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[Chairman Tickles]

Not enough games yet to constitute a trend. Could just be really crappy and sloppy ports to the xboner.

 

[meirl]

I'm not sure two Japanese games and a beta constitutes a trend.

Yeah. I mean Japanese games have always been running worse on western platforms compared to Japanese platforms. Nothing new. Not a trend. It is what it is.

 

[dogen]

Decreasing resolution to increase framerate has been a thing in 3D graphics since day 0 though.

I never said it wasn't.

What I'm saying is that it only increases performance as much as the game is GPU limited.

I think everyone here, no matter what their platform of choice, fanboys and girls included that jaguar cpu is awful at this day and age and a major handicap in today’s gaming.

PS2 had 60 fps open world games with detailed, npc filled cities and fast traversal running on a single (main) 300MHz CPU with lower performance per clock than a jaguar. It's really more about priorities.

 

[Sygma]

I mean ... KH 3, Ace Combat 7 and RE 2 alright. Meanwhile 1x has 4k back compatibility and ya know, native 4k RDR 2

s'all good man

 

[Dontero]

PS4 Pro is 8.4TF fp16 that's a fact but I'm not trying to twist it as if PS4 Pro is more power than Xbox One X it's just better at fp16 operations & have more ROPS. but even in these cases it has to be optimized to make sure it's not held back by the memory bandwidth.

Do you even know what FP16 means ? Because as i read it you sound like you don't.
FP16 is half precision of FP32, you can use it for SOME tasks but you can't use it for ALL tasks.

You just can't "8.4TF" fp16 be any valuable metric especially for gaming console.

Whatever you like it or not XboxX has faster CPU and way stronger GPU so the only logical conclusion here is that devs didn't just spend a lot of time with this version or they outsourced job to someone else who wasn't up to task. Budget alone could be limiting factor because they also have to plan for amount of coppies they can reasonably sell.

The other conclussion could be that porting was targeted at slim version not pro where in case of pro they just lazely upressed it and done nothing else.

I think everyone here, no matter what their platform of choice, fanboys and girls included that jaguar cpu is awful at this day and age and a major handicap in today’s gaming.

While it is true it is worthwhile to understand this is THE BEST cpu they could get around that time. There was simply no alternative to it.
Also CPU itself isn't that bad, i had a10 apu for my younger brother (4 core + gpu) and while it was about half the speed of my i5-3570K@4,5ghz it wasn't that slow either. It is just bad cpu when you compare it to top desktop cpus.

Also i think people overestimate how much cpu resources game need especially for consoles.
CPU is kind of easy mode. Games would be incredibly easy to make if you could just skip gpu as CPU could do everything.
Thing is that it is much slower.

 

[Bergoglio]

Just bad optimization

 

[onQ123]

Do you even know what FP16 means ? Because as i read it you sound like you don't.
FP16 is half precision of FP32, you can use it for SOME tasks but you can't use it for ALL tasks.

You just can't "8.4TF" fp16 be any valuable metric especially for gaming console.

Whatever you like it or not XboxX has faster CPU and way stronger GPU so the only logical conclusion here is that devs didn't just spend a lot of time with this version or they outsourced job to someone else who wasn't up to task. Budget alone could be limiting factor because they also have to plan for amount of coppies they can reasonably sell.

The other conclussion could be that porting was targeted at slim version not pro where in case of pro they just lazely upressed it and done nothing else.



While it is true it is worthwhile to understand this is THE BEST cpu they could get around that time. There was simply no alternative to it.
Also CPU itself isn't that bad, i had a10 apu for my younger brother (4 core + gpu) and while it was about half the speed of my i5-3570K@4,5ghz it wasn't that slow either. It is just bad cpu when you compare it to top desktop cpus.

I know exactly what fp16 is and that's why I make sure to mention that the 8.4TF is fp16 & not just say 8.4TF by it's self. the fact is that now that it's becoming more useful on PC & consoles devs will find use for it when they can to get more out of the GPU's that have higher fp16 performance.

 

[octiny]

This thread is cool as long as thelastw...dang, too late.

 

[Shmunter]

I know exactly what fp16 is and that's why I make sure to mention that the 8.4TF is fp16 & not just say 8.4TF by it's self. the fact is that now that it's becoming more useful on PC & consoles devs will find use for it when they can to get more out of the GPU's that have higher fp16 performance.

Not sure why people are getting defensive over exploring this discussion. You’re not saying anything inaccurate or controversial.

The pro gpu can do 2x the operations if the data is half the precision. If a whole gfx engine was half precision it would be twice as performant. In reality no engines are half precision, and some may only have certain parts in fp16 and gain only some efficiency.

The question arises; is fp16 code becoming a bigger part of the landscape as more hardware supports it, and likely next gen will too. A valid talking point based on the thread topic.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

I know exactly what fp16 is and that's why I make sure to mention that the 8.4TF is fp16 & not just say 8.4TF by it's self. the fact is that now that it's becoming more useful on PC & consoles devs will find use for it when they can to get more out of the GPU's that have higher fp16 performance.

There's a reason that everybody laughs about FP16. Its not some super secret mega ultra weapon Sony will flop out one day that will make all your dreams come true. Its quite easy to think about really, but lets dumb it all the way down. FP16 is less the precision of FP32, hence, you can fill more FP16 operations in the same span as a FP32 operation.

So what makes this miracle amazing? Nothing.

For some things, its great. Things that don't need precision, things that end up being "random" by it's very nature. That's great. Maybe you want to create a noise filter for ambient occlusion before blurring? Awesome. But stuff that actually matters, you know, on the rendering side of things that's a heavy hitter, it suddenly changes. You Can essentially do some things well with FP16, but once you get to precise details, it loses its edge. Image your FP16 textures being compressed to hell and all macro blocked due to compression? Imagine your per object blur suddenly creating stochastic ghosting patterns. Essentially you lose all precision, because it just doesn't have it. Now imagine how many things in your game are rendered with some sort of precision, versus how many are rendered with randomness.

And there you go. Essentially, you end up having very little benefit to FP16, and it actually will take more effort to do for those couple of random situations that it will come in handy for, because now you lose all portability with other consoles.

So lets let the dream die in the same dustbin as the cloud, yeah?

 

[Three]

There's a reason that everybody laughs about FP16. Its not some super secret mega ultra weapon Sony will flop out one day that will make all your dreams come true. Its quite easy to think about really, but lets dumb it all the way down. FP16 is less the precision of FP32, hence, you can fill more FP16 operations in the same span as a FP32 operation.

So what makes this miracle amazing? Nothing.

For some things, its great. Things that don't need precision, things that end up being "random" by it's very nature. That's great. Maybe you want to create a noise filter for ambient occlusion before blurring? Awesome. But stuff that actually matters, you know, on the rendering side of things that's a heavy hitter, it suddenly changes. You Can essentially do some things well with FP16, but once you get to precise details, it loses its edge. Image your FP16 textures being compressed to hell and all macro blocked due to compression? Imagine your per object blur suddenly creating stochastic ghosting patterns. Essentially you lose all precision, because it just doesn't have it. Now imagine how many things in your game are rendered with some sort of precision, versus how many are rendered with randomness.

And there you go. Essentially, you end up having very little benefit to FP16, and it actually will take more effort to do for those couple of random situations that it will come in handy for, because now you lose all portability with other consoles.

So lets let the dream die in the same dustbin as the cloud, yeah?

FP16 has nothing to do with randomness. Not sure where you are getting that idea from.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

F16 has nothing to do with randomness. Not sure where you are getting that idea from.

I never said it was. You can use FP16 to render whatever you want, its just not as precise. Meaning that its function in this age is limited, and instead is best used FOR randomness.

 

[lV-426]

The games sell more on ps4 so they take extra time, plus many if not most games have marketing deals with PlayStation so you'll see that from time to time. That and the Pro doesn't have 6Tflops but it's a more advanced GPU. Rapid packed math for one, makes a noticeable difference if applied. Pro can do 8.4 Tflop at 16 bit precision. It's not nothing, as some would like to say.

 

[onQ123]

Not sure why people are getting defensive over exploring this discussion. You’re not saying anything inaccurate or controversial.

The pro gpu can do 2x the operations if the data is half the precision. If a whole gfx engine was half precision it would be twice as performant. In reality no engines are half precision, and some may only have certain parts in fp16 and gain only some efficiency.

The question arises; is fp16 code becoming a bigger part of the landscape as more hardware supports it, and likely next gen will too. A valid talking point based on the thread topic.

Yep but somehow people who don't have a clue what they are talking about would rather dismiss it & make silly comments to deflect from the subject.

 

[ANIMAL1975]

Obviously some third party developers not fully utilizing the extra performance on X, but some are like Rockstar or Even ubisoft with division or ghost recon are good examples.

Absolutely no reason why a game on pro should perform better and I swear if someone mentions fp16 sauce...I hope your ps4 dies.

Fp8+8 sauce?

 

[Caayn]

I wouldn't consider the sample set where this occurs to be large enough to draw any real conclusions from but it's an interesting phenomenon. However, isn't this mostly just (minor) performance differences though? My best guess is that this mostly boils down to the marketshare differences and developers having different graphical targets for the machines which results in the situation we see with these games.

 

[Three]

I never said it was. You can use FP16 to render whatever you want, its just not as precise. Meaning that its function in this age is limited, and instead is best used FOR randomness.

Well that is the very definition of Fp16 but what makes you think it's best used for randomness? Care to elaborate on that?

If by randomness you simply mean BRDF vector calculations how does that not offer some gains for every PBR based game out there if the developer puts in the effort?

 

[Allandor]

guys, forget that fp16 shit it is really not that great and is not twice as fast, because there are other things that influence the fp16 speed as well. You can just save a little bit of bandwidth and performance with this, but not really much.
if it would double the performance we had not seen any lower resolution.
it is much simpler. The xbox x has the higher resolution. A little bit to high for the build. They should optimize the code a bit more or lower the resolution until it runs flawless.
Also many devs still don't use the higher memory capacity of the x, else there would be a higher texture difference between pro and x

 

[Gavin Stevens]

Well that is the very definition of Fp16 but what makes you think it's best used for randomness? Care to elaborate on that?

If by randomness you simply mean BRDF vector calculations how does that not offer some gains for every PBR based game out there if the developer puts in the effort?

You're not thinking along the lines of what looks best, which is 9 times out of 10 what developers will shoot for. FP16 will, of course, render everything you need in a game. However floating point operations at such a low level will only do so much, and thus the game will look worse of for it. In theory, FP16, when combined with FP32, is best used for things where precision isn't a factor, and in this case, random floating point operations are of course a better use of the idea.

This this as by no means a decent comparison, but its best I can find on a quick search. Using old art work wont show the effect off at all, really, but it does still show it. Look for the specular highlights at the bottom of the page:

https://www.hwupgrade.it/articoli/skvideo/1013/radeon-x800-e-il-momento-di-r420_15.html

 

[onQ123]

Just bad optimization

You don't find that to be strange in a case like this where Xbox One X is more brute force & it's the PS4 Pro that need to be optimized?

 

[mekes]

Probably just teething problems and the fact that PS4 is the primary build for these devs. Much the same as when PS4 would have those blurry ground textures near the consoles launch, yet the weaker Xbox would not have the issue.

 

[Toe-Knee]

Aren't some of the games like anthem checkerboard on both? So the pro would have an advantage due it having hardware specifically for the reconstruction.

 

[michaelius]

Next gen consoles are going to be Navi (at least we know it for PS5) and since Navi most likely has FP16 it's possible that companies start utilising it more.

Still It shouldn't be more than 10-20% gain.

Also while the ratio of X sold to base One is probably lot higher than Pro to PS4 in absolute numbers it's very likely that PS4 Pro outsolds X so it makes more sense to put more resources into more popular machine.

 

[ANIMAL1975]

I think more games are needed to consider this a trend, and Hanthem final build of course.

 

[Three]

You're not thinking along the lines of what looks best, which is 9 times out of 10 what developers will shoot for. FP16 will, of course, render everything you need in a game. However floating point operations at such a low level will only do so much, and thus the game will look worse of for it. In theory, FP16, when combined with FP32, is best used for things where precision isn't a factor, and in this case, random floating point operations are of course a better use of the idea.

This this as by no means a decent comparison, but its best I can find on a quick search. Using old art work wont show the effect off at all, really, but it does still show it. Look for the specular highlights at the bottom of the page:

https://www.hwupgrade.it/articoli/skvideo/1013/radeon-x800-e-il-momento-di-r420_15.html

I see nothing mentioned about randomness being a good candidate there. You say it isn't well suited for today but that article you link shows that there is a massive performance hit for fp32. FP16 isn't some magic bullet but there is a shift to support rapid packed math more than ever today. New PC graphics cards have only started supporting it in the last 2 years or so. You are saying that there is no place for it in games today other than randomness but I think that is completely wrong. It can be used everywhere. cloth and hair physics, shaders (shader model 6.2) , and AI. If you want some actual examples of use:

https://gpuopen.com/first-steps-implementing-fp16/

A 10% performance gain is nothing to scoff at.

 

[Toe-Knee]

It would be interesting if they could do it on a game by game basis.

Like when you put an “enhanced” game in a me u would pop saying

Do you like Graphics?
Frame rate?
Or Balanced?

And it remembered your settings on a game by game basis.

That's how most pro patched games are set up. First party especially

 

[Virex]

What’s the beef with the fp16?

He's a fanboy. Don't get into any argument with a fanboy. You are bound to be taken down a path of idiocy. I love games so I don't get the console war at all.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

I see nothing mentioned about randomness being a good candidate there. You say it isn't well suited for today but that article you link shows that there is a massive performance hit for fp32. FP16 isn't some magic bullet but there is a shift to support rapid packed math more than ever today. New PC graphics cards have only started supporting it in the last 2 years or so. You are saying that there is no place for it in games today other than randomness but I think that is completely wrong. It can be used everywhere. cloth and hair physics, shaders (shader model 6.2) , and AI. If you want some actual examples of use:

https://gpuopen.com/first-steps-implementing-fp16/

A 10% performance gain is nothing to scoff at.

I literally just said I couldn’t find what I was after but the pictures were correct.

I’m giving up all hope for those who can’t read or even understand the basics of this tech. A 10% increase on things that you can’t actually get many gains from anyway isn’t exactly worth the overall cost factor it would take to create and test different operations for different machines. You would be looking at, in real world performance terms in a real world setting, a <1fps gain.

Source: Actually having used, tested and worked with this in a realistic setting.

But let’s keep jumping through hoops about theoreticals etc,

 

[Dibils2k]

i still expect final game to run better...

 

[ethomaz]

Waiting for the graphs that show

PS4 Pro fp16 = 8.4 fp32= 4.2

X One Xfp16= N/A fp32= 6.0

Just to really top this one off.

X actually runs FP16 at same speed than FF32... it is 6TFs for both.

This is the only correct answer.

But he is talking about western devs too.

 

[Three]

I literally just said I couldn’t find what I was after but the pictures were correct.

I’m giving up all hope for those who can’t read or even understand the basics of this tech. A 10% increase on things that you can’t actually get many gains from anyway isn’t exactly worth the overall cost factor it would take to create and test different operations for different machines. You would be looking at, in real world performance terms in a real world setting, a <1fps gain.

Source: Actually having used, tested and worked with this in a realistic setting.

But let’s keep jumping through hoops about theoreticals etc,

The picture of the texture? Yeah I didn't say it was incorrect thought that is not macroblocking and more banding. Don't say I didn't read it because I did. Do not appeal to authority too, if you work with this in a realistic setting then you can show your findings. Some benchmark, or some example and contribute, not insult others reading skills. What exactly did I fail to read?

 

[Gavin Stevens]

Actually, it is a form of macroblocking, though the phrase isn’t right. Banding will occurr but also compression-like artifacts, due to the precision being lower.

Also why would I provide benchmarks? I’ve wasted my time enough here. What I’m saying mirrors what everybody else who has worked with them has said, including digital fo........ oh wait now I see the issue.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

There's a reason that everybody laughs about FP16. Its not some super secret mega ultra weapon Sony will flop out one day that will make all your dreams come true. Its quite easy to think about really, but lets dumb it all the way down. FP16 is less the precision of FP32, hence, you can fill more FP16 operations in the same span as a FP32 operation.

So what makes this miracle amazing? Nothing.

For some things, its great. Things that don't need precision, things that end up being "random" by it's very nature. That's great. Maybe you want to create a noise filter for ambient occlusion before blurring? Awesome. But stuff that actually matters, you know, on the rendering side of things that's a heavy hitter, it suddenly changes. You Can essentially do some things well with FP16, but once you get to precise details, it loses its edge. Image your FP16 textures being compressed to hell and all macro blocked due to compression? Imagine your per object blur suddenly creating stochastic ghosting patterns. Essentially you lose all precision, because it just doesn't have it. Now imagine how many things in your game are rendered with some sort of precision, versus how many are rendered with randomness.

And there you go. Essentially, you end up having very little benefit to FP16, and it actually will take more effort to do for those couple of random situations that it will come in handy for, because now you lose all portability with other consoles.

So lets let the dream die in the same dustbin as the cloud, yeah?

I think you're not giving FP16 enough credit, while it certainly won't double the performance (unless you want to build an ugly game, because this is what will happen if you half the precision of all your shader compute calculations, you lose way more than half the information)... but contrary to the cloud, even now there are specific use cases that - if implemented - will boost performance, now we don't know that this explains a boost of 5 or 15%... or that the games that do not perform as expected on the X do because the ports were poorly handled (I think it has to be neglect for the platform, as it is less popular, and it won't grow much, since this is the end of the generation, unlike the PS3 at the of of the previous gen, the xbox has no momentum going for it compared to their main competitor).

There are many factors, I think fp16 can be one, but probably not enough to explain (I mean, the X still has a slightly faster CPU, a much faster GPU, much more memory bandwidth) and since ps is the leading platform, the more popular one, when you develop an engine or a specific game going for those "random" cases where it can be used will be done by some team, and it will show.

 

[thelastword]

I think there's more than enough evidence showing that's it's not just 3 games, where PRO has better perf over XBONEX...People are now pretending like this has only happened in the last few PRO vs XBONEX faceoffs......There's so much Vgtech data out there, with actual stats, there's no need to be disingenuous about it.....It seems like I've been saying another game where PRO offers better perf for quite a while now.........

Also better perf is better perf, Phil Spencer agrees, even if we have to use the OS feature......Yet, people are pretending that the PRO have only beaten XBONEX at 1080p settings, this is not true......Still the fact remains....The XBONEX is not as powerful as people thought it was, the hype fooled many...True 4k? Here, lately, it is doing Checkerboard like it owns it......A far cry really......What some of you Xfans need to do is to tweet Phil and let him know that you guys value perf over some 4k rez stamp...It makes no sense to push 4k or high rez, when your framerate tanks, fluidity and controller response always wins....

It's funny though seeing Leadbetter try to minimize the 1080p OS feature of PRO, saying it should be in-game...So if the devs never patches a game or offer a high framerate mode, we would be totally left at their mercy....At least the PRO's OS gives us the option, so give some praise to that instead of deflecting.....These guys are pretending that they can mandate what devs do, some devs gave various options like TR and others, many devs don't, you get one mode go, that's the reality...The PS4PRO OS features gives us a nice option to play with better perf, which is a godsend......Anthem at 1080p is clearly the way to go...Depend on a dev's patch, when? when people no longer play this online.......What about RDR2, PRO owners should just wait on a fixed checkerboard patch? When will it come? when I decide I will never play this game again because of input latency and a myriad of issues? Hell, even in that game, the only place you get 30fps locked is on PRO and the XBONEX falls to lower minimums over the PRO in the 4k mode (according to Vgtech)......Chasing 4k and higher rez is the XBONEX achilles heel, but when you hype a rez so much, you have to put pressure on the devs to comply......

Yet, what's strangest in all of this, is why all the hoopla now," because the most powerful, true 4k XBOX is losing faceoffs"...So much deflecting when PRO wins, oh PRO got more optimization over XBOX, really? PRO is just a more customized piece of hardware, do you believe if PRO does CB and XBONEX does CB, XBONEX won't have to pull more resources to do CB over PRO? Not all games are the same obviously and whilst some games will use XBONEX bandwidth and you will see the results and that divide in rez, others will not shine so much, if the game is using some PRO features, things can be a bit different.........Now lets get this straight, I agree that XBONEX is more powerful kit, but the divide is not as big as some people think, yet, each console has it's strength.....

Still, the hypocrisy baffles me, I see those DF guys so animated and disappointed everytime XBONEX losees a faceoff......Yet I never saw that level of disappointment when PS4 got the short end of the stick over XBONE, which funny enough can barely do 720p these days, whilst PS4 holds it's own, but back then, I never saw DF wage fire when Witcher 3 performed better on XBOX, when Resident Evil Revelation 2 performed worse on PS4 by 20fps, when Unity and others Ubisoft games were at the same rez as XBOX and performed worse.......They just fan that fire, giving so many incorrect takes on CPU bound issues with PS4.......So what's up with XBONES's cpu over PS4 now? All I'm hearing in so many faceoffs is; "I expect more from XBOX", just looping over the entire faceoff, Look at Ace combat......or in other faceoffs where XBONEX has worse framerate, some of these guys still expect higher resolutions when the XBOX is already dropping perf, just hilarious stuff.....What's good for the goose is good for the gander, is all I'm saying...

 

[Gavin Stevens]

Oh look out, Voldemort’s here.

 

[Insane Metal]

No more!

LOL

 

[Fake]

No more!

wtf

 

[Three]

Actually, it is a form of macroblocking, though the phrase isn’t right. Banding will occurr but also compression-like artifacts, due to the precision being lower.

Also why would I provide benchmarks? I’ve wasted my time enough here. What I’m saying mirrors what everybody else who has worked with them has said, including digital fo........ oh wait now I see the issue.

Why waste your time here in the first place then when you claim that it only helps in randomness when clearly that's not the case? Why not actually show something worthwhile when asked about that claim? Not sure I get the DF reference either. Are you Richard? Has anyone claimed it only improves performance on randomness?

 

[RoboFu]

Wow what a thread !

- no fp16 isn’t magic and doesn’t replace any graphical fp32 uses. At best you could use it for something small like lod distance calculations but even that isn’t going to gain you anything in performance gains.

- DF’s main purpose is to make thier parent company money. They get the same YouTube consultants as anyone else who tell their parent company that they need these click bait titles , to go for controversy, and play to their viewers. So of course they are going to play up the ps4 “ performance “ advantage on a few titles even though they have lower settings and they didn’t play up the Xbox when the base Xbox had a string of lower settings but better performance games.

The thing to remember is that the guys doing the videos are not the guys making the decisions of what is shown and how it shown. It’s an array of higher ups , number crunchers , and shitty consultants.

 

[Yoda]

In order of install-base, devs prioritize: PS4 -> Xbox One -> PS4 Pro -> Xbox One X. I suspect the X gets the least amount of attention (if any) when it comes to getting the most out of the hardware.

 

[dark10x]

Ya know what really sucks? Extremely fanboys thinking you hate their preferred platform. Xbox fans think we hate Xbox, PS4 fanatics (ie - thelastword) think we hate PS4 and Nintendo fans think we're too hard on Switch. Don't get me started on the shit we get from AMD fans. Ya'll are crazy and make things a lot less pleasant than they should be.

Also, I understand people get attached to companies and plastic boxes, I've been there in the past but it's worth trying to get past it and embrace everything. Learn to love them all. I certainly do now.

- DF’s main purpose is to make thier parent company money. They get the same YouTube consultants as anyone else who tell their parent company that they need these click bait titles , to go for controversy, and play to their viewers. So of course they are going to play up the ps4 “ performance “ advantage on a few titles even though they have lower settings and they didn’t play up the Xbox when the base Xbox had a string of lower settings but better performance games.

This is 100% false, by the way.

The thing to remember is that the guys doing the videos are not the guys making the decisions of what is shown and how it shown.

So is this. Like, holy shit.

Every video I make is made in isolation from my house. What's said is what I wrote - nobody is deciding what's in there but me.

If higher-ups ever tried to do this, I'd leave in a second. That I get to basically make whatever I want is one of the things I enjoy most. The situation you describe would be HORRIBLE.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I think everyone here, no matter what their platform of choice, fanboys and girls included that jaguar cpu is awful at this day and age and a major handicap in today’s gaming.

It could be better, but ask those developers if they would like the old PPC Cores in the older consoles back... especially in the PS4 Pro and Xbox One X the clockspeed is now pretty decent and these processors are a lot more surprises free compared with the warts and oddities of the old PPU and PPX cores.

It could be faster, but it is not shitty. If they could have clocked it at 2.5 GHz or something close st launch you would have seen developers singing a different tune.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Wow what a thread !

- no fp16 isn’t magic and doesn’t replace any graphical fp32 uses. At best you could use it for something small like lod distance calculations but even that isn’t going to gain you anything in performance gains.

Trying, perhaps, to fight the windmill of the perception that people stop yelling Scorpio!Beast! due to the magic wonder dust of FP16 double rate processing I think we are going overboard trying to dismiss it... Nobody said it is magic, nobody said it destroys the gap between the consoles, but to say that it is worthless is odd to say the least.

- DF’s main purpose is to make thier parent company money. They get the same YouTube consultants as anyone else who tell their parent company that they need these click bait titles , to go for controversy, and play to their viewers. So of course they are going to play up the ps4 “ performance “ advantage on a few titles even though they have lower settings and they didn’t play up the Xbox when the base Xbox had a string of lower settings but better performance games.

The thing to remember is that the guys doing the videos are not the guys making the decisions of what is shown and how it shown. It’s an array of higher ups , number crunchers , and shitty consultants.

What are you talking about? Where are you getting this conspiracy from when PS4 is not in a nasty light? I think you are projecting unwarranted bias into DF and that is quite uncalled for.

 

[ethomaz]

Wow what a thread !

- no fp16 isn’t magic and doesn’t replace any graphical fp32 uses. At best you could use it for something small like lod distance calculations but even that isn’t going to gain you anything in performance gains.

You know the only reason RTX 2060, Vega 56 and Vega 64 performs better than GTX 1070TI in FarCry 5 is FP16, no? Every other game has at least GTX 2060 and Vega 56 below GTX 1070TI.

That alone make your claim false. Wait more games using FP16 to compare performance running in Vega or RTX.

The only reason devs didn’t invest in FP16 optimizations was because the market leader didn’t have this option until the recent launched Turing (RTX).

Now games will start to show a discrepancy between the cards with normal FP16 vs double rate FP16.

That not even related to Pro x XB1 X but more overall PC gaming development future... all future games will aim FP16 optimizations for better performance.

There is no magic... it is just logical math... it is weird some here downplaying something that devs are actually researching to improve overall performance in games for the new cards from nVidia and AMD.

Even gaming engines like Unreal Engine is optimizating for use FP16 and delivery better performance.

 

[RoboFu]

Ya know what really sucks? Extremely fanboys thinking you hate their preferred platform. Xbox fans think we hate Xbox, PS4 fanatics (ie - thelastword) think we hate PS4 and Nintendo fans think we're too hard on Switch. Don't get me started on the shit we get from AMD fans. Ya'll are crazy and make things a lot less pleasant than they should be.

Also, I understand people get attached to companies and plastic boxes, I've been there in the past but it's worth trying to get past it and embrace everything. Learn to love them all. I certainly do now.


This is 100% false, by the way.


So is this. Like, holy shit.

Every video I make is made in isolation from my house. What's said is what I wrote - nobody is deciding what's in there but me.

If higher-ups ever tried to do this, I'd leave in a second. That I get to basically make whatever I want is one of the things I enjoy most. The situation you describe would be HORRIBLE.

So you are saying there are no consultants involved and that you come up with the YouTube titles?

 

[dark10x]

So you are saying there are no consultants involved and that you come up with the YouTube titles?

I'm absolutely saying that, yes.

I write, edit, capture and produce my own videos - when I make a video, it's 100% my own production. The titles are either written by myself or by Richard (who's the head of DF). No external groups or people are involved in what we produce. It's just the four of us.

No external forces influence us and, again, everything in each of our videos is crafted on our own without additional input from other team members (unless it's a double voice over video in which case it features non-scripted, off the cuff discussion).

Where on earth did you get the idea that anyone outside of DF has anything to do with our content?

 

[ethomaz]

So you are saying there are no consultants involved and that you come up with the YouTube titles?

What is wrong with YT titles? C’mon.

 

[Three]

You know the only reason RTX 2060, Vega 56 and Vega 64 performs better than GTX 1070TI in FarCry 5 is FP16, no? Every other game has at least GTX 2060 and Vega 56 below GTX 1070TI.

That alone make your claim false. Wait more games using FP16 to compare performance running in Vega or RTX.

But you will get less than a 1fps boost I was told so it wouldn't even show on a fps benchmark. I was told to believe that without any actual data but they work on this 'in the realistic setting' so I came to accept it. He was far too busy with the realworld to provide some benchmarks or information. Who do I believe!?

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Wow what a thread !

- no fp16 isn’t magic and doesn’t replace any graphical fp32 uses. At best you could use it for something small like lod distance calculations but even that isn’t going to gain you anything in performance gains.

- DF’s main purpose is to make thier parent company money. They get the same YouTube consultants as anyone else who tell their parent company that they need these click bait titles , to go for controversy, and play to their viewers. So of course they are going to play up the ps4 “ performance “ advantage on a few titles even though they have lower settings and they didn’t play up the Xbox when the base Xbox had a string of lower settings but better performance games.

The thing to remember is that the guys doing the videos are not the guys making the decisions of what is shown and how it shown. It’s an array of higher ups , number crunchers , and shitty consultants.

I agree with you on the Youtube content consultants, these people are killing the thing that made the platform interesting to begin with (thankfully some people don't follow their advice). But I don't think that they are deciding that goes in and does not go in the video in details it's too much and if you ever worked with consultants you'd know that they don't go in details like that. They give them directions for video titles, push them to stir controversy since shocked people are more engaged, etc. and the guys at DF follow their advice because they want to put bread on the table, while doing something they apparently really are passionate about.

Where I strongly disagree is the factual claim that the xbox one had a string of titles where it performed better with higher settings than the PS4 on some titles, the only ones I can remember were those infamous UbiSoft games where they had some backroom deal with MS for "parity" - tho I'm not sure this is what you meant - but what I recall are titles where the xbox had both lower resolution, lower (or equal) setting and either similar or slightly lower frame rate, unless the only setting that counts is Anisotropic Filtering.

 

[dark10x]

I agree with you on the Youtube content consultants, these people are killing the thing that made the platform interesting to begin with (thankfully some people don't follow their advice). But I don't think that they are deciding that goes in and does not go in the video in details it's too much and if you ever worked with consultants you'd know that they don't go in details like that. They give them directions for video titles, push them to stir controversy since shocked people are more engaged, etc. and the guys at DF follow their advice because they want to put bread on the table, while doing something they apparently really are passionate about.

...but we've never talked to any consultants, that's the thing. We've never used them before and have no plans to.