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[ethomaz]

what does SNEK stand for?

Anaconda... snake... snek.

 

[SonGoku]

50-100 dollars is not a small loss. you would have to buy three games for sony to cover 50 bucks, or 5 games to cover 100. That would not happen. In addition 150 million dollar loss on 3 million consoles for the first batch would be ridiculous

Im not saying they will, but a 50-100 dollars loss woulnt be unrealistic either.
Prior Initial BoM Losses

Spoiler

Xbox: No data available.
Xbox 360: $125-$252 per unit ($525 - $552 BoM / $299 No HDD / $399 HDD)
Xbox One: $33 per unit (457 + $75 Kinect BoM / $499)
Xbox One X: None ($442 BoM / $499)

PlayStation: $130 per unit ($430 BoM / $299)
PlayStation 2: $179 per unit ($479 BoM / $299)
PlayStation 3: $305 per unit ($805 BoM / $499 20GB HDD / $599 60GB HDD)
PlayStation 4: None ($381 BoM / $399)
PlayStation 4 Pro: None ($318 BoM / $399)

 

[CyberPanda]

Anaconda... snake... snek.

 

[stetiger]

Im not saying they will, but a 50-100 dollars loss woulnt be unrealistic either.
Prior Initial BoM Losses

Spoiler

Xbox: No data available.
Xbox 360: $125-$252 per unit ($525 - $552 BoM / $299 No HDD / $399 HDD)
Xbox One: $33 per unit (457 + $75 Kinect BoM / $499)
Xbox One X: None ($442 BoM / $499)

PlayStation: $130 per unit ($430 BoM / $299)
PlayStation 2: $179 per unit ($479 BoM / $299)
PlayStation 3: $305 per unit ($805 BoM / $499 20GB HDD / $599 60GB HDD)
PlayStation 4: None ($381 BoM / $399)
PlayStation 4 Pro: None ($318 BoM / $399)

Interesting chart. I doubt their investors would allow them to sell at a loss anymore. I doubt they need to at launch. I also don't think they can afford losing money on a device like they used to. The console business is their primary source of revenue

 

[bitbydeath]

what does SNEK stand for?

Strange neurological eating kink?

 

[SonGoku]

Interesting chart. I doubt their investors would allow them to sell at a loss anymore. I doubt they need to at launch.

Again im not saying they will (maybe they wont even need to) but PlayStation represents a huge part of Sony and as such they will take a small loss if its seen as an investment
At the start of this gen Sony was in no position to be taking risks so they played it safe.

Alternatively they could launch at $500 and take a small loss for a price drop if the console under performs.

I also don't think they can afford losing money on a device like they used to.

Let's take PS3 out of the equation for obvious reasons.
Adjusted to inflation 50-100 dollars today its a much smaller loss than either:

• PlayStation: $130 per unit $216.85
• PlayStation 2: $179 per unit $262.74

Were at their time.

 

[CyberPanda]

 

[Imtjnotu]

Again im not saying they will (maybe they wont even need to) but PlayStation represents a huge part of Sony and as such they will take a small loss if its seen as an investment
At the start of this gen Sony was in no position to be taking risks so they played it safe.

Alternatively they could launch at $500 and take a small loss for a price drop if the console under performs.

Let's take PS3 out of the equation for obvious reasons.
Adjusted to inflation 50-100 dollars today its a much smaller loss than either:

• PlayStation: $130 per unit $216.85
• PlayStation 2: $179 per unit $262.74

Were at their time.

i swore both sony and MS were making a profit at ps4/xbone launch

 

[DeepEnigma]

Seems like MS and Sony will be sharing each other’s cloud gaming tech expertise which will be mutually beneficial for both companies in this partnership.

 

[SonGoku]

i swore both sony and MS were making a profit at ps4/xbone launch

Sony was

Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

what does SNEK stand for? Anaconda... snake... snek.

www.neogaf.com

 

[CyberPanda]

Here's the actual link to the Reddit rumour:

 

[devilNprada]

Im not saying they will, but a 50-100 dollars loss woulnt be unrealistic either.
Prior Initial BoM Losses

Spoiler

Xbox: No data available.
Xbox 360: $125-$252 per unit ($525 - $552 BoM / $299 No HDD / $399 HDD)
Xbox One: $33 per unit (457 + $75 Kinect BoM / $499)
Xbox One X: None ($442 BoM / $499)

PlayStation: $130 per unit ($430 BoM / $299)
PlayStation 2: $179 per unit ($479 BoM / $299)
PlayStation 3: $305 per unit ($805 BoM / $499 20GB HDD / $599 60GB HDD)
PlayStation 4: None ($381 BoM / $399)
PlayStation 4 Pro: None ($318 BoM / $399)

Where's this from? Sorry, but It's bogus.. By definition bom would be the landed cost of getting the parts to Foxconn or whoever does the assembly, typically labor and overhead maybe about 20% of your manufacturing cost. So now add 20% to your cost.. And your listing msrp as your price but retailers aren't buying at msrp so that's over stated.. Now add freight to the retailer maybe the bigger retailers are shipping from China themselves so knock that off your msrp price... So doubtful it's correct but we can agree they took some type of loss

 

[SonGoku]

Where's this from? Sorry, but It's bogus.. By definition bom would be the landed cost of getting the parts to Foxconn or whoever does the assembly, typically labor and overhead maybe about 20% of your manufacturing cost. So now add 20% to your cost.. And your listing msrp as your price but retailers aren't buying at msrp so that's over stated.. Now add freight to the retailer maybe the bigger retailers are shipping from China themselves so knock that off your msrp price...

If that's the case, proves my point further

Initial BoM Losses: Xbox-Next & PS5 (Poll)

What initial losses do you expect Sony (PS5) and/or Microsoft (Xbox-Next) would eat in BoM cost? Prior Initial BoM Losses Xbox: No data available. Xbox 360: $125-$252 per unit ($525 - $552 BoM / $299 No HDD / $399 HDD) Xbox One: $33 per unit (457 + $75 Kinect BoM / $499) Xbox One X: None ($442...

forum.beyond3d.com

 

[KingT731]

Sony was

Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

what does SNEK stand for? Anaconda... snake... snek.

www.neogaf.com

If I'm not mistaken they stated they were profitable after 1 game sale.

 

[SonGoku]

If I'm not mistaken they stated they were profitable after 1 game sale.

Yeah with PS+ I believe

 

[DeepEnigma]

Here's the actual link to the Reddit rumour:

I am expecting 10-12TF. Maybe 11.5 optimal range.

That will still be a big upgrade for a min spec. It won’t just be TFs that tell the tale. Ram bus speeds, the SSD integration, customizations, as well as the major CPU boost are going to make the larger difference over previous gen.

 

[Fake]

If MS does that, they’re fucking stupid. Lol

Easy task.

 

[SonGoku]

I am expecting 10-12TF. Maybe 11.5 optimal range.

That will still be a big upgrade for a min spec. It won’t just be TFs that tell the tale. Ram bus speeds, the SSD integration, customizations, as well as the major CPU upgrade are going to make the larger difference over previous gen.

I have a feeling 12TF is happening maybe even a bit more but i wont be terribly disappointed with 11TF
CPU, SSD, 24GB RAM and Bandwith will all be huge upgrades not to mention potential GPU customizations.

 

[bitbydeath]

I am expecting 10-12TF. Maybe 11.5 optimal range.

That will still be a big upgrade for a min spec. It won’t just be TFs that tell the tale. Ram bus speeds, the SSD integration, customizations, as well as the major CPU boost are going to make the larger difference over previous gen.

What does that even mean? I thought the cloud was supposed to power Xbox, not Xbox powering the cloud?

 

[SonGoku]

What does that even mean? I thought the cloud was supposed to power Xbox, not Xbox powering the cloud?

Xbox chips on server farms

 

[devilNprada]

If that's the case, proves my point further

Initial BoM Losses: Xbox-Next & PS5 (Poll)

What initial losses do you expect Sony (PS5) and/or Microsoft (Xbox-Next) would eat in BoM cost? Prior Initial BoM Losses Xbox: No data available. Xbox 360: $125-$252 per unit ($525 - $552 BoM / $299 No HDD / $399 HDD) Xbox One: $33 per unit (457 + $75 Kinect BoM / $499) Xbox One X: None ($442...

forum.beyond3d.com

Well yeah, I can't argue your point I'm not in marketing.. I can only cost, I don't price strategize .. Just keep in mind those boms are probably complete bullshit.

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

Here's the actual link to the Reddit rumour:

It's a wrap, folks!

 

[SonGoku]

Here's the actual link to the Reddit rumour:

does he have a track record?

 

[CyberPanda]

does he have a track record?

Here's all his comments. Good luck. lol

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

 

[SonGoku]

Here's all his comments. Good luck. lol

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

Yeah.. smells like fakesider

 

[CyberPanda]

Yeah.. smells like fakesider

I agree. He's only made one post about next-gen, and the rest are about Sports.

 

[SonGoku]

Sports you say?

 

[CyberPanda]

Sports you say?

Ugh, kill me.

 

[DemonCleaner]

Initial BoM Losses: Xbox-Next & PS5 (Poll)

What initial losses do you expect Sony (PS5) and/or Microsoft (Xbox-Next) would eat in BoM cost? Prior Initial BoM Losses Xbox: No data available. Xbox 360: $125-$252 per unit ($525 - $552 BoM / $299 No HDD / $399 HDD) Xbox One: $33 per unit (457 + $75 Kinect BoM / $499) Xbox One X: None ($442...

forum.beyond3d.com

what a bunch bullshit. please don't spread this further when it's obvious the author doesn't has basic economic knowledge.
if you want to sell your console for $400 (vat excluded) without loss your BOM must in no case be bigger than $350 and even that is likely stretching it a bit.

 

[SonGoku]

what a bunch bullshit. please don't spread this further when it's obvious the author doesn't has basic economic knowledge.
if you want to sell your console for $400 (vat excluded) without loss your BOM must in no case be bigger than $350 and even that is likely stretching it a bit.

So i should add disclaimer of further hidden costs, i see no reason to discard the whole thing unless the numbers are wrong
edit: The author never claimed ps4 sold without loss, it says in the tittle BOM Losses, so its technically correct

 

[DemonCleaner]

wanted to ask this for a long time: can you educate me who this Klobrille guy is and why he should be trusted?

So i should add disclaimer of further hidden costs, i see no reason to discard the whole thing unless the numbers are wrong

if the author doesn't provide sources or ways he came up for his figures and undergoes a pretty serious logical flaw i would say yeah better discard the whole thing

edit: The author never claimed ps4 sold without loss, it says in the tittle BOM Losses, so its technically correct

BOM losses what should that even mean? the flaw in his arguing is that he put the selling price against cost on sony's side. volume times selling price is money that sony will never acutally see. there's dealerside expenses and margin (even if that is relativly small compared to other electronics). on a $400 price point sony shouldn't see more than around $370 of that. from which they do not only have to pay the BOM but also handling and shipping and assembly cost.

 

[MB1]

Sports you say?

Thanks for reminding me we're still waiting for the Halo tv series.

 

[SonGoku]

wanted to ask this for a long time: can you educate me who this Klobrille guy is and why he should be trusted?

Some wannabe ms insider from reeera

if the author doesn't provide sources

Here

Spoiler

Nothing is 100% official unless stated by Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo. And some BoM pricing may-not take into consideration contracts dealing with bulk/volume pricing. That being said, the majority of BoM data that I have provided here and within the General Console Info Thread, are sourced from three sites (below) on providing some ideas on BoM ranges.
https://technology.ihs.com
https://electronics360.globalspec.com
https://www.techinsights.com

undergoes a pretty serious logical flaw i would say yeah better discard the whole thing

He didn't though, maybe he should add a disclaimer to avoid confusion.

BOM losses what should that even mean?

No BOM loss means the console didn't go for less than the BOM
A disclaimer suffices to remember people there's hidden costs (retailer, shipping, packaging etc) so that its not misleading.

Thanks for reminding me we're still waiting for the Halo tv series.

I know right! I genuinely enjoyed previous Halo mini series and was looking forward to this one

 

[TLZ]

wanted to ask this for a long time: can you educate me who this Klobrille guy is and why he should be trusted?

You can ask him here yourself. Paging Braldryr

 

[SonGoku]

OMFG I though tlw was being paranoid
I didn't actually believe Klobrille would come to GaF to spread his usual fud

 

[DemonCleaner]

He didn't though,

well he did, like i explained. you can't put up sony cost against revenue of the dealer. and conclude sony doesn't make a loss. that's logical flaw no matter how one spins it.


disclaimer: im not saying sony made a loss with ps4. they didn't!!

No BOM loss means the console didn't go for less than the BOM

yeah i know what was meant. it was a rhetorically phrase, expressing that i don't think that this figure makes much sense. (but i might change my mind about that if somebody gives me a valid point)

 

[CrustyBritches]

Isn't "proelite" a B3D member and also a user here on GAF under a different username?

AdoredTV and Apisak's Gonzalo are still the best leaks I've seen. People will have the usual confirmation bias and follow the leaks that support their notions. Computex and e3 will show us what Navi and Zen 2 are really made of.

 

[sinnergy]

In theory MS should have the upper hand in Power because of the blades construction in servers, as you buy in larger volumes from vendors, it’s not that hard to understand. A pretty smart decision business wise.

 

[CyberPanda]

Isn't "proelite" a B3D member and also a user here on GAF under a different username?

AdoredTV and Apisak's Gonzalo are still the best leaks I've seen. People will have the usual confirmation bias and follow the leaks that support their notions. Computex and e3 will show us what Navi and Zen 2 are really made of.

I think Pro Elite posts on Reeee. I remember seeing that username floating around on that site, not too sure though.

 

[CyberPanda]

Zen 2 info:





lol new pastebin:

I could not go into specifics, because I don´t know them.
They were very confidential regarding any specifics.

But I was told that the early Xbox dev kits were overall
arround 1/3 faster than the Playstation 5 dev kits.
The only snippet I got was that the Xbox seems to count
on a different architecture and not on any up to date announced
architecture from AMD.

Xbox Anaconda / Lockhart - Pastebin.com

Pastebin.com is the number one paste tool since 2002. Pastebin is a website where you can store text online for a set period of time.

pastebin.com

These are getting hilarious, and all these rumours are getting out of hand.

 

[DeepEnigma]

In theory MS should have the upper hand in Power because of the blades construction in servers, as you buy in larger volumes from vendors, it’s not that hard to understand. A pretty smart decision business wise.

Sony has been running PS3/PS4 blades for years with PSNow as well, and have almost 100m consoles sold on top of that. So this seems like silly reasoning to base on their next console power tap.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Zen 2 info:





lol new pastebin:

Xbox Anaconda / Lockhart - Pastebin.com

Pastebin.com is the number one paste tool since 2002. Pastebin is a website where you can store text online for a set period of time.

pastebin.com

These are getting hilarious, and all these rumours are getting out of hand.

Unknown, never seen architecture??

 

[CyberPanda]

Isn't "proelite" a B3D member and also a user here on GAF under a different username?

AdoredTV and Apisak's Gonzalo are still the best leaks I've seen. People will have the usual confirmation bias and follow the leaks that support their notions. Computex and e3 will show us what Navi and Zen 2 are really made of.

He posts on Reee.

 

[CrustyBritches]

He posts on Reee.

Nice find. That's who I was thinking of from B3D. Not saying he is the leaker, just that I've seen that username from the reddit post.

 

[CyberPanda]

Nice find. That's who I was thinking of from B3D. Not saying he is the leaker, just that I've seen that username from the reddit post.

 

[ResilientBanana]

This used to be fun, but there are so many leaks now that it’s hard to take seriously.

 

[CyberPanda]

This used to be fun, but there are so many leaks now that it’s hard to take seriously.

Lol

 

[TeamGhobad]

Here's the actual link to the Reddit rumour:

I believe this. MS is the master of fuckups. Once again they put a bunch of shit not needed for games in their console. If sony garantees me that their games wont be censored im jumping ship. Had enough of this bullshit.

 

[xool]

From the reddit thread early today...

Details on the next-gen consoles and devkits, don't ask how I know:

Phil really fought hard for the concept of a loss-leading Anaconda by positioning the device as a value add to the company as a whole. The silicon inside the next Xboxes will be dual-purposed for Azure compute in server blades.
Because of this they thought they had the power advantage over the PS5 since they were certain Sony will repeat the same strategy as the PS4.

Sony however is also going for a loss-leading platform. They saw the difference in reception between the pro and the 1X and is focused on not giving up much if any performance edge to their competition.
So both consoles will have similar bom (bill of manufacture). The chips in Anaconda unfortunately are hampered by the need to cater to Azure workloads, meaning that it'll have silicon devoted to FP64, and also machine learning, that is not utilizable by game engines currently.

This results in the PS5 devkits currently with a 20-30% perf advantage against Anaconda. MS is aware and might try to push the clocks, but there isn't much wiggle room as both companies are already pushing the limits of console tdp and heat. They might be content in w/e happening as they're partners with Sony now.

PS: Specs in OP are fake. Don't expect consoles to be north of 12 TF

The idea of trying to put a FP64 optimised server part in a home console is so totally fucking nuts it makes me wonder if there's truth in this rumour - you'd have to be literally batshit crazy to make that up ...

 

[ethomaz]

Zen 2 info:





lol new pastebin:

Xbox Anaconda / Lockhart - Pastebin.com

Pastebin.com is the number one paste tool since 2002. Pastebin is a website where you can store text online for a set period of time.

pastebin.com

These are getting hilarious, and all these rumours are getting out of hand.

Yeap AMD has a new unknown architecture that is no x86_64 and GPU not GCN related.