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[Nobody_Important]

In my personal opinion, if you, as an adult person really care that a MERMAID in a Disney film, something that doesn't exist is being played by a black actress, you might carry more prejudice that you actually think you do. Racism isn't an on and off switch. It's a scale. Be careful to not fall on it.

Well said.

 

[Airbus Jr]

 

[Airbus Jr]

I don't think anyone is being serious.
I just enjoy hot red heads.

At least Aquaman had me covered.

 

[nkarafo]

Princess and the Frog is riddled with black cultural references, what part of the little mermaid is embedded in White Culture?

So it would be bad to make her white because of the black cultural references in the story?

Then you agree a black Achilles in a Greek mythological story that is a huge part of the Greek culture should not be OK?

 

[Airbus Jr]

And people are having strokes about her being black.

Listen folks. Ariel's color has nothing to do with her character. She's a Mermaid, that has and always was the point. She can be any color just as long as she's a Mermaid.

"BUt whAT if tHeY mAde Princess Tiana whITe?!"

First of all Princess Tiana being black plays into her story and where the story takes place. It's part of her character and is integral. The original Princess and the Frog story featured a white woman, yes. But Disney's version of the story only uses the "Princess" and "Frog" concept as a basis, the actual story, characters and setting couldn't be more different and is not even close to being a retelling of the story..... even more than the other Princess movies they've made (Go read the ORIGINAL Little Mermaid story and scar your childhood).

Ariel's skin color never mattered. Doesn't matter now honestly. It's not tied to her character in any character or story related way. That's when it's bad to change a characters race. When it's integral to them.

Also Disney already made a black Cinderella. Guess what? Didn't change anything. Cinderella was Cinderella. In 1997.

But this was always funny.

 

[BlackBuzzard]

No wonder Johnny let himself get abused by her.

 

[nkarafo]

I'm not going to put much time discussing this with grown men crying about a singing cartoon mermaid, but that's not at alm similar.
Was her name White Ariel?
They're not changing Snow White or Hitler, they won't replace us when whiteness is vital to the role.

Well, they did change Achilles though.

A Greek mythological warrior. A very important Greek culture icon.

But you know what they said then? He Is nOt rEaL...

I guess culture didn't matter in this case.

The double standards are always real and present in all cases.

 

[Uhtred]

 

[Airbus Jr]

 

[Thurible]

She was cast because she's a minority, you can be confident of that. That's not to say she won't be good in the role though.

Well, I hope not. That would be extremely unfair to her as an actress and doing it just to have a minority lead would arguably be racist.

 

[jufonuk]

Anna Kendrick

 

[AfricanKing]

So it would be bad to make her white because of the black cultural references in the story?

Then you agree a black Achilles in a Greek mythological story that is a huge part of the Greek culture should not be OK?

Is this were you interject the Troy War film done by the BBC because they had a Black man play Achilles..

Is this also were you forget to mention that Dark Skinned North Africans fought in that war and Black people lived and worked in Ancient Greek as detailed by Homer himself.

Keep in mind that some people take a rough translation of Achilles having blonde hair as truth but forget that Homer also describes Odysseus's as Black Skinned. And Homer is only portraying his own version of Achilles they never met and Homer himself is blind .. so they say

 

[Javthusiast]

Anna Kendrick

Hot thicc mermaid? I'm in.

 

[petran79]

At least remove her shell bra so we can see her tits

 

[Panda1]

Mulan is set in China and is Chinese, a fiction based on a real place and people.
Belle is French and the setting is France, a real people and a real place.
Jasmine is Arab, and the people of Alladin are based on real people.
Cinderella is European and the story is based in Europe.
Mowgli is Indian, a fictional character based on a real group of people and country.

Ariel is a mermaid. A completely fictional race of humanoid not based on any real humans. If anything, they're based off of stories from horny sailors thinking seaweed covered manatees are hot chicks. If any movie can take liberties of deviation from the original animation, this is the one.

Exactly and so they should have cast a minority in Hollywood then - an south east asian or Indian.
Blacks are over-represented and white women so dont give me that having a black female has ANYTHING to do with real diversity just as OP says - they going for MAXIMUM WOKENESS!!

 

[WinterIsComing]

It's not that hard to make live-action characters look as close to what you think of when you hear their names.
In the same way it would be pathetic to cast a white guy to play Black Panther, it's silly to cast a black woman to play Ariel, and it's racist to cast a black man to play Kingpin.
It's not like you're inventing the characters to make this movie, they're based on something that already exists, so just make them as they already are (were).

 

[lock2k]

Why not cast Jane Levy instead? Fuck you, Disney.

 

[Javthusiast]

Fuck disney in general tbh.

 

[RokkanStoned]

And you did not answer my questions so let me help you out.

Witch doctors
VooDoo
JuJu

I did answer it, Lutheranism, Greek mythology, European clothing, European architecture.
Really, the Princess and the Frog never makes a case for why Tiana couldn't be palate swapped, despite VooDoo being an element of the story. That's without considering that the Haitian culture was a mix of catholic influence and that "Witch Doctors", "VooDoo" and "JuJu" have similar counterparts in European culture as well. Tricksters are generally found in all cultures as well. And the fact that it is an European fairy tale. That's something that
This is all just moving the goalposts, trying to justify blackwashing while crying foul about whitewashing.

This is Triton btw:

Dr Facilier’s archetype is literally built around the Ghanian trickster Figure Ananci. You would be a fool to think that none of that is part of African or Black Culture to some point. If you replaced the Princess with a white one you would instantly know something is out of place because of the cultural ques they drew from

Replace the Little Mermaid with a black lead and you wont know none the wiser. The concept of Mermaids come from around the World and started in the Middle East.

So I'll ask again which part of The little Mermaid portrays white culture ?

No, you wouldn't. That's Dr Facilier, while Tiana is never actually in any shape of form presented in a way that she without doubt has to be black, outside it being the skin tone they chose for her. On the other hand we have Triton established in the story, an important greek mythological figure. It's basically the same.
Also, sorry to tell you but please tell me a bit more about "the Middle East". Tell me the difference between a Greek person or Turkish or Iranian.

Also, you could palette swap Tiana just as easily. You could even palette swap the Dr Facilier, you could just swap over the whole setting, which technically has already happened.

And you might want to Google Mami Wata before you start thinking it's a Welsh tale.

That's a single Deity, not really a mermaid in the perspective of the European mythology, which is the actual setting of The Little Mermaid, with all the corresponding Western European elements. As I've mentioned, the Prince in the original story is never directly stated as being white and was a much better case to "blackwash", even though that would also be against Disney's own interpretation.
Did you also know that a lot of "African mermaids" are white? Some aren't even fish tailed as well.

And what does this matter unless you think a fictional mermaid has to be white?

A fictional mermaid taking place in Europe should definitely be white in the original setting, considering that's the actual basis for the story and that's how the source material also defines the character. It's a cultural product of European culture and the mermaid kingdom is a derivative of European mythology.

This is pretty showing in my opinion, "oh no this is black", "oh but that can be anything, not only white". Really, most stories can be palette swaps, especially since there are so many cultural similarities around the world. Now what's important is which principal you'll follow, the palette swap (can be anyone) or staying true to source material.
Now, I'm on the side that I prefer staying close to the source material, presenting characters as they originally were, and rather that being transformative should be how adaptations of it should be, like how Princess and the Frog transformed an European fairy tale to an appropriate setting and changed a lot about it. This case gets even more egregious because Ariel has already within Disney's own adaptation been white and redheaded and connected to a European area with Greek divinity.
I don't think Tiana should be whitewashed, just like I don't think Ariel should be blackwashed. Staying characters true to their original and not treating this as "colorblindness", which I'm sure is a thing that you object to.

 

[lock2k]

Mulan is set in China and is Chinese, a fiction based on a real place and people.
Belle is French and the setting is France, a real people and a real place.
Jasmine is Arab, and the people of Alladin are based on real people.
Cinderella is European and the story is based in Europe.
Mowgli is Indian, a fictional character based on a real group of people and country.

Ariel is a mermaid. A completely fictional race of humanoid not based on any real humans. If anything, they're based off of stories from horny sailors thinking seaweed covered manatees are hot chicks. If any movie can take liberties of deviation from the original animation, this is the one.

OK, let's turn Mickey into a dog because it's a made up creature

 

[Verdanth]

Seriously Disney, go fuck yourself.

Kids these days need to get a VHS and watch the classics.

Forget this new bullshit.

 

[Schrödinger's cat]

Loving the hypocrisy and the defence of it.
If I ever had a shred of doubt as to how little integrity people had about 'the greater good' and were all just 'my way is the only thing that matters' then the usual suspects in this thread confirm it.
Zero logical consistency. Just ego stroking.

Of course, the real zinger will come a year after this movie comes out.
When a kid dresses up as Ariel and gets slammed for cultural appropriation.
And you'll see the same voices cheering this thread doing the slamming.

...

Have the virtue-signalling internet gutter-press started their parade of bashing criticism of this as 'proof' of some racial toxicity narrative yet?

 

[Liamario]

Well, I hope not. That would be extremely unfair to her as an actress and doing it just to have a minority lead would arguably be racist.

I'm telling you now that that is exactly what they did. 10 years ago they wouldn't have considered doing this for a moment. Disney are better of pushing diversity with original stories and characters.

 

[RokkanStoned]

Disney are better of pushing diversity with original stories and characters.

Definitely they are and there's a lot of African folklore (also African history is woefully underappreciated in Hollywood) and stories they could use, but they're probably not gonna do that. That's too risky, better just milk established characters and change them for virtue points (and new merchandise!!!). That's because this is mostly aimed towards America still. Disney would do better by perhaps starting an African studio and investing in talent from Africa, instead of this farce. But they won't.

 

[Contica]

At first I was eyerolling the complete change of an iconic character eacter this will require, then I thought about it.

These live action remakes of classic works of art is generally taking a piss on something beautiful in the name of profit, might as well change them up as much as possible so the classics are tarnished less.

 

[Texas Pride]

Let's be honest I'm not going to watch it either way but having seen the original as a kid this is bullshit. Call it whatever you want but it's pandering at the very least and double standards with a side of hypocrisy at worst.

 

[12Goblins]

Maybe they instructed them to hire a ginger, but the guy taking notes was dyslexic?

 

[deriks]

Maybe they instructed them to hire a ginger, but the guy taking notes was dyslexic?

 

[lock2k]

Maybe they instructed them to hire a ginger, but the guy taking notes was dyslexic?

I just got the joke... I feel so dumb. lol

 

[DisguiseArrsick]

I always saw Isla Fisher as Ariel.
Too old now but the still, the image of Ariel kinda sticks, ya can't mess with it.

Yes to Isla Fisher. I always thought the same. When she played Shannon in Home & Away all those years ago I thought she would have made the perfect Ariel.

 

[Cunth]

I still don’t get that joke. Can someone spell it out

 

[DeafTourette]

They can dye her locks red. There's nothing preventing them from doing that.

I've known about Halle (and her sister Chloe) for a long time now. She has an AMAZING voice! I'm looking forward to seeing this. And she's pretty good in "Grown-ish" on Freeform.

Yo da seaweed iz always greener
In somebody else's lake
You dream 'boutgoing up dere
But dat be uh big mistake
Just peep at da world around you
Right here on da ocean floor
Such fly things surround you
What mo' iz you lookin' fo'?
Under da sea
Under da sea
Darling it's bettah
Down where it's wetter
Take it from me
Up on da shore dey werk all day
Out in da sun dey slave away
While we's devotin'
Full tyme ta floatin'
Under da sea sho 'nuff!

Yo Down here all da fish iz happy
As off through da waves dey roll
da fish on da land ain't happy
dey sad 'cause dey in they bowl
But fish in da bowl iz lucky
dey in fo' uh worser fate
One day when da boss git hungry
Guess who's gon' be on da plate?
Under da sea
Under da sea
Nobody beat us
Fry us an' eat us
In fricassee
we's what da land folks loves ta cook
Under da sea we's off da hook
we's gots nahh troubles
Life iz da bubbles
Under da sea (Under da sea)
Under da sea (Under da sea)
Since life iz sweet here
we's gots da beat here
Naturally (Naturally)
Even da sturgeon an' da ray
dey git da urge 'n' start ta play
we's gots da spirit
You gots ta hear it
Under da sea
da newt play da flute
da carp play da harp
da plaice play da bass
an' dey soundin' sharp
da bass play da brass
da chub play da tub
da fluke iz da duke o' soul
(Yeah)
da ray he can play
da lings on da strings
da trout rockin' out
da blackfish she sings
da smelt an' da sprat
dey know where it's at
An' awww dat blowfish blow
Yeah, under da sea (Under da sea)
Under da sea (Under da sea)
When da sardine
Begin da beguine
It's rap ta me (It's rap ta me)
What do dey got? uh lot o' sand
we's gots uh hot crustacean gang
Each little clam here
Know how ta jam here
Under da sea
Each little slug here
Cuttin' uh rug here
Under da sea
Each little snail here
Know how ta wail here
dat's why it's hotter
Under da water
Ya we's in luck here
Down in da muck here
Under da sea with muh beeotch

I usually dislike the assumption that because she's black and sings that this ^^ is how she must sing...

This is her and her sister in a music video from a song they wrote in 2016. No "beeotch" or "da" or any of that "stereotypical black speech" you seemed to imply...

 

[lock2k]

They can dye her locks red. There's nothing preventing them from doing that.

I've known about Halle (and her sister Chloe) for a long time now. She has an AMAZING voice! I'm looking forward to seeing this. And she's pretty good in "Grown-ish" on Freeform.





I usually dislike the assumption that because she's black and sings that this ^^ is how she must sing...

This is her and her sister in a music video from a song they wrote in 2016. No "beeotch" or "da" or any of that "stereotypical black speech" you seemed to imply...

Why the fuck do they have earrings in their hair?

It reminds me of Kriss Kross backwards pants (failed attempt at fashion).

 

[Schrödinger's cat]

I still don’t get that joke. Can someone spell it out

 

[Vampire On Titus]

Have the virtue-signalling internet gutter-press started their parade of bashing criticism of this as 'proof' of some racial toxicity narrative yet?

There was that one moment of clarity within the woke press. When a reboot for Buffy The Vampire Slayer was announced with a black lead. All of a sudden, once it was something they cared about, they started making the exact same arguments they call fans of other series' racist for making.

No, I Don’t Want a Black Buffy Reboot, and Here’s Why - The Mary Sue

...not only am I not interested in a reboot, but this move to make the lead black—as reported by Deadline—is just a bad move on multiple levels for me. Don’t get me wrong; it’s not inclusive casting that I’m objecting to. I just want black women to get their own stories.

This is literally the "make original POC characters" argument.

Buffy Summers, as played by Sarah Michelle Gellar, was a rebooted character herself, improving upon the 1992 film that starred Kristy Swanson, and over the course of seven seasons, that version of Buffy was the one people have connected with and out of whom this huge fandom has grown. Sarah Michelle Gellar is Buffy. Any African-American actress who enters this role is forever going to be known as “Black Buffy,” and that’s something I find frustrating.

This is pretty much my exact point about when characters become iconic. It's not that Ariel has to be a white mermaid with red hair. It's that Ariel IS a white mermaid with red hair. If you drastically change her aesthetic you're no longer doing that character. The new one will always been seen as "black Ariel" or if the movie really sucks "that time they did a black Ariel."

So these people are totally capable of getting it. It's just they only seem to care when it's one of the few social justice approved franchises they actually care about.

 

[Deleted member 738976]

They can dye her locks red. There's nothing preventing them from doing that.

I've known about Halle (and her sister Chloe) for a long time now. She has an AMAZING voice! I'm looking forward to seeing this. And she's pretty good in "Grown-ish" on Freeform.





I usually dislike the assumption that because she's black and sings that this ^^ is how she must sing...

This is her and her sister in a music video from a song they wrote in 2016. No "beeotch" or "da" or any of that "stereotypical black speech" you seemed to imply...

Don't blame me blame these things.

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So lighten up a little and have fun with the lyrics.

 

[TheShadowLord]

When DC does a better job at imitating Ariel in Aquaman than Disney in this movie

Funny how you mentioned DC because Aquaman because is supposed to be white and have blonde hair. No one seemed bothered by Mamoa playing as Aquaman. Otherwise, there would have been a thread about it.

 

[GymWolf]

My kids love Ariel. They will be like, who the fuck is this bitch

 

[Da-Kid]

A lot of you guys are just racist... And talking about this woman's hair, saying it looks like shit just reminds me of how racist white people talked about our cultural hairstyles as if they were below some standard. You lot are disgusting.

 

[DeafTourette]

Don't blame me blame these things.

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So lighten up a little and have fun with the lyrics.

That's not what I'm talking about. Why was your first thought "she's black and sings ... So she must sing in AAVE!"

Why the fuck do they have earrings in their hair?

It reminds me of Kriss Kross backwards pants (failed attempt at fashion).

They're called lock rings or beads.

 

[5secondrulesucks]

In my personal opinion, if you, as an adult person really care that a MERMAID in a Disney film, something that doesn't exist is being played by a black actress, you might carry more prejudice that you actually think you do. Racism isn't an on and off switch. It's a scale. Be careful to not fall on it.

YOU JUST DONT TURN IT OFF

 

[Airbus Jr]

A lot of you guys are just racist... And talking about this woman's hair, saying it looks like shit just reminds me of how racist white people talked about our cultural hairstyles as if they were below some standard. You lot are disgusting.

 

[TTOOLL]

Disney

 

[lock2k]

That's not what I'm talking about. Why was your first thought "she's black and sings ... So she must sing in AAVE!"




They're called lock rings or beads.

Didn't know that, thanks for the info.

 

[DeafTourette]

He's talking about the posts (thankfully only a few) saying her hair looks ugly.

It's a long held thing where natural African American hair styles are said to be "unprofessional" ... Yet white employees can have their hair styles any way they want without being reprimanded for it. There have been cases (legal ones) where a former employee sued their ex-bosses for firing them because of wearing their natural hair styles (and before you or anyone says it... Yes, black people can wash their dreadlocks and they don't come undone). This was also challenged in the military.

It's a huge reason why black women straighten their hair or wear weave and wigs. "Professional look".

 

[DeepEnigma]

Is this really what passes for hot now?

 

[lock2k]

Don't blame me blame these things.

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So lighten up a little and have fun with the lyrics.

My sides hurt, thank you:

yOyo Da $no Glowss White-a$$ awnnn da MountaINN TonighT
not Uh FOotprintt 22 B $een
aaaa KingDom O'' iSolatIon
and It lOoKs LiKEE AH'm Daaa QUEen
tHE WiND iZZZ HoWlIn Like dis $wirLInn $Torm INSIde
couLdn'tt Keep It Yn, HeavEnnn KNoWs ah'veeee Tried
don'T Lett dEm YN,, Don't Let Demm $ee
bE DAA TygHt GuURl U ALways Hv 2 Be
CoNCeal,,, doN't fel, DOn't Let DeM Know
WEll, NWW DEAyYY KNOw
LET It Goe, let iTTTTTT GO
caN'T Hold It bakkk aNYMORe
let It Goe,, LET it go
tUrnn aWaaYy An'' $laM Da DoOR
i DOn't CARe Wut Deayy'RE Gon 2 $ay
lEt Da $toRmm Rage On
thE BRick NeVAAA botHered Me AnYway
leTT It Goe,, Let Itt Go
can't hOlDD Itt Bakk aNyMORE
leT IT Goe, Let ITT go
tuRn AWAAyyy An' $lAm Da DOOr
LEt ittt Goe (gO,,,,,, GoE, gOe Go,, Goeeee Go, gOE Go, Goe, GOE, GOee GO)
lEt Ittt Go
leT IT Go
leT ITT GO
it'$ FUnnY…

______________________________________________________

Yo dere's uh calm surrender
ta da rush o' day
When da heat o' uh rolling wave
Can be turned away
An enchanted moment
an' it sees me through
It's enough fo' dis here restless warrior
Just ta be wif you
an' can you feel da love tonight?
It iz where we's is
It's enough fo' dis here wide-eyed wanderer
dat we's've gots dis here far
an' can you feel da love tonight? (Tonight)
How it's laid ta rest?
It's enough ta make kings an' vagabonds
Believe da very bomb
dere's uh tyme fo' brothas
If dey only learn
dat da twisting kaleidoscope
Moves us all in turn
dere's uh rhyme an' reason
ta da wild outdoors
When da heart o' dis here star-crossed voyager
Beats in tyme wif yours
an' can… peep this shit

 

[Airbus Jr]

He's talking about the posts (thankfully only a few) saying her hair looks ugly.

It's a long held thing where natural African American hair styles are said to be "unprofessional" ... Yet white employees can have their hair styles any way they want without being reprimanded for it. There have been cases (legal ones) where a former employee sued their ex-bosses for firing them because of wearing their natural hair styles (and before you or anyone says it... Yes, black people can wash their dreadlocks and they don't come undone). This was also challenged in the military.

It's a huge reason why black women straighten their hair or wear weave and wigs. "Professional look".

Sory to hear that love

I wish companies and work office would give more freedom in the future when it comes to hairstyles

 

[WinterIsComing]

He's talking about the posts (thankfully only a few) saying her hair looks ugly.

So a black guy saying some white woman has ugly hair is also considered racist? Interesting.

It's a huge reason why black women straighten their hair or wear weave and wigs. "Professional look".

Black women straightening their hair is cultural appropriation.

 

[nkarafo]

Is this really what passes for hot now?

Dunno if it's hot. It is useful though. You can see potential predators or prey from both sides.