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[Papa]

Yes because companies never ever do things that are unethical or illegal in order to increase profit....

You have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. My wife is a Claims Manager for a major insurer in Australia. This is where I’m getting my info from; you’re apparently getting yours from your ass.

 

[makaveli60]

The insurance company will be in for a world of hurt if they turn down future claims from this guy or anyone else. We're supposed to accept that gender is fluid. If someone who normally identifies as a man says they are a woman whenever they drive, then the insurance company has no right to say otherwise. If there is no way to qualify gender and there are no biological markers to determine gender, then a person's gender (under Canadian law) is whatever they say it is. It can change at any time, and there is no limit to how often it can change.

Under Bill C-16 (which passed last year), it's considered a violation of a person's human rights to deny their gender identity. Insurance companies are allowed to discriminate by gender. (That's why they're legally allowed to charge men more.) They cannot legally distinguish between trans women and women, however. The insurance company has no way to test the legitimacy of a person's gender identity.

This is going to be a shit show for a while and I suspect a lot of lawyers are going to make a lot of money. In the end, the insurance companies are simply going to eliminate gender-based pricing tiers altogether. There's no way around it.

Whenever I read or see things like this I'm wondering if this really what humanity is in 2018 or am I just in a bizarre movie.

 

[Nobody_Important]

You have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. My wife is a Claims Manager for a major insurer in Australia. This is where I’m getting my info from; you’re apparently getting yours from your ass.

If insurance companies in the US were legally forced to readjust their rates do you believe that they would adjust them to be fair to the consumer or do you think they would maximize profit?

 

[gunslikewhoa]

I am just in awe that women have lower rates. Have insurance companies seen women drive???

I imagine it's because they drive less on average.

 

[gunslikewhoa]

If insurance companies in the US were legally forced to readjust their rates do you believe that they would adjust them to be fair to the consumer or do you think they would maximize profit?

Neither, because the government would be deciding?

 

[Papa]

I also find the story funny like the OP, but I also agree with @Forthefuture in terms of the thread's intent.

This isn't the first time, nor will it be the last, that an individual might do something like check a box to game the system, with very little investment in the broader implications of that box check. However, these tend to limited to stories of bold individuals rather than a broad social movement.

And I think that's what Forthefuture was really getting to. There are people who have been trying to check the other box for most of their lives, but certain stringent social forces refuse to allow it. And nothing about that is funny.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Neither, because the government would be deciding?

You mean the same government that is made up of people who are endorsed and paid by lobbyists for those very same companies?

 

[Papa]

I imagine it's because they drive less on average.

Surely it would be normalised to accidents per driving hour.

 

[Liberty4all]

What does gender being binary or not have to do with this? Are you perhaps thinking of social construct? Either way, I'd think that it just comes down to whether this is a discriminator that is important to you and this can or cannot be the case, independent of if it is a social construct or not. Things like being an aristocrate are undeniably nothing but a social construct, yet millions care about that. If you truly mean binary, well, being dead or alive is a binary construct / concept as well and a hell of a lot of people care about being one but not the other.

Yeah i meant social construct.

Hey are you back from the Other Place? I heard you got banned in the Female Honeypot thread.

 

[Papa]

If insurance companies in the US were legally forced to readjust their rates do you believe that they would adjust them to be fair to the consumer or do you think they would maximize profit?

Your grasp of how the world functions is so feeble I don’t want to waste anymore time on you.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Your grasp of how the world functions is so feeble I don’t want to waste anymore time on you.

Yeah okay lol

 

[JORMBO]

What is your conclusion OP?

My conclusion is that this seems easy to abuse. I thought people went through a lot of therapy and doctors meetings before making it official that transitioning was the best thing for them. This guy just called his doctor, had a note written and it was a done deal. This guy is from Canada so maybe it is different there then the US?

 

[michaelius]

People ingenuity will always make a mockery of badly thought out legislation without any safeguards.

Gender change should be possible for people who want and need it but only if it's supported by proper medical documentation.

 

[Yoshi]

Yeah i meant social construct.

Hey are you back from the Other Place? I heard you got banned in the Female Honeypot thread.

I have been banned in Resetera, yes, so my postings that I split between the two forums will now mostly go here (some will just not happen, because of some discussions only being on one forum). I have never really be gone, though. I do hope this forum will get a bit more balanced, politically, when some of the unbannings happen though. Currently it is very conservative / right leaning, which can quickly feel less than inclusive.

 

[Dunki]

If insurance companies in the US were legally forced to readjust their rates do you believe that they would adjust them to be fair to the consumer or do you think they would maximize profit?

They would charge women as much as men yes but why is this a problem again? It is called equality.

I have been banned in Resetera, yes, so my postings that I split between the two forums will now mostly go here (some will just not happen, because of some discussions only being on one forum). I have never really be gone, though. I do hope this forum will get a bit more balanced, politically, when some of the unbannings happen though. Currently it is very conservative / right leaning, which can quickly feel less than inclusive.

But this is also because the more left leaning side does not like to argue anymore. And does not accept any other opinions. On the internet for sure I can say that the conservative site is willing to argue and debate things while the left leaning site rather just wants to villify and silence the other side.

 

[Lady Bird]

So because a handful of shitbags abuse the system that means we should get rid of the system entirely?


What kind of logic is that?

It means the system is not perfect, and that it should be polished.

In my country, our president recently blocked a similar gender change law from seeing the light of day due to how easy it would be to abuse it.

 

[Nobody_Important]

But this is also because the more left leaning side does not like to argue anymore. And does not accept any other opinions. On the internet for sure I can say that the conservative site is willing to argue and debate things while the left leaning site rather just wants to villify and silence the other side.

That would be because "conservative" sites are willing to tolerate things like racism, homophobia and transphobia. None of which are opinions and none of which should be tolerated at any level whatsoever in a civilized society. The world has moved on from such archaic and disgusting beliefs. The people who hold them should either renounce them or be left behind.

 

[Dunki]

That would be because "conservative" sites are willing to tolerate things like racism, homophobia and transphobia. None of which are opinions and none of which should be tolerated at any level whatsoever in a civilized society. The world has moved on from such archaic and disgusting beliefs. The people who hold them should either renounce them or be left behind.

first of all do you know how easy it is to shout racism homophobia/transphobia etc? Just one example on the other forum you would be a transophob for not wanting to date a trans person. The left turns everything they do not agree with in these accusations no matter what. HEll you would be banend by the "extreme" left for saying white privilege does not exist.

This thread alone would not be able to exist because of sexism etc. They make it way too easy to dismiss debates.

PS: Poplar speech NEVER needss protection. It is the unpopular one that needs protection even if you do not agree with it. This is what a free world and democracy has to endure. And it is in your hands to while accept these views to make sure that they are not the general opinion. Which you do not realize with trying to silence these kind of people. Quite the opposite.

 

[Nobody_Important]

first of all do you know how easy it is to shout racism homophobia/transphobia etc? .

I am talking about actual racism, transphobia and homophobia. I don't give a shit about false claims of either.

 

[Yoshi]

But this is also because the more left leaning side does not like to argue anymore. And does not accept any other opinions. On the internet for sure I can say that the conservative site is willing to argue and debate things while the left leaning site rather just wants to villify and silence the other side.

This is a pretty unfair generalisation. Outside of full-on racism and sexism I am not in favour of all too strict moderation and am pretty mad about arguments of the type "this is dogwhistling" or unbased accusations of "arguing in bad faith" or such. I am pretty sure there are a lot of left-leaning persons that share this general view. In fact, contrary to what is often seen posted here, there are Resetera mods that I think can tolerate a pretty wide range of opinions and, though stricter than I would be, argue their bannings pretty well, e.g. Aiii or Finale Fireworker left a good impression on me in that regard.

 

[off duty ninja]

So instead of honest discussion, he started with the guise of a "hilarious" story. Dont blame me for not tolerating such passive agrassive BS.

You don’t even know what honest discussion is. I haven’t seen a single post from you on this board with anything but snarky, condescending bullshit. It’s like you don’t even want to have a discussion.

 

[Papa]

That would be because "conservative" sites are willing to tolerate things like racism, homophobia and transphobia. None of which are opinions and none of which should be tolerated at any level whatsoever in a civilized society. The world has moved on from such archaic and disgusting beliefs. The people who hold them should either renounce them or be left behind.

Would you date a trans person?

 

[Spheyr]

So because a handful of shitbags abuse the system that means we should get rid of the system entirely?


What kind of logic is that?

I'm glad you're finally coming out as pro gun

 

[Nobody_Important]

Would you date a trans person?

If I found them engaging and had similar interests yes. I would treat them like anyone else.



Would you?

 

[off duty ninja]

I also find the story funny like the OP, but I also agree with @Forthefuture in terms of the thread's intent.

This isn't the first time, nor will it be the last, that an individual might do something like check a box to game the system, with very little investment in the broader implications of that box check. However, these tend to limited to stories of bold individuals rather than a broad social movement.

And I think that's what Forthefuture was really getting to. There are people who have been trying to check the other box for most of their lives, but certain stringent social forces refuse to allow it. And nothing about that is funny.

I have a very simple solution that apparently none of the folks trying to dismiss that have thought of. Maybe letting anybody without any proof claim whatever gender they want isn’t actually a good idea. Maybe people should have to see a doctor or have begun transitioning or some other measurable.

As long as gender is just a social construct though you have no place to tell anyone else how they feel. This dude probably just feels like a woman when he drives.

 

[Papa]

If I found them engaging and had similar interests yes. I would treat them like anyone else.

Do you think it’s transphobic to not want to date a trans person?

 

[Nobody_Important]

Do you think it’s transphobic to not want to date a trans person?

Not at all. I do find it Transphobic however to not recognize the chosen gender of a transgender person. You may not personally find them attractive etc etc but you are required to respect and acknowledge their choice in my opinion. \


Same goes for same sex marriages and other similar LGBTQ issues. You don't have to agree with it, but you do have to accept and acknowledge it.

 

[Papa]

Not at all. I do find it Transphobic however to not recognize the chosen gender of a transgender person. You may not personally find them attractive etc etc but you are required to respect and acknowledge their choice in my opinion.

Which genders do you consider legitimate?

 

[Spheyr]

Not at all. I do find it Transphobic however to not recognize the chosen gender of a transgender person. You may not personally find them attractive etc etc but you are required to respect and acknowledge their choice in my opinion. \


Same goes for same sex marriages and other similar LGBTQ issues. You don't have to agree with it, but you do have to accept and acknowledge it.

No you don't.

 

[off duty ninja]

That would be because "conservative" sites are willing to tolerate things like racism, homophobia and transphobia. None of which are opinions and none of which should be tolerated at any level whatsoever in a civilized society. The world has moved on from such archaic and disgusting beliefs. The people who hold them should either renounce them or be left behind.

Wait, you just said opinions aren’t opinions? Why does the left continually try to redefine words? Even if someone IS being racist, homophobic, transphobic, cisphobic, heterophobic, in fact any kind of phobic. Those are all most certainly opinions.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Wait, you just said opinions aren’t opinions?

Racism, Transphobia, and Homophobia are not opinions. In order for something to be an opinion it has to have merit, value and deserve to be considered. None of those have that. None of those things deserve the slightest consideration.


Unless you wish to tell me that Racism, Transphobia, Homophobia and similar bigoted beliefs deserve a place in todays society lol Which by all means do tell me of their merits. I am all ears.

No you don't.

You do actually if you wish to partake in modern society. The fact that people are regularly fired and shunned for such behavior proves that.


Unless you wanna argue that Transphobia is not punished in todays political climate. In which case I would love the laugh lol

 

[Basoes]

Racism, Transphobia, and Homophobia are not opinions. In order for something to be an opinion it has to have merit, value and deserve to be considered. None of those have that. None of those things deserve the slightest consideration.


Unless you wish to tell me that Racism, Transphobia, Homophobia and similar bigoted beliefs deserve a place in todays society lol Which by all means do tell me of their merits. I am all ears.

I don't believe the mole people that live underground deserve rights

 

[poppabk]

I would assume its rather uncommon otherwise we would hear more about it, but like I said even if its severely uncommon it will still be used as ammunition by people who disagree with the concept of gender identity.


On the surface it seems like a harmless act, but its damage will be subtle and severe if more and more people start to abuse the concept.

I think that is the main point. If we don't figure this out it will become a problem. Think 'support animals' but with much more significant ramifications.

 

[off duty ninja]

Racism, Transphobia, and Homophobia are not opinions. In order for something to be an opinion it has to have merit, value and deserve to be considered. None of those have that. None of those things deserve the slightest consideration.


Unless you wish to tell me that Racism, Transphobia, Homophobia and similar bigoted beliefs deserve a place in todays society lol Which by all means do tell me of their merits. I am all ears.

Aww, thanks for filling me in on the leftist definition of opinion. In reality an opinion is simply a thought one has that isn’t necessarily based on facts or direct knowledge. It has nothing to do with merit.

Besides, if it is based on merit than I’d say you don’t have many valid opinions either. Who says what has merit again? Somebody with an opinion?

 

[Nobody_Important]

Aww, thanks for filling me in on the leftist definition of opinion. In reality an opinion is simply a thought one has that isn’t necessarily based on facts or direct knowledge. It has nothing to do with merit.

Besides, if it’s based on merit than I’d say you don’t have many valid opinions either. Who says what has merit again? Somebody with an opinion?

If thats your definition of an opinion then thats fine, but its not mine. Any person who wants to come to me and try to explain how their bigotry is valid because its their "opinion" is immediately disregarded. I frankly don't care why you justify your racism or similar thoughts.

 

[off duty ninja]

If thats your definition of an opinion then thats fine, but its not mine. Any person who wants to come to me and try to explain how their bigotry is valid because its their "opinion" is immediately disregarded. I frankly don't care why you justify your racism or similar thoughts.

Who said you had to care about people’s opinions. I disregard actual opinions all the time. Why do you need to redefine the word to try and better suit your argument?

 

[Darkking2001]

could it be you both have different opinions on opinions wow.....so deep

Speaking of which you could probably get insurances to base off peoples quality of driving...so people who don't suck at driving can pay less and people who do pay more

 

[michaelius]

Do you think it’s transphobic to not want to date a trans person?

If you end goal is marriage and having children then it would be impossible in such case. So for me no.

 

[Arkos]

I think that what you mean is that those opinions (the phobias you mentioned) aren’t valid ones and therefore don’t deserve to be considered. Factually those “opinions” (that one thing is superior to another, that two things don’t deserve equal treatment under the law, etc) have largely if not wholly been disproven and therefore, while they might be “opinions,” it’s like saying that the sky is green is an opinion. It’s not, but I guess you can say that and it’s technically an “opinion,” but it’s not.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Who said you had to care about people’s opinions. I disregard actual opinions all the time. Why do you need to redefine the word to try and better suit your argument?

Because labeling things like Racism, Transphobia and Homophobia as "opinions" you are giving off the illusion that they have merit like any other opinion and therefore deserve to be listened to with respect. But that isn't the case.

Shitty opinion =/= Not an opinion to me let me make that clear. I will sit and listen to shitty opinions all day long, but I will not tolerate bigotry.



There is no case to be made that any of that should be tolerated and treated the same as a regular opinion or thought. Unless you believe that they can. In which case please explain to me why racism and other bigoted viewpoints should be treated with respect like other viewpoints.

 

[Darkking2001]

Their merit is to knock them down with logic and reason to show hopefuls the right path...just a though

 

[off duty ninja]

could it be you both have different opinions on opinions wow.....so deep

Speaking of which you could probably get insurances to base off peoples quality of driving...so people who don't suck at driving can pay less and people who do pay more

Except that by his definition I can state that his opinion isn’t actually an opinion because I see no merit in it. So really only I am having a different opinion. He is just wrong due to a lack of merit.

 

[Arkos]

 

[off duty ninja]

Because labeling things like Racism, Transphobia and Homophobia as "opinions" you are giving off the illusion that they have merit like any other opinion and therefore deserve to be listened to with respect. But that isn't the case.

Shitty opinion =/= Not an opinion to me let me make that clear. I will sit and listen to shitty opinions all day long, but I will not tolerate bigotry.



There is no case to be made that any of that should be tolerated and treated the same as a regular opinion or thought. Unless you believe that they can. In which case please explain to me why racism and other bigoted viewpoints should be treated with respect like other viewpoints.

I don’t want to further derail this thread but I will state once again that it is only you projecting this idea of merit onto opinions so that you can dismiss them.

I’m telling you that we have the power to dismiss them without trying to redefine words.

I don’t think opinions of any kind automatically deserve respect. That is what critical thinking is for.

I’m going to go enjoy this beautiful day here in Oregon now so you don’t need to bother replying.

 

[Darkking2001]

That is okay cause its opinions....Shrugs

People interpret things differently all the time

 

[Ulysses 31]

What is your conclusion OP?

Don't know if OP reaches the same conclusions but mine align with this the ones in the video:


A lot of these inclusivity efforts end up taking away protections of people.

 

[Darkking2001]

Oh cool a right wing outrage youtube channel....boy can't wait for some opin...i mean facts on the subject

 

[Vicetrailia]

Don't drive red cars either.

 

[Dunki]

This is a pretty unfair generalisation. Outside of full-on racism and sexism I am not in favour of all too strict moderation and am pretty mad about arguments of the type "this is dogwhistling" or unbased accusations of "arguing in bad faith" or such. I am pretty sure there are a lot of left-leaning persons that share this general view. In fact, contrary to what is often seen posted here, there are Resetera mods that I think can tolerate a pretty wide range of opinions and, though stricter than I would be, argue their bannings pretty well, e.g. Aiii or Finale Fireworker left a good impression on me in that regard.

In Terms of the other forum I do not think it is unfair. You can basically see this is every trhread with bans. And I agree with you that there are a lot of left viewing people even tehre who are moderate but they are too scared to mentions and getting involved because of the moderation. You jsut have to say that you are a women or minority there and then you can accuse everyone who then gets banned. Newest example the Valkyria Chronicles 4 thread. But this goes more offtopic now so maybe we should move this to the resetera thread.

 

[iconmaster]

So one guy tries to scam the system so we must be suspicious of the transitioning individuals?

Rather, the fact that you and I instantly call this a scam is because we intuitively know gender is an immutable, essential characteristic. Children intuit this easily, but we spend tremendous effort talking ourselves out of it. These extreme examples are exactly the reductio ad absurdum needed to cure our advanced adult wisdom.