DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Solo was fantastic. Blew away TLJ as a "Star Wars film" IMO.
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Kathleen Kennedy's Lucasfilm Deal Extended for Three Years
- Thread starter VulcanRaven
- Start date
Solo was fantastic. Blew away TLJ as a "Star Wars film" IMO.
I've been saying it since Disney bought Star Wars back in the day. They should have just made Timothy Zahn's books into the new trilogy. I know Harrsion ford didn't want to play Han outside of 1 movie, but he could have been written out easily enough. Thawn done right could have been this generations Darth Vader. Mara Jade would have been a million times more popular than Rey.
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Catphish
Member
I would like to know exactly which characters you feel were fantastically developed.
pel1300
Member
To me, statements like these are the smoking gun. I don't put much into the concerns over "Force is Female" t-shirts and how all the women turned into Mary Sues. Their ideological beliefs may be to blame, but to blame for what? Crappy writing, as far as I can see it. No need to worry about an agenda when the movie was shit anyway. And the Star Wars franchise was already shot when all the Expanded universe got swept out of the canon by a Papal Decree.
She approached the franchise with smugness and an agenda in tow. Heck, if she doesn't have experience with Star Wars or didn't grow up with it, the truly 'PR' response would be to admit with a disarming smile "I wasn't a fan growing up because I never saw it, but you know what? I have an amazing team and I've spent the last [x years] learning about this wonderful science fiction universe."
Expecting someone to show some humility when taking the helm on a 40-year-old multi-billion dollar franchise isn't "fragility" or "entitlement". This is why people hate Hollywood rehashes and remakes, and this is why fans reacted so angrily when they were told to shut up and sit down.
Instead of showing curiosity, excitement, passion, or humility, her answer was essentially asking "who are you to question my credentials?"
I wonder if Vice Admiral Holdo's dialogue and personality were based on Kathleen Kennedy. Naaaah, that'd be too funny.
lol I heard this theory before...I don't know if it was a robothead video or a different review on youtube but basically the person said:
"The Holdo character seems like a Kathleen Kennedy inserting a proxy of herself into the movie"
pel1300
Member
I remember those days....many fans suggested that....I said hell no, I'm sure Lucasfilm, now that it isn't a bunch of yes people following one person's orders, will come up with something better.
But now I think you were right. LOL.
Seriously, any random fan can cook up some fan fiction in five minutes that makes more sense than what we got.
I posted this on sherdog forums:
What if Rey was actually trained since early childhood by Luke? Let's say her parents abandoned her because her power frightened them, so Luke takes her in, acts as a parent figure to her....Leia is like her aunt..say between ages 3 to 7,
What if it turned out that her raw power drew the attention of Snoke, which frightened Luke...so he hid her on Jakku then wiped out her memory of him and her Jedi training. But he intended to return to Jakku eventually, give her her memory back, and complete her training...as Luke leaves Jakku kid Rey cries, hence the flashback in the Force Awakens
but then shortly later he and Snoke had an epic battle, a battle that damages Luke's mind and body to the point where Luke just isn't himself anymore both mentally and physically...it gets so bad the Luke becomes a danger not only to himself, but to those he cares about....and that's why he later goes to The Jedi Temple to regroup and heal himself, kind of like Bucky getting himself healed in Wakanda (a process that took like...two years between Civil War and Infinity war)
So someone responded to me with: "I'll take it...simple, but effective. I would have hated your fanfic back then..but I love it now"
pel1300
Member
lol, me too.
I'm guessing kylo? Honestly Kylo is the only interesting character left. He was developing well until that stupid Crate battle where he goes full "YAAAAAH I A SO ANGRY AND WANT TO DESTROY EVERYTHING"
After Kylo....maybe Leia...eh...not really.
Fuck this movie, LOL
Halo0629
Member
I don't get it. Does the force have a vagina or something? Is wind or electricity female as well?
VulcanRaven
Member
She seems to give a lot of creative freedom to directors so I wouldn't blame her for the bad movies. I got the impression from interviews that Rian Johnson wrote the script very freely. The Last Jedi has been the only bad one of these new movies in my opinion. Solo was ok.
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As evidenced by the worsening movies and the shrinking box office.
She is loving it straight to death apparently
AnotherDayAnotherDollar
Banned
I'll watch EP IX (albeit probably just once in theaters unless it blows me away) and the Favreau series. Not sure about anything else besides that.
cryptoadam
Banned
So I finally finished Solo last night, and what a surprise, or should I say not a surprise with a big reveal. As soon as the helmet was coming off I knew
Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
Kylo, Luke, and Leia were the primary ones.
Catphish
Member
Perhaps you can elaborate on that...
Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
What is there to say that isn't obvious through watching the film? Kylo struggling with the light and dark side, unsure of how he will act until he forges his own path. Luke who wallowed in self-pity and shame for years after his failures as a teacher until he finally owned up to it, etc.
Catphish
Member
I'll grant you Kylo because, imo, he's the only character with any semblance of an arc.
I don't agree about Luke, because he didn't develop. He was presented as something grossly different than what he was in the OT, for reasons that don't mesh with the established character, and then conveniently did the "right" thing at the end.
And I don't see how Leia was developed at all.
You're entitled to your perspective, obviously, but if you're trying to convince me or anyone else, you'll have to do more than say, 'isnt it obvious' because, no, it isn't.
Having characters do random things isn't the same as developing them.
thequestion
Member
They could of at least loosely adapted the Zahn books to film and it would of been great. In the first book where Luke is trapped on that planet where he is unable to use his force powers and then, finally getting back the force, would of been perfect for reintroducing him to this generation of films.
Emily Blunt as Mara Jade would of been amazing imo.
Grinchy
Banned
And then the other big twist reveal where a completely blue holographic skype call for some reason can also show bright red for dramatic effect when he for no reason pulled his lightsaber out.
Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
I have zero interest in convincing you or anyone else. Those were just my opinions and nothing more.
#Phonepunk#
Banned
Luke's "development": 30 years offscreen running a Jedi academy that produces the new Space Hitler. do we see any of the other students? no. do we see any of the Jedi academy? no. do we see any temples? no. do we even get any cool looking skies that could be taken from a sci fi paper back? nope.
out of 30 years of tantalizing backstory, all we get is one scene, replayed twice, so that we are led to believe that one, or possibly both, of the scenes are bullshit. this is poor storytelling. this is not grand and dramatic. this is not imaginative pulp fantasy. this is art school deconstructionist bullshit. i will not see this guy's trilogy at all. yes, i get that it is a reference to something you learned in film school, i don't care. you have no imagination.
do we get to see Luke's reaction to hearing that his lifelong friend and brother-in-law Han Solo is dead? nope. sadly, none of the original three are in each other's presence when they die. that happy image at the end of ROTJ? they all die alone! in fact they haven't spoken in 30 years so they might as well have had a massive falling out for all we know and the OT was the only 5 years they were friends. there is nothing to go on. it's a storytelling vacuum. this is because it is unimportant in the face of hyping the new characters.
Kylo didn't really change much. despite all the "Kill the past" sloganeering (playing great in trailers & message boards) he is the same old thing, the dark cloaked sith lord, abusive of his inferiors, with a planet killing space ball, offering to join the main good guy, revealing something shocking about their parentage, hunting down the rebels, using space ESP, sword fighting a good guy on the other side of a slowly closing door while the other good guys use it as a distraction to get away, etc. red lightsaber, AT-ATs, it's all the same old shit, just sold to people as NEW and SUBVERSIVE. cos they did it a little out of order, had one character play another character's role, or did multiple references at once.
out of 30 years of tantalizing backstory, all we get is one scene, replayed twice, so that we are led to believe that one, or possibly both, of the scenes are bullshit. this is poor storytelling. this is not grand and dramatic. this is not imaginative pulp fantasy. this is art school deconstructionist bullshit. i will not see this guy's trilogy at all. yes, i get that it is a reference to something you learned in film school, i don't care. you have no imagination.
do we get to see Luke's reaction to hearing that his lifelong friend and brother-in-law Han Solo is dead? nope. sadly, none of the original three are in each other's presence when they die. that happy image at the end of ROTJ? they all die alone! in fact they haven't spoken in 30 years so they might as well have had a massive falling out for all we know and the OT was the only 5 years they were friends. there is nothing to go on. it's a storytelling vacuum. this is because it is unimportant in the face of hyping the new characters.
Kylo didn't really change much. despite all the "Kill the past" sloganeering (playing great in trailers & message boards) he is the same old thing, the dark cloaked sith lord, abusive of his inferiors, with a planet killing space ball, offering to join the main good guy, revealing something shocking about their parentage, hunting down the rebels, using space ESP, sword fighting a good guy on the other side of a slowly closing door while the other good guys use it as a distraction to get away, etc. red lightsaber, AT-ATs, it's all the same old shit, just sold to people as NEW and SUBVERSIVE. cos they did it a little out of order, had one character play another character's role, or did multiple references at once.
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cryptoadam
Banned
What I want to know is why is the First Order all of a sudden following Kylo? Wasn't he basically a joke in the first movie. Now Snoke is dead and some reason Kylo is the new supreme leader. And where is Kylo getting the money from? I mean we never found out where Snoke gets his money but he is an old guy so we can assume he amassed some sort of wealth. Kylo is Hans son (Han has no money), trained with Luke (Luke has no money) and then was Snokes bitch (he basically made fun of him for both movies).
The next movie better deal with the First Order being broke and them finding an actual leader.
PrCat88
Member
As long as they've learned from the feedback of what didn't work on their last batch of films I'm fine with this. If not and their plan is just to double down on the same kind of mediocrity they've been doing then I'm out as a Star Wars fan. I'm not above giving people second chances, but how rare is it that a studio does this after troubled development on at least three of their five films in development?
Lupingosei
Banned
Yes, becoming a fan is just not worth it anymore.
Enjoy as long as you can, but don't look back as soon as it gets bad. Don't clinch to something, just let it got.
There will be a lot of franchises in the future getting a similar treatment.
michaelius
Banned
Sad but between at most average movies with Rogue One being only one worth watching and EA getting video game license I'm not sure I care that much anymore.
ickythingz
Banned
This is bait. No sane human can think that "episode 8 was fantastic from its cinematography, character development, and direction..."
If this is not bait... then our civilization is confirmed to be on a downward spiral.
Helios
Member
And all the video games like Republic Commando and the original Battlefronts.
Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
Or, and this may surprise you, people have a different opinion on what constitutes a good/entertaining film. I know, it is a shocking revelation for many. ;D
Female neckbeards.
DunDunDunpachi
Patient MembeR
Sure. "Neck"beards.
ultrazilla
Gold Member
She's taken Star Wars and made it a commentary on social justice warriors and other stupid bullshit that has no place in a Star Wars film. She's also taken a HUGE SHIT on the original trilogy/Skywalker Saga. I used to be excited for Star Wars films. Not any longer. So sad.
The *only* positive seems to be that Disney is no longer talking about Rian Johnson's "new trilogy" and hopefully it's been shit canned after the well deserved backlash from The Last Jedi which is so fucking bad, I only watched it once and just want to forget it even exists.
The *only* positive seems to be that Disney is no longer talking about Rian Johnson's "new trilogy" and hopefully it's been shit canned after the well deserved backlash from The Last Jedi which is so fucking bad, I only watched it once and just want to forget it even exists.
ultrazilla
Gold Member
Re-read what your wrote and get back with us. Saying "The Force is female" most certainly has to do with Star Wars. It's just another example of social justice warrior mentality that she's brought to a franchise that frankly never needed it to begin with. And the fact that you're trying to pass it off on it being a "Nike" thing is exactly the sjw bullshit we're talking about here. Star Wars doesn't need fucking Nike or anything else
to "fix it" or make it "more accessible" to "other people". Star Wars was always inclusive to everyone.
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Madflavor
Member
Because I haven't been a fan for a few months now, I've been looking at this whole thing from a whole new perspective. Why are people so obsessed with Star Wars?
I understand the OT are timeless classics, and that the universe and lore of Star Wars have spawned countless books and video games that people have enjoyed over the years. But people worship it like it's the greatest and most important thing ever. There was a time when people flocked to see the next Star Wars movie, not because of brand loyalty or recognition, but because they were really well made blockbusters that told an endearing adventure story.
Star Wars peaked in the early 80s, and never has reached the same level of quality since then. That's not to say good things haven't come from it since then, but they're never gonna tell a beloved and timeless tale like that did with the OT. Saying "This new Star Wars movie is the best since Empire!" is such a cliche at this point. No they're not. They're rehashes of the same shit, and even if they're not, they all have the same tired elements. It's a creatively bankrupt setting.
Far as I'm concerned, the MCU is a better franchise. Even their worst films were still solid, it has wildly different settings and characters to play with, and they're loyal and true to the characters.
I understand the OT are timeless classics, and that the universe and lore of Star Wars have spawned countless books and video games that people have enjoyed over the years. But people worship it like it's the greatest and most important thing ever. There was a time when people flocked to see the next Star Wars movie, not because of brand loyalty or recognition, but because they were really well made blockbusters that told an endearing adventure story.
Star Wars peaked in the early 80s, and never has reached the same level of quality since then. That's not to say good things haven't come from it since then, but they're never gonna tell a beloved and timeless tale like that did with the OT. Saying "This new Star Wars movie is the best since Empire!" is such a cliche at this point. No they're not. They're rehashes of the same shit, and even if they're not, they all have the same tired elements. It's a creatively bankrupt setting.
Far as I'm concerned, the MCU is a better franchise. Even their worst films were still solid, it has wildly different settings and characters to play with, and they're loyal and true to the characters.
iconmaster
Banned
And I’ve stopped hoping for one. Time to move on.
Petrae
Member
This is the way I went.
To me, “Star Wars” ended after Episode III. That’s where my fandom— and interest— ended. I tried Episode IV.5... I mean Episode VII and that Rogue One thing, and didn’t care for either. No reason to invest my time and money after those. Disney Star Wars was its own thing, a thing I didn’t like, so I just don’t bother anymore.
It’s not worth getting mad at or getting into fights over. Life’s too short to waste on shit you don’t like, especially with free time getting more and more limited. Let those who like Disney Star Wars keep supporting it. I’ll move on to something else.
Hudo
Member
I really liked Rogue One but it seemed like that movie was a happy accident... Not sure what's going on over at Disney. I don't know Kennedy but reading through interviews with her, one can get the impression that she doesn't really (want to) know why Star Wars became popular and what made the old movies great. From my uninformed point point of view, she shouldn't be at the helm of the franchise. But I guess it's like with Andrew Wilson and EA; if she manages to make a profit at the end of the day, why should she be replaced?
Although, Solo bombed if I recally correctly, right? So, maybe if future movies bomb as well, Disney might rethink that decision...
All I know is that I kinda stopped caring after Episode 8 (I didn't like it). I haven't watched Solo and I don't really feel like I want to...
Although, Solo bombed if I recally correctly, right? So, maybe if future movies bomb as well, Disney might rethink that decision...
All I know is that I kinda stopped caring after Episode 8 (I didn't like it). I haven't watched Solo and I don't really feel like I want to...
Geki-D
Banned
You know, in French the word "(La) Force" is literally female. So is "l'électricité". The wind, "(Le) Vent" however, is male.
So I guess those T-shirts are sort of right, in France?
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DunDunDunpachi
Patient MembeR
The French need to answer for these crimes.
(gendered language is fascinating and amusing)
Nymphae
Banned
This is great advice, and not even hard to do. The movies started sucking, and I don't feel any sense of obligation towards a corporation or movie franchise.
ruvikx
Banned
The SJW aspect is merely a bigger (biggest) symptom of a very serious anti-creative disease which permeates through the people at Lucasfilm & Disney: they saw Star Wars first & foremost as a "Cultural money making event" (like Christmas) derived from a "good versus evil" battle which required characters who mirrored modern society & applied #currentyear political angles to everything within their story. They weren't interested in telling a unique & exciting tale, no, they wanted a fucking product which incorporated a checklist of needs they believed would make it an economic hit in the late 2010's, i.e. placing the demographics & gender of their 'heroes' as a primary concern (women, blacks & latinos) & throwing in a rehash of the Empire with a modern 'alt-right' twist.
It's no longer about story telling, it's just an empty corporate product designed to sell to a 7 billion global population with exploitative concepts for each & every race, gender & age-group so that all of them find something to 'enjoy' in Disney's Star Wars. Here's the net result: it's a lifeless corporate product which was stillborn off the conveyor belt & has zero heart.
It's that moment when political agendas & corporate interests royally fuck art in the ass. Say hello to Disney's Star Wars.
Sapiens
Member
I honestly don’t think Kathleen Kennedy, who is a producing legend, deserves the amount of vitriol directed to her.
The real problem is that Disney simply played it as safe as possible going with someone as “blah” as JJ to manage the creative side of it. This is an intentionally broad choice that has paid off for the most part.
Disney has probably made their money back by now and they have an internatinallly palletable franchise.
They could not pick someone better than Kennedy to manage the business end of it. She’s doing fine.
The real problem is that Disney simply played it as safe as possible going with someone as “blah” as JJ to manage the creative side of it. This is an intentionally broad choice that has paid off for the most part.
Disney has probably made their money back by now and they have an internatinallly palletable franchise.
They could not pick someone better than Kennedy to manage the business end of it. She’s doing fine.
pel1300
Member
The business end maybe...the creative side? They need need someone who understands Star Wars and what made people love it for that. Kevin Feige would be a great person for the job....but then the MCU would suffer....the next best choice is Dave Filoni working together (and more involved than in Rogue One) with the directors of the new movies......
BANGS
Banned
Honestly Star Wars being nothing more than a two hour long toy commercial happened long before the SJW shit... I really don't think the SJW shit is the reason for it being a corporate product rather than a good piece of art...
kunonabi
Member
Disney has had to spend additional money to fix issues with her choice of directors, merchandise sales have been tanking, and Solo was the first ever major SW live action bomb. You could easily pick someone better.
Sakura Doritos
Member
Luke was dangled on a carrot. That isn’t what I call character development. I don’t find TLJ as terrible as others but Luke could have been done better. Hopefully he comes back in 9 like Old Ben Kenobi did in Empire and Jedi.
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