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Sen. Lindsey Graham: Trump Says War With North Korea an Option
- Thread starter Tovarisc
- Start date
Waking up with Sam Harris had a good podcast the other week about North Korea and what the options are. It's the July 21st episode where he talks with author Mark Bowden. Short version is there are about 4 different things that can be done with NK and they're all terrible for different reasons. I highly recommend the podcast if you want a quick way to catch up with the situation. Plus there is a crazy bonus Trump story at the end from the author.
AcademicSaucer
Member
That Graham fellow seems like a twat
Bitch Pudding
Member
China probably can't wait to welcome most of those as refugees.
This really is some fucked up situation.
DeviantBoi
Member
War would be profitable for many of Trump's friends.
Now you have to wonder if he's going to war for the right reasons or to make money for himself and his friends or just to distract from the Russia investigation.
Now you have to wonder if he's going to war for the right reasons or to make money for himself and his friends or just to distract from the Russia investigation.
SporeCrawler
Member
Yeah who cares if millions die in SK and NK. Its not muricans
/s
People should realize that a city of 20 million is in attilary range. If war breaks out there will be millions of dead people and millions of refugees even without a nuclear war
They are already a nuclear power.
And many presidents thought seriously about this problem but there is no easy answer.
/s
People should realize that a city of 20 million is in attilary range. If war breaks out there will be millions of dead people and millions of refugees even without a nuclear war
They are already a nuclear power.
And many presidents thought seriously about this problem but there is no easy answer.
wordballoons
Member
this.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
you know how when trump does something stupid someone finds an ironic tweet? Here's one from the future.
Seriously, be careful. Who know what will happen in the next 2 weeks. Also, enjoy your trip!
Kill Your Masters
Member
Do we really have to wonder? He seems like the kind of guy who would nuke a country just so he can say he nuked a country and Obama didn't.
I guess the question to ask here is: does Trump's family have significant financial investments in South Korea?
I'm not sure a war would help him. The man and his sycophantic cronies and yes men who constantly jerk him off would be terrible to have leading us in a war. I dread the first major natural disaster they will have to face in the USA but an actual war? We're fucked for sure but I don't think it will save a buffoon like Trump.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
tens of thousands of americans at least would likely die. with nukes? Maybe hundreds of thousands
Everyone needs to pay attention though.
Just imagine if NK accidentally hits a Japanese/Chinese/American vessel, or they miscalculate and hit international land, things would only escalate.
And who knows how much Kool-Aid Kim Jong Un is on, maybe he himself thinks he's invincible and would risk heating things up just to show off.
Then just imagine an event where there's a glitch that shows missiles headed to NK or China or USA and those countries retaliate rather than wait to discover it was a false alert.
It's all possible.
SolarPowered
Member
No, just a lot of North and South Koreans.
Dude Abides
Banned
With Mattis, Kelly and McMaster around we'll probably be going to war with somebody.
Trump and his cronies will just call them "heroes" to gain some political points. After all, that's what he did the last time a soldier got killed because of his incompetence.
Not all generals want war.
North Korea don't want to ride a middle and start a war. All they probably want is to defend there country.
hydragonwarrior
Member
LOL that's great Trump/Graham - have you considered China's reaction to all this too and how many South Koreans will get killed?
Randolph Freelander
Member
This is what Time has to say, based on his financial disclosure:
Just his name for sale, not much else. Probably not enough to dissuade him from being a moron.
Military option is never a good option you fucking idiot, it should always be the last resort.
That said, it looks like that option is where we're headed with NK because Kim Jong Un and his regime are certifiably insane. I seriously worry about South Korea in that case, they will definitely take the brunt of NKs retaliatory attacks in that scenario.
Unfortunately I don't think even China has a handle on NK, that missile test would've never happened if they did.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
China wants no part of that. They'd be content with pushing them south and taking S. Korean economy with them.
Speaking of China it's foolish to think they would idly sit by. They spilled a lot of blood to keep the US away from their border, they would do it again if pushed.
The Greek Freak
Member
Even if the NK regime was peacefully taken down it would still be a massive nightmare for the U.S., S.K., and China.
Here have 25 million starved uneducated refugees!
Even basic S.K. social nets would have to not apply because it would basically instantly bankrupt the state without hundreds of billions in foreign aid.
I've yet to see a single "good" scenario resolving the NK issue and that is true even if Trump was magically a diplomatic and military genius starting tomorrow.
The situation is completely fucked on every level.
UberTag
Member
It'll definitely be the last two... although you might be able to make an argument for all 3.
Although nobody should want Trump to go to war for ANY reason... even the right ones... given his dubious track record of "winning".
Trump?
How the hell can you be sure? Were this somebody sane, I'd agree. But this is Trump we're talking about.
Dude Abides
Banned
It's a good rule of thumb that they will tend to favor military options.
DeVos's brother will magically resurface when we engage. And his private strike force will magically be given a contract to go in there and do whatever they hell they want, to the tune of hundreds of millions.
Giant Panda
Member
Under a normal president talk like this wouldn't bother me as they have to keep up the appearance that "all options, including military, are on the table." But with Trump he's crazy enough to do it.
🙄
NYCmetsfan
Banned
They are and we have.
People need to stop pretending we can stop this. Its happened, They have ICMBs, they have nukes.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
They haven't achieved miniaturization yet, so they have the ingredients but not a delivery method.
TwoDurans
"Never said I wasn't a hypocrite."
This. Why do people think no president has gone after them? NK didn't just decide to start acting a fool last year this has been a thing since before W.
We could easily take their entire military out with next to no losses, but Un is crazy enough to launch a nuke the second he sees a drone strike.
What other option besides war really is there with North Korea? Sanctions don't do anything, and if they did, who is to say the insane dictator wouldn't try to do as much damage as possible as a final act? Should the rest of the world wait until they have a full arsenal of nuclear ICBMs? There is no way to change this regime from the outside.
It probably should have happened years ago; the sooner the better.
Trying to negotiate with the madmen running North Korea is like trying to negotiate with Hitler.
Of course it would be awful if it has to happen while Commander Cuckoo-Bananas in charge of the USA.
It probably should have happened years ago; the sooner the better.
Trying to negotiate with the madmen running North Korea is like trying to negotiate with Hitler.
Of course it would be awful if it has to happen while Commander Cuckoo-Bananas in charge of the USA.
Bitch Pudding
Member
First of all, I don't believe there will be a war, it's all about a ballance of threat.
If NK attacks someone (first strike), they'll be bombed even further into the stone age.
If someone attacks them, they'll immediatelly retaliate by using their artillery to attack everything in range, including the 10mn metropolis of Seoul.
For now, NK uses liquid fuel rockets which need more than half an hour before they are ready to launch. It would be easy for US to destroy them before they are launched. But it is just a matter of time until they'll introduce solid fuel ICBMs, which can be launched within minutes.
If - IF - there will be war, it will startet by the US before NK develops those. The US will use their biggest bombs using stealth bombers to eradicate the known missile launch pads as well as huge parts of the NK' artillery stations. But NK has thousands (!) of those within the range of Seoul. The only option to save Seoul from an immediate threat would be "Operation Parking Lot", using nuclear weapons. But the fallout could harm enemies like allies - and China, and somehow I doubt the world would be a better place after that happens.
Almost guaranteed it will happen. If not NK then it will be Iran.
sloppyjoe_gamer
Gold Member
At the risk of being attacked by you all, put your sheepish anti trump mentality aside, and think about this logically.
You have NK being led by an insane, unreasonable psychopath with a regime that follows that same mentality and they have now proven that they can create and launch missiles that can AND would hit the mainland United States.
No other President on either side has had to face this reality until now, and i think that we're far past the point of diplomatic options with NK. China is completely unwilling to put any sort of pressure on NK at all, so really what other options are there?
Of course i don't want a war, but are we and should we at this point allow them to sit there and basically point missiles in our face and do nothing about it? I don't care who's in the White House....Trump, Clinton, whoever....that person would have a serious decision to make that either way would shape the world for decades. Don't kid yourselves....this is a serious, potentially world changing situation we're all in right now.
You have NK being led by an insane, unreasonable psychopath with a regime that follows that same mentality and they have now proven that they can create and launch missiles that can AND would hit the mainland United States.
No other President on either side has had to face this reality until now, and i think that we're far past the point of diplomatic options with NK. China is completely unwilling to put any sort of pressure on NK at all, so really what other options are there?
Of course i don't want a war, but are we and should we at this point allow them to sit there and basically point missiles in our face and do nothing about it? I don't care who's in the White House....Trump, Clinton, whoever....that person would have a serious decision to make that either way would shape the world for decades. Don't kid yourselves....this is a serious, potentially world changing situation we're all in right now.
JonnyDBrit
Member
What's most frustrating about Graham's remarks is honestly less that he says war with NK is an option - however terrible it may be, as an option, it is there - but rather that he thinks there's a 'good' version of that option. An option where they can go in without first accepting that they are going to get millions of innocent people killed, and not just on the 'wrong' side of the demilitarised zone.
My fucking god, did no-one learn from MacArthur?
My fucking god, did no-one learn from MacArthur?
As I wrote above, I think the same way. NK's missiles most likely can reach Europe already. It's time to end this before they can make more and better nuclear ICBMs.
Edit: And mind you, I'm generally a pacifist. But when I see a crazy person light a match at a gas station, I will blow it out.
Raven117
Member
I mean, on the spectrum of types of generals/military men, these guys seem to be on the more reasonable side of things.
This is a very real concern. One that the U.S. and China has to collectively solve. There is no way, China is going to watch the U.S. go to war with N. Korea and have U.S. soldiers on their borders. Just ain't gonna happen.
In terms of military options, the most likely scenario is that China agrees to not interfere with U.S. military actions, but has a plan afterwards to limit U.S. influence in the region.
hydragonwarrior
Member
So what Dubbed said isn't true then?
Also, it's awesome how everyone thing war is inevitable. What that means is sacrificing SK no matter what to NK's artillery. You should all consider the actual people affected by such an attack.
And if NK was to fire some nukes *at* the US, the war would be immediate, swift and would be supported by everyone. Right now, any military action is leary because many people have found better options and that was why we can kick the can. Furthermore, being the aggressor in this scenario completely makes the US look even worse foreign relation wise - Iran is likely do feel targetted next.
It's a bad scenario but if war is the worst case scenario, then there's no point in hopping straight into the worst case scenario.
HammerOfThor
Member
Is the Senate or Congress able to stop Trump if he gives the command to attack?