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[Acidizer]

I loved TNO and it was my GOTY that year, platinumed it, bought the DLC and was left wanting more. It felt so silky in the hands, like a shooter from yesteryear - lots of fluid running and gunning and hip firing - perfect.

I only played a couple of hours on TNC as I was so turned off by the controls and the unbalanced difficulty. I couldn't believe it! WTF had they done to the perfect controls, now it felt like I had to 'aim down sights' like a COD game. On top of that I was getting blasted away every few seconds on a low difficulty level. I tinkered with the sensitivity in options but couldn't get anything satisfactory. So I abandoned it.

TNC in my mind (only 2-3 hours of play mind you, so a little unfair) was undoubtedly the inferior game. So why the significant disparity in the review scores, using Metacritic just quickly...

The New Order 79
The New Colossus 87

So was TNC rewarded in its review scores for the SJW agenda that a lot of gaming outlets have without question adopted? I would hate to think so, this means (in my mind) an inferior game had been rewarded for shoehorning in a narrative which really has no place in gaming.

Unless of course people think TNC has better mechanics than the first game (very hard to believe). I didn't experience much of the story, and I would have let it go over my head or skipped it if it was overbearing, but I hope reviewers didn't give this a more glowing review than it deserved, especially compared to its predecessor, for bullshit non-gaming reasons.

I didn't even read any reviews for this game as the original was so perfect, I pre-ordered it immediately, and I want to make clear I found the game awful for its mechanics, not the story, which I didn't really experience. But this occurred to me and it is a bit worrying considering its ability to warp review scores - and much more worrying - actual games!

 

[FranXico]

There were a lot of reviews touting how "killing Nazis is so satisfying!", IIRC.

What exactly is in the game that would please them though?

 

[The Cockatrice]

What exactly was the SJW agenda in the game, can you give some examples because I've seen none. Yes it does seem to empower the women more but that's about it and it wasn't exaggerated. My guess the higher score is the fact that it's a lot more story focused and for critics that's a plus. I had no issues with the gameplay, it was as fun as the previous 2 games and not to mention a lot of scenes were hillarious af (hitler scene).

 

[Acidizer]

What exactly was the SJW agenda in the game, can you give some examples because I've seen none. Yes it does seem to empower the women more but that's about it and it wasn't exaggerated. My guess the higher score is the fact that it's a lot more story focused and for critics that's a plus. I had no issues with the gameplay, it was as fun as the previous 2 games and not to mention a lot of scenes were hillarious af (hitler scene).

Hopefully someone who has completed it can say - but it got a lot of flak for that...

... and as someone who platinumed the original and attempted (but failed) the same on its DLC, the gameplay in the sequel had been fucking GUTTED, imo it plays like absolute dogshit next to the original. Pretty clear they abandoned the DOOM style play and went for a more COD style of play - to reel in the masses I assume. Extremely disappointing. The change in gameplay was apparent from the very first minute with the game. That's my own feelings so course.

 

[The Wise Old Man]

Oh just fucking stop it already. There’s no SJW agenda in any goddamned wolfenstein game you simpering moron. People need to stop trying to make up something that doesn’t exist for fucks sake. It’s not helping your credibility.

 

[Cranberrys]

What SJW agenda ? Plus I Don't get all the hate for NC? I had great fun with the game, it was maybe more story focused than NC & OB (not really in my opinion), it's just that the game is more ambitious than the two previous episodes and it's probably Something the journalists liked.

 

[Acidizer]

Oh just fucking stop it already. There’s no SJW agenda in any goddamned wolfenstein game you simpering moron. People need to stop trying to make up something that doesn’t exist for fucks sake. It’s not helping your credibility.

Hey fuckwad, I explicitly asked a QUESTION and clearly stated that I had not experience the story or any SJW overtures. Switch your brain on. Imbecile.

 

[Typhares]

All I can say is TNO was amazing, TNC I finished after going on easy mode cause I couldn't be bothered.
The game itself is not SJW but some publication did push that angle at times. It s an inferior game to me so I can only disagree with the scores.

 

[Birdo]

Did it get Black Panthered? Probably not.

It did come out during that far-left "punch a conservative Nazi" thing. And I remember some of the reviews mentioning the dreaded "These times". So there is always a little chance that a few reviewers gave it a little bump.

 

[Jack Videogames]

I think it's sort of likely. After all, Days Gone got reviewbombed for not being woke enough. Even if the devs didn't want to push an agenda with TNC, which I personally think they did, some of the Usual Suspects certainly saw it that way. And I'm saying this as someone that liked the game and generally loves nazi-themed FPSs.

 

[The Wise Old Man]

Hey fuckwad, I explicitly asked a QUESTION and clearly stated that I had not experience the story or any SJW overtures. Switch your brain on. Imbecile.

Then why in fucks name are you attempting to start shit when there clearly isn’t anything there to even justify this silly internet hand wringing over a phantom SJW agenda? Seems stupid to me personally but hey what do I know....

 

[Acidizer]

Starting shit? Are you not capable of reading the OP before spilling bile and being a reactionary doofus?

TNC has been widely criticised - or not even criticised - commended - as having SJW fawnings/"progressive" storyline, depending on your stance. I said straight up I can't confirm this, but I can confirm the gameplay itself took a major nosedive, even forgiving the unbalanced difficulty which is in itself a big detriment to the game.

So I ask, why the big difference in the review scores, given the sequel plays so inferior, the review scores should be switched around based on gameplay ALONE... I am puzzled, hence the thread.

 

[The Wise Old Man]

Then why in fucks name are you attempting to start shit when there clearly isn’t anything there to even justify this silly internet hand wringing over a phantom SJW agenda? Seems stupid to me personally but hey what do I know....

Oh no wait I know quite a fucking lot. And I know a nonexistent basis for a thread when I see one, and you sir clearly do not. Egad man, SJW in a fucking wolfenstein game....

 

[Acidizer]

You seem demented, wise old man.

 

[M0G]

People just see what they (don't) want to see don't they?

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

There was something seriously off with the shooting in that game. I've said it before but the only way I could beat that fucking court level was to sprint around melee attacking enemies.

Definitely not worthy of the scores it garnered, in my opinion.

 

[JoeyWestSide]

Aiming down sights is a negative?

 

[Stuart360]

Did some of you even play the game?, educate yourselves -

 

[The Wise Old Man]

You seem demented, wise old man.

Just exhausted with threads like these hurting the credibility of a messageboard I’ve been part of for the better part of 15 years, that’s all.

 

[Acidizer]

Aiming down sights is a negative?

Not necessarily but the hip firing was way off which meant it was almost required. Which killed the run n gun aspect of the game outright. Now I needed to aim down sights for enemies that are clearly in hip firing range and has reduced the game to an ADS target practice slog. The exact opposite of what it should be, with it hailing from the DOOM era, and with the id connection.

 

[Acidizer]

There was something seriously off with the shooting in that game. I've said it before but the only way I could beat that fucking court level was to sprint around melee attacking enemies.

Definitely not worthy of the scores it garnered, in my opinion.

So glad somebody noticed it!

Very disappointing, I consider the gameplay of TNO to be PERFECT... then they served up this crap!

Leaves me wondering about the upcoming game. I seriously doubt they would revert back to the mechanics of the first game that got significantly lower review scores. Leaves me very sad!

 

[Saruhashi]

The Wise Old Man I don't really get the over the top reaction here. Surely easier to just say you don't think the game has an agenda than to go with "you simpering moron"?

If you don't think the OP is doing much for their own credibility then might I suggest looking in a mirror because you come off fucking terribly here.

A Acidizer

I think with a game like Wolfenstein it can be very difficult to say that it has an "agenda" when the core concepts behind the game are pretty wacky and out there. Without going into spoilers, there is stuff in The New Colossus that is totally and utterly ridiculous so it would be difficult to pinpoint where and how the game is pushing an agenda simply because the whole game is something of a parody.

When I played the game I honestly thought it came across as more likely to offend SJWs than to appeal directly to them. It's super violent, kind of mindlessly violent, at times and it could be said the game glorifies guns etc. Some of the character development felt to me like a criticism of extremists on the good guys side too.

Then there was the whole debacle over difficulty with people whining that instead of powerfully killing Nazis and feeling like a badass they were dying to Nazis and feeling like a chump. Kotaku especially got their panties in a bunch over the "Can I play, Daddy?" difficulty option.

"Sticking a bonnet on B.J. and infantilizing the player by analogy isn’t exactly an invitation to explore playing Wolfenstein 2 differently. Even just calling one difficulty setting “normal” implies the others are deviant. When you’re fighting to liberate the country from people who believe in eugenics in a game that celebrates difference and diversity, moralizing the difficulty around the struggle (easy equals lazy/bad, hard equals virtuous/good) feels archaic."

I don't think the game had an SJW agenda. I think it was exactly what the developers wanted it to be. A crazy action shooter set in an over the top world with over the top characters.

However, I do think there was some kind of attempt by SJWs to "claim" Wolfenstein 2 as a game that pushed their agenda. I think the marketing of the game maybe leaned into this a little but that's up to them if they want to market the game like that. Chances are most of those people are not going near an ultra violent 1st person shooter with a bit of difficulty anyway.

So maybe there is a negative reaction to that when you see annoying cunts banging on about how much they love this game, for reasons outside of gameplay etc and that sours your view of the game. I do not think the game itself had an agenda to push, really.

My own opinion is that I feel this one would actually appeal more to anti-SJWs with the crazy and over the top atmosphere and action and violence and the way the game is almost a parody of the "punch a Nazi" thing. I mean there is so much of the game where NOBODY could possibly take what's happening seriously so I don't see how that appeals to people who are dead serious about "Trumps America" being a country run by Nazis.


Regarding review scores. Definitely I can see some validity to the claim that reviewers could bump the score up by a few points if they perceive that the game is pushing their agenda.

Sometimes it seems like games such as Days Gone and FarCry 5 had their card market early on and of course were openly criticized for not doing the right thing or toeing the line.

With FarCry 5 especially I think the game shares some aspects with TNC in that it has that over the top action and crazy larger than life characters. FC5 was roundly criticized for "not taking a stand" or "not taking sides" so you can make what you will of that.

So, yes, it's possible that a bunch of reviewers saw "it's a game where you kill Nazis" and felt some kind of obligation to inflate the scores. I know a lot of people have this idea in their heads than "manbabies" are crying into their pillows at night because certain things are popular so again I could see a few spiteful points being added to a review score based on that.

I'm not sure it really matters though.

 

[The Cockatrice]

Did some of you even play the game?, educate yourselves -

I am in no way supportive of forced political shit but these kind of videos are so stupid and far fetched that they see everything as SJW. Hell if Mass Effect trilogy came out today this guy would probably destroy and call it SJW as well. Also the fact that he starts the video that he's not a pro Trump supporter is clear indication where the video is going. The villain is literally a woman. Complains that the bad guy, BJ's dad, is SJW propaganda because he's a white male. What the fuck is this dumb shit? I hate people who see politics in every game just as much as I hate people who force politics in games. Luckily Wolfenstein is not a forced SJW propaganda.

 

[Saruhashi]

Just exhausted with threads like these hurting the credibility of a messageboard I’ve been part of for the better part of 15 years, that’s all.

Yeah, stuff like this really helps the messageboard.

"Oh just fucking stop it already. There’s no SJW agenda in any goddamned wolfenstein game you simpering moron. People need to stop trying to make up something that doesn’t exist for fucks sake. It’s not helping your credibility."

And that was your opener!

 

[JohnnyFootball]

All I can say is TNO was amazing, TNC I finished after going on easy mode cause I couldn't be bothered.
The game itself is not SJW but some publication did push that angle at times. It s an inferior game to me so I can only disagree with the scores.

I’d say this sums it up.

I started a replay of TNC on PC and I got to the district portion and I am simply not enjoying it all that much. Going through all the districts looking for collectibles with a broken stealth system was simply not fun and got real old real fast. The game did a lot of things that were fun, but it just didn’t click the way the first did.

I am trying to do a replay of TNO, but the PC version is so terrible I can’t even do that.

As for an SJW agenda, I didn’t see it in the game and felt it handled racism and anti-semiticism rather well. I didn’t even know it was “controversial” at the time it came out. I played it again and still don’t really get it.

I guess I’m glad I’m ignorant.

 

[Stuart360]

I am in no way supportive of forced political shit but these kind of videos are so stupid and far fetched that they see everything as SJW. Hell if Mass Effect trilogy came out today this guy would probably destroy and call it SJW as well. Also the fact that he starts the video that he's not a pro Trump supporter is clear indication where the video is going. The villain is literally a woman. Complains that the bad guy, BJ's dad, is SJW propaganda because he's a white male. What the fuck is this dumb shit? I hate people who see politics in every game just as much as I hate people who force politics in games. Luckily Wolfenstein is not a forced SJW propaganda.

Well i mean that fine but a lot of people picked up on it, including people in the media. Google it.

 

[angelic]

Tnc is massively full of progressive bs. I ignored it all, but you'd have to be blind not to see it.

 

[Acidizer]

The Wise Old Man I don't really get the over the top reaction here. Surely easier to just say you don't think the game has an agenda than to go with "you simpering moron"?

If you don't think the OP is doing much for their own credibility then might I suggest looking in a mirror because you come off fucking terribly here.

A Acidizer

I think with a game like Wolfenstein it can be very difficult to say that it has an "agenda" when the core concepts behind the game are pretty wacky and out there. Without going into spoilers, there is stuff in The New Colossus that is totally and utterly ridiculous so it would be difficult to pinpoint where and how the game is pushing an agenda simply because the whole game is something of a parody.

When I played the game I honestly thought it came across as more likely to offend SJWs than to appeal directly to them. It's super violent, kind of mindlessly violent, at times and it could be said the game glorifies guns etc. Some of the character development felt to me like a criticism of extremists on the good guys side too.

Then there was the whole debacle over difficulty with people whining that instead of powerfully killing Nazis and feeling like a badass they were dying to Nazis and feeling like a chump. Kotaku especially got their panties in a bunch over the "Can I play, Daddy?" difficulty option.

"Sticking a bonnet on B.J. and infantilizing the player by analogy isn’t exactly an invitation to explore playing Wolfenstein 2 differently. Even just calling one difficulty setting “normal” implies the others are deviant. When you’re fighting to liberate the country from people who believe in eugenics in a game that celebrates difference and diversity, moralizing the difficulty around the struggle (easy equals lazy/bad, hard equals virtuous/good) feels archaic."

I don't think the game had an SJW agenda. I think it was exactly what the developers wanted it to be. A crazy action shooter set in an over the top world with over the top characters.

However, I do think there was some kind of attempt by SJWs to "claim" Wolfenstein 2 as a game that pushed their agenda. I think the marketing of the game maybe leaned into this a little but that's up to them if they want to market the game like that. Chances are most of those people are not going near an ultra violent 1st person shooter with a bit of difficulty anyway.

So maybe there is a negative reaction to that when you see annoying cunts banging on about how much they love this game, for reasons outside of gameplay etc and that sours your view of the game. I do not think the game itself had an agenda to push, really.

My own opinion is that I feel this one would actually appeal more to anti-SJWs with the crazy and over the top atmosphere and action and violence and the way the game is almost a parody of the "punch a Nazi" thing. I mean there is so much of the game where NOBODY could possibly take what's happening seriously so I don't see how that appeals to people who are dead serious about "Trumps America" being a country run by Nazis.


Regarding review scores. Definitely I can see some validity to the claim that reviewers could bump the score up by a few points if they perceive that the game is pushing their agenda.

Sometimes it seems like games such as Days Gone and FarCry 5 had their card market early on and of course were openly criticized for not doing the right thing or toeing the line.

With FarCry 5 especially I think the game shares some aspects with TNC in that it has that over the top action and crazy larger than life characters. FC5 was roundly criticized for "not taking a stand" or "not taking sides" so you can make what you will of that.

So, yes, it's possible that a bunch of reviewers saw "it's a game where you kill Nazis" and felt some kind of obligation to inflate the scores. I know a lot of people have this idea in their heads than "manbabies" are crying into their pillows at night because certain things are popular so again I could see a few spiteful points being added to a review score based on that.

I'm not sure it really matters though.

Great points, especially the "claiming" of the game by outlets pushing an agenda. This is what they do, drumming up fake outrage - or praising something else as as brave, no matter how tenuous or what the original intent was. All for clicks.

I thought that the game would be more tongue in cheek than outright SJW bate, and you seem to have confirmed that. But I am just scratching my head to the bump in review scores, given I think it should be the other way around.

The game probably wasn't explicitly progressive or pandering, but it was political, and that bit was intentional, even if tongue in cheek. It brings attention to their game. I think they even parodied a Trump slogan.

I'd just HATE to think this was put on a pedestal for anything other than the actual game itself. That's a slippery slope.

 

[bumleforce]

Without a dought it was. Lots of games do. Miranda sanchez gave world at war more points for not have white males as a playable character. Why does that even matter? Anyway ya it does people always compare anything with nazies do to trump so anything where I kill them people are like ya f trump etc even though sjw warriors and people on the far left act more like nazies than people on the right. Regardless it never bothered me about the wolfenstein games. I played them they are 7s sorry for spelling. Wrote this at a stop light lol

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Well i mean that fine but a lot of people picked up on it, including people in the media. Google it.

And a lot of people have issues. That much is clear in today's world. How can I be offended or how can I be a victim. That's todays culture.

 

[petran79]

Those game story clips were beyond cringe

 

[#Phonepunk#]

nan this is paranoid thinking

 

[AV]

Well i mean that fine but a lot of people picked up on it, including people in the media. Google it.

Yeah, people and especially "the media" pick up on a lot of non-existent things.

Wolfenstein 2 does not have an "SJW agenda". Its story is a basically a trashy b-movie exploitation flick about nazis who dig up ancient monsters and have (had) a moon base. The main character (a straight white man by the way) is decapitated and after a drone catches his head, it is surgically re-attached to his body. There's a scene where Hitler shoots Reagan, who is auditioning for his play. A naked, pregnant lady massacres some soldiers and is promptly covered in their blood. It's outright shlock.

But they take a few jabs at Trump, and it's got a black woman in it, so it's essjaydubbyapropuhganda. Gimme a break.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Without a dought it was. Lots of games do. Miranda sanchez gave world at war more points for not have ehite males as a playable character. Why does that even matter? Anyway ya it does people always compare anything with nazies to trump so anything where I kill them people are like ya f trump etc even though sjw warriors and people on the far left act more like nazies than people on the right. Regardless it never bothered me about the eolfenstein games. I played them they are 7s

What language is this? Google translate can't even pick it up.

 

[Acidizer]

nan this is paranoid thinking

79 vs 87 is significant. Granted this is just a quick Metacritic glance. Maybe there are people who genuinely think that the second game plays better than the first, but I would be scratching my fucking head at that honestly.

Satisfaction levels from shooting enemies is how I judge shooters. TNO is perfect, TNC is genuinely awful. All my own opinion of course, but... damn. What a fall from grace, gameplay wise at least.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Yeah, people and especially "the media" pick up on a lot of non-existent things.

Wolfenstein 2 does not have an "SJW agenda". Its story is a basically a trashy b-movie exploitation flick about nazis who dig up ancient monsters and have (had) a moon base. The main character (a straight white man by the way) is decapitated and after a drone catches his head, it is surgically re-attached to his body. There's a scene where Hitler shoots Reagan, who is auditioning for his play. A naked, pregnant lady massacres some soldiers and is promptly covered in their blood. It's outright shlock.

But they take a few jabs at Trump, and it's got a black woman in it, so it's essjaydubbyapropuhganda. Gimme a break.

Nothing will beat Songoku claiming that Borderlands 3 was SJW.

 

[Väinömäinen]

 

[JohnnyFootball]

79 vs 87 is significant. Granted this is just a quick Metacritic glance. Maybe there are people who genuinely think that the second game plays better than the first, but I would be scratching my fucking head at that honestly.

Satisfaction levels from shooting enemies is how I judge shooters. TNO is perfect, TNC is genuinely awful. All my own opinion of course, but... damn. What a fall from grace, gameplay wise at least.

I felt the shooting was fine in TNC. What wasn't fine was the level design and the district padding structure. No new game+ also hurt TNC. It was so much fun going back through the earlier in game levels of TNO with all my perks maxed out. Couldn't do that in TNC.

 

[Omali]

Did some of you even play the game?, educate yourselves -

The anti-SJW Youtubers are even more cringeworthy than the subjects they make videos about. Talk about desperately trying to find something to be offended by.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Lefties should have been more offended by the game for the gratuitous sexualization of females. What was up with the lady shooting the guns with her breasts showing? Nothing but pure sexualization of females!

Also, perhaps the biggest social injustice was the inclusion of the Mein Leben trophy/achievement that requires you to beat the game in one sitting without dying. That was totally disrespectful to the "everybody gets a trophy" crowd. How is some poor kid who's only satisfaction in life is getting platinum trophies gonna handle that level of offense?

TNC isn't left SJW propaganda, it's actually a game that is very offensive.

Spoiler

sarcasm alert

 

[Acidizer]

I felt the shooting was fine in TNC. What wasn't fine was the level design and the district padding structure. No new game+ also hurt TNC. It was so much fun going back through the earlier in game levels of TNO with all my perks maxed out. Couldn't do that in TNC.

Did you play TNO? I played them back to back, in anticipation... man ,that was a big mistake.

Also "fine" doesn't really cut it when the predecessor was approaching GOAT levels of FPS controls. Didn't really get to judge the level design, I was so miffed about the controls and trying to improve them with the sensitivity options. I'd love to experience another Wolfenstien, but if this new one plays like TNC no chance sadly.

 

[Revolutionary]

This is the game with the pregnant topless chick going Rambo in one scene, right?

 

[888]

Wolfenstein 2 'is political' but 'isn't a commentary on current topics,' says dev

Machinegames talks about how Wolfenstein is and isn't getting political.

www.pcgamer.com

The Interviewer gave a stupid question saying the theme is relevant to today..

"So, over the past few months, what was the reaction to the team to all that, given that you’re handling a surprisingly relevant topic right now?"

"I don’t know, it’s an unexpected development for sure. It’s not something that has any real bearing on the game, because the game isn’t a commentary on current topics. But we always wanted to make… we are making a game about Nazis and Nazi ideology, so on some foundational level it is a political game. Or at least it is if you want to deal with those topics in some serious manner."

I can't say I was a fan of TNC anyways, it felt like it was a drag to play through. TNO tho, that was near perfection.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Did you play TNO? I played them back to back, in anticipation... man ,that was a big mistake.

Also "fine" doesn't really cut it when the predecessor was approaching GOAT levels of FPS controls. Didn't really get to judge the level design, I was so miffed about the controls and trying to improve them with the sensitivity options. I'd love to experience another Wolfenstien, but if this new one plays like TNC no chance sadly.

I played TNO on consoles quite a bit several years ago. I tried to replay it on PC, but it was just shit. The game is lacking so many basic graphical tweak options. No anti-aliasing made the game unplayable to me. I went on google looking for tweaking, but it's a common complaint that the PC version is bad. Whenever I tried to tweak the performance using ini tweaks, it would just tank the performance on my 2080 Ti.

 

[Mista]

If someone didn’t play the game can you please not speak because you “heard” from others? TNC was woke AF but I ignored because I was enjoying the game. Young Blood isn’t going to be any different but hey, if the game actually is fun I won’t skip

 

[funkygunther]

There were attempts to tie it to cultural relevance by both its corporate and influencer marketing and then the game was released and it turned out to be just a normal Wolfenstein game. That probably disappointed a lot of people expecting it to be an arm of their resistance.

 

[888]

If someone didn’t play the game can you please not speak because you “heard” from others? TNC was woke AF but I ignored because I was enjoying the game. Young Blood isn’t going to be any different but hey, if the game actually is fun I won’t skip

Yeah TNC was cringe loaded big time. I agree Youngblood is going to be the same but I got it free so i'll take a look.

 

[deriks]

It doesn't have. The only problem with the game is that it is just ok

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Tnc is massively full of progressive bs. I ignored it all, but you'd have to be blind not to see it.

Then goddammit I'm proud to be blind.

It has to be a pretty shitty life to go and look for things to be offended by and I am glad I let things be what they are.

 

[MDSLKTR]

This is the game with the pregnant topless chick going Rambo in one scene, right?

Yes and i think i cringed more at this than at any loli jrpg