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[Yoshi]

As I understand it you're arguing that they are ideologically consistent, but this wasn't the case for me. There was a big thread about Sam Harris/Murray/Vox on era in which I defended Harris extensively. Then in another thread a few weeks later someone made a comment in another thread about Harris being racist and I made a one off post arguing he isn't in the exact same way, got hit with a 1 week ban for racism. I emailed the mods, pointed out I had made this exact argument in much greater depth in another thread with not even a warning. They essentially said too bad, increased my ban length to two weeks at which point I requested a permanent ban. The mod team is clearly shifting more left as time goes on, is less transparent in what their banning policy actually means in regards to what is racist or what is phobic or what gets a warning or what gets a ban, and even doubles down on their mistakes when they are pointed out as they did with me. If you're interested my write up of the whole event is listed earlier in this thread I think, in which I include the email exchange. The eggshells are everywhere and the policy is murky as a swamp.

Edit: You can read about my situation here:

I agree that the ban you received is harsh, but my impression is that for Resetera moderators, the exact words chosen are less important than the feelings they might associate with what you have said - which of course makes it very difficult to argue social issues, because even carefully chosen words that try to describe something as objectively as possible can be regarded as hateful. When it comes to consistency though, I would suppose it is just a matter of (1) Maybe mods not having seen your previous posting before (2) due to the emotional nature of moderation, some small details in how you worded it (and additionally, how often you have talked about it at that point vs. the later) could have been at play. I do not think this is a sufficient argument for inconsistency of moderation, but it is of course not a demonstration of impartial, level-headed moderation either.

 

[JordanN]

No but the "Car crash" is over, now it's just people rubber necking on the highway while the tow truck is winching the wrecked cars.

It's like watching a pile up.

First there was a car crash. Then a Bus flew in and smashed from behind it. Then a motorcyclist who stops by to help the victims is crushed by a falling airplane.

 

[JimmyRustler]

Yeah I was reading that earlier. They are all happy that Ciri is going to be Non White. There were a few saying it didn’t quite make sense. One was banned for some weird false equivalence saying if it was a reversed situation people would be up in arms.

Just peaked into the thread and man... Can someone explain to me why this forced diversity is supposed to be good? And how? I mean, I see this phrase being thrown around so much yet I do not understand where this comes from. Does anyone have receipts?

 

[Redneckerz]

No but the "Car crash" is over, now it's just people rubber necking on the highway while the tow truck is winching the wrecked cars.

I like to think the whole story is more like a continous game of the old DOS title Destruction Derby.

Fantomena got banned again? Jebus.

Not here atleast?

Just peaked into the thread and man... Can someone explain to me why this forced diversity is supposed to be good? And how? I mean, I see this phrase being thrown around so much yet I do not understand where this comes from. Does anyone have receipts?

Its just a case for equality. If 50% is white, then 50% is black so its diverse.

What nobody that argues this case seems to get is that forced diversity says nothing about someone's capabilities: People are literally just selected on the basis of their colour or their gender. The Names are particularly hellbent on this, wanting to have multiple trans people in their roster because of diversity. They don't select new members based on how capable they are as a mod or existing members are so reverred because they are so good at what they do, they are purely and simply selected for having a different gender/being a minority/a different POC.

Its not about skillset, its about being a different gender/minority/POC.

 

[Yoshi]

Its not about skillset, its about being a different gender/minority/POC.

I think the rationale is that moderation as intended on Resetera is not primarily a skill-issue, but a perspective issue. Having certain backgrounds enables certain perspectives, which they want represented in the moderation. A stronger focus on communication skills would be helpful of course, in preventing difficult situations as have been cited here the last few weeks and I feel it would also make for a better moderation in itself. But I have no ideas how well-versed the site owner is in judging communication skillsand whether the aduience of Resetera is big enough to ensure all four, the perspective of even rather small minority groups such as transgender people, ideological fitting, the time to do all the moderation and good communication skills.

 

[JORMBO]

Fantomena got banned again? Jebus.

Looks like he got sniped by Excelsiorlef.

 

[Redneckerz]

I think the rationale is that moderation as intended on Resetera is not primarily a skill-issue, but a perspective issue. Having certain backgrounds enables certain perspectives, which they want represented in the moderation.

Wanting to have certain perspectives has shown time and time again that it does not contribute to ensuring a consistent level of quality moderation over there. Heck, this whole thread is the result of ERA's willingness to favor perspectives over quality. Hence why you get the most entertaining chucklefuck bans which are obviously the result of having a different perspective than the majority out there.

The issue wouldn't be there if said minority or said user with a different perspective/background enables fair and reasonably objective moderation. What you are seeing now, why Mister Metokur made a video of it, and most sites just shun the site for, is that such users aren't fair and reasonably objective. On the contrary, these members of The Names are set to push their perspective as the norm, and where other perspectives are met by a banhammer. That to me suggests unfair and unobjective moderation, thus you aren't skilled for the job. And then having a different perspective is completely meaningless.

Because why have someone with a different perspective be onboard when said someone is near-universally shit at what such a user is supposed to do?

A stronger focus on communication skills would be helpful of course, in preventing difficult situations as have been cited here the last few weeks and I feel it would also make for a better moderation in itself.

I think its commendable that you uphold the belief that The Names would be recipient to new communication skills. Just look at last week's Entertainment thing. Sure, they changed it within 5 hours, but that was before they worked on it for much longer and categorically ignored every single protest and foresight by the community that such a change was unwanted, let alone that some members of The Names jumped the shark and got their jimmies rustled over it.

That whole fiasco to me highlights that communication isn't the problem, because they don't listen in the first place.

But I have no ideas how well-versed the site owner is in judging communication skillsand whether the aduience of Resetera is big enough to ensure all four, the perspective of even rather small minority groups such as transgender people, ideological fitting, the time to do all the moderation and good communication skills.

I have read this bit thrice now and i give up, i have literally no idea what you are trying to convey here. Which considering the general point of your post, is a tad ironic, and i am sure you can agree with that.

 

[JimmyRustler]

Its just a case for equality. If 50% is white, then 50% is black so its diverse.

What nobody that argues this case seems to get is that forced diversity says nothing about someone's capabilities: People are literally just selected on the basis of their colour or their gender. The Names are particularly hellbent on this, wanting to have multiple trans people in their roster because of diversity. They don't select new members based on how capable they are as a mod or existing members are so reverred because they are so good at what they do, they are purely and simply selected for having a different gender/being a minority/a different POC.

Its not about skillset, its about being a different gender/minority/POC.

Yes, I know. But what's really the point, the end-goal, of all this? What do people advocating this hope that it'll accomplish? This is so stupid. The only thing this accomplishes is to make the creators job more difficult. Let those folks just do what the want to do for the love of god. If they want to make an all series with an all white cast? Go ahead. If they want to make one with an all black cast? Go ahead. etc.

Making creative work with a checkbook approach is simply retarded. I cannot believe that creative people actually want to work in such an environment.

 

[darkinstinct]

Making creative work with a checkbook approach is simply retarded. I cannot believe that creative people actually want to work in such an environment.

That first sentence would've been an instaban.

 

[Redneckerz]

Yes, I know. But what's really the point, the end-goal, of all this? What do people advocating this hope that it'll accomplish? This is so stupid. The only thing this accomplishes is to make the creators job more difficult. Let those folks just do what the want to do for the love of god. If they want to make an all series with an all white cast? Go ahead. If they want to make one with an all black cast? Go ahead. etc.

Making creative work with a checkbook approach is simply retarded. I cannot believe that creative people actually want to work in such an environment.

Well its already accomplishing something - namely for example the fact that Serena Williams talks about it on tennis. Or how Scarlett Johansson was forced to leave the cast of a movie where should be playing a trans girl - She is straight, so obviously it does not make sense, right? It should be an actual trans person playing the part. But nobody is suggesting that both Johansson and the trans girl do a screentest and see who is simply better at it.

This statement right here would be banworthy on ERA because it implies that a non-trans person can be as good as an actual trans person, or that its discriminatory against actual trans people and critical of their own performance. Which isn't the case.

The point the people want to make is that it will spark a discussion everywhere. In which they have suceeded, because like i said, even Serena made a case for this global narrative, which includes Metoo, racism, Trans acceptance, and politicizing everything.

 

[Yoshi]

I have read this bit thrice now and i give up, i have literally no idea what you are trying to convey here. Which considering the general point of your post, is a tad ironic, and i am sure you can agree with that.

I don't aspire to be a moderator, so in analysis of the required or desirable traits of a moderator at Resetera, my own qualification is insignifant (I also would guess that as a white heterosexual male man with a pretty strong live-and-let-live mentality when it comes to language usage, the communicative skill would not be the primary issue here). The point of this sentence is two-fold:
1. I do not know if the site owner is in a good position to judge the communicative skills of potential moderators. I just know Cerium that well outside of the Yooka-Laylee debate.
2. I have highlighted four traits that a Resetera mod presumably ideally has:
(a) perspective of minority groups, with special emphasis on very small minority groups such as trangender
(b) ideological fitting, because a moderator needs to fit in with a certain base ideology, which means: strong supporter of inclusiveness, supporter of political restrictions and measures to increase inclusiveness such as affirmative action, having a strict view on language, with a limited leeway for humour and dissent on sensitive topics; this must go beyond the own group, so a transgender moderator with conservative views on immigration would probably not be a good ideological fit.
(c) the amount of spare time to use for the moderation job
(d) communicative skills, I think this should be understood

Noting, that these conditions together are pretty limiting and I have my doubts that, even if Cerium is a master at judging all four traits, he is able to find proper candidates that excel on all four traits. The Resetera community may be too small to offer enough candidates who check all four boxes.

 

[Boss Mog]

Please don't say "male man" unless you're talking about this:

 

[Yoshi]

Please don't say "male man" unless you're talking about this:

In fact, this mailman is looking like he is a male man, as well. Since to my understanding, male suggests the sex whereas man suggests the gender it appeared practical to me to use the combination "male man". Is it ambiguous?

 

[dionysus]

"Hello, thank you for reaching out. This is an extremely sensitive topic which has a great deal more potential to hurt other members than it has potential for valuable discussion. Our best advice is to simply avoid such topics in the future if you're uncertain about how your argument might be received. "

Moderation based upon emotional response of the reader, instead of the content of the post combined with the intent of the poster, is bad moderation policy. The poster has no control of how his words are received. Resetera mods even seem aware of how poor this justification is, because their ban reasons also often say "posting in bad faith" or "history of similar infractions" to go along with the accusation of misogyny, transphobia, etc.

Also notice the Orwellian proclamation that there is little potential for valuable discussion, as determined by that admin.

 

[Boss Mog]

In fact, this mailman is looking like he is a male man, as well. Since to my understanding, male suggests the sex whereas man suggests the gender it appeared practical to me to use the combination "male man". Is it ambiguous?

It's not ambiguous, it's redundant. Listen I understand that some men might really think that they are a woman and vice-versa but the truth is your sex determines your gender, If you have a penis and testes that produce sperm, you are a man. For the people that believe they were born in the wrong body, I genuinely feel sorry for them, but you gotta play with the hand you're dealt. Some people are morbidly obese, should everybody walk around calling them fit because they believe themselves to be normal/healthy? If I believe myself rich should stores and people just let me have what I want even though I can't really afford it? You shouldn't force everybody else to indulge your wishful thinking and try to punish them if they don't, especially if it actually goes against real science and biological facts.

 

[Yoshi]

It's not ambiguous, it's redundant. Listen I understand that some men might really think that they are a woman and vice-versa but the truth is your sex determines your gender, If you have a penis and testes that produce sperm, you are a man. For the people that believe they were born in the wrong body, I genuinely feel sorry for them, but you gotta play with the hand you're dealt. Some people are morbidly obese, should everybody walk around calling them fit because they believe themselves to be normal/healthy? If I believe myself rich should stores and people just let me have what I want even though I can't really afford it? You shouldn't force everybody else to indulge your wishful thinking and try to punish them if they don't, especially if it actually goes against real science and biological facts.

Science is discussing this issue though, the view you have given here is compatible with my intuition, but I have learnt that this is an active point of discussion among biologists and sciologist. Transgender was removed from the list of mental illnesses recently. I have also been told, on numerous occasions, here and at RE and also by personal communication, that a notion of gender that is not strictly linked to sex exists and is a biological reality.

That being as it is, I feel it is imperative in order to respect both, the scientific state of this question and the societal discourse, to use language that maps my best possible understanding of reality. It is particularly important because despite numerous attempts to understand what gender is and to gain a working intuition of it, I have been completely unable to, so I try to use the more technical terms to refer to sex and the more societal terms to refer to gender. Indeed it is also important for consistency, because I do refer to my transgender acquintance (who I would call a male woman according to above terminology) a woman, so using woman / man as sex-based classifiers would lead to awkward inconsistencies here.

In addition, for a lack of contrary knowledge, I assume I am a man.

 

[Corrik]

TotalBiscuit compared to Hitler in StarCraft commerorative charity item sale thread. Some actually called this out as insane. Kudos to them. Was surprised more bans for "supporting sexism" didn't fly.

 

[Kacho]

In fact, this mailman is looking like he is a male man, as well. Since to my understanding, male suggests the sex whereas man suggests the gender it appeared practical to me to use the combination "male man". Is it ambiguous?

 

[MrHeisenbird]

TotalBiscuit compared to Hitler in StarCraft commerorative charity item sale thread. Some actually called this out as insane. Kudos to them. Was surprised more bans for "supporting sexism" didn't fly.

Was literally about to post about this.

Last night I was watching his "WTF is..." videos and he made an argument for diversity in games - "if all we can play as are white males with a few different personalities, then we are going to get a lot if boring games."

Between that and his Twitlonger on Gamergate I just don't understand where people get their ideas about his evil nature from.

 

[Ribi]

Just peaked into the thread and man... Can someone explain to me why this forced diversity is supposed to be good? And how? I mean, I see this phrase being thrown around so much yet I do not understand where this comes from. Does anyone have receipts?

More POC make liberals happy thinking it's what all POV would want so they get off to it, and me as a POC just sit here watching the show scratching my head like "wasn't ciri white in the book and game?"

 

[prag16]

It's sad that seeing statements like this doesn't surprise me anymore in the least.

I'll make it clear to you in case you are confused; rapists, violent misogynists and active oppressors doing other harmful actions are the symptom. All men are the cause, whether you like it or not.

The entire Riot Games thread is incredible. -_-

 

[DeepEnigma]

More POC make liberals happy thinking it's what all POV would want so they get off to it, and me as a POC just sit here watching the show scratching my head like "wasn't ciri white in the book and game?"

Isn't it lovely how the far left treats us, and basically looks down on us as if we are incapable of our own thoughts and opinions?

 

[Ribi]

Isn't it lovely how the far left treats us, and basically looks down on us as if we are incapable of our own thoughts and opinions?

If you do from an opinion it better be the same one they formed or else you're part of the alt-right

 

[Redneckerz]

Shamelessly stolen, but i felt this picture highlighted nicely how often NewSpeak/dog whistles like Bark, Woof, Yikes and Oof are used. In the case of Yikes, its this:

 

[Yoshi]

Shamelessly stolen, but i felt this picture highlighted nicely how often NewSpeak/dog whistles like Bark, Woof, Yikes and Oof are used. In the case of Yikes, its this:

To be fair, site:neogaf.com "yikes" yields 37.500 results.

 

[DeepEnigma]

To be fair, site:neogaf.com "yikes" yields 37.500 results.

That is not a fair assessment considering NeoGAF has been around for over 15 years, and those very same people used to be here.

Almost one-third the results in less than a year.

 

[Yoshi]

That is not a fair assessment considering NeoGAF has been around for over 15 years, and those very same people used to be here.

Almost one-third the results in less than a year.

The social justice focus only came up in the final couple of years though.

 

[DeepEnigma]

The social justice focus only came up in the final couple of years though.

It's been going on heavy since 2012. They were all here until October of last year.

So those numbers line up pretty much perfectly with the years and how many they have on their site in less than a year.

 

[Yoshi]

It's been going on heavy since 2012. They were all here until October of last year.

So those numbers line up pretty much perfectly with the years and how many they got on their site in less than a year.

Yeah, I did not want to say that NeoGAF was much worse in terms of overusing this word, just that it was similar. However, it might actually have been more on Resetera, depending on whether all of the NeoGAF people who used this vocabulary even migrated to ResetEra. It is hard for me to judge how active ResetEra is when compared to NeoGAF, because usercount obviously is insufficient for this.

 

[Redneckerz]

To be fair, site:neogaf.com "yikes" yields 37.500 results.

Which is hardly fair since GAF and before that OPA-Ages are here 15 times longer than ERA is.

The social justice focus only came up in the final couple of years though.

This is the kind of statement that would need something to back it up.

It's been going on heavy since 2012. They were all here until October of last year.

So those numbers line up pretty much perfectly with the years and how many they got on their site in less than a year.

It could be an interesting statistic to showcase how much worse things went in a single year than it was for GAF, but really, there is a banbot, there is stats data.. if people would want to dig that kind of stuff up, then its there.

I mean, its not like i have a boner for that place.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Yeah, I did not want to say that NeoGAF was much worse in terms of overusing this word, just that it was similar. However, it might actually have been more on Resetera, depending on whether all of the NeoGAF people who used this vocabulary even migrated to ResetEra. It is hard for me to judge how active ResetEra is when compared to NeoGAF, because usercount obviously is insufficient for this.

The numbers you provided here contrasting with over there did provide a good parallel showing the mentality patterns of that ubserbase. With just one word to boot. That's pretty impressive.

 

[Mochilador]

Political correctness taken to the extreme, that's what they are doing.
People over there are aggressive and will consider you the devil himself if you don't agree 100% with them.

 

[Yoshi]

The numbers you provided here contrasting with over there did provide a good parallel showing the mentality patterns of that ubserbase. With just one word to boot. That's pretty impressive.

I am actually uncertain whether "Yikes" is only being used by social justice activists. I do no use it, but I am also not a native speaker.

This is the kind of statement that would need something to back it up.

Have a look at the banning justice thread, where Evilore is deliberately choosing a certain timespan to review the bannings. Other than that, it is of course just my impression, but for a good indicator (and I hope no one making a big fuzz about this reads this now), take a look at the postings starting here:
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/soni...-is-incredible.1060784/page-22#post-195780809
Imagine the Sonic account making this posting a year later. Hell would have broken loose (in fact, the more harmless posting by the CDPR guy recently generated a lot of heat at Resetera). Here we have a pretty calm discussion on whether it even is transphobic. This shows at least how the reactions got more and more heated over time.

 

[DeepEnigma]

He chose that time span mainly because of the meltdown politics from what I understand, however people from long before that, or not directly involved in that, he's reviewed and overturned them.

He chose that time frame to focus on his own, however, if you asked on someone else's behalf or shot him an email outside of that time frame, he would review them as well.

Him and his mod staff have done a remarkable job on fixing a lot of the damage those extremists caused.

 

[Yoshi]

Him and his mob staff

Might want to change a word here .

 

[DeepEnigma]

Might want to change a word here .

Hahaha, true.

 

[Cybrwzrd]

Words like "problematic", "Yikes", "gross", "*-phobic", etc are all so close to the doublespeak/newspeak from 1984 that is is eerie. Did these people never read that book? Orwell was off by about 24 years, but nearly everything in that book is coming true these days.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Words like "problematic", "Yikes", "gross", "*-phobic", etc are all so close to the doublespeak/newspeak from 1984 that is is eerie. Did these people never read that book? Orwell was off by about 24 years, but nearly everything in that book is coming true these days.

It was predictive programming.

 

[Redneckerz]

Have a look at the banning justice thread, where Evilore is deliberately choosing a certain timespan to review the bannings.

He recently reviewed a request of mine from a poster from 2012.

Other than that, it is of course just my impression, but for a good indicator (and I hope no one making a big fuzz about this reads this now), take a look at the postings starting here:
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/soni...-is-incredible.1060784/page-22#post-195780809
Imagine the Sonic account making this posting a year later. Hell would have broken loose (in fact, the more harmless posting by the CDPR guy recently generated a lot of heat at Resetera). Here we have a pretty calm discussion on whether it even is transphobic. This shows at least how the reactions got more and more heated over time.

Over time compared to what? I dont think one thread proves that GAF picked it up in later years when Social Media Politics grew into the mainstream over time.

 

[Yoshi]

He recently reviewed a request of mine from a poster from 2012.


Over time compared to what? I dont think one thread proves that GAF picked it up in later years when Social Media Politics grew into the mainstream over time.

Of course a single data point usually is not sufficient data, but if you consider contemporary reactions to as much as offensive wordings in a comedy program (Gervais) or lighthearted, yet certainly mildly offensive jokes on Twitter on Resetera, it is pretty clear that the posting from the Sonic account would not go over near this well. In fact, I am pretty sure, the same posting today would cost Ruby his job (which would be a shame because he does a fantastic job).

 

[Redneckerz]

Of course a single data point usually is not sufficient data, but if you consider contemporary reactions to as much as offensive wordings in a comedy program (Gervais) or lighthearted, yet certainly mildly offensive jokes on Twitter on Resetera, it is pretty clear that the posting from the Sonic account would not go over near this well. In fact, I am pretty sure, the same posting today would cost Ruby his job (which would be a shame because he does a fantastic job).

But that's like giving ERA way more importance than it should have. It only should have threads like these, nothing more.*

*Then again the fact that ERA's infamy rose beyond gaming sites is perhaps its greatest achievement. Because now we have an example to point at.

 

[Papa]

The social justice focus only came up in the final couple of years though.

So what? The point is it was the same people yikesing. Perhaps we should be considering the sum of 46,750 normalised to a rate of ~7,800 yikes per year since 2012.

 

[Redneckerz]

So what? The point is it was the same people yikesing. Perhaps we should be considering the sum of 46,750 normalised to a rate of ~7,800 yikes per year since 2012.

I want to know how many Mega-Yikes per second can be achieved if i overclock my Woof beyond its recommended Barking speed. I realize that this may not be a good look, but unless i go womp womp, this is a good hill to die on.

 

[Cybrwzrd]

I want to know how many Mega-Yikes per second can be achieved if i overclock my Woof beyond its recommended Barking speed. I realize that this may not be a good look, but unless i go womp womp, this is a good hill to die on.

My friend, that was a very good way to use many words and still say absolutely nothing.

 

[Redneckerz]

My friend, that was a very good way to use many words and still say absolutely nothing.

There are positive things that come out of ERA, including, but not limited to, new ways to say much ado about nothing.

 

[Cybrwzrd]

There are positive things that come out of ERA, including, but not limited to, new ways to say much ado about nothing.

Well, you can't actually say something, otherwise someone would get offended by an opinion. Can't have that happening and someone getting their feelings hurt, that would be double plus ungood. Better not to have an opinion and to just follow the rules and hold acceptable opinions.

 

[Acerac]

Shamelessly stolen, but i felt this picture highlighted nicely how often NewSpeak/dog whistles like Bark, Woof, Yikes and Oof are used. In the case of Yikes, its this:

I suppose responding to that stat by using the word would be a bit on the nose. I credit everyone for avoiding the obvious joke, it is taking all my will power to not say it.

 

[Papa]

I suppose responding to that stat by using the word would be a bit on the nose. I credit everyone for avoiding the obvious joke, it is taking all my will power to not say it.

Say it

 

[DeepEnigma]

Say it

 

[Papa]

Liked only because of Anna