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Xbox One did not lose the gen because of the internet policies.

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One of the biggest pieces of misinformation spreading on the internet is that the online policies where the biggest factor in the Xbox Ones failure to be competitive worldwide in the market against the PS4. As well as it being competitive, but still losing, in it's strongest market, the US.

First, I want to point out that the Xbox One reveal and the Xbox One E3 2013 are not the same. Many people combine the two together, the Xbox One's E3 was pretty good and even brought back Killer Instinct. It was the online policies that gave Sony the E# win despite having imo, the worse conference, and sneaking by with the announcement of paying for online.

Now the first thing people forget is that the Xbox One sold 1 million in 24 hours just like the PS4, and was not far from the PS4's sales by years end despite the Xbox One only releasing in 13 countries. You could not tell for months were Xbox was headed because for the first several months since launch one could argue that the policies and the reversal did nothing to effect new Xbox excitement, and your argument would be correct.

The reason why Xbox ended up falling behind was because fans and Microsoft both could not tell where things would end up half a year later:

1. When Xbox One launched there was great demand. But releasing late in other countries would create an unnecessary uphill battle later. This wasn't obvious at first but it quickly came back to bite MS in the butt. Some would blame this on the old internet policies but the truth is it was mainly Kinect that led to the delay.

2. People had no problems paying over $500 for new console hype and the improved Kinect did have some interest initially. But once march came around people were not spending $500 for a console in the slow season. It became clear that the price would become an issue once TitanFall month did not go as expected, it still did ok, but given the amount of push the game and the bundle were given this would become a problem. Leading to a cheaper SKU options in the summer.

3. Kinect itself was a fad, but that wouldn't become obvious until TitanFall month AND Kinects performance once they introduced stand-alone SKU's. If you went just by the first several months it was really unclear that Kinect was a problem in the market. One could argue it wasn't, but it quickly proved to become worthless once it was put out on its own.

4. Microsoft even before things became bad, was not pushing for as many timed exclusives as it did early in the 360's life. But the PS4 did, getting the rights to big games for extended periods of time. Why this was still doesn't make much sense since this was before Xbox fell way behind, but it gave the PS4 a lot of the "few games brought a year" audience. Same with timed DLC.

Xbox One launching late in numerous countries was a disaster, and it was mostly because no one was able to see that Kinect was dying rapidly until several months after launch. I mention this since Kinect was the primary reason for the delay (language). Xbox One also having a high-price was also something that ended up hurting it once Xbox entered the spring months. Especially in Europe. It wasn't until the spring months that Microsoft started to realize they had to change strategies long-term.

But all the above combined had already given Sony a solid lead that was widening, and Microsoft by the end of 2014 had to result to massive sales and heavy advertising to win those months. But around that time Microsoft went to work on improving their services and developing a rebrand (S and later X) to try and revive the Xbox Ones image. Knowing that they would not be able to remedy some of the mistakes they made in the first 70% of 2013-14 and that they had to completely change strategies.

If Microsoft were able to change the price of Xbox, unbundle kinect, buy more timed games, and released in more countries by the end of 2013, I believe things would be different. But it took Microsoft too long to really start addressing numerous issues. In their defense however, for some of those issues it was not obvious they were theire. But even in spring 2014 when they noticed the many long-term problems they faced, they were still slow to react and it was only since summer 2016 that the fixes finally materialized to the point where now everything is back on track. That's 3 years too long.

But like I said, at first it was not obvious, and people blaming the online policies have ignored the first several months of the Xbox One's life.
 

Skyn3t

Banned
Being significantly underpowered in comparison to PS4 did some damage too. Even more than some. I remember the Call of Duty: Ghosts in 720p drama and all that talk about sub 1080p games.
 

Husky

THE Prey 2 fanatic
wait what online policies? pretty sure everyone blames the Xbox One's loss this gen to its steep launch price, weaker hardware, and lack of any exclusives.
 

The_Mike

I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
SonyGAF never cease to amaze. Seems like this is a counter thread to all the positive threads about Xbox One lately.
 
Even with all of that they are still in the game. That shows how much they indeed have turned things around because the PS4 is a collassal hit and haven't made very many errors at all this generation.

Think about the spanking the PS2 did in comparison. We are not seeing that today. Back then the original Xbox struggled to get some of the key third party support. Back then Sony was getting deals like GTA. We don't see that now. In fact we are also seeing more Japanese support coming like Kingdom Hearts 3 and Final Fantasy games. Sony ruled all of that back then.

That's why I find it laughable so many are writing the Xbox One off. And now they are setting themselves up very well for next gen. The hardware wont be shit this time. They have enough studios to get them going and remain competitive now. They have the services like Game Pass and are about to get serious with steaming.

Good times ahead. For everyone. Except for the haters and fanboys who will keep trying to be the loudest group online.
 
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Vawn

Banned
The launch of Xbox One was abysmal for many reasons including it's original Internet policies.

The fact it sold 1 million units fairly quickly, doesn't mean anything. Those people were the hardcore Xbox fans that were going to buy one no matter what Microsoft said/did.

It's always online plans DID hurt it though. The proof is obvious. Microsoft themselves saw that sales would be way below expectations enough for them to completely overhaul their entire vision for the console at the last moment. That helped, but the bad PR was done and many already mentally moved on to PS4 before either console actually released.

A higher price tag and lower specs was another factor. Especially, as only the hardcore Xbox people were defending the decision of a mandatory $100 Kinect.

But Xbox has continued to trail behind the competition in Sony and Nintendo I the last few years and that's because of the single most important factor - games.

When it comes to exclusives, it isn't even a contest with either other console and it has not been for a LONG time (if ever).
 

Vawn

Banned
wait what online policies? pretty sure everyone blames the Xbox One's loss this gen to its steep launch price, weaker hardware, and lack of any exclusives.

"If you don't have a reliable Internet connection, we also have a console for you - it's called the Xbox 360."

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The launch of Xbox One was abysmal for many reasons including it's original Internet policies.

Which is false.

The launch of Xbox One was abysmal for many reasons including it's original Internet policies.

The fact it sold 1 million units fairly quickly, doesn't mean anything. Those people were the hardcore Xbox fans that were going to buy one no matter what Microsoft said/did.

.

It sold close to the PS4 by the end of the year in only 13 countries and problems didn't become obvious until around the spring of 2014. That wasn't all hardcore Xbox fans.

It's always online plans DID hurt it though. The proof is obvious. Microsoft themselves saw that sales would be way below expectations enough for them to completely overhaul their entire vision for the console at the last moment.

The product hadn't launched yet, so me saying it didn't hurt sales after launch is true.

A higher price tag and lower specs was another factor. Especially, as only the hardcore Xbox people were defending the decision of a mandatory $100 Kinect.

I mentioned price and Kinect numerous times.

But Xbox has continued to trail behind the competition Nintendo I the last few years and that's because of the single most important factor - games.

How has Xbox been trailing behind Nintendo the last "few" years if it's likely ahead of the Switch now, and the Switch launched in 2017? Because otherwise a few years would include the Wii U, which was trailing behind the Xbox.

When it comes to exclusives, it isn't even a contest with either other console and it has not been for a LONG time (if ever).

A subjective statement.
 

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
I'm glad Xbox One has turned things around. It's a fact.

But the beginning of the generation was also completely awful for Xbox One gamers. That's a fact, too.

I remember people hanging sales hopes on Sunset Overdrive and Ryse and various Kinect games, as if this would finally catapult the system into competitive numbers compared to the PS4. And then I remember "only in the USA" because everyone agreed PS4 would win the world. And then I remember excuses for why a lack of console numbers and MAUs were sufficient, instead. It was one long, drawn-out apology for the utter disgrace of that period of time from Adam Orth to reveal. We have to consider that Microsoft was handily trouncing Sony last gen in terms of mindshare (oh that term!) and in snagging up exclusives.

The way that momentum of exclusives died off entirely was a disgrace to the Xbox brand. It was their SEGA Saturn, a Virtual Boy, an Atari Jaguar. Microsoft deserved the hate it got but I'm glad they stuck it through for their fans. The reveal, the excuses, the utter devotion to a stupid idea earned them hate, but there's no doubt they've gone far beyond making amends for the start of the generation.
 
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.

When it comes to exclusives, it isn't even a contest with either other console and it has not been for a LONG time (if ever).

Exclusives matter yes, but not to the degree you think they do. The WiiU had them just like the Switch does today. So stop trying to give credit in one scenario while ignoring the other when it's proven you need more than just exclusives. And yes, unlike your desire to ignore the exclusives on the Xbox One and poo poo those games it has them too, just not as many.
 

Fbh

Member
It wasn't the only reason but it was one of them. MS got on the bad side of a lot of people with their initial reveal and plans for the console as well as the entire attitude towards the issue ("we have a console for people that don't want an always online system: it's called the Xbox 360") and Sony took advantage of it. With the whole "Lol look how used games work on ps4" stuff which didn't even end up being a real advantage they had people in the crowd (both there and online) so happy that even the announcement of paid online went over fairly well.

But yeah of course it wasn't the only reason. The fact the console was $100 more expensive than the Ps4 and was performing worse in most third party games didn't help either.
I agree that if they had made Kinect optional and actually made the Xb1 cheaper than the Ps4 (not by much, but say $350 or something) things might have turned out differently.

But I was actually working in retail when this gen launched and we had plenty of people come ask about the whole online deal not quite sure if it was still a thing (the thing is, not everyone follows gaming news so closely and the original online plans made more noise in the news and social media than the eventual reversal of the whole thing). When they also learned the Ps4 was quite a bit cheaper most of them had already made up their mind
 
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Vawn

Banned
Exclusives matter yes, but not to the degree you think they do. The WiiU had them just like the Switch does today. So stop trying to give credit in one scenario while ignoring the other when it's proven you need more than just exclusives. And yes, unlike your desire to ignore the exclusives on the Xbox One and poo poo those games it has them too, just not as many.

You quoted the last part of my post that started off with saying there were MANY reasons for Xbox Ones poor sales and then listing several...
 
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Moneal

Member
It sold close to the PS4 by the end of the year in only 13 countries and problems didn't become obvious until around the spring of 2014. That wasn't all hardcore Xbox fans.

The product hadn't launched yet, so me saying it didn't hurt sales after launch is true.

PS4 and Xbox sales were so close until spring 2014 because both were supply constrained. Once supply caught up to demand for them PS4 was selling almost 2 to 1 and has only been increasing ever since.

Sales were hurt after launch because of the bad PR that came before launch. That bad PR didn't disappear when it launched. I still remember overhearing a customer saying xbox 1 was always online almost a year after release when I was in a gamestop. i even told him they changed that, and he had no clue. Bad PR sticks around a lot longer than you think.
 
I remember people hanging sales hopes on Sunset Overdrive and Ryse and various Kinect games, as if this would finally catapult the system into competitive numbers compared to the PS4. .

Xbox had competitive numbers at the beginning of the gen so not sure what this means.

The way that momentum of exclusives died off entirely was a disgrace to the Xbox brand. It was their SEGA Saturn, a Virtual Boy, an Atari Jaguar.

Jaguar was like 90% exclusives.
 
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Which is false.



It sold close to the PS4 by the end of the year in only 13 countries and problems didn't become obvious until around the spring of 2014. That wasn't all hardcore Xbox fans.



The product hadn't launched yet, so me saying it didn't hurt sales after launch is true.



I mentioned price and Kinect numerous times.



How has Xbox been trailing behind Nintendo the last "few" years if it's likely ahead of the Switch now, and the Switch launched in 2017? Because otherwise a few years would include the Wii U, which was trailing behind the Xbox.



A subjective statement.
If you're going to take issue with every differing opinion (you're doing it in your Gamecube thread, too), rather than start threads, start a blog.
 
You quoted the last part of my post that started off with saying there were MANY reasons for Xbox Ones poor sales and then listing several...

You're still very quick to give credit to exclusives being the main factor. You ignoring Gamecube and WiiU both being collalsal failures in comparison to the Xbox One shows your true bias. Along you investing more of your energy in this thread than the Gamecube one or any other Nintendo topic also shows me your eagerness to put down the Xbox One.
 

MP!

Member
I'll always stand by it... Devices succeed or fail based on public perception not on capabilities ... Wii U, Xbone, Vita,
Of the many problems and imperfections these devices had... their largest problem was public perception, perpetuated by initial impressions and continued echos across the world by all the outlets, absorbed by the vocal haters and then regurgitated across the internet.

These machines weren't terrible... people just said they were.
 
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PS4 and Xbox sales were so close until spring 2014 because both were supply constrained.

This doesn't work when the Xbox One was only in 13 countries. Heck if we use your excuse PS4 was supply constrained for the months following as well.

Noticed MS didn't start thinking anything was wrong until POST Titanfall.

Sales were hurt after launch because of the bad PR that came before launch.

Sales after launch were great which is why Microsoft, some partners, and fans didn't realize anything was wrong.
 

pr0cs

Member
It was a combination of all the issues
- poor leadership that extended from the end of the 360 gen (Matrick and co clearly had no idea what gamers wanted, why they thought people wanted a box to control their TV programming when evidence was clear that most people were contemplating cutting cable)
- higher cost
- weaker box
- weaker exclusive lineup
- questionable message (online only, no disc resell), ties again into my first point

Personally I don't think the online only thing would have been a bad idea, hell 95% of what I buy now is digital. RDR2 I got on disc due to a oneX bundle and I DESPISE having to deal with the disc. The problem was the messaging.
Same with Microsoft space bucks, they for whatever reason listened to the community thinking people hated them when most people who were avid gamers knew the spacebucks were the best way to stock up on credit for cheap (I regularly recall getting points cards at half price, good luck finding store credit for ANY sale now, let alone half price)
 

JaffeLion

Banned
who cares? this is the past, and looking at what they are doing now, its crazy how good they are, especially compared to backwards sony
 
Its quality, not quantity.

The press rated more than half of them highly.

But anyway that's a different discussion.

Nope, it was due to arrogance. The always online strategy was merely a facet of that arrogance.

Always online didn't effect sales though. Also was it really all arrogance given half the polices are a thing in 2018?

Not that I wanted always online I like physical boxes myself.
 
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HeresJohnny

Member
Freedom Gate Co said:
Always online didn't effect sales though. Also was it really all arrogance given half the polices are a thing in 2018?

Not that I wanted always online I like physical boxes myself.

Releasing a $500 console after you just finished watching your competitor struggle for an entire generation while releasing an always online console that excludes a giant swath of the buying public even more so than the high price, the cost of which was largely based on a gimmick whose fad had already passed all on a machine that was less powerful than the soon to be coming cheaper competition was the fucking HEIGHT of arrogance IMO. Plus, Don Mattrick was a fucking shithead.
 

rəddəM

Member
Microsoft shot themselves in the foot (with a shotgun) this gen.
Sony took advantage of it and OWNED them, simple as that.
Maybe next gen they'll learn, anything can happen, including Sony fucking up but I doubt it.
 

Skyn3t

Banned
They learned their lesson this gen. Hope that they'll rock the next one like they did with X360. Looking at their advances it's quite possible.
 
Neither thread is about opinions. Spreading misinformation isn't an opinion either.
Not that i care too much (im less interested in why it bombed rather than the fact that it bombed), but your entire OP still more of an opinion piece. There are parts of each of your arguments that have merit and truth to them, but i think the bigger misinformation here is you suggesting people only think the reason the xbox one failed is due to internet policies. MS got an exponential amount of back lash for it, and the perception it created did hurt sales.

Is that the only reason? Of course not. Most people generally agree that the xbox one's failures were a combination of bad PR and a higher priced console for a weaker system, but of course even that is hard to factually prove. Meaning you cant point at any one thing and definitely say, "that's the reason!" All we can really do is speculate.

Personally, I'd argue that kinect was not a fad and that MS didnt create the needed games that would sell it. Once it became apparent MS was giving up on kinect, a lot of people were disappointed by the move.

I'd also throw in that Sony gambled on DDR5 memory which ended up paying massive dividends imo.

Then there is the global appeal and perception of the xbox. Which for the most part is just plain bad.

I also dont think timed exclusives were what hurt the system. Most people hate timed exclusivity and dont hold it against the system getting excluded.

People always act like MS had no exclusives but in reality it had quite a few good games initially, even more than the PS4. Unfortunately games like Titanfall and Sunset Overdrive suffered bad sales for whatever the reason is people werent buying an xbox one. I jumped in on the xbox one when sunset overdrive was released, knowing halo 5 was soon to come out as well. Later i played Ori and Blind Forest and had my expectations blown out of the water. For those 3 games alone (never played titanfall sadly) my xbox one purchase has been more than justified. And them the Master Chief Collection sealed the deal. Best game i have ever purchased, being a huge Halo fan.
 
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Microsoft shot themselves in the foot (with a shotgun) this gen.
Sony took advantage of it and OWNED them, simple as that.
Maybe next gen they'll learn, anything can happen, including Sony fucking up but I doubt it.

Why doubt it? They did already with the PS3 and their arrogance. That arrogance still exists but I doubt they will fuck up again like that. Kutaragi is gone.

What we should all want though is strong competition. That way they won't get away with being arrogant as much.

Not that i care too much (im less interested in why it bombed rather than the fact that it bombed), but your entire OP still more of an opinion piece. There are parts of each of your arguments that have merit and truth to them, but i think the bigger misinformation here is you suggesting people only think the reason the xbox one failed is due to internet policies. MS got an exponential amount of back lash for it, and the perception it created did hurt sales.

Is that the only reason? Of course not. Most people generally agree that the xbox one's failures were a combination of bad PR and a higher priced console for a weaker system, but of course even that is hard to factually prove. Meaning you cant point at any one thing and definitely say, "that's the reason!" All we can really do is speculate.

Personally, I'd argue that kinect was not a fad and that MS didnt create the needed games that would sell it. Once it became apparent MS was giving up on kinect, a lot of people were disappointed by the move.

I'd also throw in that Sony gambled on DDR5 memory which ended up paying massive dividends imo.

Then there is the global appeal and perception of the xbox. Which for the most part is just plain bad.

I also dont think timed exclusives were what hurt the system. Most people hate timed exclusivity and dont hold it against the system getting excluded.

People always act like MS had no exclusives but in reality it had quite a few good games initially, even more than the PS4. Unfortunately games like Titanfall and Sunset Overdrive suffered bad sales for whatever the reason is people werent buying an xbox one. I jumped in on the xbox one when sunset overdrive was released, knowing halo 5 was soon to come out as well. Later i played Ori and Blind Forest and had my expectations blown out of the water. For those 3 games alone (never played titanfall sadly) my xbox one purchase has been more than justified. And them the Master Chief Collection sealed the deal. Best game i have ever purchased, being a huge Halo fan.

Great post. The only thing I disagree with is Kinect. They had to move on from it. It was too limiting in proving itself to enhance gaming. VR or AR support would be more appealing but that market is too small to really invest heavily in.
 
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Fox Mulder

Member
The online, weaker hardware, and price were all big. Sony dunked on them big time that E3.

All that matters is that MS learned from mistakes and have spent this generation doing some really great stuff and building for their future Xbox.
 
Releasing a $500 console after you just finished watching your competitor struggle for an entire generation while releasing an always online console that excludes a giant swath of the buying public even more so than the high price, the cost of which was largely based on a gimmick whose fad had already passed all on a machine that was less powerful than the soon to be coming cheaper competition was the fucking HEIGHT of arrogance IMO. Plus, Don Mattrick was a fucking shithead.

The actual market response for several months after launch shows that online did not impact sales. Kinect did yes, and so did the high price.

Not that i care too much (im less interested in why it bombed rather than the fact that it bombed), but your entire OP still more of an opinion piece. There are parts of each of your arguments that have merit and truth to them, but i think the bigger misinformation here is you suggesting people only think the reason the xbox one failed is due to internet policies.

I never said that, but to deny that's not the most common cited reason is dishonest since that's the top of most articles you can search.

I also dont think timed exclusives were what hurt the system. Most people hate timed exclusivity

On gaming forums but the market shows other wise. The market usually doesn't sync with boards.

People always act like MS had no exclusives but in reality it had quite a few good games initially, even more than the PS4. Unfortunately games like Titanfall and Sunset Overdrive suffered bad sales for whatever the reason is people werent buying an xbox one. I jumped in on the xbox one when sunset overdrive was released, knowing halo 5 was soon to come out as well. Later i played Ori and Blind Forest and had my expectations blown out of the water. For those 3 games alone (never played titanfall sadly) my xbox one purchase has been more than justified. And them the Master Chief Collection sealed the deal. Best game i have ever purchased, being a huge Halo fan.

Well TitanFall suffered because still $500 in march was a bad idea. I think that was even echoed by MS but i'll have to double check that.
 
They learned their lesson this gen. Hope that they'll rock the next one like they did with X360. Looking at their advances it's quite possible.

Well they got the studios, they got the power, they just need the price, and they need some kind of unique feature to differentiate themselves from the competition. But this time not a fad gimmick.
 

I remember that. It's funny how some will stick to certain things while ignoring Sony's stance on console crossplay. It's very ironic now looking back how it stayed with Microsoft even though they didn't follow through with it to Sony blocking crossplay and being very arrogant about it but most just shrugged it off.

Well they got the studios, they got the power, they just need the price, and they need some kind of unique feature to differentiate themselves from the competition. But this time not a fad gimmick.

I'm still not convinced the brand will penetrate some regions. They would have to come out with something remarkable to ever be a worldwide brand. Something even Apple took awhile to achieve.
 
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888

Member
Everything about the console was handicapped from the gate. Price. Performance. Kinect. Games. OS.

Besides the controller the OG Xbox was pathetic. The X makes it way better but the OS still sucks.
 

Skyn3t

Banned
X is the shit right now. Hardware-wise Sony is years behind (PS4 Pro cheap feel, hairdryer fans). The Surface division is truly the best among device teams across all electronic devices. Building a beast of a console in 2020, be agressive with exclusives and kachinga, we might have a winner.
 
I remember that. It's funny how some will stick to certain things while ignoring Sony's stance on console crossplay. It's very ironic now looking back how it stayed with Microsoft even though they didn't follow through with it to Sony blocking crossplay and being very arrogant about it but most just shrugged it off.



I'm still not convinced the brand will penetrate some regions. They would have to come out with something remarkable to ever be a worldwide brand. Something even Apple took awhile to achieve.


If the 360 has showed us anything is that they don't need all the regions, at least in victory. Decent numbers in its weaker regions, relatively, will be all that's needed. On paper.
 
If the 360 has showed us anything is that they don't need all the regions, at least in victory. Decent numbers in its weaker regions, relatively, will be all that's needed. On paper.
Japan is not the major player they once were for console sales I agree but Europe has become the great divider.
 
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