plasmawave
Banned
Lol.
Okay forget it.
Okay forget it.
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The Naughty Dog Agenda - RobinGaming
- Thread starter cormack12
- Start date
Barsinister
Banned
Punished Miku
Gold Member
It's easy for me to just wait and get the game on sale. I couldn't even finish TLoU, and it was one of the only games I've ever sold in my life. It had nothing to do with their obvious, heavy handed political messaging. The game is just paced so poorly, with such heavy emphasis on hand holding, forced walking segments, and self-important dialogue. It's literally a zombie game, but it's acting like it's the most ground breaking work of fiction ever written. Troy Baker's voice acting was better in inFamous, where he used his real accent instead of that forced Southern thing.
Ghost of Tsushima looks infinitely more impressive to me.
Ghost of Tsushima looks infinitely more impressive to me.
Barsinister
Banned
Would you say you are more of a "systems" player when you play games? You like the challenge of figuring out the puzzle of the game itself? Are you more of a multiplayer type? I await your response.
Punished Miku
Gold Member
I don't play a lot of multiplayer games. I focus on a select few. Monster Hunter. Soul Calibur. Splatoon.
Figuring out puzzles is certainly something I enjoy. I also like stealth games, platforming games, anything with a focus on good feeling gameplay with innovative gameplay ideas.
Barsinister
Banned
The puzzle in games I'm writing about means figuring out the mechanics of the game itself. Learning how the game works, what systems it uses to engage you as a player. I am very much like this when I play. It is my theory as to why so many games go unfinished. A game's story is not enough most times to keep someone at it if the mechanics are poor.
Oh Boy... lets go.
That is not what the video was about. have you even watched the video? It is not one thing. And I said before I had nothing about the kiss since it should the two sides of Ellie and how she changed after some event will happen.
Yes and if they ould have done it male female there would have been outrage from the other side. The problem with these kind of explanations do not work if you only use them when it fits your view and this is what happens often. People are outrage by too much realistic presentation . Then they argue it is not realistic that far cry 5 has black people and women as enemies and in the next minute they cry how Kingdome come has now diverse representation even though there was almost none and they even did historical research. All argumentation falls appart when you only use it hen it fits your own ideology.
Yes I have and it was NEVER ewww Women it was the presentation of the women and the game over all. Many people argued how this is fucking insulting to all the women who fought during this war on many sides. But Again journalism made it look like that it was a battle against women which then thanks to these articles became for many a battle against modern feminism bullsit.
Again not about women about feminism. Where does this strange logic come from which people make believe that feminism = women? Less than 18% identify even as feminist in the US in the UK it is less than 7 but the vast majority (over 80% ) is for equal rights. Against feminism does not mean against women.
There are already instances of it you can see here in Germany. Example reoving a famous poem because of sexism since they describe women as a flower. As one example.
No we can go all into detail about Germany which I already did but this thread is not for this kind of topic. You want to talk about it more. Open a thread and I will happily discuss this with you in a very honest way.
Anita lied in her videoes, she stole her material from lets players without giving credit. Anita was someone you could not criticize and if you did even in a very articulate way you are being called misogynist sockpuppet etc. She was made being a god no one ever could disagree with by media outlets. And this is why this atmosphere become so toxic. And the moment you do it like her you will get a defensive reaction. if you would have gone in a more positive way like a series of great female characters it would have been a much more positive effect.
Modern femnism has become a cult so I share the opinion of Camille Paglia Modern feminism does not strive for equality but superiority. They use fake statistics (wage gap) to stay relevant. Even your graph has been debunked a lot since the same did happen to men. It was the course of the industry not some evil men against women conspiracy.
In Norway there is also the fact that the more equal a women feels the more they go back to traditional jobs because they do not have the urge to fight against patriachy anymore.
You should watch this for example which was the reason why gender studies had recieved much less fundings in Scandinavian countries even were "suspended" for a year.
Also who again fights for more men in teacher positions? If you are a male teacher you are being already stigmatized. for example you can not be alone with a child as men. And this was also done by modern feminism to vilify men with messages like teach men not to rape etc. Again why do you think so less people are actually consider themselves a feminist today? Because of bullshit like this. Stuff about manspreading mansplaining, how men were responsible that women ride less bikes etc. I am an Anti-feminist but I am not anti equality.
That is not what the video was about. have you even watched the video? It is not one thing. And I said before I had nothing about the kiss since it should the two sides of Ellie and how she changed after some event will happen.
Yes and if they ould have done it male female there would have been outrage from the other side. The problem with these kind of explanations do not work if you only use them when it fits your view and this is what happens often. People are outrage by too much realistic presentation . Then they argue it is not realistic that far cry 5 has black people and women as enemies and in the next minute they cry how Kingdome come has now diverse representation even though there was almost none and they even did historical research. All argumentation falls appart when you only use it hen it fits your own ideology.
Yes I have and it was NEVER ewww Women it was the presentation of the women and the game over all. Many people argued how this is fucking insulting to all the women who fought during this war on many sides. But Again journalism made it look like that it was a battle against women which then thanks to these articles became for many a battle against modern feminism bullsit.
Hit was not about historical bullshitty it was about being more subtle again this looked like some bad sci fi war directed by Michael bay. And here again fails the logic I mentioned before into place. Back then the same people wrote how unethical it is to make Battlefield 1 such a over top game when so many people have suffered and that it was so disrespectful to them. Sites like Waypoint for example. But here they celebrated Battlefield 5 because of women. Please...
You mean these guys?
Yeah... totally no about the women.
Again not about women about feminism. Where does this strange logic come from which people make believe that feminism = women? Less than 18% identify even as feminist in the US in the UK it is less than 7 but the vast majority (over 80% ) is for equal rights. Against feminism does not mean against women.
She could easily beat 2 men she knew exactly when she had to step back while stupid men went for it all the time. Nadine in the game HAD no flaws she was a Mary Sue character in the game. And if you compare here to Chloe you can easily see this. Chloe was always a character who had flaws made wrong decisions etc. but she was also a very strong women.
There are already instances of it you can see here in Germany. Example reoving a famous poem because of sexism since they describe women as a flower. As one example.
No we can go all into detail about Germany which I already did but this thread is not for this kind of topic. You want to talk about it more. Open a thread and I will happily discuss this with you in a very honest way.
Anita lied in her videoes, she stole her material from lets players without giving credit. Anita was someone you could not criticize and if you did even in a very articulate way you are being called misogynist sockpuppet etc. She was made being a god no one ever could disagree with by media outlets. And this is why this atmosphere become so toxic. And the moment you do it like her you will get a defensive reaction. if you would have gone in a more positive way like a series of great female characters it would have been a much more positive effect.
Not really for Japanese people dating has become an hassle because they have places like host and hostess clubs because of the idealization of fictional characters, boyband, girlbands etc. And Japanese media also has the most diverse representation of women. For every fanservice like character you get a other one. Women can littterally be anything in Japanese media in Western media this is not possible anymore. Weak women? no way that is sexist. Shy women? According to Anita that is a bad characteristic for a women in media. And so on. And yeah there is nothing wrong with objectification of characters. be it male or female. but you also have to understand that this kind of objectification works total different between these two sexes. For men its easy some ass some boobs etc and they are satisfied for women it is more sublte and other qualifications are important. For example the "boyband" in FFXV was totally adjusted to the female audience in Japan. You had every famous trope in there women like. Animes like free have the same tropes, Kukoro no Basket was a women magnet in Japan as well and they feaatured the same set of characters. And les not forget that women in Japan right now spend a ToN of money on this stuff. Even more so than men currently do.
Again if you believe waypoint and co good for you I go and form my own opinion.
Modern femnism has become a cult so I share the opinion of Camille Paglia Modern feminism does not strive for equality but superiority. They use fake statistics (wage gap) to stay relevant. Even your graph has been debunked a lot since the same did happen to men. It was the course of the industry not some evil men against women conspiracy.
In Norway there is also the fact that the more equal a women feels the more they go back to traditional jobs because they do not have the urge to fight against patriachy anymore.
You should watch this for example which was the reason why gender studies had recieved much less fundings in Scandinavian countries even were "suspended" for a year.
Also who again fights for more men in teacher positions? If you are a male teacher you are being already stigmatized. for example you can not be alone with a child as men. And this was also done by modern feminism to vilify men with messages like teach men not to rape etc. Again why do you think so less people are actually consider themselves a feminist today? Because of bullshit like this. Stuff about manspreading mansplaining, how men were responsible that women ride less bikes etc. I am an Anti-feminist but I am not anti equality.
Barsinister
Banned
Helios
Member
The irony of this statement is so big I don't even know if you're a troll or not. But based on the rest of your post and the fact that you bolster your 9000 posts I'm going to guess you're serious
Have you stopped to consider that maybe males and females are different in a lot of ways, other than genitalia, and this can lead to them choosing a profession over another? The whole "it's a women's job because it's low paying " is also the absolute dumbest thing ever. Nursing is considered a women's job and it's, on average, incredibly well payed, meanwhile jobs that require physical effort have a piss-poor salary and women generally stay away from those.
I, for one, had no problem with the trailer. On the contrary, my impression was that it showcased the game beautifully and that the lesbian kiss scene, in particular, artfully hinted at a future conflict involving the two characters, either as allies or adversaries. I could be flat wrong, but I'd risk predicting Dina is a manipulative figure and that she will play a significant role in the story.
Having said that, I also think it's entirely reasonable to take Druckmann's words on political matters as a plausible justification to see the trailer as a pamphlet. If, for example, there'd be little more to Ellie's and Dina's relationship than that kiss, if it turned out to be inconsequential, then it would appear the scene was there just to drive home the well-meaning point that lesbian public displays of affection should indeed be regarded like heterosexual ones.
A similar principle applies to Ellie being able to take down countless trained male enemies who happen to be twice her bulk. If there's no preface, no build up to that point, one will be left wondering as to why and as to how. More generally, the encroachment of political agendas on storytelling is a disservice to the former and ultimately hurts the latter. As an example, the notion of representation, the ideologically charged idea that a fictional character should be viewed, not as a fictional individual per se but as a representative of any given real-life gender, race or sexual orientation inevitably leads to poor, on the nose characterization. As a result, writers self-censor away from awarding negative traits to, say, women or characters with a minority background for fear of having the usual accusations of sexism, racism and bigotry thrown at them. The end result is a cast of carboard walkarounds.
Now, if the trailer is a skilful prefiguration of the kind of conflicts the game will revolve around or just a pamphlet for Druckmann's views remains to be seen. Neither of these two thesis can be conclusively established without playing the final product.
it is Not about the trailer. The trailer is just a very small point for the argument presented in the 20 minutes video
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Are you really telling me you can't understand what he's getting at? He wants to know if he's debating with a sincere person or someone entrenched in feminine dogma. If you can't answer the question then you are not a sincere person. That question has nothing to do with him being homophobic and not 'even attempting to hide it', it's to do with finding out if it's worth debating with you.
Would you rather see a great character played by a straight male or a bad character played by a lesbian?
The answer here is obvious. Now, answer honestly and people here can see you're worth debating.
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Schrödinger's cat
Banned
I get the impression that not all of this threads' participants have watched the video in the OP in full.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Oh, I believe many have to be honest. Have you ever watched debates in American universities? Some of these extremist have a filter and don't appear to be able to take everything said into consideration, instead opting to only hear 'trigger' words so they can click their fingers, shout 'Nazi's out' or blow kazoos. It's the oddest thing I've ever seen.
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Schrödinger's cat
Banned
Wut.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Here's a vid of Jordan Peterson trying to talk about freedom of speech:
This is now normal behaviour towards anyone who doesn't agree with the agenda spoken of in this thread.
You don't mean smearing and insulting posts, do you? You mean points of view you vehemently disagree with, right? I suppose that's one way to win the argument, to silence your detractors.
ResetEra has the right to set its own standards. People, in turn, have the right to point out just how partial those standards are.
You don't seem especially fond of GAf. Would it be fair to say you're here on a mission?
Whos "we"? How amny of "you" are teher? Have you been elected as a representative of "you" or are you self-appointed?
Is that so? "You" don't listen to arguments which are indistinguishable from those authentic communists use?
,
Your behaviour around here seemingly displays a complete disregard for the scientific method .
If only you'd muster the intelectual honesty and freedom to turn the same analysis to your camp, a camp whose radical members disdain rationality, critical thinking and free enquiry and then celebrate the scorning effusively.
You don't. You're a political scientist - your words - who apparently studies a subject without having to approach it and who thinks it is not worth discussing. No less..
That does strike me as intellectually honest. It really, really does.
I can barely wait for your answer as to why you're an active NeoGAF member.
Journalist is best when it focuses on its mission, which is to report reality. The reason journalism has and is losing credibility and popularity is closely tied, not to it lacking conviction, but lacking facts.
The concept of representation is fraudulent.
The onus is on you. This is how philosophy works. You make the assertion that the concept of representation aptly describes reality. You are thus burdened with the obligation to provide evidence that that's the case. You do not just get to assume and assert representation as an operative concept in art is real and then expect everyone else to follow merrily and acritically. .
It's a well-known fact the SJW bandwagon is occupied with mature, employed adults in their forties and who enjoy civil rational debate.
Thunderf00t dismantled Sarkeesians 's so-called arguments, one by one.
The quality of the writing by those who have explicitly taken on board Anita's perspective is downright terrible, that's for sure.
Reality is what it is and the past is what it was. Naturally, changing the past to retrofit today's standards does raise some concerns as to what the motivations are. Was there a legitimate creative decision or just caving down to appease the radical Left?
Let's see how intelectual honest a self-proclaimed political scientist can be. The concern about Historical accuracy is a, quote, "bullshit point" because allegedly individual X,Y and Z never complained about it in the past, so no one can ever invoke it.
Yes, this seems entirely reasonable and logical. It really does.
One of the problems, but by no means the only one, is that which you deem cheap is contingent upon a worldview that treats sex as inherently wrong. It deems fictional women or men showing skin out of their own volition as intrinsically reproachable and always reproachable. Evidently, you won't likely ever admit it, but that's the logical corollary of your statement on the matter.
You have yet to substantiate the case that a fictional character in a work of fiction should be viewed not as an fictional individual created for specific storytelling purposes but should instead be analysed and gauged as a representative of certain real-life gender, race or sexual orientation so-deemed homogenous groups. You can't make a rational case for that proposition and it's why you haven't.
I don't accept the terms in which you're trying to frame this. Until you establish that's the case via a rational argument, I don't accept that sexualizing humans in a piece of fiction is inherently and always wrong and I don't accept that whitch you describe as sexualization is what's happening in those cases. Don't act as though your assumptions are self-evident. People who routinely engage in philosophical enquiry know that's not how proper Philosophy works.
This is your unsupported claim.
.
What scientific studies are you quoting in support of this position of yours, again?
Hopefully, devs know what separates a work of fiction from a manifesto. They are bright enough as to be able to distinguish, say, depicting racism in a fictional setting, from advocating for it in real life. ,
Absurd statement. Please brush on the key difference of correlation and causation.
Feminsim has many starnds which compete among themselves and have different points of view on critical matters. If you mean intersectional third-wave feminism then I'd say that, for the most part, it's a political project by the radical left which is inherently authoritarian, inherently anti-democratic and inherently anti-scientific and quite often misandrous.
That's certainly your contention, which you have yet to establish. Thankfully, Jordan Peterson, to name just one individual in recent years, has helped to expose the point for the folly that it is.
Schrödinger's cat
Banned
It may be standard behaviour. It may even be common behaviour.
That is not normal behaviour.
InterMusketeer
Member
Why would anyone even attempt to reply to or engage with you if you're gonna sit on your high horse acting like everyone else's posts are trash and their opinions don't matter? The fuck are you even doing on a forum then? Honestly it's mind-boggling you can just post stuff like that and think there's any kind of honest debate still possible, as evidenced by the life story you typed down in the rest of your post.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Why are you so mad?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Come on, don't do this. There is a 'multi-quote' option there as a tool to not have antagonizing 'hot-takes'. At least finish their entire exchange before providing nothing of quality.
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Or some of us have and thinks the guy is a little ridiculous in his assumptions. And is it possible that the guy in the OP's video is the one with the agenda himself?
Come on, don't do this. There is a 'multi-quote' option there as a tool to not have antagonizing 'hot-takes'. At least finish their entire exchange before providing nothing of quality.
It's just odd to see someone so upset, while trying to make the other person look like they care too much about fictional characters. This is clearly the new culture war of our society. There's no surprise why the LGBT community still feels the way they do. Because if you give someone like Ellie the stage to be herself in all her ways, it turns into this thread with the video in the OP's post. People still feel a certain way about queer folk and it's crazy.
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Then why do you even try to argue about this? Many people already have said that this is about the Last of US 2 trailer which it is not. The Last o US 2 trailer is just a very small fraction of his argumentation. So why do you try to argue if you or others do not even know what they are arguing against?
Robingaming is a HUGE fan of Naughty Dog. They were it who brought him on the map as well. And he also says that he will buy the game and it will probably be a great game but he also has this feeling and fear about this agenda which he reasonable discusses. So if you can not give tis person 20 minutes of your life why are you even in here?
Also the LGBT community who is this ? ffeminist who are LGBT? Or are you talking for all of these people because if you do boy I have bad news for you.
Schrödinger's cat
Banned
One of the main reasons I was given this impression is that so much of the back-and-forth of this discussion is about the one item that everyone knows about (the E3 trailer) in isolation.
Some of the other items presented in that video were new information to me and have not been addressed in this discussion at all.
Specifically the bigotted remarks on social media of hand-picked staff that are contributing to Naughty Dog's product.
When taken as a whole, the factual information presented in the video contributes to something I feel is a robust argument.
It's not free of assumption of course. The author of the video isn't his subject, so is going to have to make some assumptions. This isn't especially unreasonable.
It's not impossible.
But I'd expect to see as much evidence and transparency put forward for that counter-argument as the one provided in the original video.
Without a proper argument that stance is merely a dismissal.
Disclosure:
I've enjoyed all the Naughty Dog games I've played, which is pretty much everything from PS2 era onwards. I'd consider myself a fan of their output and argue they consistently make fun, engaging games that set new ground. I watched the OP video out of curiosity. Assuming the evidence presented hasn't been fabricated, I empathise with their point of view. It isn't likely to affect whether I purchase TLOU2 or not, but it has broadened my view of Naughty Dog.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I never once got the impression that person was 'so upset'. I saw someone who stood their ground, refused to play the 'label game', and articulated their stance very well. What I do find ironic, having read this whole thread and not participated until now, is how the 'grasping at straws' one(s) want to apply labels to people in hopes to stifle the discourse and lean it to their favor when their 'backs are against the wall' from not being genuine in their retorts. In fact, he was playful the entire time, and complimentary (albeit backhanded but still handled with more tact than the label game).
The dude straight up intellectually dismantled the person he was having an exchange with on a one on one level. And the typical underlying agenda, there is that word again, with how any sort of disagreement or critique/concern with how things are being (or maybe being) handled, must make you 'anti-queer', a 'phobe' and all other internet adages those with poor debate skills like to apply.
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Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
Ridiculous. A bunch of mental midgets who's only counter argument to logic is to plug their ears and yell "LA LA LA LA LA LA".
And this is the biggest problem. People come in here and try to argue about how positive the the trailer was without even have seen the video itself. If the video was 20 minutes about this 1 minute scene in the trailer I would not even have something to argue. And call it bullshit. But it is so much more than this that I wish people would actually have to watch the video in the OP before even talking.
Barsinister
Banned
How are you? Have we ever had an exchange on this message board? I hope you are having a great day so far!!
Hey doc, it hurts when I move my arm like this. I appreciate your free psychoanalysis, I really do. How can we fix me? I wait for the day when I'm no longer angry at the gays. Or better yet, look at my posts in this topic and then make your judgement.
prag16
Banned
prag16
Banned
Understood. In fairness, while I'll admit gif posts are often low value drivebys, it was in direct response to a user that called gaf "atrocious" and claimed Era is so much better by comparison. Which is, frankly, crazy, as they're not even allowed to discuss this very topic over there. I'll keep further era commentary out of this topic; in this case I was replying to another poster bringing it up.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
Yes, this is being accounted for in social sciences. But the role this plays is far smaller than most people assume.
A much bigger role in shaping our interests play social norms and roles.
But this has been known for a long time. This is exactly what I mean by useless debate. This seminal flaw of the internet.
While in academia an argument is made, a counterargument is present, and when it has been figured out which one was correct, the other one is abandoned. Not so on the internet. Falsehoods have to be corrected over and over and over again here. They never stop to pop up. They poison all debates. They make every topic appear like there are still "two sides" to it.
Just look at conspiracy theories or climate change denial.
Whats the point of your anecdotal examples? There have been many studies done into this evaluating average pay in a profession and comparing it to the economic value of the job, as well as the perceived importance for society, finding correlation between the predominant gender of the workers of a field and how well the economic and perceived societal values translates into salary.
If they would ban points of views I disagree with like 90% of PoliEra would be banned. I'm german, I'm a social democrat. I think the American left doesn't know shit and does everything wrong.
But I think you all know very well what lead to ban on GAF formerly and what leads to ban on E
But Tweets and Interviews in connection to a lesbian still don't make it propaganda. Its still just a lesbian kiss.
Your pointless outrage doesn't have merit.
I sense that this is supposed to be whataboutism, but I can't quite tell what the actual point is.
You are right to be outraged by TLoU2, because other people are also outraged about other things?
Its always something. Men can literally be anything in any setting, but when its women it has to be historically accurate. It has to be subtle. It has to be all kinds of things. With men on the other hand, anything goes. Zombies in WW2, mech suits, corny ass stories, none of that will spark controversy. Its simply accepted. But when its women, everything is problematic.
Just read the fucking comments under the trailer. Your claim that people actually had a problem with the action is completely dishonest and you know that. Don't waste peoples time with your bullshit.
And here is what Waypoint actually had to say about BFV:
https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/art...seems-to-sand-away-the-heart-of-battlefield-1
They constructively criticize the game. Unlike you lot.
So you think its normal to have that kind of reaction to seeing women in a game?
Defending this kind of behavior is what gets people banned on Era, and I think thats fair.
This shit is toxic, it adds nothing, it ruins potential for actual meaning exchanges.
Nadine was the leader of a militia. She grew up in that militia, she is combat trained, has been her entire life. Why wouldn't she beat Nates ass. Nate is a random happygolucky treasure hunter.
Also, repeating your wrong assessment that Nadine was flawless doesn't make it true.
But again, you're holding female characters to crude standards no male character would ever be held to.
I wonder why...
Okay, this shit is funny.
So you cite a dispute about a poem and use it to support your point that universities are echo chambers.
This is how the dispute went:
https://www.dw.com/en/poem-on-berlin-college-wall-sparks-sexism-debate/a-40384180
This is the embodiment of an open debate and the exact opposite of an echo chamber.
I've been studying the AfDs rhetoric for quite some time now, I've had several talks with members of the regional (Bavaria) party leadership as well as the base.
I doubt I would heard any arguments from you that I haven't heard from them before.
They are not about that. We have an election coming up in September and they haven't even released a problem, yet this doesn't hurt them in polls. Their goal is to be unspecific and let peoples biases fill in the blanks.
Populism is defined as a "thin ideology" that invokes strong positioning through reductionist, binary messaging. Us v. them. People vs. elites. Europeans vs. "islamic invaders". But it doesn't build up a robust ideological groundwork, because that would make it much harder to appeal to people, because suddenly you'll have to communicate and defend much more.
If you think you have a great argument as to why taking in refugees is wrong, feel free to let me know. But until then I'm just going to assume that you have nothing but seem old nonsensical points others have made before.
I criticized her countless times, even here of GAF before the exodus.
You can probably still find these posts. I was never even warned for them.
I constantly criticized her methods and the structure of her arguments, although I always agreed with her general point that representation of women and minorities in video games needs to be worked on.
Demographic catastrophe on the horizon. People marrying their "waifus" in a Nintendo DS game. Censored porn. Tendency to make sexual objects look like kids.
Yeah, sound totally healthy all in all.
Waypoint literally made the point that BFV looks like a Michael Bay movie, but in a proper way.
They made your point, because you all were to busy sticking you heads up your own ass complaining about the female characters in BFV.
The wage gap is not faked.
I don't know the numbers of the US, but in Germany the general wage gap(just comparing male and female income) in 22%. If you then account for different choices of profession, pregnancies, women worse negotiating skills and basically all other factors that might play a role. You'll still end up with a 6% discrepancy that can't be accounted for, which is the actual wage gap.
We call it "bereinigter Wage Gap"
https://faktenfinder.tagesschau.de/inland/genderpaygap-103.html
You should watch this for example which was the reason why gender studies had recieved much less fundings in Scandinavian countries even were "suspended" for a year.
[/QUOTE]
Scandinavian countries are actually leading when it comes to gender equality and it leads to great results for them.
Also, the paradox you mentioned is well explained here: https://www.theatlantic.com/science...nder-equality-the-fewer-women-in-stem/553592/
Don't mix up the US with the rest of the world.
Nobody in Germany even knows what manspreading or mansplaining is.
The Tumblr and Youtube feminism is about as representative of actual Feminism as morons like Ben Shapiro or Dave Rubin are representative of actual intellectualism. Not at all.
Do you believe that we are shaped by our environment?
Do you believe that the way we portray traditional male and female roles in society and media can have an effect on our development?
Basically, if you believe that these things(basic media effects theory) are the case, then you are already half a feminist.
Because the only further step feminists take is to state that because of these circumstances we need to reflect on the things we take for granted.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
1. I watched the video. I already said that.
2. Now we playing stupid? You don't know what it means when someone says the LGBT community? We doing that now?
Dude there's probably like 175 people making TLOU2. Are we so depressed of a society that if 4 of those people says bigotted remarks or stupid remarks on Twitter, that it applies to the WHOLE company and the project that they are working on? Is this what the world is now?
He also was avoiding answering simple questions too and being "cute" with the convo. His whole starting point was that the characters are fictional and not real. Like who doesn't know that? And why is that even a topic that needs to be discussed? It's silly season when someone does that.
YEah even Neil Said he has an agenda but I guess it still does not count. HAve you watched the video?
MY point is that it only fits and is right as long it fits their political agenda. You want more fantasy? More crazyness in Women but then even argue how high heels are not realistic. Yeah like a "robot" arm is.
And yes women can almost everything but women can not. As I said modern feminism so Anita have expectation and roles a women in media should fullfill. Again shy is bad according to Anita. Have you read her bachelor theis? Youcan find a list there .
Yeah great when they review Monsterhunter and compare it to imperialism and Trumps Family. Or how they are upset that women and black people also were on the enemies side in Far Cry 5. Or how Someone like klepek has no problem with chaging a review because people went to him and said this is sexist/racist etc and I feel oppressed. Year grat work guys.
Nadine was bascially REY in the Uncharted Universe. As I said before Chloe was a well fledged character she made mistakes, she had bad day she made bad decicions etc. In Uncharted 4 it was bascially men doing the stupid and women the good. Like when Elena suddendly showed up out of NOWWHERE to save the day because Drake fucked up.
Yeah and they wanted it removed and displaced wth a poem of a women and even better a minority. I wonder why.
I already did in a nother thread lets do it there ok?
So what? If they are happy who the fuck cares. Also it goes away the other way around as well. Women are the same in Japan. They rather spend money in some host cafe than have trouble wiht real relationships. But again if they are all happy who cares?
Of course it was in a proper way they were also the same who said it was disrespectful to WW1 survivors and ancestors to make it such a spectackle. Again It is only ok if it fits their ideology.
There is a wage gap YES. but it is really small and even then women in their 20s earn now more then men do. This wage gap is a sign of the past not of the future. It has already change ddrstically it changed so much that women outclass men in Universities by over 20%.
Yes and why are modern feminist trying to change this? Even though they should know that women actually want something else? Still want to force women into STEM? Please explain this to me other than they want to stay relevant because they are fucking dying as ideology.
German people know what it means for example the Spiegel has a great feminist who uses these words on a constant basis but this is not even the topic it is about american feminism and their agenda.
I believe that men and women are different but equal bith have natural but also social advantages and disadvantages. Also No I do not believe that blue and pink toys have any influence. Why? Because marketing companies want to sell shit they do not have a hidden agenda to keep women down. They have phychological research that shows them how to sell more to different groups and demograpics, In the video they made tests with 1 day old babies and they already had these kind of preferences. Also I said before that this is not what feminism today believes in. If I am a femnist I am an old school when they had to fight for their rights. When women now have to fight with their life because they do not want to wear a fucking headscarf. This is the feminism I support not the I got sweat shamed feminism a la guardian Vogue who actually argued that women today struggle more to fight for women issues then women back then vor the right to vote. FUCK NO they do not.
It is the same argumentation that if you are against feminism you are anti women. No you are not. single people do not speak for such a wide group. Milo is also gay does Milo speak for the gay community? No he speaks for himself. jsut like everyone else. I do not speak as a man, Anita does not speak for women, a trans Blairwhite does not speak for trans people, and so on. You get it? So who is this LGBT community? Is Milo also a part of it? Is Blairwhite who is a trump supporter and who got sevral times attacked for it? Please tell me.
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JimmyJones
Banned
From the wiki...
"Grayson wrote several articles mentionining game Developer Zoe Quinn, which were published on Rock, Paper, Shotgun and Kotaku. As will be seen below, Grayson failed to disclose important information regarding his relationship with Quinn in several of those articles. "
This is what gamergate was about. Cronyism in the industry.
"Grayson failed to dislcose his relationship with Quinn and his involvement with making of Depression Quest when he wrote about those subjects for RPS on 8 January 2014. "
One of her exes then came out and posted a whole load of stuff about her sexual escapades within the industry which may or may not have been used to further her position.
Then there was all of the Alison Rapp stuff. She worked for Nintendo as a PR employee and got fired for being a literal prostitute, then people freaked out saying it was an attack against women.
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SonicSleuth
Member
Have you played Detroit: Become Human?
That's a very solid description of the abusive dad character.
plasmawave
Banned
Why would I answer a BS question? What is that supposed to prove anyways? If I said I preferred a game with a white guy with a good story over a gay character with bad story does that mean I don't want gay character as a lead in my games?
What are you trying to get at exactly?
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Dunki come one man. I know you live in Germany, but you clearly understand English well. Colloquially when someone says the "blank" community they are clearly talking about individuals within that community that agree with Thing X or Point Y. People don't use that phrase and literally mean EVERYBODY within that community. Let's be fair here.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Remember all the 'boycotting Nintendo' posts over that utter disingenuous bullshit for knighting her only because she was a woman? Good times.
And good times seeing the Switch being paraded by some of the very same people too now.
On a side note, man was that a backfire, since Ms. Rapp sure went down in flames on her own accord, dug her grave so bad over the months after, even they had to jump ship on her. Blind support of people based on political ideologies are the worst forms of fanaticism.
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llien
Member
Who, on earth, have said all interests (regardless of gender, not sure why you had to pick up one) are purely biological and there is no cultural influence, whoareyoutalkingtoo.gif...
It's not all, but it's significant and seen across dozens of cultures, making "cultural" explanation so weak. Conclusion: NON CULTURAL GENDER DIFFERENCES VERY LIKELY EXIST.
Not only that, but gender gaps get bigger in Scandinavian countries, widely accepted as "more gender equal" Conclusion?
It's way to easy to misuse "harmful to other people" to shut down unwanted opinion.
The logical argument always does have its merit, including the atrocious one you have cited, which has actually been applied in the past.
We refuse to do it for other, I thought rather apparent reasons: we are not ready to pay this insane price for the benefit it brings.
Japan has record low crime rate (murders) as well as record low sex crime rate, which conflicts the "unhealthy relationship to sexuality" statement to a point forcing some to counter stats with anecdotal evidence.
Dunkirk (the movie) being bashed for not having female characters, how could that have happened?
The problem here is that you are trying to cherry pick evidence to support your position, instead of trying to figure what is going on.
There were plenty of women in tech? Great, but why was it that readers of computer magazines where overwhelmingly (98%-ish) males even back then? Why has gender gap in Scandinavian countries grown, instead of shrinking?
Or does that picture prove, please? What does it show, at its face value, that in 1984 men in tech suddenly started harassing women?
It is weak even by "let's pretend correlation shows causation" standards, so widely accepted in the camp you seem to represent.
Tell us more about that please.
Would you mind briefly mentioning the evidence, just to be aligned on it. I kept asking which criteria the West (commie here) chose to compare groups (and why) but never got a satisfying answer (mostly no answer at all, and that was pre-showergate)
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This is not the way people use it alot these days. But sure if you beleive this than I guess I have to apologize for the post before. Sorry.
Helios
Member
If those 4 people are in the lead than they can probably steer off a project in the direction they want. It obviously doesn't apply to everyone working but your average "code monkey" (even though I hate that term) isn't going to make decisions for the game.
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GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
NO, it shows you're not afraid to answer a question fairly. It's got nothing to do with not wanting a gay character as a lead, it's about finding your character and it's wanting.
Would you sooner have a good gay character then a bad straight character?
Answer that question instead ... I'm absolutely certain that won't cause you any problems whatsoever.
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
But in this instance they weren't leads so.......that's what confused me when my man talked about it in the video. It was hella confusing like we having Think Pieces now over what a random person that works for a company says and then acting like it's the thoughts of the whole company?
Tell that to the Hat in time devs which game was ignored by Journalists" since it features 3 line from Johntron. Tell that to the subnautica dev. and so on. Normally one is enough with NAughtydog this guy was even handpicked. Or biggest example Kingdom Come deliverence
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Jon Neu
Banned
I have visited Resetera only once, and what I find was exactly the same that you could fin in Old Gaf: dictatorship of the SJW hivemind.
I'm sure giving your political positions you could easily indulge in posting in Old Gaf or Resetera now without a problem, you are not going to get censored because you have the opinions that align with the hivemind.
I much prefer this Gaf now in which there aren't people banned for not being SJW, basically. I understand that you hate that some people now can question your scale of values without being dogpilled, humilliated and banned, but this forum is far better for open discussion now.
You mean these guys?
Yeah... totally no about the women.
I found this incredibly ironic. You post basically a lot of people complaining about SJW and feminism, and then you basically equate SJW & Feminism with women, so everybody who criticizes them it's basically criticizing women because you say so of out your own ass.
Sorry dude, but feminism isn't women. I love women and feminism is cancer. I understand you are accustomed to have people banned for being "misogynists" after they dare to criticize feminism, but that doesn't happen here anymore.
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
To keep it real, I have no idea what you are talking about with these examples.
Redshirt
Banned
I'm not sure what you're talking about at this point. Here's your original post:
I don't agree with it. Period. Beyond that, it's Friday, and I don't have time to belabor this. So, peace.