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[radewagon]

Last year, I bought my first Xbox ever because of its excellent backwards compatibility. I don't think that markets have made BC a requirement (quite the contrary given PS4's success), but I do hope that it makes it's way into the next generation of consoles. What X1X has been able to do with old games is nothing short of amazing. Honestly, MS's E3 conference really should have focused on what they've been able to achieve with it and even showed off some new titles coming to the platform with 1X enhancements.

 

[Redshirt]

Yes. And I can't imagine a PS5 that isn't backward-compatible. It's just not going to happen.

People can say it didn't affect sales--and maybe it didn't--but since MS efforts came post-2013 when most consumers had made up their minds, I hardly see how it matters.

The growth of digital adoption is also a good point. There will be more people who care.

Also, the console audience will shrink (this will be the biggest console gen ever--book it), and there will be added pressure to convert the existing base.

 

[Tao Pai Pai]

By 2020 CPUs should have ridiculous amount of computing power making BC very easy to implement. I passed on this console GEN so BC is definitely a great appeal to me.

 

[Mr Hyde]

I will be very disappointed if Sony doesn´t include backwards compatibility on PS5. Having multiple consoles under the teve is just so 90s and it´s clumsy and looks terrible. I have invested a lot in my PS4 and want to carry over all that investment to the PS5.

 

[jshackles]

Relax guys PS4 back compatability is a sure thing.

Sony has a history of not learning from their mistakes, and I think honestly they just got lucky this generation with the PS4. If backwards compatibility were a "sure thing" for the next Playstation, E3 would have been a great time to make that announcement - there are a lot of people (OP included) that have stopped buying digital games because they know the generation is drawing to a close. Others, like me, started shifting all of their multi-platform digital game purchases to Xbox because they play better on the X and it seems much more likely that they'll also be playable on future hardware. You did make a good point about how critical consumer choice is at the beginning of the generation though, and with digital libraries being much more prevalent now than they were in the past, backwards compatibility will definitely be a battleground that could sway more customers in any one direction if future consoles do/don't have it.

 

[Pachi72]

Xbox One and PS4 have X86 architecture. Meaning IT HAS TO BE backwards compatible. It's been like this on PC for 20 years.

 

[bhunachicken]

Xbox One and PS4 have X86 architecture. Meaning IT HAS TO BE backwards compatible. It's been like this on PC for 20 years.

So long as Sony doesn't do something absolutely batshit crazy like change all the APIs and drivers, so the compiled binaries can't talk to the hardware properly anymore ...

 

[Son_of_Zardoz]

They don't have to, but it would be the smart thing to do (at least allowing people to carry their PS4 libraries forward).

 

[Maxximus]

I've already decided if PS5 is not backwards compatible with PS4 then I am buying an Xbox. There is literally no excuse that PS5 can't be backwards compatible given how the platform is now industry standard parts.

 

[BANGS]

The market has certainly not decided that. Xbone has it and is selling the weakest vs Switch and PS4 that don't have it.

That said, I really wish it were the case that BC was standard. I thought we were getting there last gen and then it all fell apart somehow...

 

[Leonard Washington]

Given the structure of consoles now and how I imagine they'll be going forwards BC is a non brainer especially as things are moving more and more digital as people expect to be able to access their back catalogues more now than the physical days as the reminder of the loot they spent is staring them in the face.

I predict that PS5 BC will be a thing of wonder though, especially if they manage to pull off PS3 emulation (which considering how RCPS3 is making strides should be doable) because launching a machine with a campaign along the lines of "From 1994 to 2020 and beyond all on one system" using an animation like this:

Interspersed with the evolution of graphics across the famous franchises as they rolled on would have an immense amount of gamers throwing their hat into the Sony corner purely due to the back catalogue and the ease of being able to play them on modern screens and all the rest that comes along with it.

 

[MrRenegade]

I've already decided if PS5 is not backwards compatible with PS4 then I am buying an Xbox. There is literally no excuse that PS5 can't be backwards compatible given how the platform is now industry standard parts.

Jesus, kiddos crying about stuff, like it matters. You don't make market research, you just demand things without knowing any background information. Backwards compatibility is a bullshit buzzword hyped up by the media. 95% of the people live in the present. They don't care if a game released 10 years ago works on a state of the art console or not. People forget what the fuck was 5 years ago, not 10-20 years ago. If you want your game, buy a physical copy and keep your old console, or buy for a few bucks a used one later on.

 

[Chinbo37]

The market has certainly not decided that. Xbone has it and is selling the weakest vs Switch and PS4 that don't have it.

That said, I really wish it were the case that BC was standard. I thought we were getting there last gen and then it all fell apart somehow...

This is a bit misleading though. XBone didnt have the backwards compatibility until recently. PS4 was already so far ahead it wasnt catchable. Adding backwards compatibility for the Xbone wasnt going to change that.

My point was that the market going forward for the next gen may have changed, and not having backwards compatibility could be a game changer for people making their next console choice.

 

[BANGS]

This is a bit misleading though. XBone didnt have the backwards compatibility until recently. PS4 was already so far ahead it wasnt catchable. Adding backwards compatibility for the Xbone wasnt going to change that.

My point was that the market going forward for the next gen may have changed, and not having backwards compatibility could be a game changer for people making their next console choice.

Doubtful, it's never really been a huge factor. For alot of us it's very important, but in general the masses don't care too much. Especially if said compatibility only goes back one gen... not gonna help all that much. It certainly is a booster shot but not a huge deal.

For alot of us though, BC is awesome. I love what Microsoft is doing and I really hope they keep it up. Next gen if enough games are supported, I may buy into it just to play the large library of older games. But we must realize that we are the minority on this. People buy new consoles to play new games, not old ones...

 

[NickFire]

The market has certainly not decided that. Xbone has it and is selling the weakest vs Switch and PS4 that don't have it.

That said, I really wish it were the case that BC was standard. I thought we were getting there last gen and then it all fell apart somehow...

Disagree Bangs. Market is whispering about it and not yelling yet sure. We're in a happy place where it doesn't get talked about much because it's not all that relevant yet since the generation continues on. But there are 80 Million PS4's out there, many of which have an extensive digital library. If they have to choose between losing all value for old purchases and trusting Sony to not fool them twice, or go with the company that has shown a commitment to never let that happen (and which will quite likely have a more powerful system), the market will be very loud and very fast.

Mr. Renegade - I wouldn't put much stock in market research here, at least not until the actual launch of next generation. Market research will not matter a shred until one company highlights the feature and the other doesn't have it. That's when people will start thinking in earnest by and large. This could end up being MS payback for Sony's used games video before this generation launched.

One thing I am certain of, is if there is no backwards compatibility I am out of the PSN eco-system. Not going back to discs, and not getting burned twice.

 

[jshackles]

Jesus, kiddos crying about stuff, like it matters. You don't make market research, you just demand things without knowing any background information. Backwards compatibility is a bullshit buzzword hyped up by the media. 95% of the people live in the present. They don't care if a game released 10 years ago works on a state of the art console or not. People forget what the fuck was 5 years ago, not 10-20 years ago. If you want your game, buy a physical copy and keep your old console, or buy for a few bucks a used one later on.

That must be why remasters are so popular, huh? Everyone collectively forgot about Bioshock, so the reason the remaster sold so well on modern consoles was because it was an exciting new game that nobody had every heard of.

Or why the Crash Bandicoot remaster is currently the 8th best selling PS4 game of all time - everyone was excited to see what Naughty Dog was up to after they finished Uncharted 4.

Back here in reality, some people actually hold attachments to games they love and would prefer to play them again without having to hook up their old systems. Having increased graphical fidelity and higher framerates is just icing on the cake.

 

[Redshirt]

Jesus, kiddos crying about stuff, like it matters. You don't make market research, you just demand things without knowing any background information. Backwards compatibility is a bullshit buzzword hyped up by the media. 95% of the people live in the present. They don't care if a game released 10 years ago works on a state of the art console or not. People forget what the fuck was 5 years ago, not 10-20 years ago. If you want your game, buy a physical copy and keep your old console, or buy for a few bucks a used one later on.

 

[flashfire926]

I don't think PS5 will have backwards compatibilty. After all, how else will they get the extra cash from remasters/releases and PS NOW subs?

 

[BANGS]

Disagree Bangs. Market is whispering about it and not yelling yet sure. We're in a happy place where it doesn't get talked about much because it's not all that relevant yet since the generation continues on.

How you gonna say you disagree but completely agree? lmfao
As far as people clamoring towards xbox next gen because of BC, I just don't see the numbers being that big. It's not like when you buy a PS5, a Sony exec comes by and throws your PS4 in the trash, people can still play their games. I DO agree that there will be a decent sized chunk of us going towards xbox next gen because of this, but the casual gamer who makes up 90% of console sales(yes I pulled that number out of my ass) isn't gonna give a damn...

 

[Toe-Knee]

Xbox One and PS4 have X86 architecture. Meaning IT HAS TO BE backwards compatible. It's been like this on PC for 20 years.

Not true there are many games on pc made for older operating systems that don't just work on modern ones.

Metal gear solid 2 being one you have to prat around on Google finding fixes and then when you get it to boot there are still loads of issues due to missing features on modern sound cards and graphics cards.

Just using that as an example as it was a mess I had to deal with recently.

 

[Pachi72]

I don't think PS5 will have backwards compatibilty. After all, how else will they get the extra cash from remasters/releases and PS NOW subs?

The only reason they doing Remaster is because of the Ps3 hardware not compatible with Ps4

 

[NickFire]

How you gonna say you disagree but completely agree? lmfao
As far as people clamoring towards xbox next gen because of BC, I just don't see the numbers being that big. It's not like when you buy a PS5, a Sony exec comes by and throws your PS4 in the trash, people can still play their games. I DO agree that there will be a decent sized chunk of us going towards xbox next gen because of this, but the casual gamer who makes up 90% of console sales(yes I pulled that number out of my ass) isn't gonna give a damn...

Well, we sorta agree I guess. But I think the market already expects it is what I am getting at, or will as soon as the relevant E3 concludes. So I'm saying the market has demanded it, but the demands just aren't that apparent.

Your other points: 1) Almost every early adopter I have ever known traded in the expiring generation to offset the next generation. 2) If you lose the early adopters, you very well lost the casuals IMO.

 

[MrRenegade]

That must be why remasters are so popular, huh? Everyone collectively forgot about Bioshock, so the reason the remaster sold so well on modern consoles was because it was an exciting new game that nobody had every heard of.

Or why the Crash Bandicoot remaster is currently the 8th best selling PS4 game of all time - everyone was excited to see what Naughty Dog was up to after they finished Uncharted 4.

Back here in reality, some people actually hold attachments to games they love and would prefer to play them again without having to hook up their old systems. Having increased graphical fidelity and higher framerates is just icing on the cake.

Exactly my point. Remaster is not the old game. It's the old game with upped graphics, what you can buy for a great price. So why the backwards compatibility?

 

[flashfire926]

The only reason they doing Remaster is because of the Ps3 hardware not compatible with Ps4

How do you explain PS2 re-releases on PS4?
Bottom line is, Sony knows they can get away with it. They are more about the money than the consumer, now. Which is unfortunate.

 

[Rayderism]

BC is important to me. I'm a mood gamer. Sometimes I get in a mood to play older games. I have a PS2/3 and PS4 under my TV for just that reason. It would really be nice to be able to eliminate all those consoles and just have one that plays them all.

 

[jshackles]

Exactly my point. Remaster is not the old game. It's the old game with upped graphics, what you can buy for a great price. So why the backwards compatibility?

I played the original Crackdown in 4K on the Xbox One X by putting my old disc in the new console which cost me nothing. It was a better experience than most of the cash-grab remasters. Why buy the game again, regardless of the price, since I already own it? Ideally, I would be able to do this with the next Xbox console - not only with my physical discs but also my digital purchases.

 

[BANGS]

Almost every early adopter I have ever known traded in the expiring generation to offset the next generation.

I was unaware this was a common thing. It always seemed like the rare case in my experience... I wish we could find hard data on this but I doubt it exists...

 

[Fbh]

I don't think the market demands it but I think the Ps5 will be backwards compatible.
The majority of the mainstream audience buys new consoles to play new games. They'll buy a Ps5 to play the new COD and Battlefield and Fifa and Assassins Creed. I think most will look at backwards compatibility as a nice bonus but not a must.

But I think the Ps5 will have it because the next Xbox most probably will, and if anyone of importance at Sony still remembers the first years of last gen they'll know they can't just rest easy because they had the lead this gen. Giving people access to the games they got this gen is a nice bonus incentive to stick with the Playstation ecosystem which would be a good way to take advantage of the notorious lead they have this gen.

Personally though. Yeah, I definitely demand backwards compatibility. I'm happy with Ps4 being my main platform but if there's no BC I'll probably switch to PC and then get a Ps5 down the line to play exclusives

I'd say no, it hasn't.

Also, UK retail saw Shadow of the Colossus PS4 remaster re-enter the top 40 for boxed retail sales.

But it wasn't just a remaster. It wasn't just the standard "better resolution and a slight texture upgrade" kind of deal.
It was a full current gen remake.

One can only speculate but I think it would have sold well even if the Ps3 version was playable on ps4.
Backwards compatibility kills the market of basic remasters, not the one of actual remakes

 

[manfestival]

the market has changed and with it the need for backwards compatibility. It has just become a thing where they adjust it so it can be cross played or they just "update" the game and sell it at a premium for the update.

 

[93xfan]

No, not really. Market has dictated that BC doesn't matter much since PS4 outsells Xbox by about double.

They might still do it now, at least for PS4, because they aren't working against completely different architecture like PS3.

I’ve owned all systems for the past 3 generations (except for the WiiU). I’d be done with Sony and would never look back if they don’t do BC next gen. Matter of fact, I’m still sour we don’t have at least PS1 BC.

 

[zeorhymer]

I believe that Xbox had to do something because of their dismal lineup. Backwards compatibility was a feature to let Xbox folks feel that their choice was not misspent due to the low exclusive games. Since more and more people are buying digital, it's getting harder and harder not to justify backwards compatibility. For me, if PS5 doesn't let my purchases carry over, there will be zero reason to buy one at day one. I don't think there will be a huge difference in either graphics or sound quality from 4 to 5 as it was from either of the previous numbers.

 

[Musky_Cheese]

Whether it is a deciding factor for next gen obviously remains to be seen.

However the PS4 and Switch are selling crazy well without it. Xbox One and Wii U didn't with it. Hell, PS3 didn't start selling until they dropped it.

Price, price/performance, exclusives are system sellers. BC and Power aren't huge factors.

 

[autoduelist]

If anything, the market has dictated that BC doesn't matter. That said, I'm fairly certain the PS5 will have PS4 BC. And I I wish the PS4 had taken the same route with PS2 and PS1 that the PS3 did. I don't ever expect PS3 BC and I'm okay with that.

 

[Drewpee]

Not yet, but that is really only because PS4 has been dominating console sales and does not support it. As a result most of their players will either not see a reason for it, or try to excuse it because it is their platform of choice. But I think once the new consoles are announced PlayStation gamers are going to be pissed if they don't have a backwards compatibility option.

 

[Xilium]

There doesn't seem to be any evidence supporting BC as a system seller outside of the launch of a console because of the lack of games during that time (and even then, that's arguable). It's always been something that only matters to gaming enthusiast.

I mean, Microsoft is only doing BC right now purely as a PR move in their continued effort to recover from their XBO reveal. Nintendo has made reselling you games a core part of their business model and Sony abandoned BC back in the early years of the PS3 and by all accounts, that didn't hurt them in the slightest. Also, the sales success of re-releases, remasters, and remakes prove that companies would just be leaving money on the table by giving that stuff away for free.

Maybe with console hardware using more traditional PC parts, BC can be done easier but I'm not a programmer or engineer, so I have no confidence in saying that. It's often stated though that making games BC takes a lot more work than many people on gaming forums give credit to and to do that work to then give away the game for free just doesn't make a lot of business sense.

Also, I'm not sure why people keep bringing up games being digital. The only difference between a digital game and a physical one is the medium in which the content is delivered, the code is the same. I don't see how digital games are somehow more capable to be backwards compatible.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

It would be a dangerous move not to have it for at least PS4 games, that's for sure.

I think they will though.

 

[Larxia]

Exactly my point. Remaster is not the old game. It's the old game with upped graphics, what you can buy for a great price. So why the backwards compatibility?

So you don't have to rebuy the same game again? And because HD remasters are super lazy?

Do you actually know how the backward compatibility works on the xbox one? It's not just playing the old game as it was, it's more like how it's always been on pc, you put your old disc in your console, it downloads a patch and you can play your 15 years old game in higher resolution and higher framerate. You don't need HD remasters for that, the assets from the original games are most of the time perfectly enough to have a decent experience now. Buying a game a 2nd time just for an enhanced resolution is beyond ridiculous.
I mean even emulation on pc has proven that since a long time now, some games running on PS2 emulator in 4K on pc look as good as the official "HD Remaster" that are sold for 40$. A remaster is not needed to improve resolution and framerate, not at all.

The example of Crash is different, it's a whole remake, not a remaster.

 

[DryvBy]

Some GAF user found that patent from Mark Cerny which was about BC. I'm hoping it becomes a thing in the future. I'm one of the few that also hopes they continue putting PS2 games out on PS4 for the trophies. I really like getting those in old games.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Dear Sony: Yes it has.

I really really hope they don't flub that up. I know they said they like dedicated generations, but the systems will be more similar than any two systems before and it wouldn't be as excusable as the PS3-PS4 where the architectures were wildly different, if Microsoft did it.

If it isn't, I'll be a lot less sticky on which platform I stick to.

 

[hiphopcr]

Not just backwards compatibility, but superbackwards compatibility (going back through all generations) masterfully done (all games look and run better, 4k upgrades, free enhancements, and they magically appear in your game library).

Between this and Game Pass, Xbox will have an undeniable advantage going forward unless Sony and Nintendo follow.

 

[baphomet]

Asking this sub is pretty pointless. According to some, not only will they be backwards compatible (they will), but their current consoles will also play next gen games.

 

[pr0cs]

Any console that doesn't have any bc going forward deserves to fail. They don't respect my digital purchases, then they don't deserve my money.

It's exactly why I stopped playing my ps4, I do not trust Sony to do the right thing by me as a consumer.

 

[BANGS]

Not just backwards compatibility, but superbackwards compatibility (going back through all generations) masterfully done (all games look and run better, 4k upgrades, free enhancements, and they magically appear in your game library).

Between this and Game Pass, Xbox will have an undeniable advantage going forward unless Sony and Nintendo follow.

I dunno about that. Again it's really awesome that they're doing this, but people don't buy new consoles to play old games. People buy new consoles to play new exclusive games, something xbox has an undeniable disadvantage in. But they did just throw a ton of money at some studios, if they can get back on track then hell yes xbox will have the best foundation for a new console! I'm very excited to see what they can do to get gamers back...

 

[Toe-Knee]

I don't get the people saying that if there's no BC and their games don't carry over they will switch platforms. There games won't carry over to there either.

Still losing everything.

 

[Hostile_18]

Sony has a history of not learning from their mistakes, and I think honestly they just got lucky this generation with the PS4. If backwards compatibility were a "sure thing" for the next Playstation, E3 would have been a great time to make that announcement - there are a lot of people (OP included) that have stopped buying digital games because they know the generation is drawing to a close. Others, like me, started shifting all of their multi-platform digital game purchases to Xbox because they play better on the X and it seems much more likely that they'll also be playable on future hardware. You did make a good point about how critical consumer choice is at the beginning of the generation though, and with digital libraries being much more prevalent now than they were in the past, backwards compatibility will definitely be a battleground that could sway more customers in any one direction if future consoles do/don't have it.

I think ultimately in the past gaming was still a young industry and developing all the time. However the trends of how to launch a successful console seems so clear now I can see both MS and Sony making no major mistakes. Put gamers first (early adopters) make pro consumer choices, make the platform as easy to develop for as possible and launch with a strong software line-up. As mentioned Sony has a huge market share now and back compatibility is an easy way to lock in it's user base and make a transition to a new machine with fewer barriers to entry.

Perhaps back comparability isn't as important to the main stream user (debateable) but it is to early adopters / hard-core games. The ones both consoles need to initially appease. The prevalence of digital libraries is a huge thing now and gaming more mainstream than ever. There's a reason why all 4k players and blu ray players play standard dvds as well afterall.

I know this E3 and cross platform play could be seen as arrogant Sony making an appearance but I think this is more business related decisions to create a strong PS5 launch and maintain its dominant place in the market respectively. I don't feel this E3 would of been the time to mention PS5 features just yet, again for commercial reasons. It might have some monetary effect right now but I'm sure it's a weighted business decision.

 

[Hostile_18]

I don't get the people saying that if there's no BC and their games don't carry over they will switch platforms. There games won't carry over to there either.

Still losing everything.

Well to be fair you would but would only have to start over again once. I don't think it will happen but if Sony don't allow me to bring my hundreds of pounds worth of games over I'd certainly jump ship so I never have to "lose" my collection again. However I think this scenario is extremely unlikely.

 

[Son_of_Zardoz]

I dunno about that. Again it's really awesome that they're doing this, but people don't buy new consoles to play old games. People buy new consoles to play new exclusive games, something xbox has an undeniable disadvantage in. But they did just throw a ton of money at some studios, if they can get back on track then hell yes xbox will have the best foundation for a new console! I'm very excited to see what they can do to get gamers back...

Yeah, it's a great feature going forward but isn't going to set the world on fire with the mass market at launch.

 

[Toe-Knee]

Well to be fair you would but would only have to start over again once. I don't think it will happen but if Sony don't allow me to bring my hundreds of pounds worth of games over I'd certainly jump ship so I never have to "lose" my collection again. However I think this scenario is extremely unlikely.

I'd say chances are good as it's been there on 2/4 of the consoles so far.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

That must be why remasters are so popular, huh? Everyone collectively forgot about Bioshock, so the reason the remaster sold so well on modern consoles was because it was an exciting new game that nobody had every heard of.

Or why the Crash Bandicoot remaster is currently the 8th best selling PS4 game of all time - everyone was excited to see what Naughty Dog was up to after they finished Uncharted 4.

Back here in reality, some people actually hold attachments to games they love and would prefer to play them again without having to hook up their old systems. Having increased graphical fidelity and higher framerates is just icing on the cake.

Remasters are slightly different beasts, though. Especially in the case of Crash Bandicoot. I've never had any desire to go back and play the original PS1 version, but I was mildly curious about the new version.

Mario 64 and Ocarina of TIme were fun games back in their day, but they don't hold up as well. However, if they remade them in a manner similar to Crash, then I'd be all over it.

 

[Schrödinger's cat]

Sense.

A lot of sense in this post. Especially the last paragraph.

As for the sentiment of "Sony need to let me take my games with me".
No, they don't.
I mean, sure, it'd be awful nice if they did, but they're not obliged to do anything of the sort.

Consumers purchased access to a piece of software for a specific hardware platform, not any other platform.
It is bespoke software, written to run on a specific piece of hardware to a very specific set of instructions.
Any expectation people have that the access they purchased for software custom designed to run on Platform A grants them rights for the same software to run on Platform B is one based on anecdotal interest.

Sony aren't going to make your PS4 games stop working on your PS4 when PS5 comes out.
The only way you'll not be able to play your PS4 purchases is if you decide to discard your PS4 machine.

If you don't want to 'give up hundreds of dollars of purchases' then ... don't.