DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Wait, you're speaking as if you are not a fanboy with the usage of "them"?
Or is this a self reflection in the third person?
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Dark1x of Digital Foundry says that he noticed a odd trend of a few games starting to perform better on PS4 Pro than Xbox One X
- Thread starter onQ123
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Wait, you're speaking as if you are not a fanboy with the usage of "them"?
Or is this a self reflection in the third person?
TLZ
Banned
What? All I see is praise for the Switch, to the extent it irritates me at times because I feel it's a bit exaggerated
I don't know what Nintendo fanboys are on. But, in my very honest and humble opinion, they're the worst from everything I've seen. Everything is super exaggerated. Common sense be damned and out the window.
If people need consultants for click baits then they're fools. Click bait titles read like they're done by 7 year olds.
Tinfoil hat? Here's the thing - I just post how I want to post and make the content I want to make. Sometimes that backfires but that's how it goes. If you can't trust what I'm saying then it's not worth posting, honestly.
While true, it's usually like this...
If new game runs better on platform X over platform Y, fans of platform Y will scream 'bias' and throw around accusations. The reverse happens as well. Like clockwork.
For me, though, I don't really think platform wars are all that interesting anymore. The current generation has become dull and I'm more interested in how each game is made regardless of platform. I prefer making that sort of content personally.
Shmunter
Member
Well you are an adult. I can’t imagine being caught up in console wars anything but a youngsters hobby.
No disrespect to those that engage in it however, no different to sports fans or fans of anything. That’s what makes one a fan, the passion of it all.
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Bogroll
Likes moldy games
Totally agree with this, much prefer comparing games on Speccy v Amstrad v C64, Amiga v ST and 16 bit consoles. A era when there where lots of differences and how each platform would tackle a Arcade conversion, and of course DF Retro.
A thread from the inventor of the 3tf Xbox One X console (6tf fp16).Comments made in the Anthem thread on the other forum .
We have so many games being better than the Pro,I don't really see a trend. KH3 runs better on the X, the Pro only wins when pushing way less pixels.
RE2 also runs better in gameplay, cutscenes for whatever reason don't but that's hardly something someone would describe as a plus for the Pro. And for Anthem, we know we are looking at old and unoptimized code. We should wait and see what will happen at release.
ANIMAL1975
Member
Your presence here is much appreciated, don't let anyone make you feel otherwise. I'm a newbie on Gaf but a long time lurking veteran lol, so i think i can tell you that a lot of people here think the same. Cheers and keep up the good work!
Again I was explaining that the 6TF number could have been fp16 because new GPUs was going to be using double rate fp16 & we didn't have full context.
But Xbox One X didn't use the newer GPU architecture it's peak TF number was still the fp32 number.
If what I was telling y'all was so wrong why are we getting new PC GPU's with double rate fp16 now?
When the final PS5 & Xbox Next numbers come out we will also have to worry about the context of the numbers because the new consoles will have AI features that use lower precision math.
Gavin Stevens
Formerly 'o'dium'
This is starting to read like a Twilight fan fiction novel...
Where is the fiction?
The fact that you were trying to paint an image where a more expensive, one year later to be released console from Microsoft would have worse specs than the Pro was either dumb or intentionally trolling. There was absolutely no reason to believe at all that 6tf would be fp16.
ethomaz
Banned
?
X GPU has peak 6TFs raw power in FP32 or FP16.
Which reason do you need to believe in facts?
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rəddəM
Member
I love to see what 1P studios do with a U$400 box because sometimes it's about what you can do with what you get, you know?
Then I think about what would a Naughty Dog PC game look like and I really wish Sony invest more in the CPU department even if the box costs U$450/500.
Console CPUs tanked this gen and I can't wait for 60fps to be the norm.
Then I think about what would a Naughty Dog PC game look like and I really wish Sony invest more in the CPU department even if the box costs U$450/500.
Console CPUs tanked this gen and I can't wait for 60fps to be the norm.
Huh? I know the facts, ethomaz
the whole talk about fp16 is stupid right now until someone is able to quantify the benefits of an actual console game and what the gain in performance it has. Until then the discussion is divided between believers and people who prefer actual facts.
thelastword
Banned
Seems you're saying two different things here......Or maybe the confusion comes from the way you worded it or framed it.....In any case, I think the video below adds some perspective.....56 beats 1070ti in many games, it has nothing to do with FP16...
I very much doubt that, maybe more powerful multicore cpu's, certainly not the jaguars.......A good test would be comparing say, a 16 thread ryzen 2700x to a 6 core 12 thread i7 or a 12 thread 2600x to a 4-6 core i5?
There's a CPU scaling pic in the thread and the 4670k, not even the 4690 does better than the Ryzen R5 1400 with 8 threads.....It also seems that all the major intel CPU's with less cores are ahead of Ryzen top end which have more cores and threads.......
Agreed on the first point, though disagree on the rest......PRO and XBONEX are not exactly the same, the configurations and custom work is much more specialized on PRO, so it's just not the API......Does XBONEX have 64 rops? No, Does it have CB hardware and an ID buffer? Does it have numerous specializations to save bandwidth? Does it have CU's with more instructions per CU? NO, and there's more.........So no, it's not just the API, even the way the GPU is structured is different, at least for compatibility in running base PS4 code with a mirrored approach.
I will say though, the custom hardware in PS4.PRO has not been used to it's fullest potential, as only first parties has really been able to leverage it, but if a multiplat dev leads on PS4/PRO or wants to optimize for that console, there's alot he can tinker with, there are Vega features he can utilize and there's GPGPU......People try to deny that such features exists or that anything can be derived from devs going there, but even Ubisoft a multiplat dev has been able to utilize it, codemasters etc.......It will not make PRO more powerful than XBONEX, but if devs have the time to use PRO features, it makes the 1.8 TF differential quite minimal..
I will say however, that I absolutely agree, when you say XBONEX should win if a game is not optimized, which Anthem looks to be, by and large, so maybe DF got the rez count wrong.........NxGamer says the XBONEX version is running at 2160p CB instead of 1800CB, but I guess I'll wait on the master rez counters (Vgtech) to confirm...
And it still fell below 60fps at low......A huge boost in framerate was realized when the game was rendered/played indoors instead of out, which speaks to the CPU load in the outerworld, same exists on PRO, as framerate is boosted significantly at 1080p indoors, even reaching 60fps as well........OTOH, Xbonex falls to 22fps in the NXgamer video outdoors and PRO never did get that low in the DF video, not in the outdoor sections........But I guess, final code will be more revealing and conclusive on all of this...
As for PRO, I will say, had Sony boosted the bandwidth on PRO a bit more, this would be a totally different story, higher bandwidth with those 64 rops would have put XBONEX in a world of hurt, with the very same (36) CU count......Rez would have been higher and framedrops would have been lower, which means higher rez with better perf.........At this point, PRO just can't be fully utilized because of a lack of bandwidth to feed those rops.....Just latent energy or power, it's there, but it needs the lid to be open.........Oh well, at least it's still here doing it's thing regardless, winning faceoffs and the like.....
Gavin Stevens
Formerly 'o'dium'
All you need is a ™ after the brand names, and a link to their site, and you will reach peak fanboy.
Oh 'corridor racer' c0de is back. Long time no see. You want to talk facts, this fact is wrong. It is pushing the same amount of pixels in some of these games which is why we are trying to find out why.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Wait, OP talks about what, 4 games, and some of them push the same amount of Pixels and run consistently better on Pro than on X?
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I didn't even invent that, it was Vroadstar who used it in that way ;-)I remember that "corridor racer" shit.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Agreed as well. DF Retro has been some of my favorite content.
Bogroll
Likes moldy games
I'm not so sure if they are the same resolution, iv'e turned off chromatic aberration on both but sometimes the X looks sharper to me. When you stop moving it seems it takes a moment on Pro to look as sharp as the X, i'm probably wrong but best leave it to the experts for the final game now and it doing my head in switching between them.
Fake
Member
RETRO is the reason for me subscribe the DF channel. I used to just read some df articles and some videos, most of console specs, but my YoutubeTV app now have a exclusive tab for DF Retro videos. Is amazing. Its a shame we could vote for the best retro video of all time because is a massive challenge between Doom Retro and Sillent Hill 2 Retro. Its a powerful source of nostalgia and make me back in time when I used to play Master System/ Mega Drive/n64. I can't just wait for SAGE 2019 video.
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TLZ
Banned
Yeah. He does it nicely and keeps me interested to continue watching. The only other 2 retro gaming channels on YouTube who are like that for me are My Life in Gaming and Game Sack. I'd love to someday somehow see all of them together in a video. It'd be weird, especially Game Sack, but I know it'd be quite fun.
AnotherOne
Member
This thread really delivers,why are you guys still goin on about FP16.. give it a rest it must be tiresome.. last time I checked x has much more games running at 4k than the pro..especially when it comes to first party which we all know they push system hardware.
Just accept X is more powerful and move on..you'll have ps5 in couple years then we can do this power debate all over again, so in the mean time just enjoy the games we have on your preferred console.
Just accept X is more powerful and move on..you'll have ps5 in couple years then we can do this power debate all over again, so in the mean time just enjoy the games we have on your preferred console.
TheAdmiester
Member
Likewise remember when consoles were interesting and had substantial differences rather than being two x86 boxes with slightly different specAnyone remember when you would look on the back of a game case and there would be a screenshot box about 3cmx2cm of different versions of the game and you could see the differences just from that, and now we have to zoom in 500 %
HeresJohnny
Member
Yeah that’s what I find myself thinking most times. I like that someone goes through the work to show the differences, but it also makes me wonder if thinking about all the tech shit distracts from the whole “being entertained” thing that makes us play to begin with.Anyone remember when you would look on the back of a game case and there would be a screenshot box about 3cmx2cm of different versions of the game and you could see the differences just from that, and now we have to zoom in 500 %
Yeah
The price & name wasn't even announced when I was explaining that the numbers could have been fp16 . And I'll say it right now that a cheaper 6TF fp16 Xbox One with higher bandwidth would be selling better than Xbox One X & PS4 Pro.
Gavin Stevens
Formerly 'o'dium'
But a 6tf at 16fp would be just 3tf at 32fp which would be less than the Pro, making it worthl…….. What the fuck is even going on in this thread anymore?
Base PS4 is the one that's selling the most so all MS had to do is make a better Xbox then the base PS4 at a good price point.
Imagine the forums if Microsoft would have released a new Xbox one year after the Pro at 3tf, especially after advertising 4k at E3...
Sure, and launching that with worse specs a year later than the Pro
The thread was already strange but now we are reaching fantasy island.
Sure, and launching that with worse specs a year later than the Pro
The thread was already strange but now we are reaching fantasy island.
Why worry about Pro when the biggest market is base PS4?
longdi
Banned
I dont like Phil Spencer as much. But i always admitted that Xbox1x is a good one, and with the price drop, it is really hammering on PS4Pro door.
There is really nothing to say about how much better Xbox1x hardware is, imo Sony needs to drop the price of PS4Pro, it was always what i expected, PS4Pro should always be $100 cheaper
Granted Xbox1x has the same shitty tablet cpu, i dont think that, or FP16 is causing the performance drops here.
There is really nothing to say about how much better Xbox1x hardware is, imo Sony needs to drop the price of PS4Pro, it was always what i expected, PS4Pro should always be $100 cheaper
Granted Xbox1x has the same shitty tablet cpu, i dont think that, or FP16 is causing the performance drops here.
Because of marketing and mind share, easily two of the biggest problems Microsoft had this gen. They had to make a console which is better than anything Sony can offer and they did. They had the image to sell a console with worse specs for a higher price and wanted to recover from that and they did exactly that. It would have been a farce to release a 3tf console because who wanted to even buy that?
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
True, but they went from a higher priced slower machine to a higher priced faster machine at the same time as the quality difference in games between the two consoles is getting worse and worse and gearing up / promising to fix their issues with the successor to the successor of Xbox One and get more exclusive first party titles...
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bilderberg
Member
You'll never convince me DF isn't anything more than an inside job. What about building 7? The Gulf of Tonkin
HeresJohnny
Member
Yep, when the solution to a problem is another problem, did you really solve anything? Microsoft's insistence on that price point shows a flawed understanding of the hardware market.
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Coulomb_Barrier
Member
True the PS4 and Pro are overpriced right now the former should be $200 or sub that in its twilight years.
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But the X was never made to change the market share drastically. It was made to show that they can build a better product than the One was and they were successful in doing so. The X is still the Xbox One but with way better specs.
Anyway, the idea of making an X with 3tf as said by onQ was and is as wrong as it can get. It would not have solved any of the problems of the One at all.
ethomaz
Banned
I disagree.
Since launch XB1 is not a good hardware, the OS is not ideal, the game delivery is too slow, etc.
X only fix the hardware... you are still in a ecosystem that didn’t appeal gamers.
It is not about mindshare and marketing.
It is about being a product that gamers wish to have to play games.
If you are a gamer what Xbox One add to you? What it has that is indispensable for your gaming life?
XB1 is probably one of the most underdeliverying console of the video game story... it sold more than Wii U on 360 name only because if you compare Wii U delivered a vast better gaming experience than XB1.
Eveything MS did right with 360 they did the opposite with XB1.
It is blow my mind some thinking MS deserved sucess with XB1 when they did nothing to make it a success... the opposite they build it own grave.
ethomaz
Banned
While the ideia of a X at 3TFs is dumb.
A 3TF XB1 or PS4 at $250-299 to replace the actual XB1 S or PS4 Slim could be killer.
Price does matter more than power.
The biggest issue with XB1 hardware was being weaker and expensive... if it was launched at $299 nobody will deny it was a better option than PS4 at $399.
What is game delivery?! Do you mean the point that you always bring to mention with the slow disc install? Because you cannot mean that XBL downloads are slow. Then it sounds that nobody on earth wants to buy an Xbox One because it's so awful but although it's not setting the world on fire, it still sells so I think the OS is not so bad for millions.
And yes, the launch was bad and the years thereafter but that's not the topic of this thread.
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