Support NeoGAF

[Chinbo37]

It seems that no matter what Xbox will have backwards compatibility going for it for new consoles. I imagine the next xbox will even play the original xbox games, similar to how the One does it now.

We all know Sony could introduce backwards compatibility for PS1 and PS2 games easy, maybe PS3 is more difficult but I am sure they could do it. But do they want to? DO they have to? Sony is on top and they have the better exclusives but I think this could really hurt them next gen if they dont have backwards compatibility AT LEAST with the PS4.

Personally I dont buy any PS4 games digitally until they confirm backwards compatibility will be a thing.

 

[Larxia]

The Xbox actually does better than just playing old games, it plays them in enhanced quality with higher resolution and sometimes better framerate too, and I love that, as a PC gamer I think it's one of the best thing that has happened on consoles in a very very long time.

Being able to play your old games, the same games, forever, on new hardware and with adaptive quality for new hardware like you would do on PC is just amazing, it removes that ephemeral, temporary feeling I always had with consoles games. You just take your old game, download a patch and boum, modern image quality.

It seems like Sony doesn't want to invest in that, but maybe they will be forced to at some point if it becomes standard, and I hope it will.

 

[WaterAstro]

No, not really. Market has dictated that BC doesn't matter much since PS4 outsells Xbox by about double.

They might still do it now, at least for PS4, because they aren't working against completely different architecture like PS3.

 

[theclaw135]

That 'can't satisfy everyone' dilemma is in play. Who's to decide which is better? Broad compatibility that intends to run nearly every game as it was, avoiding either improvements or regressions (Wii, PS2, 3DS). Verus a spottier selection with more room for upgrades (PC, Xbox One).

 

[Grinchy]

With how much money customers have invested in their digital libraries, it seems like a huge mistake for the PS5 not to play PS4 games. I’d be pretty surprised if it didn’t just run them natively.

Some developers will probably do enhancement updates as well where the PS5 runs the game at a higher framerate or maybe even adds some effects not present before.

 

[KiteGr]

Why allow you to play your games when they can re-sell them to you?

Seriously! Having BC is a safe way to ensure some library for your new console until newer games come out. The Xbone did it because it struggled in the games department.
I personally occasionally do buy an old game digitally on my PS3, but it's almost always some obscure classic that I never got around to play, and they mostly release mainstream.
I would kill for a Xenogears release on PSN.

 

[theclaw135]

With how much money customers have invested in their digital libraries, it seems like a huge mistake for the PS5 not to play PS4 games. I’d be pretty surprised if it didn’t just run them natively.

Some developers will probably do enhancement updates as well where the PS5 runs the game at a higher framerate or maybe even adds some effects not present before.

I'm counting on Sony going full on ego again, as they were leading up to the PS3 launch. Yet another different processor family.

 

[Schrödinger's cat]

I'd say no, it hasn't.

The current and past gen, machines that offer backwards compatibility are not dominating the marketplace, whilst those without are.

Also, UK retail saw Shadow of the Colossus PS4 remaster re-enter the top 40 for boxed retail sales.

I think the presence of BC is appreciated, but its absence doesn't appear to have a significant impact, commercially.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I'd say no, it hasn't.

The current and past gen, machines that offer backwards compatibility are not dominating the marketplace, whilst those without are.

Also, UK retail saw Shadow of the Colossus PS4 remaster re-enter the top 40 for boxed retail sales.

I think the presence of BC is appreciated, but its absence doesn't appear to have a significant impact, commercially.

Customer expectatiOne with greatly rising digital content libraries do have BC as an almost essential pre-requisite and I think Sony will go for a solution that will also allow that IMHO.

 

[Ridaxan]

Definitely. Considering how many people migrated over to digital libraries and the "fact" that the PS5 won't deviate from the x86 based architecture I don't see why it wouldn't be a feature by default.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Sony offered full hardware BC in the PS2 and early PS3. Nintendo had full hardware BC in the Wii and wiiu, along with GBA and DS models over the years.

What MS is doing is nice, but other companies have done it before. I expect the PS5 will have BC just because it'll presumably be far easier than the PS3 to PS4.

 

[magnumpy]

I think only the hardest of hardcore will even care about playing games from the early 2000s

 

[David Ricardo]

Sony must have BC with the PS4, but it has nothing to do with MS efforts though. By the end of the gen there will be 100+ million PS4s around, so it is in Sony's best interest to make the transition to PS5 as easy and smooth as possible.

If buying a PS5 allows you to carry all your PS4 games and keep playing with your PS4 friends, that's an asset. If the PS5 didn't have BC, switching to Xbox Two could result much more tempting.

 

[Schrödinger's cat]

Customer expectatiOne with greatly rising digital content libraries do have BC as an almost essential pre-requisite and I think Sony will go for a solution that will also allow that IMHO.

Possibly. Possibly not.

Were that the case then the absence of Virtual Console on Switch would be having a far more severe impact on its uptake. And, conversely, presence of BC on XB1 would be having a far more beneficial impact on its uptake.

As for customer expectations, I find the signal-to-noise ratio of these to be too unreliable to make them a worthwhile barometer.
Who is setting these expectations? Are they platform manufacturers? What concrete information have they provided?

 

[Snoopycat]

I don't buy disks so every game I have on my PS4 is digital. If the PS5 isn't compatible with the PS4 then I'll buy a Xbox instead.

 

[The Shepard]

I've spent thousands perhaps this generation on digital games. If Sony don't allow me to carry on from this gen again and Microsoft do, I'd move to the xbox for third party games 100%. With the ps3 I understand that the architecture is so different, but if the ps5 is a suped up ps4 and uses x86 again then there's no excuse!

 

[xviper]

nope, Microsoft is trying too hard to please the players with amazing services but all they get is hatred

people only care about exclusives, and i mean TRUE exclusives to ONE system ONLY

 

[Panajev2001a]

Possibly. Possibly not.

Were that the case then the absence of Virtual Console on Switch would be having a far more severe impact on its uptake. And, conversely, presence of BC on XB1 would be having a far more beneficial impact on its uptake.

As for customer expectations, I find the signal-to-noise ratio of these to be too unreliable to make them a worthwhile barometer.
Who is setting these expectations? Are they platform manufacturers? What concrete information have they provided?

I do not think Nintendo is the barometer of the industry for online, backward compatibility, digital stores (welcome to a console where you cannot backup the saves unless you have the online subscription...), etc...

Also, Switch is selling well despite of lack of BC and VC, it is a new platform that excited a lot of consumers and it is the only real dedicated gaming handheld available that also launched with two of its biggest IP’s in a very strong way.
Nintendo is also happy living in a small yet profitable niche. Other players looking at a mass market may not be comfortable with their decisions.

Who is setting expectations? Players like Apple and the App Store on iOS, Microsoft and Windows as well as Xbox now making it a PR business strategy, Google with Android, etc...

Even the much chastised Sony... people focus on PS4 with regards to BC, but PS2, PSP, PS3, and PS Vita and the BC support all of those provided seems to pale in comparison to one example that necessarily trumps the others...

 

[ruvikx]

No, not really. Market has dictated that BC doesn't matter much since PS4 outsells Xbox by about double.

That's probably because many PS4 buyers were actually 360 owners who transitioned over to PlayStation in 2013 (cheaper, more powerful) without already owning a library of PS3 games... hence no need (or mass demand from those particular ex xbox players) for backwards compatibility.

Backwards compatibility (in this market) should actually be the norm now because online features are predominant in every game - even single player titles (patches to fix game breaking issues). A PS1 or PS2 can be plugged in & wham bam thank you maam the games are ready. Yet current gen? Meh, imagine what'll become of the current (often digitally purchased) libraries in 20 years from now 'if' a PS4 is required to play them? At that point, it'll be a matter of trusting Sony to keep the console integrated into their online infrastructure. In that regard, the Playstation 2's online servers were shut down in 2012.

If that happened again (with the PS4 at some point in the future) & without backwards compatibility, kaboom, it'll be game over (literally) for many, many titles & game libraries (whether purchased physically or digitally) around the world. Considering I don't believe we're merely renting these games when we fork out 60/70 euros, I'd rather see them last forever.

 

[Schrödinger's cat]

I do not think Nintendo is the barometer of the industry for online, backward compatibility, digital stores (welcome to a console where you cannot backup the saves unless you have the online subscription...), etc...

Whilst I agree that a number of Nintendo's present-day policies can seem obtuse, many would argue they set the standard of expectation of BC in their products.

Regardless, in the context of the premise of the OP, the market has already shown that the impact of BC is negligible as of today.

I do feel we'll be approaching a watershed when it comes to digital libraries and generations of products. The main difference between software and other digital products is that software is always a bespoke-written-for-that-specific-platform product. Whether people care to pay attention to that detail or not is up to them, but it's factor.

Topics like these are why its understandable that streaming of content is becoming an increasingly common aspect of these company's comments.

 

[klosos]

I've been 100% digital for the last few years on PS4 , if the next generation of consoles doesn't allow me to bring them over and play them on PS5 then id be reluctant to go with Sony again. I would most probably purchase a PS5 but definitely not in the first 3 years of its life cycle. I mean who wants a PS4 and PS5 taking up space underneath the TV.

However logically speaking Sony don't have competition , Microsoft decision to bring all there games to PC is a great one for the consumer but not so great for them . as a PC Gamer i have no reason what so ever in purchasing a Microsoft console when i can play everything they do on my PC with better performance

 

[Cato]

With how much money customers have invested in their digital libraries, it seems like a huge mistake for the PS5 not to play PS4 games. I’d be pretty surprised if it didn’t just run them natively.

Some developers will probably do enhancement updates as well where the PS5 runs the game at a higher framerate or maybe even adds some effects not present before.

As with everything else, the only thing that matters is what makes the most business sense.
Would BC be awesome? Sure it would.
Would the average consumer even care? Uncertain.

We at GAF are not normies so we should not extrapolate our needs onto the general market for what we want.
If the average GAFfer were the target demographics, the PS5 would do 8k at 120fps. It would come with 16Tb of battery backed DRAM (because SSD is too slow)
and have 8 Power9 CPUs.


I spend more than most on games, I have >200 PS3 games and >100 PS4 games. Do I care about BC? No not really.
I will still keep my older consoles and playing a game on them is really just a click away to switch HDMI input on my TV.
I have my PS3 set up that way right now. I plan to buy a PS2 and collect those originals too.
Do I actually use my PS3 and play the games? Nope, very rarely bordering to never.

If BC is important to you. Good for you. For me I want to think it is but I know it is not.
For normies I know 100% it is irrelevant.

 

[Panajev2001a]

As with everything else, the only thing that matters is what makes the most business sense.
Would BC be awesome? Sure it would.
Would the average consumer even care? Uncertain.

We at GAF are not normies so we should not extrapolate our needs onto the general market for what we want.
If the average GAFfer were the target demographics, the PS5 would do 8k at 120fps. It would come with 16Tb of battery backed DRAM (because SSD is too slow)
and have 8 Power9 CPUs.


I spend more than most on games, I have >200 PS3 games and >100 PS4 games. Do I care about BC? No not really.
I will still keep my older consoles and playing a game on them is really just a click away to switch HDMI input on my TV.
I have my PS3 set up that way right now. I plan to buy a PS2 and collect those originals too.
Do I actually use my PS3 and play the games? Nope, very rarely bordering to never.

If BC is important to you. Good for you. For me I want to think it is but I know it is not.
For normies I know 100% it is irrelevant.

Why do you think that it is irrelevant for mobile adjusted “normies”?

 

[Panajev2001a]

Whilst I agree that a number of Nintendo's present-day policies can seem obtuse, many would argue they set the standard of expectation of BC in their products.

Regardless, in the context of the premise of the OP, the market has already shown that the impact of BC is negligible as of today.

I do feel we'll be approaching a watershed when it comes to digital libraries and generations of products. The main difference between software and other digital products is that software is always a bespoke-written-for-that-specific-platform product. Whether people care to pay attention to that detail or not is up to them, but it's factor.

Topics like these are why its understandable that streaming of content is becoming an increasingly common aspect of these company's comments.

So far they did not really set the norm for BC compared to PS... all consoles but PS4 and PS1 (d’uh...) were sporting well supported BC and technically Sony started supporting BC on home consoles before Nintendo did . Still, we shall see I guess .

 

[Cato]

Why do you think that it is irrelevant for mobile adjusted “normies”?

Normies want to play the latest and greatest game that is popular right now. Not last generation games.
There are a few of us that like to re-play Chrono Trigger every few years. No normies do that, ever.

 

[Halo0629]

Not really, Ps4 and switch still sells way way more than the one eventhough it doesn't have any bc.

People prefer to buy new consoles to play new games and not to play their old ones.

 

[Future]

Not really, Ps4 and switch still sells way way more than the one eventhough it doesn't have any bc.

People prefer to buy new consoles to play new games and not to play their old ones.

Yup. People buy new consoles to play new games primarily

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

They have no excuse this gen

No more cell but Sony will prob be greedy cunts

 

[AlexxKidd]

But do they want to? DO they have to? Sony is on top and they have the better exclusives but I think this could really hurt them next gen if they dont have backwards compatibility AT LEAST with the PS4.

Answered your own question. While Microsoft was busy adding higher resolution and framerates to games from over a decade ago Sony was putting together cant miss, brand new exclusives. I think we know which strategy won out.

Btw the Switch? No backwards compatibility. So from where i stand of the 3 consoles this generation, the two hottest sellers DONT have backwards compatability.

That said i believe the ps5 will have it to some degree, but it is by no means a must or necassary. You know what is? For them to keep pumping out those top tier exclusive games. Thats what really seperates the men from the boys. Everything else will be icing on the cake

 

[Cato]

Why do you think that it is irrelevant for mobile adjusted “normies”?

Because there is zero data that suggests that normies want this. There is on the other hand enormous amount of data that suggests that normal people cares nothing about previous generation hardware or games.

I think you overestimate the desire of nostalgia and old hw/sw. But who cares, we are just game freaks on a game freak forum. We are all the definition of irrelevance.

Regardless, if you are a fan of prev or older generation games. I have a spare Slim PS3 in fully functioning order, though it has a HW revision recent enough you can not install CFW on it :-(
If you live in .AU you can have it for free if you pay for postage. Should be ~25AUD or so.
It is a genuine offer. Anyone that wants it can have it.

If you live outside of .AU it is likely much cheaper to buy locally in your local .ebay.<your-country> than pay for postage from .AU

 

[Greedings]

No.

PS4 was a resounding success without it. The only way we can tell, is if they release PS5 without it, and it fails.

 

[Koala Driving a Ferrari]

Absolutely.

But I think backwards compatibility with the PS4 generation has been in their road map for PS5 all along. I'll roll my eyes if the PS5 back compat announcement is celebrated after the console is revealed. At this point, it shouldn't be celebrated (as it isn't a technical accomplishment) but it should be *expected*. If Sony say they are "allowing" x86 PS4 games to run on PS5, all they are saying is: "Hey guys, guess what? We're not total dicks".

 

[DeliciousDoc]

The franchises I follow are almost all on pc now. I don't have to worry about BC anymore.

looking forward to updating on my own terms.

like big smoke said in san andreas : "all you had to do is keep backward compability sony!"

 

[Chinbo37]

The franchises I follow are almost all on pc now. I don't have to worry about BC anymore.

looking forward to updating on my own terms.

like big smoke said in san andreas : "all you had to do is keep backward compability sony!"

I dunno, Bloodborne, God of War, Horizon. I dont have time to play all these games (I also primarily game on PC) and I would like some reassurances I can play these games later too. Also I specifically never buy digital games at all because I dont want to lose them in 5 to 10 years. So they are losing money from people like me at least, although I guess not a lot.

 

[Denton]

PS5 will use x86 and GCN again. It will run PS4 games because it is basically PC.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

No.

PS4 was a resounding success without it. The only way we can tell, is if they release PS5 without it, and it fails.

The Ps4 didnt have the cell.

You guys are crazy btw why wouldn't you want it to play ps4 games? Its something that can be implemented easilly and if you don't like it well guess what...you don't have to play ps4 games on your 5! I like playing ds games on my 3ds and wii u games on my sw... Oh.

 

[Toe-Knee]

Not really. People buy new costumes too play new games. At least everyone I know does.

If I want to play old games I have old consoles.

 

[daibaron]

No, back compat is not required. Gamers want cutting edge games and consoles, people are thirsty for next gen.

 

[Greedings]

The Ps4 didnt have the cell.

You guys are crazy btw why wouldn't you want it to play ps4 games? Its something that can be implemented easilly and if you don't like it well guess what...you don't have to play ps4 games on your 5! I like playing ds games on my 3ds and wii u games on my sw... Oh.

It's irrelevant whether it COULD do it or not. The PS4 is not back compatible, and sold just fine...well better than just fine.

I never said I don't want the PS5 to be back compatible, I do, I just don't think it will happen.

 

[InterMusketeer]

I don't think it's necessary for a successful system. The Switch doesn't have BC. The PS4 didn't either. It's nice to have, but not required.

For me personally, I'd be much more interested in the PS5, if I could play all my PS4 games on it as well, as that would mean I don't have to keep two consoles around and connected to the TV. I'd also be able to sell the PS4 to offset some of the costs of buying the new system. So for me, it's a pretty big deal for the next gen systems.

 

[Hostile_18]

Seems crazy to me how many people don't think back comparability is going to be a certainty...

The PS4 was successful because of its Pro Consumer policies. Digital libraries are more important than ever this gen and if one console had full access to it's back library and one didn't, the one that didn't would lose a significant chunk of its loyal customers (even if it was just -10% that market share is critical in the early adopter/influencer market).

When a new gen is just starting consumers are never more powerful vs the manufacturers as has been shown time and time again. If Sony allowed gamers to "keep" their games it would make financial sense on so many levels. It would make adoption of the new console faster, it would "lock in" existing customers tied to the ps4 infrastructure, it would create good will. Sony has worked hard to get the market share it has now, this would capitalise on that and cement it's future.

Relax guys PS4 back compatability is a sure thing.

 

[GoldenEye98]

The expectation is there now. As with most modern console features Microsoft sets them, Sony follows.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

It's irrelevant whether it COULD do it or not. The PS4 is not back compatible, and sold just fine...well better than just fine.

I never said I don't want the PS5 to be back compatible, I do, I just don't think it will happen.

Objection! The ps4 sold fine because of how badly MS and Nintendo did.They also had a legit excuse for not having backwards comp AND now that MS X is selling better than the regular one and it offers back comp Sony has to follow suit. Esp since the next bone will have back comp.

 

[Breakage]

I'm sitting this gen out, so if there is no BC, I won't be buying a PS5.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

I'm sitting this gen out, so if there is no BC, I won't be buying a PS5.

its still current gen in current year

 

[FranXico]

BC was standard before this generation and will be standard next gen as well. PS2 and PS3 both were backwards compatible, the PS4 is the exception, not the rule.

The expectation is there now. As with most modern console features Microsoft sets them, Sony follows.

If you're referring to practices such as online paywall and DLC exclusivity, I wholeheartedly agree.

Thank you Microsoft, for the immense innovation You have brought to this industry.

 

[Breakage]

its still current gen in current year

I know, but I think for the first time since I started gaming I will be skipping a gen, just not into it at the moment. Also, I don't want to start building up a library only to find out it isn't transferable.

 

[Greedings]

Objection! The ps4 sold fine because of how badly MS and Nintendo did.They also had a legit excuse for not having backwards comp AND now that MS X is selling better than the regular one and it offers back comp Sony has to follow suit. Esp since the next bone will have back comp.

Again it’s irrelevant how the others did. If back compatibility was an issue it would have affected sales. It didn’t. Back compatibility has rarely affected sales throughout console history.

Really the point you should be making is that most people were using physical at the generation change. Now there’s a significant chunk of people who are using digital only. That’s the key difference between this gen and last gen, and all other gens. People may be less willing to buy something without back compatibility as they cannot sell off their old games.

 

[Trogdor1123]

This is the first generation where it matters to me, usually I would not even think about it but with system accounts, massive digital libraries, subscription services and the like I expect them to have it.

The real reason to do it though has nothing to do with all that, it is to keep a person invested in their ecosystem. The harder it is to jump ship the more likely they are to remain a customer, which is all they really care about. Why let a customer think they can leave if you can avoid it.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

Again it’s irrelevant how the others did. If back compatibility was an issue it would have affected sales. It didn’t. Back compatibility has rarely affected sales throughout console history.

Really the point you should be making is that most people were using physical at the generation change. Now there’s a significant chunk of people who are using digital only. That’s the key difference between this gen and last gen, and all other gens. People may be less willing to buy something without back compatibility as they cannot sell off their old games.

What? Console players are still mostly buying physical here. In the USA this ain't no commie PC steam country comrade! And even if it was XBOX supports digital backwards comp 2 so ???