You wouldn't complain of it if it was Ellie kissing the guy. Stop fooling around. A presentation is just like any other trailer for movies or series, which casually depicit affection.
I am not a defender of agenda or any of this bullshit, but I don't like to pretend to be offended because Twitter witches and political groups are constantly forcing things into media.
It was totally fine. I'll call the shots. Stop being hypocritical in this case. You all know we are not in the 50s, and media trailers every now and then show couples kissing. So... Stop.
If you don't think too much SJW influence does not harm the final product I dare you to sit through the Flash Season 4.
Naughty Dog should've just created a whole new IP to push Neil Drukmann's agenda. It feels wrong that they're taking an established, best-selling game to do it instead. The original had a strong focus on the relationship between Ellie and Joel. Now we're getting something completely different just because of that creepy bastard's lesbian fetishism.
SOURCEIGN said:Numerous trusted sources close to Naughty Dog have verified Hennig’s departure from the studio. She was writing and leading development of Uncharted PS4. Her final day at the studio was Monday, March 3.
Sources claim Hennig was “forced out” by The Last of Us’ Neil Druckmann and Bruce Straley, and explained that Uncharted may now come under their control.
SOURCEPlaystation Lifestyle said:Several people who have worked for Naughty Dog say Druckmann and Straley stopped seeing eye-to-eye with Hennig, and that they had fundamental disagreements on where to take the Uncharted series. When Hennig left, she signed a non-disparagement agreement with the studio that would prevent both her and Naughty Dog from making negative public comments about what had happened, according to people familiar with the arrangement.
I don't think it was that bad, the all girl episode where they was cheering feminism was cringey.If you don't think too much SJW influence does not harm the final product I dare you to sit through the Flash Season 4.
If you don't think too much SJW influence does not harm the final product I dare you to sit through the Flash Season 4.
When the devs themselves, along with gaming "journalists" are all demonizing their own customers via social media, it's hardly surprising that forum posters immediately hop on the same crutch.Why is it that a conversation about whether forcing political correctness into a medium is hurting that medium, always turns into a discussion about whether someone is homophobic, sexist or racist? Why do we get this disconnect? They are two completely different conversations. From what I'm seeing, some people legitimately engage with the question, deciding they agree or disagree based on 'thinking', whilst others take the easy route of demonising the person (or the idea). Which of the previous types are likely to be simply virtue signalling? It's not really a difficult choice is it ...
What is contradictory about this sentence? 'I'm all for including everyone in games but I'm completely against forcing everyone into games for the sake of it.' At what point in that sentence does your brain *snap* and cause you to ignore the context?
In writing, there are some basic rules. Neil himself likes to quote one of them, which is 'simple story, complex characters.' There are many others too. 'Avoid cliques', 'always write from your own experiences' and 'do not moralise or get on your soap box'. That last one is the reason many people are getting tired of this 'forced inclusion'. We're not used to seeing that in our medium because it's 'to be avoided'.
Maybe it would serve this conversation better if we did look at it from that perspective.
I do hope TLOU 2 is not just about revenge. Finger crossed.We'd probably be laughing about it, because it would be yet another game where a guy takes revenge because someone was killed or kidnapped or whatever.
Watched it already. It was on point on many levels and I'll repeat what I've been telling everyone else; forced, fabricated "diversity" isn't very "diverse" and the message is lost. This video isn't meant to convey "I'm not going to play this game" because Robin enjoys the series, he's essentially saying that Naughty Dog trying to cram social justice propaganda down our throats is alienating opposing thought for the purpose of their own mere personal satisfaction.
It's ironically turning into hate itself and, even though game developers have every right to make whatever experience they want for players, this issue can change with enough backlash. My issue with the E3 kiss was not depictions of LGBT romance, but PDA in front of a mass audience. It's arguably inappropriate, and even if they showed straight people doing that it still would have had some sort of negative reaction in my opinion.
I'm just going to be honest, I think you don't have a problem with it because you agree with their agenda.
Who said that same-sex couples are "weird"? We're just saying that any form of PDA in front of a mass audience that is in turn out of place should be considered inappropriate, no matter the sexuality involved. This form of "agenda", make no mistake, is propaganda.
That show was horrible long before season 4.If you don't think too much SJW influence does not harm the final product I dare you to sit through the Flash Season 4.
"There seems to be an agenda here" vs "Everyone boycott this product because it does something I don't like!"
Can you spot the difference?
This is essentially where I'm at too. You read Madame Bovary, Anna Karenina and good old Jane Austen and consider these incredible female characters who demonstrate the entire breadth of the human experience, and then you compare it to a lady kicking chaps in the balls and swinging through the jungle.
I personally don't think games should attempt any sort of message at all. I think it is a poor, limited medium for such a lofty goal. It's like trying to sail the Atlantic on a piano. Games are a craft, not an art - the magic is in the design and the mechanics and the physical interaction between the player and the sprites on the screen. As a caveat, I'd say something like Bioshock does a good job of conveying a mood - so the concept of individuality and objectivism is neatly portrayed.
I suppose the one good thing you could say is that Naughty Dog is paving the way for other types of character to be portrayed in an utterly banal, simplistic manner; and I guess that's a good thing if you're into utterly banal, simplistic characters.
It's been less than a month, but your point is valid. I doubt it will affect sales negatively or positively though.Actually, the more I read this thread, the more i think for Naughty Dog to show this kiss was the smartest move they could make, from a marketing point of view.
The fact people are still discussing this months after tells a lot.
I have no problem with TLoU's stuff since it was actually baked into the story since the expac for the first game, it makes sense, and seems realistic within the game world.
Where I had a problem was Nadine from UC4. Nate is basically a one man army for 3 games then continually gets his ass handed to him (once with his brother helping) by the strong female archetype. It was just a little too "on the nose", where it could have been done more believably if she used her wits to trap him into various disadvantageous situations, but they went full on with the physical prowess angle.
She was clearly trained in martial arts. Any martial artist trained to a high level can easily take down 2 brawlers regardless of gender.Nadine in UC4 was ridiculously strong to the point it broke the immersion of the game cinematic fight.
I can almost expect her throw a fireball given her unrealistic ability to take out 2 very experience men.
She was clearly trained in martial arts. Any martial artist trained to a high level can easily take down 2 brawlers regardless of gender.
Also Nate was never great with physical combat he excelled with guns.
Good video.
It is obvious that Druckmann has an agenda, which is fine. It is his game to make. The market will decide whether they like it or not.
The absurd notion that pointing the agenda out is somehow indicative of being on the wrong side of history though it what bothers me. I personally have no issues with Ellie being gay or sharing a kiss in game. That is part of what makes her a interesting character. I do kind of find it jarring that it would be the central focus of that trailer though. It felt forced. Like it was only there for the (negative) attention it would get (which in a way is good marketing I guess).
Let's be honest here - people say they don't really have an issue with gays, but the truth is - if they're bothered by this trailer, they probably do.
Maybe you mean the kiss? I found the trailer’s violence digusting (in the sense that it made me queasy) because of the high fidelty violence.
Working towards photorealistic murder simulation seems a bizzarre thing to devote your professional life to.
They know their consumer base is still overwhelmingly heterosexual men and that this would probably hurt sales. You are right though, they seem to only want to push things to a point where it won't hurt the bottom line. I'm not sure if this is necessarily cowardice or just the result of being a Sony 1st party studio though.Naughty dog took the easy route. Had they any balls they would have made them men kissing instead of the safe, more accepted women kissing.
Again, I don't have an issue with the in-game stuff, it was how they hired the reporter and the transgender person. They clearly didn't practice fair or equal opportunity to others. It gives the appearance that they are on the far left. Far to either side is bad imo.
how? You've seen nothing of it yetI bet good money, that like kathleen Kennedy and star wars, Druckmann's name in 5 years or so will go down in infamy as the man who destroyed naughty dog. He will continue to push his progressive agenda that he openly admits too and will go further past the views than what is palpable to the moderate gamer. I dont doubt he is a good game director, TLOU is proof of that, but his hubris, virtue signaling and pride will bring him down. The quality of products will decline too, im certain TLOU 2 will be inferior to TLOU in all the areas that matter.
I believe the idea was to juxtapose scenes of love with scenes of violence, possibly foreshadowing the loss of that love. It's a nice contrast, and I think the trailer is more interesting because of it. The fact that the 'love' scene is about two gay women is just staying true to Ellie's character.
I don't really understand why people have a problem with this. If the gameplay and story suffer because of some "agenda" or whatever, the game will be bad. But we won't know that until the game is out.
Let's be honest here - people say they don't really have an issue with gays, but the truth is - if they're bothered by this trailer, they probably do.
And yet Nathan alone can still beat a highly military trained Zoran Lazarevic in Uncharted 2.
It's a dumb scene but I feel like they covered their tracks because both Nate and his brother were visibly winded in the scene. That said, Nate being winded didn't really make sense because it's literally never been a problem in the entire series up until that point - it was pure convenience and clearly in service of Nadine's "character".Nadine in UC4 was ridiculously strong to the point it broke the immersion of the game cinematic fight.
I can almost expect her throw a fireball given her unrealistic ability to take out 2 very experience men.
You have a very conflict orientated mind. Perhaps there's another way ...No, because both approaches seek to malign, and discourage others from liking the product in question.
Different means to achieve the same ends.
It's a dumb scene but I feel like they covered their tracks because both Nate and his brother were visibly winded in the scene. That said, Nate being winded didn't really make sense because it's literally never been a problem in the entire series up until that point - it was pure convenience and clearly in service of Nadine's "character".
Why are we now talking about UC? It's perfectly acceptable for Nadine to beat Nathan Drake in a pop-corn movie inspired game. Know your genres. TLOU is different. There's a reason the hardest difficulty is called 'Grounded'.
For years politicians have been scapegoating violence in video games. I guess ND found that two girls kissing would suitably distract from all those Nathan Drake murder sprees.
Well if it makes a difference Ellie murders people too and in the most brutal, gruesome ways, that make uncharted's rag doll animations look like childs play. She probably kills just as many as well.
I suppose you can say it was nothing.
But I think the fact they replicated the room at E3 was probably done to put you in the trailer as a person in that room kinda indicates that scenes importance not to mention it completely put a downer on the Sony's E3 because of all the moving around.
I don't think it was that bad, the all girl episode where they was cheering feminism was cringey.
What was bad was the cross over with all the other shows
It was comical how many LGB was in the shows when combined.
Unrealistically comical, I think there's only 4 across the whole arrow/flash/supergirl universe of characters that you wouldn't say are displaying diversity
DC legends has become a joke and Supergirl has gone full on feminist
And I hear we have a lesbian Batwoman coming to Arrow soon.
Nobody has a problem with the characters but when the whole cast starts becoming overwhelming LGB you have to question it, especially when the story starts push the point.
I don't know if you read the comics books but FYI, Batwoman in the comic is a Lesbian, So they are just not creating this character out of Thin air, So I don't see an Agenda with Batwoman being a lesbian in Arrow.
After a long hiatus, Batwoman was reintroduced to DC continuity in 2006 in the seventh week of the publisher's year-long 52 weekly comic book. Reintroduced as Kate Kane, the modern Batwoman began operating in Gotham City in Batman's absence following the events of the company-wide crossover Infinite Crisis (2005). The modern Batwoman is written as being of Jewishdescent and as a lesbian in an effort by DC editorial staff to diversify its publications and better connect to modern-day readership. Described as the highest-profile gay superhero to appear in stories published by DC, Batwoman's sexual orientation drew wide media attention following her reintroduction, as well as both praise and criticism from the general public.
Yeah, good thing the only time this ever has happened in the history of comics is with Batwoman.I can see both sides of the argument/perspectives. No issue with a character being written that way, but also see people take issue with retconning a character that was not either of those two things, instead of being creative in inventing a new character.
I doubt you're ever going to see an ND game where a straight man saves his straight helpless girlfriend or wife and they end up having a family with two straight kids whose genders conform to their biological sex organs.
So do you have an issue with the kiss during wedding ceremonies?
I personally did not even mind the kissing scene because it has shown how Ellie will change because they kill her most likely but all the background shit out of these trailers makes me actual upset. Especially this racist asshole Ian Alexander. When you want to promote inclusivity and diversity and then hire such a shitbag you look like hypocrites. And I willand can not suport this studio anymoreWhat I do wonder though (concerning with the whole topic I meank is that, if ND and other devs are so dedicated to their message/agenda, why do they only shoehorn this stuff into existing and already established franchises? Why not make a new franchise that is being built from the ground up with that in mind? Because I doubt that anyone (or at least not nearly as much) people would complain. Not so dedicated after all or what?
Also found it interesting how GG dialed down Aloy‘s coolness by loads in their Frozen Wilds add on. Did also realize how „in your face“ it all was or what?
Basically this, it's not even surprisingThat is his point. She was not always that way, from OG 1956 on she was not. There was a long hiatus, and then she was brought back in 2006 and rewritten as a Jewish lesbian woman.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batwoman
I can see both sides of the argument/perspectives. No issue with a character being written that way, but also see people take issue with retconning a character that was not either of those two things, instead of being creative in inventing a new character.
But that's a public display of affection in front of an often large audience.Someone didn't get the point. A marrying couple kissing at a wedding is actually appropriate.