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[Gamer79]

I hear people saying latency is a major issue and got to say it's overly exaggerated here. The Nvidia shield tv has their geforce now service and works exactly like Stadia. I play current racers, shooters, and every modern day game under the sun and rarely ever notice lag.

My internet connnection is not some freak of nature. I use a powerline adapter kit setup from my modem and get a connection of about 110mbps down and 12mbps up. Nvida's geforce now works and shows that cloud gaming appears to be the future.

 

[Shifty1897]

I agree. Love it or hate it, 10 years from now the only non streaming consoleS left will be handhelds and PC.

 

[ethomaz]

Well PS Now works since 2014.

That doesn’t means it is a great gaming experience.

 

[jshackles]

also PS Now has games like Killzone, Bioshock, Mortal Kombat and they do a pretty decent job.

In the end, this is going to come down to the individual's internet connection - how fast it is, how latent it is, how large their data cap is. For those of us with fast, low-latency, uncapped internet Stadia will probably be a pretty pleasant experience.

 

[kaczmar]

I agree. Love it or hate it, 10 years from now the only non streaming consoleS left will be handhelds and PC.

Good luck with that. If streaming takes off, Dedicated gaming PC's will be a thing of the past just be like VCR's.

 

[GrayFoxRJ]

Where I live, having 100 mb plan is like being under less than 1% of the connections of the country. And it is expensive.

 

[cryptoadam]

Lets keep in mind where we were 10/20 years ago.

I remember the days of 56K, then 1MB internet. 10 Gig Limits. etc...

Internet is not going to be the same 10 years from now.

10 years ago it would take me hours to download a movie, now I can stream the whole thing in 1080P in an instant.

 

[DigitalScrap]

Well PS Now works since 2014.

That doesn’t means it is a great gaming experience.

At launch though, PS Now was nowhere near where it is now. I tried it right away, and it was a terrible experience. I had even jumped on the one year deal like an idiot (as many of us here did).

My Nvidia Shield using GeForce Now actually performs great - they have really come a long way with it.

Also, I was part of the beta test for Google streaming with Assassin’s Creed, and it actually performed really well.

My internet is good, but not amazing I average about 180mbps.

 

[Jagz]

Same here, using Shield TV and the Geforce Now free beta, it just works.

It's a good replacement for console gaming with a controller, but it won't replace traditional desk-based PC gaming.

 

[ethomaz]

At launch though, PS Now was nowhere near where it is now. I tried it right away, and it was a terrible experience. I had even jumped on the one year deal like an idiot (as many of us here did).

My Nvidia Shield using GeForce Now actually performs great - they have really come a long way with it.

Also, I was part of the beta test for Google streaming with Assassin’s Creed, and it actually performed really well.

My internet is good, but not amazing I average about 180mbps.

Well I said it is not a great gaming experience in neither.

Your internet is top tier... so your experience even doesn’t being great is better than 90% of the users.

 

[DigitalScrap]

Well I said it is not a great gaming experience in neither.

Your internet is top tier... sorry.

I know, I was saying that PS Now actually has improved a lot since it launched. It isn’t as good as Nvidia’s implementation, but it isn’t horrible any longer (although I no longer subscribe to PS Now).

Yeah, I know that for a lot of people who don’t live in or near major cities, their internet will not allow them to have a good experience. I also pay extra to not have a data cap, so there’s that as well.

 

[jshackles]

Lets keep in mind where we were 10/20 years ago.

I remember the days of 56K, then 1MB internet. 10 Gig Limits. etc...

Internet is not going to be the same 10 years from now.

10 years ago it would take me hours to download a movie, now I can stream the whole thing in 1080P in an instant.

10 years from now we will probably all (globally) have access to the thousands of VLEO satellites that SpaceX is launching to bring Starlink online. Existing oligopolies like Comcast and Spectrum will be forced to lower costs and increase speeds to stay commercially viable. Internet access around the world will be cheaper, faster, and more reliable than ever before. Anti-consumer practices like data caps should theoretically become a thing of the past.

 

[Jagz]

Good luck with that. If streaming takes off, Dedicated gaming PC's will be a thing of the past just be like VCR's.

Consoles may become a thing of the past if Sony/MS/etc see fit, but companies like AMD, nVidia, Intel, etc, will always continue to manufacture chips and components for use in PC and servers, so gaming PC's will always inadvertently exist.

 

[Shifty1897]

Good luck with that. If streaming takes off, Dedicated gaming PC's will be a thing of the past just be like VCR's.

I think PC's will stick around. Enthusiasts want their processing power local as a point of pride, and it's easier for NVIDIA to sell a video card because applications other than gaming a PC can use the GPU, like video editing or CAD. I think people who don't have a stable internet connection will have to go PC when console companies leave them behind to go streaming after the next console generation. Granted, this is at least 10 years off so who knows.

 

[kaczmar]

Consoles may become a thing of the past if Sony/MS/etc see fit, but companies like AMD, nVidia, Intel, etc, will always continue to manufacture chips and components for use in PC and servers, so gaming PC's will always inadvertently exist.

I think PC's will stick around. Enthusiasts want their processing power local as a point of pride, and it's easier for NVIDIA to sell a video card because applications other than gaming a PC can use the GPU, like video editing or CAD. I think people who don't have a stable internet connection will have to go PC when console companies leave them behind to go streaming after the next console generation. Granted, this is at least 10 years off so who knows.

Of course PC's will be around. That wasn't my point. If streaming become viable enough as a format, publisher won't release on anything but on streaming platforms. If I can theoretically play in 4K @ 60 fps on any device through a streaming connection without lag or performance issues, I will no doubt spending my money on something else. Gaming PC's will become legacy dinosaurs, just like consoles. Retro PC gamers will be a thing just like retro console gamers.

 

[DanielsM]

Guys, you're going to get latency, nvidia nor anyone else has the ability to go above the speed of light, you will get latency even streaming on your own network. Some will find it acceptable, I find PS Remote Play acceptable for single player games in a pinch, but for the most part none of this is cheaper or a better experience than native playing for most people that game frequently. Worse yet, not sure there is a sustainable business model.

PC gaming was declared dead many times over the last 15 years, than it was consoles were dead. Native playing isn't going anywhere but companies will continue to try and wish it away. There really isn't anything gained by basing gaming in the cloud, not really for the end user, generally speaking.

March 24, 2009 -> Yes, 10 years ago this week.

Will OnLive Kill the Video Game Console?

http://www.businesspundit.com/will-onlive-kill-the-video-game-console/

Going on 6 years ago.

How Apple Will Kill Gaming Consoles

https://variety.com/2013/biz/news/how-apple-will-kill-gaming-consoles-1200571398/

Going on 18 years ago.

Are PC games dead?

https://money.cnn.com/2001/05/17/technology/gaming_pcdead/

7 years ago.

Could Cloud Gaming Kill The Next-Generation Video Game Console?

https://techcrunch.com/2012/07/07/cloud-gaming-xbox-720-ps4-game-console/


They're serious now, Nvidia is involved.... 7 years ago.

NVIDIA GeForce Grid: Killing off Game Consoles?

http://www.moorinsightsstrategy.com/nvidia-geforce-grid-killing-off-game-consoles/

2012 is the future.

Cloud gaming is the future

https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/129440-cloud-gaming-is-the-future

Their future stopped somewhere in bankruptcy court.
8 years ago article

OnLive – The Future of Gaming?

http://www.ztgd.com/articles/onlive-the-future-of-gaming/


Its so futuristic, Microsoft is doing it soon, they went back to the future in 2011.... most people don't even know they cancelled the original program back 2012.

Microsoft recruiting former OnLive staff.

https://kotaku.com/microsoft-wants-to-stream-console-games-to-phones-turn-5915340
https://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/microsoft-snatches-up-former-onlive-staff/
http://gamenws.com/1282/microsoft-launches-its-streaming-service-game/

Then they brought it back to life.
This was going on 6 years ago.

Microsoft is building its own cloud gaming service. Company officials demonstrated a prototype of the service during an internal company meeting today. Sources familiar with the meeting revealed to The Verge that Microsoft demonstrated Halo 4 running on a Windows Phone and PC, both streaming the game from the cloud.

https://www.theverge.com/2013/9/26/...alo-4-streaming-from-the-cloud-to-windows-and

 

[jshackles]

For people worried about latency, you can check your connection's latency to the nearest Google data center using tools like this one

http://www.gcping.com/

I've got 40ms round-trip latency to my nearest, for example. That's about 1/25th of a second. For comparison, a lot of mid-range Samsung TVs have between 10-25ms response time and that's largely considered okay by most people, even when compounded with other input latency causing issues such as wireless controllers and such.

It really just comes down to how well your internet connection performs.

 

[Ivellios]

I agree. Love it or hate it, 10 years from now the only non streaming consoleS left will be handhelds and PC.

Guess when that happens, i just go full PC gaming.

For people worried about latency, you can check your connection's latency to the nearest Google data center using tools like this one

http://www.gcping.com/

I've got 40ms round-trip latency to my nearest, for example. That's about 1/25th of a second. For comparison, a lot of mid-range Samsung TVs have between 10-25ms response time and that's largely considered okay by most people, even when compounded with other input latency causing issues such as wireless controllers and such.

It really just comes down to how well your internet connection performs.

Mine is 19ms.

Would i still have significant latency with this?

 

[DanielsM]

Guess when that happens, i just go full PC gaming.

Mine is 19ms.

Would i still have significant latency with this?

19ms to where?

 

[octiny]

For people worried about latency, you can check your connection's latency to the nearest Google data center using tools like this one

http://www.gcping.com/

I've got 40ms round-trip latency to my nearest, for example.

13ms via Los Angeles Google data center for me via wifi, though I'm only about an hour away from their LA data center with 1 gbps down/up fiber which is why (only about 350/500 mbps down/up on 5ghz wifi though).

Tried my hand via beta on Geforce Now awhile back like the OP & it was great. So definitely looking to testing out some of this stuff coming out via Google & MS later this year.

 

[AndrewRyan]

I steam from my PC to the Nvidia Shield at home and while it's better than nothing it's not great for action games. It's fine for puzzle games or anything that doesn't require timing.

 

[DanielsM]

13ms via Los Angeles data center for me, though I'm only about an hour away from their LA data center with 1 gbps fiber which is why

Tried my hand via beta on Geforce Now awhile back like the OP & it was great. So definitely looking to testing out some of this stuff coming out via Google & MS later this year.

Where is the list of their datacenters if you mind me asking. IPs.

 

[Ivellios]

19ms to where?

The city of São Paulo, which is a city very near where i live

It is in Brazil by the way.

 

[octiny]

Where is the list of their datacenters if you mind me asking.

It's in the post I quoted.

 

[DanielsM]

It's in the post I quoted.

That's pretty good, my first hop outside my router I'm at 20s. Around 40-50 to the closest data center, Azure I'm in the 40-60ms, and that's just a ping of their first interface and no processing. But this is just ping packets, not traffic. I can shave some off by going wired but not much.

At 15-20ms and if you don't get spikes, than processing on the distant end, you're just talking pinging the first interface... my guess you're doing much better than most but probably 2-3 frames behind.

http://www.azurespeed.com/

I posted azure earlier, I manually ping and its slightly better. 40-60ms with huge spikes sometimes up a few hundred ms.

Let's put this in perspective, Switch Fortnite users are no longer being grouped with PS4/X1 users because of 30 frames a second vs. 60 frames a second, even your best case you probably even or 1-2 frames behind Switch users, assuming the video decompressing is not factored in.

 

[MDSLKTR]

Toddhoward.gif

 

[octiny]

I can shave some off by going wired but not much.

Same, I did via laptop wifi (chromebook). I suppose wired would shave off an average of 3-5 ms, going by the speedtest.net (via LA as well) runs I've ran in the past 2ms vs 6-7ms.

 

[DanielsM]

Same, I did via laptop wifi (chromebook). I suppose wired would shave off an average of 3-5 ms, going by the speedtest.net (via LA as well) runs I've ran in the past 2ms vs 6-7ms.

Yeah but you're just pinging to your ISP there right? (also this is just a ping packet, and no process) But if you are getting that low of latency, that's pretty low.

http://www.azurespeed.com/

What do you get here? Pick closest ones.

(alright I got to go bed, nice talking to you) You have hellva good latency.

 

[A.Romero]

I've had a Shield TV for almost a yer, a few months back tried GeForce Now and was impressed by the performance. I mean, it is better than expected but not as good as playing natively.

I tried Witcher 3, Darsiders 2 and Max Payne 3 from my Steam Library. Lag was noticeable and there were many video artifacts, specially on quick movement scenes. My connection is very stable and gets all the way to 2.7 MB which is pretty much the 30mbps that they are asking for 4k.

It was good enough as to take it with me when traveling or something like that but not to replace my Gaming PC. Although, TBH, it does make me doubt if it's worth it to invest 1k or more on a gaming PC for the best experience.

I think the bottom line is that it is not enough for serious gamers like people in this forum but it's probably enough for the mainstream. That's enough to make traditional gaming a niche product which is enough to change gaming as we know it today, regretfully.

 

[octiny]

Yeah but you're just pinging to your ISP there right?

http://www.azurespeed.com/

What do you get here? Pick closest ones.

It jumps around between 15-18ms via wifi. So pretty close to google's DC's test, though unsure where Azures "west" location exactly is.

For me at least, I'm curious in the actual image quality so it'll be interesting to see how each company handles compression. Hoping each company offers higher bitrate variants of a 4K stream, so people like myself can take advantage of the their extra bandwidth & not settle for a say a standard default 4K bitrate.

 

[Gamernyc78]

I hear people saying latency is a major issue and got to say it's overly exaggerated here. The Nvidia shield tv has their geforce now service and works exactly like Stadia. I play current racers, shooters, and every modern day game under the sun and rarely ever notice lag.

My internet connnection is not some freak of nature. I use a powerline adapter kit setup from my modem and get a connection of about 110mbps down and 12mbps up. Nvida's geforce now works and shows that cloud gaming appears to be the future.

I played Psnow years ago on a 60 mb download 25upload connection and it worked good for me to the point I thought I was playing a disc game. It showed me streaming could be the future. You have fanboys and trolls talking shit just to talk but streaming games via Psnow has been viable and decent to gd for years. Sony did their homework and invested early to have a leg up years ago..

 

[Chairman Tickles]

The speed of your connection don't matter. Introducing that additional 20ms of input lag on top of all else is a disaster for anybody that's not a casual fifa fan. I can't. I just won't accept the mediocrity.

 

[Shifty]

I agree. Love it or hate it, 10 years from now the only non streaming consoleS left will be handhelds and PC.

That's a wild claim.

But, more importantly...

 

[Bryank75]

Streaming players would be destroyed in multiplayer / competitive

 

[Shakka43]

I too have done my fair share of of gaming on my Shield, it does work rather well but there is still a notable enough difference as too when I play the same games locally on my PS4/PC.
I don't doubt that streaming and subscription based gaming is gonna take a larger share of the gaming market, but not for at least another 5 years.

 

[Gamer79]

I've had a Shield TV for almost a yer, a few months back tried GeForce Now and was impressed by the performance. I mean, it is better than expected but not as good as playing natively.

I tried Witcher 3, Darsiders 2 and Max Payne 3 from my Steam Library. Lag was noticeable and there were many video artifacts, specially on quick movement scenes. My connection is very stable and gets all the way to 2.7 MB which is pretty much the 30mbps that they are asking for 4k.

It was good enough as to take it with me when traveling or something like that but not to replace my Gaming PC. Although, TBH, it does make me doubt if it's worth it to invest 1k or more on a gaming PC for the best experience.

I think the bottom line is that it is not enough for serious gamers like people in this forum but it's probably enough for the mainstream. That's enough to make traditional gaming a niche product which is enough to change gaming as we know it today, regretfully.

Geforce now ask for 50mbps or greater for optimal performance. There is a tool in the geforce now settings on your shield that will test if your network is optimal. I have not had the same problems you have.

 

[Croatoan]

For people worried about latency, you can check your connection's latency to the nearest Google data center using tools like this one

http://www.gcping.com/

I've got 40ms round-trip latency to my nearest, for example. That's about 1/25th of a second. For comparison, a lot of mid-range Samsung TVs have between 10-25ms response time and that's largely considered okay by most people, even when compounded with other input latency causing issues such as wireless controllers and such.

It really just comes down to how well your internet connection performs.

69ms fuck that. Call me when Google cares about Texas.

 

[Fbh]

For people worried about latency, you can check your connection's latency to the nearest Google data center using tools like this one

http://www.gcping.com/

I've got 40ms round-trip latency to my nearest, for example. That's about 1/25th of a second. For comparison, a lot of mid-range Samsung TVs have between 10-25ms response time and that's largely considered okay by most people, even when compounded with other input latency causing issues such as wireless controllers and such.

It really just comes down to how well your internet connection performs.

LOL I get like 100ms to the closest one.
Man if streaming takes off I hope there's still at least one "regular" alternative to it or I'll have to stick to older games until google (or whoever) makes a server in my country (which will probably be at some point around 2060)

 

[baphomet]

Imagine releasing a product that your potential customers just straight up can't use.

 

[Rayderism]

Lag WILL affect your scores. I've experienced latency (input lag specifically) myself, between an old LCD and newer ones, not to mention playing between game mode and movie mode where the difference was 20ms or 120ms, and the difference is VERY noticeable. I can truly say that it makes a BIG difference to your ability to do well in a game. I swear, my first LCD TV had more lag time in game mode than the TV I have now did in movie mode, it was that bad.

I'll be honest though, before I actually experienced lesser lag times, I didn't realise it was why I was sucking so bad at games. Once I got a TV with much better lag times, I suddenly realized the difference. I got better lap times in racers and was able to control the car much more efficiently. All of a sudden, I was hitting the flippers too soon in pinball. I was able to react to enemy bullets in shmups quicker. My examples may seem kind of old-school for younger gamers (you young whippersnappers, LOL), but you get the idea. Don't get me wrong, I still suck at games (I'm 51, so, you know.....decrasesed reaction times and whatnot), but I suck a LOT less than I did before I got a LCD TV with smaller lag times.

It's just one of those things you don't really notice until you experience better. Like the difference between jamming to tunes on a cheapo stereo and a quality one. Once you do, you can't go back. Streaming games just aren't going to work for me. There is no way they will ever get lag times down to a tolerable level while streaming games, no matter how fast your internet connection might be, or how close you are to the servers, compared to dedicated hardware being used in your home. God bless you if you can tolerate the latency. I certainly can't.

 

[Ryu Kaiba]

The speed of your connection don't matter. Introducing that additional 20ms of input lag on top of all else is a disaster for anybody that's not a casual fifa fan. I can't. I just won't accept the mediocrity.

The Casual Fifa/Nba 2k/Madden/GTA online fan is the target audience

 

[Chairman Tickles]

Then may they enjoy it very much.

 

[A.Romero]

Geforce now ask for 50mbps or greater for optimal performance. There is a tool in the geforce now settings on your shield that will test if your network is optimal. I have not had the same problems you have.

Can't use it then, it's what's available in my area. I hope better connections become widespread if this takes the lead for gaming.

 

[tr1p1ex]

With consoles everyone has the same quality of experience.

With cloud gaming everyone's quality of experience will be different and any one person's quality of experience won't be consistent hour to hour and day to day or game to game either.

And I don't trust people that say it works good because of this and because people have widely varying criteria for what is good and people have wildly different expectations as well based on what they hear.

If you live next to a server with a fiber optic 1gig connection and live alone then you're probably going to be happier with cloud streaming than a person with a 100 mbps connection who has a 65ms ping to the server and has 2 kids and a wife.

That's another thing what if my kids and I all want to game at the same time? Sometimes one kid is on the Switch and another on the PS4 and I'm on the pc. I'm sure that would all work smoothly today with a 100 mbps connection. Right?

 

[Jagz]

Of course PC's will be around. That wasn't my point. If streaming become viable enough as a format, publisher won't release on anything but on streaming platforms. If I can theoretically play in 4K @ 60 fps on any device through a streaming connection without lag or performance issues, I will no doubt spending my money on something else. Gaming PC's will become legacy dinosaurs, just like consoles. Retro PC gamers will be a thing just like retro console gamers.

Streaming isn't being marketed towards PC gamers, it's being marketed more towards console gamers, as evident by Stadia's use of a gamepad, etc. Up close to a monitor, the compression and artefacts are a lot more noticeable than from a TV viewing distance.

Also, streaming is not feasible for the multi-billion dollar eSports industry, where the games are being played on 120hz+ monitors and response time is of utmost importance.

 

[Romulus]

Agreed. People talk about game streaming so badly, as if it's going to get worse. It'll only improve year after year.

 

[nikos]

Different people have different standards. Those who would benefit from and enjoy cloud gaming are the ones who don't have high end hardware. "Good enough" should never become a standard. That's not how technology advances.

 

[Meowzers]

The speed of your connection don't matter. Introducing that additional 20ms of input lag on top of all else is a disaster for anybody that's not a casual fifa fan. I can't. I just won't accept the mediocrity.

Stop playing Fifa then.

 

[Meowzers]

Well if all this streaming stuff really gets going I better have low lag pinging itself around the world or my controller will be pinging itself across the room.

High input lag and not being able to game in 4K are my main concerns. 1080p doesn't really quite cut the mustard for me anymore.

If people are buying 4K TV's for gaming but their internet is slow and have to settle for 720p or 1080p...well, I'll hand it over here to this guy --->

 

[Trogdor1123]

40ms here... And that's just bouncing a signal back and forth...