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[Fuz]

Wouldn’t it be midday coffe soon?

Hmm, isn’ Deponia hand drawn? Already read in another thread that you don’t like the game though. In my experience it’s pretty polarizing, people either love or hate it, have hardly ever seen any middle ground. But usually this stems from the humor and/or especially the main character of Rufus: Just read a guy a few days ago - in a comment under a review of The Night of the Rabbit (which I’ve just completed for the first time last weekend) - who said "he hated Deponia’s main character so much he can’t describe it in words"

Certainly not the first time I’ve read stuff like that. I really like the Deponia series though, especially the puzzles. And yeah, Rufus is definitely a self involved jerk and moron but that never bothered me. Well, people are different after all, makes the world go round

Still, are you sure Deponia is animated Flash? The game doesn’t look at all like 3 Minutes to Midnight for example.

Btw - if you’d be so kind to tell me, Sensei - how do you do the rofl emoticon?

Yeah, I detest Deponia. But I played it.
I'm not sure it's animated flash, as I am not sure other adventures that I found off-putting in that regard were, but that's the feeling I get from that particular style of animation and drawing.

Anyway, I played Black Mirror back then... but I have a terrible memory and I don't remember *anything* about it. I think it was decent BUT had a cliffhanger ending.

 

[Vampire On Titus]

I think was Fuz is getting at is developers that use limited animation techniques like motion tweening / skeletal animation rather than frame by frame animation. Basically drawing one (or a few variables for different facial expressions, say) model and manipulating it. It's a technique that became synonymous with amateur web-cartoons, primarily done in flash, because it's easier to do and less time consuming. Hence "flash style." Although, there are plenty of flash cartoons that were also fully animated.

I think it can be done well but I understand where Fuz is coming from because traditional frame by frame animation is typically much more appealing IMO. It's one of the big things that Gibbous has going for it. Still, games like Jenny Leclue are making use of limited animation techniques with great results.

As far as 3 Minutes To Midnight, itself: I saw the trailer a while back but I'm really not sure what to make of it. I'll wait till I can see some extended gameplay / character interaction and really get a feel for what the game is like to form an opinion.

 

[Fuz]

I think was Fuz is getting at is developers that use limited animation techniques like motion tweening / skeletal animation rather than frame by frame animation. Basically drawing one (or a few variables for different facial expressions, say) model and manipulating it. It's a technique that became synonymous with amateur web-cartoons, primarily done in flash, because it's easier to do and less time consuming. Hence "flash style." Although, there are plenty of flash cartoons that were also fully animated.

I think it can be done well but I understand where Fuz is coming from because traditional frame by frame animation is typically much more appealing IMO. It's one of the big things that Gibbous has going for it. Still, games like Jenny Leclue are making use of limited animation techniques with great results.

As far as 3 Minutes To Midnight, itself: I saw the trailer a while back but I'm really not sure what to make of it. I'll wait till I can see some extended gameplay / character interaction and really get a feel for what the game is like to form an opinion.

Thank you for explaining it way better than I could have ever done. =)
Also for teaching me the correct terms.

Anyway, Gibbous is *partially* guilty of this. Looks like a blend of the two techniques. Sure as hell looks WAY better than your Deponias, though.

 

[Vampire On Titus]

Charles Cecil speaking on the infamous Broken Sword 1 "goat puzzle."

I never actually completed Broken Sword 1 and wasn't as enamored with it as most AG fans are. Still I did get up to the goat puzzle and it totally did break me. Everything else before that I was able to figure out but that goat head-butted me right into a walkthrough. I was so dissatisfied finally reading the solution that I stopped playing the game shortly after lol.

On a totally unrelated note I finally checked out Return Of The Tentacle. Qualified praise can be a bit tacky so I almost don't want to say "for a fan game..." But, for a fan game, this is really impressive. There's obviously a lot of re-used assets but the substantial amount of new design & animation is great. I really appreciate what they've done. Like many fan games a lot of it is extremely referential to the original. At times it can be a bit much. But it doesn't negate the simple fun of playing with these characters again.

 

[frogmeetsdog]

I think was Fuz is getting at is developers that use limited animation techniques like motion tweening / skeletal animation rather than frame by frame animation. Basically drawing one (or a few variables for different facial expressions, say) model and manipulating it. It's a technique that became synonymous with amateur web-cartoons, primarily done in flash, because it's easier to do and less time consuming. Hence "flash style." Although, there are plenty of flash cartoons that were also fully animated.

I think it can be done well but I understand where Fuz is coming from because traditional frame by frame animation is typically much more appealing IMO. It's one of the big things that Gibbous has going for it. Still, games like Jenny Leclue are making use of limited animation techniques with great results.

As far as 3 Minutes To Midnight, itself: I saw the trailer a while back but I'm really not sure what to make of it. I'll wait till I can see some extended gameplay / character interaction and really get a feel for what the game is like to form an opinion.

Ah ok, thanks for the clarification!

 

[frogmeetsdog]

Yeah, I detest Deponia. But I played it.

Anyway, Gibbous is *partially* guilty of this. Looks like a blend of the two techniques. Sure as hell looks WAY better than your Deponias, though.

Just replayed the three Deponias during the last weeks after having played the last one 2015 (not counting Deponia Doomsday ofc). Imho the games look really good and as I said I love the humor and the puzzle design. Also, I always preferred lighthearted cartoony adventures in the vein of Lucas Arts. Since about 2008 Daedalic had been my favorite PnC developer.

Maybe this also has to do with me being from a German speaking country, Daedalic or other German developers are arguably far more popular here than in other countries. Awards and critics scores are a big indication for this as German publications regularily rated Daedalic's adventure games much higher than the international press:

Deponia 1 for example has an average Metacritic score of only 74 while the three big German game review sites Gamestar.de, 4players.de and pcgames.de rated it with 88, 87 and 84 points respectively. Another example would be The Whispered world with Metacritc 70 but 86, 84 and 85 from the mentioned publications. And Daedalic's games also won quite a bunch of German awards (Whispered Wold was even nominated for "Best German Game of the Year" for example).

Of course this could also have to do with national bias or that adventures are just more popular in Germany than in other countries but different tastes probably play a role in this too as it's pretty similar in comments of user forums I read. German or Austrian players tend to have a much more favorable view on Daedalic's titles than gamers from other countries - At least in my subjective experience.

 

[Mr Underhill]

Anyway, Gibbous is *partially* guilty of this. Looks like a blend of the two techniques. Sure as hell looks WAY better than your Deponias, though.

We do this dynamically for when a hotspot is either very high above or very low, rotating the character's head (directly in Unity) so they look at it, but it's basically the only time we're not using frame-by-frame animation. It helps with immersion, so it's a compromise we were willing to make; 99% of total animations are still drawn frame-by-frame. Anyway, been using my week-ends to replace this with custom animations here and there - e.g., I didn't like the way Buzz's head looked when he talked down to kids or people sitting, so now he crouches in front of them instead I love these more naturalistic animations, I just hope we have the time to implement more - unless you do that, adventure games are basically people awkwardly standing around and wagging their chins with dead expressions on their faces. Nothing too serious, but it's nice if you can break out of that.

E: I feel like I should qualify that - I can't hold the stiffness against games that choose to invest effort into other areas. I'm a big fan of Ben Chandler's work, and the ungodly amount of work he put into Unavowed (I think it has over 130 backgrounds), and the fact that - other than the close-up portraits - he was the sole artist, makes not investing a lot in animation understandable. The game also sold like hotcakes, and I haven't seen anyone complain about the limited scope of animation. I know the hours and hours we're pouring into animating traditionally will not necessarily translate into more sales, that's why it's understandable that devs either skimp out on animation or use puppet-style tools like Spine to make their characters come alive at a fraction of the cost and time investment. As a player, I wish they didn't; as a dev, I completely understand My main concern is making my game look and feel as close to a cartoon as two people can, because games that are the impetus behind making it, like Curse of Monkey Island and DoTT, already did it back in the 90s. But, ahem, let's not compare budgets or talent

Edited a lot for coherence and punctuation. I am really tired, folks

 

[Mr Underhill]

Btw, Lamplight City is out!

 

[thequestion]

Btw, Lamplight City is out!

Thanks for the heads up. I’ll buy it after work. How is it?

 

[Vampire On Titus]

Starting my run of Lamplight City, folks.

Got up to the very start of the first case and I gatta say I'm really impressed with the quality of the VA so far. This is looking like a it'll be a good'n.

 

[frogmeetsdog]

Thanks for the heads up. I’ll buy it after work. How is it?

I'm sure Vampire On Titus will leave some in game impressions soon, for now hope this helps a bit:

I can only speak from the reviews and impressions I read, apparently Lamplight City is a detective game with focus on choices, finding the right suspects and collecting clues. There are 5 cases to be solved within the game. No traditional puzzles and no inventory.

The most positive review (9,5/10) says "a great detective game, it's not for the faint-hearted. Well-written and with multiple character paths to choose from, Lamplight City isn't for puzzle seekers but will satisfy those looking for a great mystery."

A more critical review (6/10) says that "Lamplight City has a hell of a concept behind it, but unfortunately, the cases don't deliver on its promise. When you strip away the idea that the game will let you fail, and that you need to pay particularly close attention to what's happening, you're left with an adequate adventure game that is low on great puzzles."

So some review are (very) positive, others mediocre. Probably mostly depending on what one is looking for in an adventure game. Looking forward to some playing impressions here but personally I think I'll hold out for now as it doesn't sound like my kind of game after all.

 

[Mr Underhill]

I've played the prologue and the first case. The atmosphere is by far the highlight for me, especially the music - it's very Bernard Herrmann-esque, and amazing. Listening to it on bandcamp right now. Great voice acting, also, especially Ben Britton as Miles.

I normally play a lot more comedic adventure games so it took me a bit to adapting to Miles always asking the same dry question of every character ( A lot of "what can you tell me about X, what can you tell me about yourself"), but if you're big into detectivistic stuff a la Sherlock, this game is for you. The way the cases are broken down into clues, objectives and suspects really helps kill that "oh god what do I do next this is overwhelming" feeling that more open-world-ish adventure games can generate.

I only have two gripes so far: it's incredibly weird knowing you have stuff in your inventory and you can't fiddle with it, or even look at it, but at the same time I've only had something like three items on me in total in about three hours of playing, so it's not that big of a deal. And my second gripe, which is actually by design, is not being able to sit back and relax while in dialogue. Choosing the wrong response can spell doom for your investigation, and close off a lot of avenues, so this will have you shifting from the more relaxed, adventure game-y "nothing can go wrong" mood into "oh god if I choose the wrong dialogue line I'm fucked" mode. YMMV on that.

One inevitably will draw comparisons between this and Unavowed. So far, I'll say Unavowed is the more ambitious one, while Lamplight edges out in atmosphere. I'm very big on steampunk and I love John Atkinson Grimshaw, so Lamplight feels closer to my heart. If the above sounds good to you, definitely get it.

 

[TripleSun]

Anyone else receive their PnC books from Bitmap yet? Mine arrived a few hours ago. The packaging is superb. Edge guards and all. Book is super thick (as advertised) and came with the newsletter postcards. Very happy with the result. Can't wait to get many hours out of this thing.

 

[woodtock]

Check out this weird game (Leisure Suit Larry: Wet Dreams Don't Dry): https://woodyplays.com/2018/09/15/leisure-suit-larry-wet-dreams-dont-dry/

 

[Mr Underhill]

Anyone else receive their PnC books from Bitmap yet? Mine arrived a few hours ago. The packaging is superb. Edge guards and all. Book is super thick (as advertised) and came with the newsletter postcards. Very happy with the result. Can't wait to get many hours out of this thing.

It looks freaking great. And we honestly had no idea we were mentioned in it, best surprise ever

 

[Fuz]

It looks freaking great. And we honestly had no idea we were mentioned in it, best surprise ever

Congratulations, you just went down in history.

 

[frogmeetsdog]

I've played the prologue and the first case. The atmosphere is by far the highlight for me, especially the music - it's very Bernard Herrmann-esque, and amazing. Listening to it on bandcamp right now. Great voice acting, also, especially Ben Britton as Miles.

I normally play a lot more comedic adventure games so it took me a bit to adapting to Miles always asking the same dry question of every character ( A lot of "what can you tell me about X, what can you tell me about yourself"), but if you're big into detectivistic stuff a la Sherlock, this game is for you. The way the cases are broken down into clues, objectives and suspects really helps kill that "oh god what do I do next this is overwhelming" feeling that more open-world-ish adventure games can generate.

I only have two gripes so far: it's incredibly weird knowing you have stuff in your inventory and you can't fiddle with it, or even look at it, but at the same time I've only had something like three items on me in total in about three hours of playing, so it's not that big of a deal. And my second gripe, which is actually by design, is not being able to sit back and relax while in dialogue. Choosing the wrong response can spell doom for your investigation, and close off a lot of avenues, so this will have you shifting from the more relaxed, adventure game-y "nothing can go wrong" mood into "oh god if I choose the wrong dialogue line I'm fucked" mode. YMMV on that.

One inevitably will draw comparisons between this and Unavowed. So far, I'll say Unavowed is the more ambitious one, while Lamplight edges out in atmosphere. I'm very big on steampunk and I love John Atkinson Grimshaw, so Lamplight feels closer to my heart. If the above sounds good to you, definitely get it.

I also wasn‘t a big fan of Crimes & Punishment. Dunno, Whodunnit games just don‘t do it for me. Imo they‘re very hard to pull off right, limited by technological and logical constraints - Maybe they‘ll be a better genre for VR. And of course I can‘t speak for Lamplight City as I haven’t tried it so far but when I heard the dev is Grundislav I was hoping for a more traditional adventure in the vein of Shardlight which I liked very much.

Same as Crimes and Punishment, Lamplight seemingly is dividing the community (and is one of the few games where the average metacritic user score coincides with the critics) - Luckily only between mediocre and very good. No negatives, so I‘m sure it‘s an engaging game in its own rights, I‘m just not that much into the crime solving genre.

But may I ask another question about Gibbous that I‘m curious about for a while now? I regularily check the Kickstarter page but there never was an update about the delay in production because of the saddening incident with Don, the voice actor. I really hope he‘s recuperating and would be interested if you already know how to go forward now.

Did you send out the betas anyway without the important voice acting parts and is there light at the end of the tunnel regarding the games release (date)?

Of course I‘m aware that I‘m not entitled to an answer, alas I‘m not even a backer after all (would‘ve been if I‘d known about the game much sooner but that‘s little consolation of course) - But I‘d love to hear that Don is doing better. Also, still looking so much forward to Gibbous.

I know you said sessions are delayed indefinitely but I got hopeful that maybe there’s progress again or the situation is less severe than first thought as there are still no Kickstarter updates addressing your unfortunate turn of events.

Ceratinly the ETA has been pushed back quite a bit but are there any encouraging news about progress in general and/or Don’s health in particular?

Thanks in advance if you reply, if you don‘t I understand too.

 

[Fuz]

Well, I received my CE of The Art of Point & Click.

It's fucking amazing. Way beyond my expectations. This is the best Bitmap Book so far... it's way bigger (I didn't expect it to be so huge, it's kind of intimidating) and more refined than the - already excellent - others.

Took all my force of will to unpack it... I wanted to leave it packed, perfect, unspoiled.

 

[Vampire On Titus]

New Truberbrook (among others) gamescom preview from Adventure Gamers. Interesting to finally get some more in depth game-play insights:

The next scene was set at some later point in the game, where we first explore an important bunker. There is more gameplay here, involving moving some objects around and getting into a dialog puzzle with an AI (that got increasingly emotional further into the conversation) in order to progress. The gameplay is traditional and has inventory items, but they cannot be combined with each other directly and you can only attempt to use them on places where it makes at least some sense. The last scene we saw was an interrogation in a dark room using Rorschach pictures. This part was a bit hard to connect to the rest without context, but it was funny and struck a good tone.

Thankfully there's inventory and puzzles involved. Somewhat simplified in that they've paired down the potential use but it seems like wrong answers are still possible and there'll be some legitimate thinking involved (hopefully). The description reminds me of how Life Is Strange handled it's few inventory puzzles. You could use items for some seemingly plausible, but wrong, solutions... However the game didn't let you attempt to use your items on every object in the game.

Also it appears the game has been pushed back to early 2019:

Trüberbrook has been slightly delayed from its optimistic Kickstarter schedule, now targeting a first-quarter 2019 release for Windows, Mac, Linux, Xbox One, PS4 and Switch. But from everything I've seen, it will be well worth the wait.

Which is understandable albeit a bit of a bummer. But there's this cool ass new screenshot from the games twitter account, though:

Spoiler: cool ass new screenshot

 

[Vampire On Titus]

New Blacksad teaser-trailer looks VERY interesting. There's something really hilarious and appealing about these anthropomorphized characters. Also looks like Pendulo's biggest budget affair to date. I always hold out hope for them because I loved The Next Big Thing so much. Really disliked "Yesterday." But this could be good from the looks of it. Gameplay seems interesting too from the Adventure Gamers preview:

The gameplay contains elements of both classic and modern adventure games. As a detective, players collect evidence and information, which can then be combined in inventory to draw conclusions, kind of like Ace Attorney. It is possible to interact with lots of different things in the environment, but not everything will be helpful.

As far as we can tell from the gamescom demo, the non-linear gameplay very much revolves around the story. Besides the typical detective work, it also features Quick Time Events and multiple choice dialogues. Previous decisions can affect the narrative in multiple ways: if you use the fire exit instead of going through the main door, your quest continues in a different way.

 

[Kadayi]

50s Noir ...check
Play as black cat....check

Sold

 

[TripleSun]

New Blacksad teaser-trailer looks VERY interesting. There's something really hilarious and appealing about these anthropomorphized characters. Also looks like Pendulo's biggest budget affair to date. I always hold out hope for them because I loved The Next Big Thing so much. Really disliked "Yesterday." But this could be good from the looks of it. Gameplay seems interesting too from the Adventure Gamers preview:

Did you ever play the Runaway games? I really miss those. The art style was so gorgeous and loved the characters/situations. That series will always be one of my classics from my younger days. I stopped caring much when they went down the "Yesterday" route. Those didn't do much for me. This looks much better.

 

[Fuz]

New Blacksad teaser-trailer looks VERY interesting. There's something really hilarious and appealing about these anthropomorphized characters. Also looks like Pendulo's biggest budget affair to date. I always hold out hope for them because I loved The Next Big Thing so much. Really disliked "Yesterday." But this could be good from the looks of it. Gameplay seems interesting too from the Adventure Gamers preview:

Yeah, looks great BUT I'm not really a fan of Pendulo. Although Yesterday Origins wasn't bad.
Cautiously optimistic.

 

[Vampire On Titus]

Did you ever play the Runaway games? I really miss those. The art style was so gorgeous and loved the characters/situations. That series will always be one of my classics from my younger days. I stopped caring much when they went down the "Yesterday" route. Those didn't do much for me. This looks much better.

I haven't played them yet but they are on my backlog. I've only played through The Next Big Thing & Yesterday from Pendulo.

Yeah, looks great BUT I'm not really a fan of Pendulo. Although Yesterday Origins wasn't bad.
Cautiously optimistic.

I should remember to say that it's also being co-developed by microids. As you can see at the end of the teaser in the logo line up. Between both studios there's a lot of years worth of experience in the genre. Both studios have been hit & miss with me. But I think the story stands a good chance since it's being adapted from a critically acclaimed spanish comic book.

Of course we'll have to wait and see. I wish they put out footage of the gamescom demo.

 

[frogmeetsdog]

Bad news, if rumors are to be believed it looks as if The Walking Dead Final season won‘t be finished and episode 2 will be the last.

Telltale already seems to have dismissed 90% of its staff and is only looking to fulfill its last contractual obligations before closing down.

Very surprising news that they went downhill this fast after having been the superhype studio just a few years ago. Even after most of their last titles lacked innovation it‘s still sad to see them go. TWD Final season seemed to be on a good way but if they really only release episode 2 anymore it doesn‘t make a whole lot of sense to buy it without ever getting an ending. One of the major downsides of episodic releases ...

Anyway, RIP Telltale.

 

[TripleSun]

Wow, didn't see that coming. What a bummer.. Was looking forward to the Stranger Things game.

 

[Vampire On Titus]

There is some hope for The Final Season, yet. I wouldn't get my hopes up too much atm but there's at least efforts being made. Somewhat comforting after days of silence from TTG higher ups.

 

[frogmeetsdog]

Wow, didn't see that coming. What a bummer.. Was looking forward to the Stranger Things game.

Yeah, was very surprised too. But if you find the time to read this article which was released after Telltale first dismissed 90 employees last year it suddenly doesn't seem that big of a surprise after all.

If those multiple reports by former employees are to be believed there was constant overworking, a very toxic athmosphere after they got too big much too fast, a lot of staff fluctuations as a result and new innovation constantly was quelled by the managment.

If you look at every title after TWD which basically mostly were the same game with different dialogue and other skins every time and the steep decline of Telltale's financial situation now the report looks pretty credible.

 

[frogmeetsdog]

There is some hope for The Final Season, yet. I wouldn't get my hopes up too much either atm but there's at least efforts being made. Somewhat comforting after days of silence from TTG higher ups.

I think there's still a chance at least for TWD Final season. The franchise is still pretty popular (TV show's had a steep decline in quality and is away from its 15 Million high at season 6 and two important leads are quitting this season but they still have 10 mill viewers which stays huge for basic cable. And if previews are to be believed the season 9 premiere is better than the slog of the last two seasons).

Also, the game already has two episodes released. I won't get my hopes up too much either and if it's done it'll probably take quite a while longer than usual but out of all the titles planned or already in the pipeline TWD probably has the biggest chance to be completed by somebody else.

But this will be the first time that I won't play an episode when it's released and wait for the full season (if ever realized). Would consider it a waste of time and money to buy episode 2 if the story would never find to an end. At least I didn't buy the season pass this time (mainly cause of Final Frontier).

 

[frogmeetsdog]

I haven't played them yet but they are on my backlog. I've only played through The Next Big Thing & Yesterday from Pendulo.

Yesterday's probably one the weakest Pendulo games. Haven't played Origins so far though. Runaway also beats the Next Big Thing imo. The story is a little cliched but it has mostly clever puzzles and funny characters - If you ever should find the time to try it I can highly recommend the series, especially part 1.

Can't wait for Blacksad, game looks really special.

 

[dottme]

New Blacksad teaser-trailer looks VERY interesting. There's something really hilarious and appealing about these anthropomorphized characters. Also looks like Pendulo's biggest budget affair to date. I always hold out hope for them because I loved The Next Big Thing so much. Really disliked "Yesterday." But this could be good from the looks of it. Gameplay seems interesting too from the Adventure Gamers preview:

After seeing this game and the feedback of the comic, I've ordered the comic. Let see how good it is. And I'm keeping an eye on the game.

 

[Fuz]

After seeing this game and the feedback of the comic, I've ordered the comic. Let see how good it is. And I'm keeping an eye on the game.

I've read a volume. It's good. Definitely not a masterpiece but good. Though... it left me with a bit of a bad aftertaste because it could have been much more.

 

[Vampire On Titus]

Wow, didn't see that coming. What a bummer.. Was looking forward to the Stranger Things game.

There's a main thread devoted to it in gaming discussion if you want to know more.

I posted some of the Stranger Things gameplay leaks in that thread. So you can see some of the WIP build of the game. (1) (2)

It's early on, so you can definitely see some rough edges in need of smoothing out, but it looks like the game could have shaped up into something cool. Also worth mentioning, Netflix has come out and said they're still interested in a Stranger Things game. Apparently they're currently considering other developers that could take on the project.

I think there's still a chance at least for TWD Final season. The franchise is still pretty popular (TV show's had a steep decline in quality and is away from its 15 Million high at season 6 and two important leads are quitting this season but they still have 10 mill viewers which stays huge for basic cable. And if previews are to be believed the season 9 premiere is better than the slog of the last two seasons).

Also, the game already has two episodes released. I won't get my hopes up too much either and if it's done it'll probably take quite a while longer than usual but out of all the titles planned or already in the pipeline TWD probably has the biggest chance to be completed by somebody else.

Over the weekend things were looking pretty grim. There was nothing but a vague statement from TellTale officially, with no specific mentions to TWD. There was lots of speculation and rumors floating around. As well as some candid statements from recently layed-off TellTale employees saying things like "don't get your hopes up for episodes 3 & 4." Until this latest tweet from TTG the expectation was episode 2 and nothing further. Now there's some degree of hope.

But anyone looking to save the remaining episodes would essentially be an angel investor. Sales wise all of TTG has been on a massive, consistent, downward trend. We don't have the numbers for TWD:TFS itself but we know from the CEO's first statement after the layoffs that their recent attempt to make higher quality games "did not translate to sales." SteamSpy has TFS within the 50 to 100k range. Of course that's just one platform and they're not concrete numbers, but that would roughly be in line with the established trend of sales for TTG.

There's a possibility that all the drama gives TWD TFS some increased visibility and perhaps that could boost sales? But as it stands now there's really not much to gain, financially, from backing TellTale's TWD game. Or at least that's what it looks like. Obviously I'm not privy to all the intimate details of the business at TTG.

 

[frogmeetsdog]

There's a main thread devoted to it in gaming discussion if you want to know more.

I posted some of the Stranger Things gameplay leaks in that thread. So you can see some of the WIP build of the game. (1) (2)

It's early on, so you can definitely see some rough edges in need of smoothing out, but it looks like the game could have shaped up into something cool. Also worth mentioning, Netflix has come out and said they're still interested in a Stranger Things game. Apparently they're currently considering other developers that could take on the project.



Over the weekend things were looking pretty grim. There was nothing but a vague statement from TellTale officially, with no specific mentions to TWD. There was lots of speculation and rumors floating around. As well as some candid statements from recently layed-off TellTale employees saying things like "don't get your hopes up for episodes 3 & 4." Until this latest tweet from TTG the expectation was episode 2 and nothing further. Now there's some degree of hope.

But anyone looking to save the remaining episodes would essentially be an angel investor. Sales wise all of TTG has been on a massive, consistent, downward trend. We don't have the numbers for TWD:TFS itself but we know from the CEO's first statement after the layoffs that their recent attempt to make higher quality games "did not translate to sales." SteamSpy has TFS within the 50 to 100k range. Of course that's just one platform and they're not concrete numbers, but that would roughly be in line with the established trend of sales for TTG.

There's a possibility that all the drama gives TWD TFS some increased visibility and perhaps that could boost sales? But as it stands now there's really not much to gain, financially, from backing TellTale's TWD game. Or at least that's what it looks like. Obviously I'm not privy to all the intimate details of the business at TTG.

Yeah good points. On top of that, with these franchise games there’s always the cost for the IP which probably also doesn’t come too cheap.

And even not taking into account the sales of TFS, if you only compare Final Frontier with the first Season of TWD on SteamSpy the difference is huge! Of course the first season is older and probably has quite a bit more sales under its belt but still, about 10 times more owners (2 - 5 million vs 200 - 500k) compared to the last season says a lot. And as you already mentioned sales for the newest season are about in the same disappointing vein

Seeing as Netflix probably has a higher interest in getting somebody to make the Stranger Things game (as opposed to AMC/TWD which doesn‘t really need much publicity anymore) chances are probably higher for that game to be released after all.

Would just be a real shame, already 2 episodes in and a story that looked much more intriguing than TTG’s last titles. Well, guess it’s just wait and see and hope for that angel investor now.

 

[Vampire On Titus]

Yeah this season was really shaping up to be something quite good, perhaps even great depending on how they managed to close it out. Having just finished the 2nd episode today I can say that it's the best the series has been in years. A good bit better than where season 2 was by its 2nd episode and within spitting distance of where season 1 was. It also has what TWD games have never managed to have so far: A genuinely good romance sub-plot. Which is almost like a miracle after seeing how the romantic entanglements were handled in New Frontier.

I really do hope we get these last two episodes. Though, even if we do, it'll be a shame that the original team responsible for this dramatic increase in quality won't be the ones seeing it through. TellTale really was getting their act together right when it was too late.

 

[frogmeetsdog]

TellTale really was getting their act together right when it was too late.

Exactly! After the first season of TWD they just completely halted any innovation and didn’t try anything new. They (or at least their decision makers) apparently thought merely copying the formula of their big hit title over and over again would translate into indefinite success. But alas the novelty had soon worn off - and the success with it - especially with more and more players starting to realise that their different choices didn’t tailor the story much more than changing some dialogue lines.

Of course implementing too many different routes is nearly impossible as the games would reach a huge size with hundreds of different branches and outcomes rather quickly. But that still didn’t keep me from feeling rather disappointed when I realized for the first time

Spoiler: minor TWD season 1 spoilers

that it made zero difference whom’s life I saved in TWD season 1 as either one died soon thereafter or that I wrecked my brain basically for nothing over the decision to take the food from the trunk or not. It didn’t matter one bit in the end: The antagonist either wanted to kill you because you took it or if not then for another, more far-fetched reason. Endingwise it didn’t make the least bit of a difference.

There are probably a lot of people who felt similarly after realising these unadvertised shortcomings and imo because of this TTG had to put an even bigger focus on their main strength, a strong narrative. Either that or make choices really matter which, as I said, is still pretty difficult to achieve. LiS did it better but in the end

Spoiler: Minor Life is Strange ending spoilers

the game’s conclusion also came down to a single choice between two endings which weren’t influenced by anything you had decided in the episodes before.

Alas in the end Telltale didn’t deliver on either. The narrative of subsequent games even became weaker with one or two exceptions. If the The Verge article I mentioned above is to be believed this was mainly the former managements (Kevin Bruner’s) fault. But either way, any positive changes - and they definitely exist eg in the latest Batman title or TFS - unfortunately were too little, too late :/

 

[Fuz]

Not a big fan of them, and I actually think they were detrimental to the P&C scene. So for me, it's a "good riddance!" sort of thing. If you don't put any actual gameplay in your games, sooner or later you're gonna end up like this.

Although, I really, really loved the first episode of TWAU, to the point I went and bought all the Fables comics... too bad they fucked the story up in the following ones, due to fans putting the little hints together and figuring it all out.

Also, it was my first "TTG formula" game, so I was expecting the next episodes to be more investigation/puzzle driven. Guess who ended up disappointed?

Again: Nothing of value is lost.

 

[frogmeetsdog]

Not a big fan of them, and I actually think they were detrimental to the P&C scene. So for me, it's a "good riddance!" sort of thing. If you don't put any actual gameplay in your games, sooner or later you're gonna end up like this.

Although, I really, really loved the first episode of TWAU, to the point I went and bought all the Fables comics... too bad they fucked the story up in the following ones, due to fans putting the little hints together and figuring it all out.

Also, it was my first "TTG formula" game, so I was expecting the next episodes to be more investigation/puzzle driven. Guess who ended up disappointed?

Again: Nothing of value is lost.

I can agree to some point, especially regarding the “Telltale formula”, but I actually liked most of their narrative games up until two or three years ago. No real brain fodder but some gripping stories.

I like their even earlier stuff - when they still dabbled in classic PnCs - much more though, especially Tales of Monkey Island. It’s a pity they never followed up with a sequel. Or at least more games in that vein. They were the literal successors of Lucas Arts after all and Tales is my favorite TTG game up until today. I’d love for some of their core team from back then to get back together and release another classic point’n’click adventure.

But either way, I don’t think they were detrimental to the PnC genre, they rather brought a fresh perspective and new players to it - many of whom wouldn’t have touched adventures otherwise anyway - and also helped put (narrative-driven and classic) adventures on the map again.

Regarding that nothing of value is lost: Maybe gameplay-wise this may be true to some degree - depending on one’s particular taste in games - but imo for the PnC genre as a whole their bankruptcy is rather detrimental. If we like it or not, TTG’s games are seen as Point’n’Click adventures by a lot of mainstream gamers and the younger generation.

I’m afraid their financial collapse will play into the narrative that there just isn’t any money to be made with adventures anymore, even if you’re a critic’s darling like Telltale with big franchise names and easy mainstream gameplay. This could just further deter investors and discourage (future) developers.

Even if one disliked their games, imho their goodbye still spells bad news, especially for the (entire) adventure genre.

 

[Vampire On Titus]

I don't think TellTale was detrimental to the genre. Certainly, over time, detrimental to the quality of their own games... but the genre? They introduced too many people and inspired too many devs to be a detriment. They didn't even negatively impact puzzle solving in adventure games because most of the games they influenced didn't copy telltale in that regard. Life Is Strange, Kings Quest (2015), The Council, The Uncertain, Blues and Bullets, The Red Strings Club, etc. Even upcoming games like Blacksad & Twin Mirror have clearly taken a page from TTGs playbook. All of which include puzzle solving mechanics.

You'd be right to say that none of the puzzle solving in those games is as challenging as the 80's & 90's classics but that's an industry wide trend. Pretty much no genre's current incarnation remains as challenging as it was decades prior.

That's to say nothing of the fact that moral choices are a form of gameplay, whether you appreciate them or not. Or the fact that late-game TTG was incorporating puzzle solving in titles like Batman: The Enemy Within (too little too late, but still). *

Fair enough, that you disliked the games. There were plenty of them that I disliked, myself. I could practically write a book about how much I disliked New Frontier. Still, they were an integral part of the genre's 2010's resurgence and I consider that a good thing.

Spoiler: *

You can even die for solving a puzzle wrong in Batman: The Enemy Within. It's kind of nuts.

 

[Vampire On Titus]

Has anyone else been keeping up with Du Lac & Fey? The debut title from Salix Games a new indie studio with a fairly impressive pedigree (ex Lionhead, Bethesda & Rocksteady, among others). I was just checking up on their social media pages and noticed on their website that the game is actually slated for release this year. I don't know if that's still the case but regardless the game looks like it could be good.

 

[Vampire On Titus]

great news for Walking Dead fans. there's also been some comments suggesting the original team may be brought on board to finish developing the episodes. hopefully that's the case. might not even be too far off schedule if all goes well.

 

[Fuz]

So, question.

I have a friend who, despite my good advice, just bought a PS4Pro. He's asking me for good P&C adventures but I have no idea what's on PS4. Any good ones?

 

[protonion]

So, question.

I have a friend who, despite my good advice, just bought a PS4Pro. He's asking me for good P&C adventures but I have no idea what's on PS4. Any good ones?

Book of Unwritten Tales 2
Thimbleweed Park
Day of the Tentacle
Grim Fandango
Full Throttle
Broke Sword 5
Deponia
Broken Age
King's Quest

 

[Fuz]

Book of Unwritten Tales 2
Thimbleweed Park
Day of the Tentacle
Grim Fandango
Full Throttle
Broke Sword 5
Deponia
Broken Age
King's Quest

Thanks!

 

[Fuz]

Playing Lamplight City. I've solved the first case.

Sadly, I am not really impressed so far. It's kinda... boring to play.

 

[frogmeetsdog]

Playing Lamplight City. I've solved the first case.

Sadly, I am not really impressed so far. It's kinda... boring to play.

Pity ... Not the biggest fan of detective/whodunnit "PnCs" myself (looking at you, Crimes & Punishment) and still looks like Lamplight City isn’t my cup of tea either.

Also very sad about the Gibbous delay - Without the sad incident concerning the voice over artist the game would probably be finished by now :/ Much more importantly though, hope the guy is doing better by now.

-----

Regarding your other question, I found a few other PnCs also available on PS4, for example

- Inner World 1 & 2
- Machinarium
- Back to the Future
- Dead Synchronicity
- Yesterday Origins
- Randal’s Monday

- Also the soon to be released Trüberbook and Black Sad have a planned PS4 port too

Good is relative of course. I haven’t played Yesterday Origins and Randal’s Monday is one of the few PnCs I gave up upon (on PC) because the puzzles were so darn hard (or illogical).

-----

Btw Fuz, just thought about you after I finished Daedalic’s The Dark Eye: Chains of Satinav yesterday. Hadn’t played the game before and I really liked it.

Despite you not liking Daedalic so much I thought you might enjoy the game as it's pretty different from the stuff Poki (the guy from Deponia, Edna & Harvey etc) is involved in. Shortly afterwards I saw that you had rated Memoria - the successor of Satinav - with 10/10 on Metacritic though. So I guess there's a good chance you've played both anyway.

But if you haven't, I can highly recommend Chains of Satinav. The game's at least as good as its successor.

Oh, and also, have you ever played Anna’s Quest? It’s also published by Daedalic but the developer is an Australian guy named Dane Krams who isn’t associated with any other Daedalic games. So if you’ve never tried that one, maybe you’ll also enjoy it as much as I did.

 

[TripleSun]

Seems Life is Strange: Before the Storm is on sale on Steam for $6.79 if anyone hasn't picked it up yet

 

[frogmeetsdog]

Seems Life is Strange: Before the Storm is on sale on Steam for $6.79 if anyone hasn't picked it up yet

Did you play this game and actually like it? I picked it up for iOS last month because there's so little premium adventure stuff to play on mobile nowadays but this "game" is one of the worst choose your own adventure stuff I've ever played. I can't think of any positives for it.

The most challenging stuff you'll do is setting the table or "fix" an old car by exchanging a battery and renovating it with a towel and a light bulb.

I rarely regretted spending money on a game more than I did with Before the Storm. Standard teenage first love drama with choices that don't matter in the least, very weak story with plenty of holes and not even a simple puzzle in sight (Most of this could also be said for LiS but at least there you had the time travel gimmick).

Couldn't recommend that title, even for 99c - Just my 99 cents

 

[TripleSun]

Haven't played it yet, but I just knew there were some fans of the LiS series up in here so thought I would let some people know haha. I keep adding things to my backlog, especially since Thronebreaker: Witcher Tales came out the other day.

Teenage first love drama explains the story as far as I've played perfectly haha. Although I enjoyed the first season. Haven't touched anything after that.

 

[Vampire On Titus]

Spoiler: Life Is Strange: BTS thoughts. No actual spoilers. Just separating it from my post about Dreamfall.

Life Is Strange is one of my favorite adventure games. Possibly in my top 10. Before The Storm, on the other hand, was a massive disappointment to me. They took the plot from a good John Huges esque teen drama (w/ twin peaks and manga influenced / supernatural elements) to a daytime soap tier story about Rachel's sordid family history. The wider cast of LiS is largely ignored, a huge mis-step imo. No stand out moments on the level of the Kate Marsh scene in episode 2 or episode 3's big time jump. The dialogue is somewhat improved in regards to the cringey meme slang from the first game. Also, I think Chloe's new voice actress did a really good job. But that's about all I could say in it's defense.

Oh yeah, you get to play a D&D game with some blackwell kids and it's pretty cool.

The gameplay doesn't fair any better than the story. Nearly all puzzle solving has been stripped away. No rewind mechanic or anything similarly clever. The narrative choices never even give the superficial appearance of mattering. Let alone actually impacting the game. The only thing Before The Storm adds is Chloe's "back talk" mechanic. Which are basically a series of extremely easy, timed, dialogue puzzles where you have to select a relevant quip or insult to succeed. They're nearly all brainless and the game pretty much forgets about the mechanic altogether by the final episode.

I will say that the general consensus among fans is split regarding BTS. It seems to be right down the middle between people who really liked it and others who couldn't stand it. So who knows? Might be worth giving a shot on sale.

I've just finished playing Dreamfall Chapters and I've got to say, this is a really under-rated, under-appreciated, game. I really enjoyed it. Which surprised me because I barely ever hear anyone talk about this game. So you'd think it was some massive disappointment. Far from it, Dreamfall Chapters is one of the best modern, episodic adventure games I've played.

I think my impression of it may have been lesser had I actually played it episodically. It really doesn't have the narrative structure of a typical episodic adventure. Which is analogous to a television serial. Its got a slow & satisfying build much more like the other games in the series. With the same kind of chapter breaks that aren't necessarily book-ended with a cliffhanger or big revelation. As a result DFC, for the most part, feels like a proper long-form adventure game. Which I appreciated.

I loved the expansive open areas. Much bigger and more detailed than is the genre standard. Some of the locations in this game look phenomenal. Exploring them was a real treat. I'm a sucker for being able to see all the memorable settings from The Longest Journey again. But Europolis, the new oppressive dystopian setting, may have stolen the show. A stark difference ;^) from the cheery Casablanca in the previous game.

Plenty of clever puzzles as well. More creative than what Dreamfall (2006) had to offer without ever delving into the occasionally absurd territory of The Longest Journey. Like most other episodic adventure games there's narrative choice and branching paths. I was worried that branching might take away from the experience. Especially since this is the 3rd game in a long running series with a specific story to tell and themes to explore. But it's handled well, there are interesting small scale & big picture choices throughout that never take away from the over-arching narrative of the series. But do result in compelling differences that it's been fun to see play out watching LP's after my run of the game.

The only thing holding back a universal recommendation is that you really do have to have played The Longest Journey and Dreamfall: The Longest Journey to appreciate Dreamfall Chapters. There's an optional summary video to get newcomers up to speed but it really doesn't get the job done. If you have time to go through the whole series or have already played those games It's a must play. I cant believe It flew under my radar for so long. Aside from some rough edges with the animation & few lack-luster cut-scenes (and one bugged puzzle that caused me to reload an old save) it's a fantastic game. I had a blast with it.