclear arsenal. A black ops military strike seeking to disable most of the launch capabilities and the chain of command would certainly have success.
In general it's more the uncertainty in terms of China that makes the move risky, not the nuclear weapons of NK. Also the fear that panic would cause a domino effect. So it's not the fact that NK has joined the nuclear club that's guaranteeing them free of invasion forever. More so, they run the risk if there ever comes a technology that invalidates their nuclear capabilities, in which said hegemon can crush them without fear of retaliation.
Its funny that people think the man who commands the most devastating armed forces this planet has ever seen making threats to another nation has no impact.
Chip Chipperson
Banned
SDCowboy
Member
Wow, just saw on CNN that Trump is supposedly to meet Kim by May. That is massive.
Here is a USA Today article on it:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...or-announcement-coming-north-korea/408781002/
Here is a USA Today article on it:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...or-announcement-coming-north-korea/408781002/
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Who would have thought that the man in command of the largest, most powerful armed forces this planet has ever seen, could bring the leader of North Korea to the table by not kowtowing to his threats but instead standing up and using the might he has been entrusted with to achieve this result.
Yeah, this just happened. Having a spine can yield results. Who would have thunk it?
Yeah, this just happened. Having a spine can yield results. Who would have thunk it?
SDCowboy
Member
Agreed. I am not anything resembling a Trump fan, but I feel how he's actually stood up to NK, while not perfect, has been extremely effective.
Anyone can say what they want about trump but if this real, and it works about how everyone in the world hopes, he's done his damn job as president of the united states and deserves applause for it.
"Oh shit, he's being serious." - Kim Jong Un
I can't believe this could actually all happen. I'm still wary as its North Korea we're talking about here, but man, this could be stabilizing as hell for the future.
Next up?
The middle east...
dolabla
Member
I like Trump's chaotic style. It's why I voted for him and will do so again. When he says you're gonna attack us or our allies, he will just respond I will wipe your country off the face of the Earth. He fights fire with fire.
DC needed a shake up and he was definitely the one to provide it, lol. It's very refreshing.
I'm definitely skeptical of this whole North Korea thing though. I don't know what they're up to with this meeting, but hopefully Trump's chaotic style has made Rocket Man finally realize this is not the road he wants to go down.
TTOOLL
Member
Press will have a hard time trying to spin this one.
So Trump agrees to meet with Kim. People see this as a good thing? This does nothing for the US and everything for NK. You meet with them after they end their nuke program, after they point their weapons away from SK, after they open up their borders to UN inspectors without question, and after a hole host of other conditions are met.
Meeting with him now only make Kim look good. Trump is getting played.
Meeting with him now only make Kim look good. Trump is getting played.
Vicetrailia
Member
Saving the receipts for this topic. Just don't be surprised when it leads nowhere.
Btw stop being guillable, Trump's twitter rants did nothing. The thing that's hurting them is sanctions (starved economy), and further detoriating relationships.
Btw stop being guillable, Trump's twitter rants did nothing. The thing that's hurting them is sanctions (starved economy), and further detoriating relationships.
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Why does it seem so hard to believe that Kim is actually fearful that Trump actually means what he's saying? This isn't some schoolyard bully picking on a freshmen here. This is the equivalent of a boot telling an ant that if they don't straighten up, they are going to get stepped on. If there's anything history has taught us, is that dictators will do anything to retain power and if Kim truly believes that Trump means business he wants to avoid conflict as there is now way his regime survives if it comes to that.
This way he could hold on to power by capitulating.
When the most powerful human, of the most powerful nation in earth history's tells you to sit down and shut up, you do so.
I think some may have forgotten just how much power the president of the united states wields when unburdned by political niceties as Trump seems to be.
Unless you honestly believe if Trump is getting played(a possibility ill admit)he won't respond with force? Is that a risk Kim is willing to take after knowing what Trump is like?
That would be suicide.
RPGCrazied
Member
I still think its all distraction from his daily scandals he is having. I mean a porn star is about to start leaking text messages and pictures of her affair with him. He almosted started a trade war, now trying to do something so big to change the subject.
I see right through it.
I see right through it.
bucyou
Member
This is simply ridiculous.
In a year, besides record low unemployment, rising salaries, lower taxes, the market hitting record highs and consumer confidence at insane levels, the president also has made more progress with NK than any other president in decades, if not ever. You understate vastly the significance of this message of out NK.
I'll not respond to the "trade war'" comment as it highlights your ignorance on the issue.
But yeah, keep watching CNN and TMZ to hear about a porn star story lol. What was the liberal mantra during Clinton again? Its his private life and doesn't affect his ability to do a job, no need to mention this allegation was before he even took office. I'm not even a huge trump fan, but posts and mindsets like this is why there will probably never be real progress made. Trumps approval ratings are hovering around 50%, much higher than Obama at the same point in time, just because you can't see the progress being made, doesn't mean the rest of the country doesn't either as the polls clearly show.
Good luck with the hoped for trump D pics, though.
KekistaniJohnny
Neo Member
Here's the problem, no ones gives a shit about this except the people who already hate Trump. The people who hate Trump still don't get why Trump is in the white house, Trump voters didn't vote him in because he's a stand up guy, I'll say that much.
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bucyou
Member
and who tightened the sanctions again? Who brought China to go in harder on them?
Were you calling someone gullible?
North Korea and Trump worked together so they could plan this to overshadow a story about a pornstar.
What?
Chip Chipperson
Banned
This right here is what the media has done to peoples critical thinking folks.
All I can say is learn from it.
StrikeNinja24
Banned
Explain.
KekistaniJohnny
Neo Member
Convincing people what Trump does in his personal life is the most important thing of everything and what the American people truly care most about.
HagglesworthMD
Member
As unpredictable as North Korea is, at least one thing is for sure, the absolute melt down this is causing on that "OTHER" forum is just amazing to behold!
Last month Kim Jong-Un's sister was just oh so dazzling in at her Olympic presence, now Kim's entire family should be hung, drawn and quartered for giving Trump some good news to present to the world!
Last month Kim Jong-Un's sister was just oh so dazzling in at her Olympic presence, now Kim's entire family should be hung, drawn and quartered for giving Trump some good news to present to the world!
StrikeNinja24
Banned
What the hell could Trump do? If he attacked NK first, NK's trading partners, most of all China, would side with NK. They aren't going to give up that trading partner for a country who's now planning on laying on the tariffs and has shown nothing but hostility towards them. It was literally dick waggling on both sides, rattling on like they actually were going to do something. Everyone knows they aren't, because the first one who does so will have the world turn on them.
Giving up the nukes and aggressions is what keeps everyone away from NK, and keeps Kim in power. If he loses power? Things are going to get ugly for him quickly. Dictators don't tend to have happy endings.
Vicetrailia
Member
I've acknowledged Trumps aggressive sanctions, that's what I'm saying.
Trump came back and applied much tougher sanctions aimed at NK, but also very selectively at China (ports) in order to slow them from doing business with NK.
So where are we now? NK is coming back to denuclearization talks as they did with Clinton, Bush, Obama, and now Trump. Trump realizing that they just want to get some aid/sanctions lifted won't fall for their game, and then we'll really see what happens with de-nuke talks.
If you think that Trump somehow orchestrated a possibly historic meeting with the leader of N. Korea about denuclearization, and had south Korean officials in on it just to distract from some scandal, I don't really need to explain do I?
You know how crazy that sounds right?
If you meant explain what I mean about the media;
The mainstream medias coverage of Trump has been embarrassing to say the least. Studies have been done highlighting its negativity. Its embarrassing to say the least. I didn't vote for him. For the first time in my life I didn't vote. You know what though? Hes the damn president and I'm going to support him when he's trying to do something good because I'm a citizen of the United States. I'm not going to use CNN as a source for my thought process on the situation, just like I didn't use fox news when Obama was president.
I my not like the man personally but I know bullshit when I see it.
He's not a Nazi.
He's not trying to become a king(like Obama remember?)
He didn't institute a ban on Muslims(same countries Obama had on his "countries of concern" list)
He is brash
He is narcissistic
He is a Twitter whore
If he gets this done, and North Korea somehow denuclearizes he deserves as much praise as any president that had a hand in it.
I loathe the mainstream media. I trust none of them. I have to read the same story 4-6 times just to get the gist of it after having to wade thru mountains of partisan bullshit on both sides. It shouldn't be like that.
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Are you able to admit how wrong you were yet? Or do you still maintain that the US is on the sidelines of overtures to South Korea. Sure sounds like South Korea was approached specifically to convey an offer to speak directly to the US President.
Vicetrailia
Member
They did this too with Obama and others. They try to get what they need and then continue their programs. The Trump admin is aware of this, and doesn't care about collateral damage to that country (innocent NK citizens dying in mass due to starvation), so we'll see.
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StrikeNinja24
Banned
While the chances are very slim that the two are correlated, Trump has proven time and time again that he will make a scene when something damaging is coming out. Right now, nobody else knew this meeting with North Korea was happening within the white house. Are we to believe that Trump, a guy who literally doesn't know the difference between north and south korea, did this by himself? And rushing into a meeting about literally denukalizing an entire country within 8 weeks? Yeah, the comment was obviously done tongue in cheek, but this whole thing stinks to high heaven. These things don't magically happen. I cannot blame people for being suspicious, even if they tend to run to extremes with it.
You forgot one important characteristic of Trump though.
He's an idiot.
Chances are he's not a Nazi. But he has said reteroic that supports those who are, like the David Duke spectacle and "Good people on both sides" comments.
Chances are he doesn't actually want to become a king, but then he talks about how great dictators run their operations.
Chances are that he didn't want an actual Muslim ban, but then he came out and called it a Muslim ban multiple times.
Yes, his negative aspects get overblown, but that's only because he does it to himself. If he would just shut the hell up, most of these things would of just been partisan mumbles. Now? They kind of got louder because he kept fanning the flames. He's got Republicans sweating about their seats left and right.
You can be skeptical, but it honestly sounds like the skepticism is driving your own bias against other possibilities. Yes, the news' purpose is to drive ratings. They do so by basically sensationalising what's going on, and talking about what would get people interested in watching. If anything, this is a pretty pure example of capitalism. If people were more interested in the truth rather than being entertained by the news, the ratings would reflect that.
So who's really to blame for what is transpiring?
WaterAstro
Member
Further elaborate one what? Trump did nothing.
It was Tillerson that did all the negotiations of sanctions, and Tillerson often complained about how Trump's tweets made it even harder to make these negotiations work because Trump tweets out attacks to those very same countries they are negotiating with.
That’s an interesting take on this one. I didn’t realize the South Koreans flew here to ask Tillerson to meet directly with KJU.
