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[Mitsuda Maniac]

You think NeoGaffers would be more sympathetic about a beloved gathering spot being damaged to the point of unusability

I could see the parallel if Notre Dame ends up being improved in the long run after sending its SJW population to another cathedral to whine, bitch and complain about identity politics.

 

[bad guy]

Thank God

Why
do people thank god when good things happen but don't blame him when bad things happen?

 

[Dunki]

We know that the renovation works ramped up a couple of days ago when they were flying the statues down from the roof, so there's absolutely nothing suspicious about the date of the incident. In fact, a journalist was visiting the site with the architect before the renovation works started on April the 6th:

We also know that multiple Churches have been vandalized in the past 4 months. 3 of them were lit on fire and these were confirmed Arson already.

 

[strange headache]

We also know that multiple Churches have been vandalized in the past 4 months. 3 of them were lit on fire and these were confirmed Arson already.

So what? That doesn't give you reason to jump to conclusions and spam this thread with some random twitter fool who thinks he's a "journalist" because of his silly "breaking news" banner, peddling unverified information and stealing pictures from other news sites without even crediting them.

Breaking news, my ass, that guy knows f*cking nothing.

 

[lock2k]

He updated the image

This just in. A former friend of mine just posted this gem on Facebook.

I'm sick and tired of reporting this motherfucker and they never do anything. If I made the same posts I would be banned from the platform on an instant.

This imbecile was one of the best man in my wedding in 2010.

 

[julio_grr]

Breaking news, my ass, that guy knows f*cking nothing.

Yes his twits are laughable. He is actually asking for money for him.
He's basically spreading fake news, there were people in the cathedral (a mass) when the first alarm was set off.

«Rien ne va dans le sens d’un acte volontaire», le point sur l’enquête

La piste accidentelle est privilégiée, dans l’enquête sur le terrible incendie q...

lavdn.lavoixdunord.fr

 

[bad guy]

So are we going to give millions to rebuild a extremely exquisitely decorated building, or are we going to use those millions to help poor and starving brothers and sisters? What would Jesus do?

 

[lock2k]

So are we going to give millions to rebuild a extremely exquisitely decorated building, or are we going to use those millions to help poor and starving brothers and sisters? What would Jesus do?

Fuck off with that.

Alhos e bugalhos!

 

[Aurelian]

So are we going to give millions to rebuild a extremely exquisitely decorated building, or are we going to use those millions to help poor and starving brothers and sisters? What would Jesus do?

That is a problem, isn't it? I wish those same people pledging millions to the repair would match that with funds for helping the less fortunate.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

So are we going to give millions to rebuild a extremely exquisitely decorated building, or are we going to use those millions to help poor and starving brothers and sisters? What would Jesus do?

The pope would and should wish to give of his own money, even though he had to sell the basilica of St. Peter, to many of those from whom certain hawkers of indulgences cajole money.

Since the Pope seeks the salvation of souls rather than money by his indulgences, why does he suspend the indulgences and pardons previously granted when they have equal efficacy?

 

[Dunki]

Yes his twits are laughable. He is actually asking for money for him.

Almost evey free "journalist" is asking for money and in this case it is because he can not afford it to travel there even though he really wants to. Sorry that they are no honorable games journlists from polygon. And his whole account is about news reporting. If you see any fake news feel free to tell me.

That is a problem, isn't it? I wish those same people pledging millions to the repair would match that with funds for helping the less fortunate.

No this is a part of France and and an iconic symbol f the country. It is more worth than just a few poor people or you and me. Why do you think IS destroyed so many artifacts and religious places? Because they know of the importance these have to people. And you have seen how people gathered together and prayed sang etc. Despite me not like Religion it still has a lot of power to many people.

 

[lock2k]

Almost evey free "journalist" is asking for money and in this case it is because he can not afford it to travel there even though he really wants to. Sorry that they are no honorable games journlists from polygon. And his whole account is about news reporting. If you see any fake news feel free to tell me.
No this is a part of France and and an iconic symbol f the country. It is more worth than just a few poor people or you and me. Why do you think IS destroyed so many artifacts and religious places? Because they know of the importance these have to people. And you have seen how people gathered together and prayed sang etc. Despite me not like Religion it still has a lot of power to many people.

This, so much. I'm not religious either. I'm a cultural catholic but I don't even follow anything.

But losing something like this is a loss to fucking humanity and history. Why can't some people realize that?

 

[Tesseract]

eh

all the art is already well documented in ultra resolution and laser scanned

let the past die

 

[julio_grr]

Almost evey free "journalist" is asking for money and in this case it is because he can not afford it to travel there even though he really wants to.

At least he is honest about that. But do we need more Twitter buzz? Not sure.

Sorry that they are no honorable games journlists from polygon.

You must be thinking of someone else. I don't read Polygon and actually don't see why you would bring that up.

And his whole account is about news reporting. If you see any fake news feel free to tell me.

As I already said there were people in the cathedral (a mass) when the first alarm was set off.

 

[Fluzer]

So are we going to give millions to rebuild a extremely exquisitely decorated building, or are we going to use those millions to help poor and starving brothers and sisters? What would Jesus do?

People are donating to terrorist organizations and you're going to have a spill over sparing a few hundred mill and repairing one of the world's most precious churches that is also a marvel in architectural design. Lol

 

[Dunki]

eh

all the art is already well documented in ultra resolution and laser scanned

let the past die

Yeah you are right. Who are these people that build fucking 200 years on this thing. Lets ignore all the people who died during the construction they are worth nothing. Lets get Poor people a new TV instead because this is more important than 200 years of History

 

[Dunki]

At least he is honest about that. But do we need more Twitter buzz? Not sure.

You must be thinking of someone else. I don't read Polygon and actually don't see why you would bring that up.



As I already said there were people in the cathedral (a mass) when the first alarm was set off.

The fire broke out 6 minutes after closing there was no construction going on during this time either. There was no mass.

 

[Tesseract]

Yeah you are right. Who are these people that build fucking 200 years on this thing. Lets ignore all the people who died during the construction they are worth nothing. Lets get Poor people a new TV instead because this is more important than 200 years of History

agreed

 

[strange headache]

The fire broke out 6 minutes after closing there was no construction going on during this time either. There was no mass.

Dude, the first fire alarm went off 6:20 pm, the second one on 6:43. When the first fire alarm went off, they couldn't find the source. It was only after the second alarm went off that they saw smoke coming from the top of the roof. So yes, there was a mass. Second, there were renovation works going on that day as confirmed by the french sources that I posted before. Police have interviewed 15 workers that were on site that day! I've also explained to you that certain construction fires can start days later, due to slow but increasing heat buildup. All the official sources confirm that experts suspect a faulty soldering seam.

Your twitter guy has no credentials whatsoever, he's just capitalizing on a tragedy by peddling half-truths and unverifiable claims. The pictures he posts and all the other verified information can be gathered from official news sources. If anything he's aggregating news from other sites, while mixing in unverified claims in order to gain attention and to make bank and sell stories to those who desperately want this to be a terrorist attack. Stop defending this bullcrap.

 

[Aurelian]

No this is a part of France and and an iconic symbol f the country. It is more worth than just a few poor people or you and me. Why do you think IS destroyed so many artifacts and religious places? Because they know of the importance these have to people. And you have seen how people gathered together and prayed sang etc. Despite me not like Religion it still has a lot of power to many people.

I didn't say "instead of," did I? The point is that people would ideally pour money into supporting the values of Christianity, not just the symbols. Why wouldn't you use this as an opportunity to show compassion, to prove that it's about deeds and not just words?

 

[bad guy]

That is a problem, isn't it? I wish those same people pledging millions to the repair would match that with funds for helping the less fortunate.

No matching. ALL the millions should be helping the less fortunate before spending on luxuries. Practice what you preach. And Im not talking about free TVs, millions of kids dont even have clean water to drink. But I'm sure Jesus would rather have the more fortunate people have pretty
buildings.

 

[Tesseract]

 

[Aurelian]

No matching. ALL the millions should be helping the less fortunate before spending on luxuries. Practice what you preach. And Im not talking about free TVs, millions of kids dont even have clean water to drink. But I'm sure god would rather have the more fortunate people have pretty things.

Oh, in an ideal world that'd be exactly what would happen. I'm just being pragmatic since, like it or not, you know they won't abandon Notre Dame.

 

[RokkanStoned]

Hmmm, what was the point in posting that? I don't think that's very much in the tone of the thread. I like dark humor, but I also usually try to do it where the context seems a bit more fitting. Could you explain the context?

 

[Tesseract]

Hmmm, what was the point in posting that? I don't think that's very much in the tone of the thread. I like dark humor, but I also usually try to do it where the context seems a bit more fitting. Could you explain the context?

the ethos of cheerful nihilism, taking negative and seemingly random events and spinning them into a kind of calamitous absurdity

the idea is there's no exiting or quitting nature's decay, everything eventually dies

it's a wonderful metaphor for the state of western civilization and in some ways spirituality itself

the church shows physically what it represents spiritually, the faithful and devout are mostly gone and it's hollow and depressing

on and on this honk goes, where it stops nobody knows

 

[Bolivar687]

Really good piece by Douglas Murray:

Notre Dame’s loss is too much to bear | Coffee House

blogs-spectator-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org

No matching. ALL the millions should be helping the less fortunate before spending on luxuries. Practice what you preach. And Im not talking about free TVs, millions of kids dont even have clean water to drink. But I'm sure god would rather have the more fortunate people have pretty things.

The Roman Catholic Church is the largest provider of education, health care, and overall human services, not only in the world today, but in all of human history.

Notre Dame has inspired millions across the centuries to look beyond their own material well-being. It should be restored.

 

[RokkanStoned]

the ethos of cheerful nihilism, taking negative and seemingly random events and spinning them into a kind of calamitous absurdity

the idea is there's no exiting or quitting nature's decay, everything eventually dies

it's a wonderful metaphor for the state of western civilization

Wouldn't that be the state of all civilization, in perspective?
Again, I get the dark humor in it, but I'm not sure if it'll sit well with the tone of the thread. I can get the fun of the absurdity, of facing disasters and the human condition with a tragic or farcical laughter and nihilism, but I'm not sure if everyone will get that sort of context.

 

[Tesseract]

Wouldn't that be the state of all civilization, in perspective?
Again, I get the dark humor in it, but I'm not sure if it'll sit well with the tone of the thread. I can get the fun of the absurdity, of facing disasters and the human condition with a tragic or farcical laughter and nihilism, but I'm not sure if everyone will get that sort of context.

of course you are right, it applies not only to civilization but the universe itself

that's fine, it's not for everyone

 

[iconmaster]

Why
do people thank god when good things happen but don't blame him when bad things happen?

You can. Read the book of Job.

The point is that people would ideally pour money into supporting the values of Christianity, not just the symbols

I feel the force of this argument, but I also think there is a soul-edifying value to a great cathedral. Christianity is not only or primarily about saving bodies.

 

[ruvikx]

eh

all the art is already well documented in ultra resolution and laser scanned

let the past die

So we can have mosques & concrete jungles dominating the Parisian cityscape instead? oohlala, what a great future. Let the past die... if you want a future which resembles Arabia-Africa. Bottom line, this is an unimaginable tragedy & completely humiliating for Macron. Both theories (deliberate arson or accidental) are damning for the government because both reveal a real malaise in France (at a time when the yellow vest protests continue after nearly half a year & multi-faith integration exists merely in the media - not in real life).

Last week the Pope was licking some African person's feet (I do believe even those Africans in question were horrified by how humiliating & disgusting that spectacle was https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...s-feet-rival-South-Sudan-leaders-Vatican.html). Macron is also someone who declared "France has no culture" (English: http://europeanpost.co/macron-denies-the-existence-of-a-french-culture/
Original French article from the mainstream Figaro news site: http://www.lefigaro.fr/vox/politiqu...n-et-le-reniement-de-la-culture-francaise.php). Now Notre Dame, aka a symbol of real French & European culture dating back 850 years has perished on his watch. It's pathetic & his reaction symbolizes his innate failings as a person & as president.

They can't salvage this from a narrative viewpoint, FYI, i.e. any attempt to "rebuild" will (considering the damage) only ever be a pale imitation/copy. You can't "fix" the destruction of a nearly one thousand year old building because its age, longevity & meaning are based entirely upon the history of the place. They've also (predictably) inserted diversity propaganda into the whole rebuilding project ("we're all coming together to rebuild!!!"). What utter embarrassing nonsense.

 

[Dunki]

I didn't say "instead of," did I? The point is that people would ideally pour money into supporting the values of Christianity, not just the symbols. Why wouldn't you use this as an opportunity to show compassion, to prove that it's about deeds and not just words?

Which they Do constantly. Notre Dame is probably the Most iconic chatholic Symbol int the World. IT has inspired million of people and certainly also caused Million or even Billion of donations through out history

 

[CaptainAnchovie]

So are we going to give millions to rebuild a extremely exquisitely decorated building, or are we going to use those millions to help poor and starving brothers and sisters? What would Jesus do?

Through the west's actions we have cut mortality rates in the 3rd world, but birth rates have not fallen and do not appear as though they will. By 2100, Africa is projected to have a population of 4 Billion people, we can say with a degree of certainty that this explosive growth is mostly attributable to Western Aid and Intervention. While the productive portions of Western populations shrink and the unsolvable issues of high 3rd world birth rates continues, we will reach a situation where it is impossible to sustain the aid we send through taxpayers. What will occur afterwards will be some of the most vicious and darkest times in human history as millions or billions starve and engage in basic resource wars in the 3rd world. Is that a more humane solution?
You could suggest that we may be able to socially engineer this problem away through education and family planning, but UN projections are accounting for this, the efficacy of those programs are far less than satisfactory.

Personally, I'd rather just rebuild a European Icon with money.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Interesting how arson and terror-related motives have already been ruled out by officials less than 48 hours after the fire, but further details as to how they came to those conclusions haven't been revealed yet.

Do they not realize that jumping to such conclusions will fuel suspicions of conspiracy?

 

[RokkanStoned]

Last week the Pope was licking some African person's feet (I do believe even those Africans in question were horrified by how humiliating & disgusting that spectacle was https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...s-feet-rival-South-Sudan-leaders-Vatican.html).

I'm not that well versed in catholic rituals, but considering the context of preventing war and the fact that the pope has previously kissed people's feet after doing the symbolic washing of people's feet, I'm unsure if that's something to harp about. Is the kissing outside of the washing humiliating? Even if so, can't it be a sign of the gravity of the Pope's request and the lengths he'd go for a good end?

Macron is also someone who declared "France has no culture" (English: http://europeanpost.co/macron-denies-the-existence-of-a-french-culture/
Original French article from the mainstream Figaro news site: http://www.lefigaro.fr/vox/politiqu...n-et-le-reniement-de-la-culture-francaise.php). Now Notre Dame, aka a symbol of real French & European culture dating back 850 years has perished on his watch. It's pathetic & his reaction symbolizes his innate failings as a person & as president.

Yeah, I could agree that Macron is a tool at least.

They can't salvage this from a narrative viewpoint, FYI, i.e. any attempt to "rebuild" will (considering the damage) only ever be a pale imitation/copy. You can't "fix" the destruction of a nearly one thousand year old building because its age, longevity & meaning are based entirely upon the history of the place. They've also (predictably) inserted diversity propaganda into the whole rebuilding project ("we're all coming together to rebuild!!!"). What utter embarrassing nonsense.

Well, lots of famous things have had to be rebuilt, often after fires, so it's nothing new in that respect. But yeah, the damage that was done is irreversible, you can't bring them back, only create replicas. However, I don't see the problem with "we're all coming together to rebuild", as long as they don't try to insert things into the rebuilding. It's religious, but it's also french, meaning all french people should feel a sense of joining in on fixing a national symbol.

 

[Grinchy]

He updated the image

This just in. A former friend of mine just posted this gem on Facebook.

I'm sick and tired of reporting this motherfucker and they never do anything. If I made the same posts I would be banned from the platform on an instant.

This imbecile was one of the best man in my wedding in 2010.

Oh no, someone made a joke you didn't like. The horror!

Hopefully he doesn't just get banned from Facebook and lose your friendship. He needs more punishment than that. Send this to his employer and his family members. Make sure everyone completely disowns him. Find out where he stays while he's homeless and send police there with the claim that he robbed someone. Maybe he'll get shot or something! If he lives, find out which prison he's staying at and hire some people to see to it that he "has a little accident." We just cannot let him get away with this post!!!!

 

[strange headache]

Do they not realize that jumping to such conclusions will fuel suspicions of conspiracy?

Where have they ruled out anything? They are running the investigation on “involuntary destruction caused by fire", because they have no evidence to assume otherwise.

Do they not realize that jumping to such conclusions will fuel suspicions of conspiracy?

No, the only thing that is driving these conspiracies are good ol' fashioned confirmation bias and scapegoating. People rushing to conclusions and working their way backwards from there.

 

[Verdanth]

Oh man, I'm crying because of this.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Where have they ruled out anything? They are running the investigation on “involuntary destruction caused by fire", because they have no evidence to assume otherwise.



No, the only thing that is driving these conspiracies are good ol' fashioned confirmation bias and scapegoating. People rushing to conclusions and working their way backwards from there.

I am not talking about people running away with conspiracy theories (like we saw in this thread).

I am referencing how this morning's (evening for friends in EU) news articles repeated phrases like "officials have ruled out arson, having found no evidence of the fire having been intentionally started" and "they know it wasn't intentionally set."

This seems like a rash conclusion and I would assume that a proper investigation into a tragedy like this would take more than 48 hours.

Again, I am not claiming conspiracy under this particular rock. I'm saying that this is a bad way to go about it specifically because there will be people who jump to conclusions of conspiracy. The best thing the French gov't could do is speak confidently about the details they already and stay silent about the possibility of arson or terrorism.

 

[strange headache]

I am referencing how this morning's (evening for friends in EU) news articles repeated phrases like "officials have ruled out arson, having found no evidence of the fire having been intentionally started" and "they know it wasn't intentionally set." [...] This seems like a rash conclusion and I would assume that a proper investigation into a tragedy like this would take more than 48 hours.

Please provide sources where officials are "ruling out arson" and rushing to conclusions? None of the french news sources confirm what you say. Basically every article I've read confirms that investigations just started and it will be quite some time until we can know for sure.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Please provide sources where officials are "ruling out arson" and rushing to conclusions? None of the french news sources confirm what you say.

Sure.

French businesses donate $700M to rebuild Notre-Dame Cathedral - UPI.com

Donations to reconstruct Notre-Dame reached $700 million dollars Tuesday as wealthy business owners joined French President Emmanuel Macron's call to rebuild the cathedral devastated by fire.

www.upi.com

French President Macron hopes to rebuild Notre-Dame in five years

President Emmanuel Macron pledged on Tuesday that France would rebuild the fire-devastated Notre-Dame de Paris cathedral, saying he hoped the work would be done in five years and the French people would pull together to repair their national symbol.

www.reuters.com

Notre Dame’s organ survives the fire; officials say no evidence of arson

Paris’ deputy mayor says Notre Dame’s organ, among the world’s most famous and biggest, remains intact after a devastating fire at Paris’ main cathedral.

www.kcrg.com

Paris prosecutor: No evidence of arson at Notre Dame fire

The Paris prosecutor says there's no evidence of arson in the Notre Dame fire and that they're working on the assumption that the blaze was an accident.

www.clickondetroit.com

Notre Dame arson, terrorism ruled out for now, Paris prosecutors’ office says

The Paris prosecutors’ office said late Monday they have ruled out arson in the Notre Dame Cathedral fire, including possible terror-related motives for starting the blaze.

www.washingtontimes.com

 

[Screamer-RSA]

Foooook! It's a global tragedy

 

[Dunki]

Where have they ruled out anything? They are running the investigation on “involuntary destruction caused by fire", because they have no evidence to assume otherwise.

And they can do that. the question is if I would trust anything Macron could have his hands in. Or do i go by recent examples in which at least 3 other churches were set on fire in the last 4 month. This together with the beginning of Holy Week makes it still more than plausible to ME:. I guess we will see in a few weeks and if its 100% proven an accident I will be the first who comes here and apologizes.

Also I am not saying it was the "evil" Islam. I am just saying that I highly believe that this was no accident.

 

[strange headache]

Sure.

French businesses donate $700M to rebuild Notre-Dame Cathedral - UPI.com

Donations to reconstruct Notre-Dame reached $700 million dollars Tuesday as wealthy business owners joined French President Emmanuel Macron's call to rebuild the cathedral devastated by fire.

www.upi.com

French President Macron hopes to rebuild Notre-Dame in five years

President Emmanuel Macron pledged on Tuesday that France would rebuild the fire-devastated Notre-Dame de Paris cathedral, saying he hoped the work would be done in five years and the French people would pull together to repair their national symbol.

www.reuters.com

Notre Dame’s organ survives the fire; officials say no evidence of arson

Paris’ deputy mayor says Notre Dame’s organ, among the world’s most famous and biggest, remains intact after a devastating fire at Paris’ main cathedral.

www.kcrg.com

Paris prosecutor: No evidence of arson at Notre Dame fire

The Paris prosecutor says there's no evidence of arson in the Notre Dame fire and that they're working on the assumption that the blaze was an accident.

www.clickondetroit.com

Notre Dame arson, terrorism ruled out for now, Paris prosecutors’ office says

The Paris prosecutors’ office said late Monday they have ruled out arson in the Notre Dame Cathedral fire, including possible terror-related motives for starting the blaze.

www.washingtontimes.com

"no sign or arson"

"no evidence of arson"

"terrorism ruled out for now"

This is the truth so far. None of these sources claim for sure that arson wasn't involved. You're the one jumping to that conclusion only because officials have found no evidence to the contrary so far.

And they can do that. the question is if I would trust anything Macron could have his hands in. Or do i go by recent examples in which at least 3 other churches were set on fire in the last 4 month. This together with the beginning of Holy Week makes it still more than plausible to ME.

Again, what seems plausible to you is not the scope of my criticism. I've merely pointed out to you that your twitter guy is not a reliable source as he made numerous wrong claims.

Please provide evidence that link the other church fires to this one. You can't, which is why we cannot assume anything from that. Also, I've explained to you multiple times by now that renovation works started ramping up these past few days, so the date cannot be automatically assumed to be suspicious.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

"no sign or arson"

"no evidence of arson"

"terrorism ruled out for now"

None of these sources claim for sure that arson wasn't involved. You're the one jumping to that conclusion only because officials have found no evidence to the contrary so far.

I think you're battling against the wrong front, strange. I'm not jumping to any conclusions. I'm pointing these media-sources jumping to conclusions and crafting their headlines accordingly. They are painting a clear narrative that arson and terrorism have been ruled out. Their headlines are not ambiguous, and only a few of the listed sources offer the caveats of "for now".

This seems like a risky way to diffuse concerns over the situation, but we'll see who is right within a few days. Will conspiracies be squashed by the reassurances from the Government? I don't think so. I think they will worsen, which is exactly what you are hoping doesn't happen.

 

[strange headache]

I think you're battling against the wrong front, strange. I'm not jumping to any conclusions. I'm pointing these media-sources jumping to conclusions and crafting their headlines accordingly.

No I'm not and no your sources are not doing what you claim. First of all, most of the sources you've provided are sh*tty outlets, upi.com? Really?

The only one worthwhile is Reuters and they do not rule out anything:

Paris public prosecutor Remy Heitz said there was no obvious indication the fire was arson. Fifty people were working on what would be a long and complex investigation.

Investigators will not be able to enter the cathedral’s blackened nave until experts are satisfied its stone walls withstood the heat and the building is structurally sound.

The Paris prosecutor has opened an investigation into “involuntary destruction by fire”. Police on Tuesday began questioning the workers involved in the restoration, the prosecutor’s office said.

Where are they ruling out anything? They are only reporting on what is known so far, that there is still no evidence of arson, which is true.

Here's kcrg, your other source:

The Paris prosecutor says there’s no evidence of arson in the Notre Dame fire and that they’re working on the assumption that the blaze was an accident.

Remy Heitz says the investigation will be “long and complex.”

Here's the Washington Times:

The Paris prosecutors’ office says investigators are treating the blaze that destroyed part of Notre Dame as an accident for now.

Seems to me you only bothered with the headlines in your quick google search to back up your previously unfounded claims.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

No I'm not and no your sources are not doing what you claim. First of all, most of the sources you've provided are sh*tty outlets, upi.com? Really?

The only one worthwhile is Reuters and they do not rule out anything:



Where are they ruling out anything? They are only reporting on what is known so far, that there is still no evidence of arson, which is true.

Here's kcrg, your other source:



Here's the Washington Times:



Seems to me you only bothered with the headlines in your quick google search to back up your previously unfounded claims.

So you're telling me these outlets aren't pushing a conspiratorial narrative, while telling me to watch out for conspiratorial narratives without facts?

C'mon strange. You're way over the shark at this point.

Prosecutors Rule Out Arson at Paris' Famous Notre Dame Cathedral

It is one of Europe's most-popular tourist attractions

time.com

Notre Dame fire was 2nd to hit an iconic French Catholic church in a month

The world watched in horror as Paris’ historic Notre Dame Cathedral erupted in flames Monday. It was the second fire to hit a historic French Catholic church in under a month.

www.rt.com

What Caused Notre Dame Fire? Inquiry Says Accidental

The Paris prosecutor's office opened an inquiry late Monday into involuntary destruction by fire, excluding a criminal motive.

www.newsweek.com

​

France’s newspaper Le Monde reported that the Paris prosecutor's office had opened an inquiry late Monday into “involuntary destruction by fire,” which excludes any “a priori criminal motive.”

(doesn't help that CNN cuts him off, either)

French President Emmanuel Macron vows to rebuild Notre Dame within five years after brutal fire

Scorched, smoldering but still standing, Notre Dame Cathedral will be restored to its former glory “within five years,” France’s president vowed Tuesday. Emmanuel Macron said the …

www.nydailynews.com

And lastly, Reddit also wonders why it was declared "not arson" so quickly:



I am not scrambling to grab headlines to "back up my previously unfounded claims". There is a narrative being pushed based on scant comments from officials and you are trying to tell me I'm unfounded in pointing this out...

...while doing this in the name of fighting against conspiracy. I am pushing no narrative. I am pointing out a conspiracy trying to blossom right under your nose and you're getting mad at me for it.

 

[Bolivar687]

No I'm not and no your sources are not doing what you claim. First of all, most of the sources you've provided are sh*tty outlets, upi.com? Really?

The only one worthwhile is Reuters and they do not rule out anything:



Where are they ruling out anything? They are only reporting on what is known so far, that there is still no evidence of arson, which is true.

Here's kcrg, your other source:



Here's the Washington Times:



Seems to me you only bothered with the headlines in your quick google search to back up your previously unfounded claims.

You seem REALLY desperate to stamp out any and all allegations of arson. With 875 French attacks on Catholic Churches in 2018 by both secularists and muslims (by definition, hate crimes), it is well beyond fair and reasonable to keep this in mind as a possibility.

I wish I could understand what it is about religion that drives you so insane.

 

[RokkanStoned]

You seem REALLY desperate to stamp out any and all allegations of arson. With 875 French attacks on Catholic Churches in 2018 by both secularists and muslims, it is well beyond fair and reasonable to keep this in mind as a possibility.

I wish I could understand what it is about religion that makes you so insane.

It might be a possibility, but it's not something to speculate about from nowhere near the actual place, without a fire investigator's judgements. It doesn't really add anything other than riling up people around something there's no grounds for yet.
It's better to view the arson attacks on other churches outside of the context of this one, until there's actual proof. A better discussion in the meanwhile would be what to ensure that other priceless cultural artifacts and buildings are safe from accidental fires or arson.

 

[Alx]

So, a little update on what has been lost and what hasn't, to take a break from all the conspiracies and suspicions :

Incendie de Notre-Dame de Paris : ce qui a été perdu et ce qui a été sauvé

La flèche et la « forêt » ont été dévorées par les flammes, mais la plupart des chefs-d’œuvre et des reliques, comme la sainte couronne, ont pu être épargnés. On ignore encore l’état du grand orgue et des rosaces.

www.lemonde.fr

What has been lost :
- the roof and its wooden frame, part of which dated back to the original construction in XIIIth century.
- the spire, built in XIXth century (also made of wood and lead), including a small bronze rooster statue that was sitting at the top of it ; it contained one thorn of the "true" thorn crown and other relics, meant to protect the city

What is safe :
- the general structure and both bell towers, even if firefighters are checking for potential weaknesses caused by the fire
- the bells, and especially the larger, 300 years old one
- holy relics : thorn crown, Louis IXth's tunic, a nail and pieces from the cross … plus the whole "treasure" (ceremonial trinkets or whatever)
- 13 large wooden paintings, from XVIIth/XVIIIth century
- the 12 apostle bronze statues, that used to sit on the spire but have been taken away for restauration a few days earlier.

Unsure :
- the main altar from the XIXth centuty the cross of which appears on photographs, hasn't been destroyed. It's still unsure if the statue at its base has suffered from the fire.
- the great organ, from XVth century, "has suffered but it's not catastrophic". Could have been damaged by water and the heat, but it didn't burn.
- stained glasses : their general state is unknown. According to eye-witnesses, the three round rose windows seem to have endured the fire, only showing traces of soot. One of them may need an intervention though, because the lead holding the glass together has melted.
- choir wall, with XIVth century engravings about Jesus' life : no info about its status.

 

[strange headache]

And lastly, Reddit also wonders why it was declared "not arson" so quickly:

r/conspiracy? Really?

I am not scrambling to grab headlines to "back up my previously unfounded claims". There is a narrative being pushed based on scant comments from officials and you are trying to tell me I'm unfounded in pointing this out...

Officials aren't "pushing a narrative", they are saying that they have found no evidence of arson so far 24 hours after the incident. What do you want? More fearmongering and fanning the flames based on no evidence? Remember Covington? Because this is how you get Covington.

(doesn't help that CNN cuts him off, either)

Yeah no, I was the one who presented that video. The news anchor was right in cutting him off, because that person had absolutely no evidence when asked about it. This is what responsible journalism looks like.

...while doing this in the name of fighting against conspiracy. I am pushing no narrative. I am pointing out a conspiracy trying to blossom right under your nose and you're getting mad at me for it.

If you're seriously suggesting that officials are withholding information from us because they don't wan't the public to know that this is a "terrorist attack", then please provide evidence. You have nothing to go on in order to show that this is indeed the case. You're only spinning official statements into something that they are not.

You seem REALLY desperate to stamp out any and all allegations of arson.

Where am I trying to "stamp out any allegations of arson"? I'm merely critiquing that there is no evidence so far and pointing out the false news presented by others. I'm not ruling out anything simply because there is no evidence so far. You are the ones scaremongering based on no evidence at all.

I wish I could understand what it is about religion that drives you so insane.

Don't be ridiculous. I've been nothing but empathetic to what happened, just go a couple of pages back, here and here for example. You're really grasping at straws and I'd advise you to not make such an unfounded allegation again.